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Hey G61, What's With Folsom's 2015 Schedule?

mtnjohn

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Aug 19, 2007
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G61:

I thought Folsom was moving up to be one of the best teams in the country. At least you thought last year they would beat DLS. Why haven't they scheduled any out of state games? The school certainly lives in a wealthy enough area to afford to travel.

Please explain.
 
Looks like it is back to a regional schedule. SFL no doubt is a tough league and CVC should be decent, but not a schedule to become a top nationally ranked team. Looks like expectations are scaled back a little, but still can win a bowl bid and end up ranked high in the state. They should still be a formidable team, but not at DLS level. Maybe last season it would have been a good game (DLS Folsom or at least better than the prior two). Wondering how competitive SFL will be-it seems it will be very competitive thus upcoming season.
 
Looks like last year Folsom loaded up and thought it would be their year. I still think DLS would have beaten them by 3-4 td's. No way Tagaloa or Asiasi would have been kept out of the backfield vs Browning.
 
Folsom didn't have the D1 skill players you need to beat DLS or even compete with them for that matter last year. You need players that Centennial Corona had at the skill positions. Anyway, my Newman squad (D3) is playing a tougher pre season. (Marin Catholic, Clayton Valley Charter, and St Mary's of Stockton). Folsom league though is no joke. They are going to be very good again.
 
Folsom didn't have the D1 skill players you need to beat DLS or even compete with them for that matter last year. You need players that Centennial Corona had at the skill positions. Anyway, my Newman squad (D3) is playing a tougher pre season. (Marin Catholic, Clayton Valley Charter, and St Mary's of Stockton). Folsom league though is no joke. They are going to be very good again.

Larry that MC game is their annual scrimmage,
CN has Del Norte first game of the year......MC preseason is Consumes Oaks, Menlo-Atherton and SI pretty solid schedule
 
DN should not be on Newman's schedule? Kinda surprised by that. Has to be a home game for CN. I can't see them driving all the way up to Pelican Bay for that one, although it probably will be a raping.
 
That is right about Marin Catholic. Thanks guys. Would make no sense for them to play before the playoffs. DN??? That is an odd one. Looks like its a home game for DN. I mean get ready for the worse bus ride ever. They always have a good little program but its a big step down from NBL.
 
LL,

Actually one if the biggest complaints in the RE is a lack of a scheduled CN \ MC game. Everyone uses the rationale they will meet up in the playoffs, but in reality that doesn't happen enough. It did happen in 13' (Goff and Scooby until he got hurt was a fun game) but before that it was 99' when they last played.

Monihan used to like scheduling MC. And it's pretty competitive rivalry, CN leads all time 11-9-1 (with only 2 of those being playoff games).
 
No way Tagaloa or Asiasi would have been kept out of the backfield vs Browning.

Care to back up this statement with some type of sound reasoning or logic?

I'll offer this as a counterpoint.

Unlike the previous 2 years, Folsom had an o-line with tremendous size and athleticism led by 3 D1 players -- one of which is currently a 5-star recruit. I think they'd have fared just fine.
 
Folsom didn't have the D1 skill players you need to beat DLS or even compete with them for that matter last year. You need players that Centennial Corona had at the skill positions.

To score 30 or 40 points on them, sure. But you're overlooking several important factors.

Folsom's defense was a lot better than Centennial's and a lot better than the defenses the Bulldogs fielded the previous 2 years. Furthermore, their offensive and defensive lines were bigger, more athletic and flat out better. They also had more depth across the board. Lastly, they actually added a complimentary run game to keep defenses honest. All of those factors combined certainly put them in a position to compete with DLS even though they didn't have the elite skill players on offense.

Had they played, I think the outcome would have been similar to the DLS-Bellarmine match up in 2011 -- a 26-23 type score.
 
I love Folsom and think that was the best team in SJS history. They could have the best lineman we've seen in a long time. I'm been saying that about Williams for the last 2 years.

Centennial had several extremely gifted skilled guys that DLS had a tough time handling for over half that game. Their QB isn't in the same league as browning but at 6"5 with legit 4.5 40 speed he was a big thorn for the green machine. Sac State got a steal. QB that can run have against DLS have caused problems. The wideout from centennial will be playing on Sunday. Folsom hasn't had those gifted skilled players since that team that spanked Serra -Gardena. I'm talking about speed guys at DB, WR, and RB.

Who knows anyhow. In the end DLS makes adjustments and pulls away from just about everybody.
 
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RE- They should bring that game back. I agree. MC vs Newman is a treat. The late Big "ED" was a great guy. Not the best X and O's but didn't shy away from many and those were the days Newman was in 3A against DLS, Pitt, MV, etc. That last game with GOFF and Scooby Wright was a treat. Newman might have won if Wright didn't get hurt. Be great if both kids went on to play on Sundays which is looking likely. Both exemplify what hard work is all about.
 
seriously?

Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I'd favor DLS and they'd be the team I'd bet on if it was cool to bet on high school games. However, I think they'd have found it a lot more difficult to score on Folsom than in the previous 2 games and certainly harder than it was to score on Centennial. I don't think they put up 30+ on that Folsom defense. The Bulldogs front 7 was really good this year and the Spartans didn't throw it well enough to kill them through the air. I think a score in the 20's seems about right.

Could Folsom have scored in the 20's on the Green Machine? I don't think it's a big stretch to think so considering that CC scored 42. The Spartans D is really good, but they weren't as good as the defenses they had the previous 2 seasons and Folsom's offense was even better than it was then. They also had the horses up front to protect Browning much, much better. All factors add up to a much closer game to me. This Folsom team was at least as good as that Bellarmine team that would have beaten the Spartans had they been able to kick an XP -- if not better. I don't see what's so unreasonable.

That said, I still take the Spartans to win.
 
Who knows anyhow. In the end DLS makes adjustments and pulls away from just about everybody.

I agree, that's why I'd still take them to win. I just firmly believe that the key to competing with DLS is matching their physicality up front. You can have all the 4.4 skill players you want, if you can't do that -- it doesn't matter. Folsom was much better equipped to compete on that front. Despite the lack of elite skill talent, Browning was still amazingly dangerous if given time to throw and he would have had more time than in previous games. And don't forget that while their WR's weren't speed guys, they had several big, tall WR's that were still difficult to defend.
 
that all sounds nice but I did not see any improvement in the biggest deficit that Folsom had vs DLS: physical play.
DLS owned Folsom physically. About 50% of both programs rosters played in last years game. You are making a BIG leap of faith that Folsom's physical play improved dramatically in one year. I ain't buying it.

DLS by 3-4 TD's. Easy.
 
that all sounds nice but I did not see any improvement in the biggest deficit that Folsom had vs DLS: physical play..

You and I typically agree on a lot of things, but to make the above statement -- I gotta believe you didn't see Folsom play all that much last season. Either that or your eyes are beginning to fail you.

I'm far from a Folsom supporter and have been highly critical of them when warranted, but physicality is definitely one area they were much improved this past season. I really don't know how you didn't see it. Look no further than Cathedral, Oceanside and Grant Union, none of which are used to getting beaten so decisively on the lines. And their defense punched opponents in the mouth all season long.

I think it may have been Mark Tennis that stated he believed Folsom's defense was among the best he saw in CA this season. That doesn't make it so, but it does lend support that others who deeply follow the HS game noticed the same thing. I could be wrong about it being Tennis, but it was one of the highly visible HS reporters. I personally believe a lot outsiders are falsely lumping in Folsom's previous 2 teams with the 2014 team when making assumptions. On the whole, the 2014 team was nothing like the previous 2 other than the fact that Browning was still putting up video game numbers.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this, especially since the match up never played out.
 
You and I typically agree on a lot of things, but to make the above statement -- I gotta believe you didn't see Folsom play all that much last season. Either that or your eyes are beginning to fail you.

I'm far from a Folsom supporter and have been highly critical of them when warranted, but physicality is definitely one area they were much improved this past season. I really don't know how you didn't see it. Look no further than Cathedral, Oceanside and Grant Union, none of which are used to getting beaten so decisively on the lines. And their defense punched opponents in the mouth all season long.

I think it may have been Mark Tennis that stated he believed Folsom's defense was among the best he saw in CA this season. That doesn't make it so, but it does lend support that others who deeply follow the HS game noticed the same thing. I could be wrong about it being Tennis, but it was one of the highly visible HS reporters. I personally believe a lot outsiders are falsely lumping in Folsom's previous 2 teams with the 2014 team when making assumptions. On the whole, the 2014 team was nothing like the previous 2 other than the fact that Browning was still putting up video game numbers.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this, especially since the match up never played out.

I saw lots of Folsom in 2014.

The biggest head scratcher is you almost completely ignoring the two beat downs Folsom received by DLS. I mean they were not competitive for even one quarter let alone an entire game. Your memory is silly. You can't overcome the physical disadvantage Folsom had vs DLS in one year especially when you consider there were lots of the same Bbulldogs playing in the game one year earlier.

We have not even addressed the speed difference between the two teams. Yet another Folsom disadvantage that actually would have been worse in 2014.

Last, using Cath Catholic ( cathedral catholic???) as proof of Folsom's physical play is at best a stretch. Oceanside typically wins with athleticism not physical play and Grant is nowhere near the glory years.

Would love to see the Tennis comments that Folsom would have been within 3 points of DLS. 3 points? That is a toss up prediction. I believe I read Joe D (a not so shy anti-DLS guy) posting Folsom would have been defeated soundly last year too.

I could understand a stance that the 2014 match up would have been more competitive than the previous two. But to almost completely ignore two gigantic beat downs is too radical of a prediction.

I don't even believe the Folsom coaches, if they were completely truthful, would agree with you. they sure don't look to be in any hurry to play DLS.
 
Problem is that Folsom played NOBODY in 2014, so you cannot truly evaluate their OL. Tagaloa and Asiasi would have been a real step up from anyone Folsom saw on the D Line in 2014. Plus something few Folsom backers discuss; Browning is slow and would not have escaped the DLS DL.
 
I saw lots of Folsom in 2014.


The biggest head scratcher is you almost completely ignoring the two beat downs Folsom received by DLS. I mean they were not competitive for even one quarter let alone an entire game. Your memory is silly. You can't overcome the physical disadvantage Folsom had vs. DLS in one year especially when you consider there were lots of the same Bbulldogs playing in the game one year earlier..



Paul - I'm ignoring the previous 2 games because they are completely meaningless. Different teams, different seasons. If what happened the prior season or 2 seasons previous mattered and was an absolute indicator of future results then why do they bother to play the games? I mean, should we just assume that DLS would have lost to St. John Bosco again because they lost to them the prior year? That's just naive.


The proof is flat out in front of your face, you're just choosing not to see it for whatever reason.


There's undeniable proof -- in numbers -- that Folsom's 2014 team was vastly different (and better) than the previous 2 years.


In 2012 and 2013, they surrendered 322 points in 15 games for an average of 21.5 per game.


In 2014, despite playing 1 more game (16) they surrendered nearly half the amount of points they did previously (166) for an average of 10.4 per game. They accomplished that while playing in a better league top to bottom and slightly beefing up their preseason schedule.


Regarding your naive statement about not being able to overcome a disadvantage in one season, the above pretty much dispels it. Their defense was vastly superior in just one season - despite playing better competition. A lot of the improvement was directly due to an increase in physicality and fundamental play.


First, several key players on the team stated that the experience of facing DLS showed them how much stronger and more well-conditioned they needed to be. They focused on it the past couple off-seasons


Secondly, I seem to recall the Spartans losing a 5 star recruit along their lines while the Bulldogs added one (Jonah Williams) since the last time they played. That's a fairly big swing in Folsom's favor, don't ya think? Yeah, yeah -- I know DLS's parts are interchangeable and the loss of McKenzie didn't hurt them like it would other programs, but it's still a significant change.


Like I said: Different seasons, different teams. I didn't even mention the offense, which improved too.


They had 2 bookend tackles with size and athleticism. That wasn't the case when Austin Hooper destroyed their smallish underclassman left tackle in 2012. They flat out were able to protect Jake Browning much better than in the beat down years you keep dredging up. Not only that, they ran the ball more consistently and effectively. They averaged 57.2 PPG in 2014, 50.1 in 2013 and 44.7 in 2012.


If you really saw Folsom as much as you claim to, you should know all this.


You've established that you aren't open minded to the idea that they were a drastically different team this past Fall, so I'm sure you're not about to soften your stance at all. But how can you argue with numbers? It's clear that they were a lot better on the defensive side of the ball. You may not believe it had anything to do with drastically closing the physicality gap but it does prove that there can be a drastic change from year to year and team to team.

One final quantifiable difference between the 2014 team and the previous two is the fact that they graduated 7 starters bound for D1 FBS programs - 3 of them played on the lines. That, of course isn't counting their 5 star recruit who is returning for 2015. So you are in essence trying to convince yourself that a team with 4 D1 FBS lineman couldn't at least compete at the same physical level as DLS and that there's no difference between seasons when that wasn't the case.
 
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Paul - I'm ignoring the previous 2 games because they are completely meaningless. Different teams, different seasons. If what happened the prior season or 2 seasons previous mattered and was an absolute indicator of future results then why do they bother to play the games? I mean, should we just assume that DLS would have lost to St. John Bosco again because they lost to them the prior year? That's just naive.


The proof is flat out in front of your face, you're just choosing not to see it for whatever reason.


There's undeniable proof -- in numbers -- that Folsom's 2014 team was vastly different (and better) than the previous 2 years.


In 2012 and 2013, they surrendered 322 points in 15 games for an average of 21.5 per game.


In 2014, despite playing 1 more game (16) they surrendered nearly half the amount of points they did previously (166) for an average of 10.4 per game. They accomplished that while playing in a better league top to bottom and slightly beefing up their preseason schedule.


Regarding your naive statement about not being able to overcome a disadvantage in one season, the above pretty much dispels it. Their defense was vastly superior in just one season - despite playing better competition. A lot of the improvement was directly due to an increase in physicality and fundamental play.


First, several key players on the team stated that the experience of facing DLS showed them how much stronger and more well-conditioned they needed to be. They focused on it the past couple off-seasons


Secondly, I seem to recall the Spartans losing a 5 star recruit along their lines while the Bulldogs added one (Jonah Williams) since the last time they played. That's a fairly big swing in Folsom's favor, don't ya think? Yeah, yeah -- I know DLS's parts are interchangeable and the loss of McKenzie didn't hurt them like it would other programs, but it's still a significant change.


Like I said: Different seasons, different teams. I didn't even mention the offense, which improved too.


They had 2 bookend tackles with size and athleticism. That wasn't the case when Austin Hooper destroyed their smallish underclassman left tackle in 2012. They flat out were able to protect Jake Browning much better than in the beat down years you keep dredging up. Not only that, they ran the ball more consistently and effectively. They averaged 57.2 PPG in 2014, 50.1 in 2013 and 44.7 in 2012.


If you really saw Folsom as much as you claim to, you should know all this.


You've established that you aren't open minded to the idea that they were a drastically different team this past Fall, so I'm sure you're not about to soften your stance at all. But how can you argue with numbers? It's clear that they were a lot better on the defensive side of the ball. You may not believe it had anything to do with drastically closing the physicality gap but it does prove that there can be a drastic change from year to year and team to team.

One final quantifiable difference between the 2014 team and the previous two is the fact that they graduated 7 starters bound for D1 FBS programs - 3 of them played on the lines. That, of course isn't counting their 5 star recruit who is returning for 2015. So you are in essence trying to convince yourself that a team with 4 D1 FBS lineman couldn't at least compete at the same physical level as DLS and that there's no difference between seasons when that wasn't the case.

Ignoring those two beat downs is akin to denying the Holocaust.

Why would you bring up the SJB game? DLS was on SJB 35 with 3 minutes to go to win the game. Folsom was never in either game. Folsom was never in any quarter. That's not apples and oranges, that's apples and dinosaurs.

2013 Folsom line was loaded w D1 talent too- so what.

The problem with the stats is Folsoms schedule didn't have anyone on the DLS level of physical play. Or skill play. Or coaching. Or conditioning. Or ....

I would give Folsom more credit if they showed a smidgen of improvement vs DLS in game 2. But they didn't. They got spanked the same way. They were pushed all over DVC just like the previous year. The vaunted Folsom offense was shut down too. In spite of the lofty "stats".

There was no indication Folsom was a toss up game with DLS in 2014. The Folsom coaches knew it. Joe Sacco especially knew it.
 
Thunder Ram: you are overrating how much Folsom improved. Look at it realistically and DLS would have still given Folsom a beatdown. One thing not mentioned is that Browning's lack of foot speed would hurt him had they again played DLS.
 
So just where is G61? back to the original thread????? can he come out to play?
 
Larry, MC415, Bella and the rest....

had the opportunity to watch CN in spring practice....they are looking good. Off line is big and athletic....BROOKSHIRE looks great.....he worked with some QB guru in the east bay in the offseason and corrected his throwing motion flaws...his ball was tight and on target....... 1 negative...D Line may be a little thin.....BROOKSHIRE playing both ways...safety on defense..... my guess...it was done specifically for the rancho game and their stud WR.

The freshman class coming in is LOADED with athletes....a couple of them BIG time athletes....that makes 3 straight good yrs of kids for CN....

one other note* I think CN is going to play D4 this year...
 
Ignoring those two beat downs is akin to denying the Holocaust.

In 2010, Bellarmine lost to Palo Alto in the 2nd round of the CCS playoffs 35-0. In 2011, Bellarmine took De La Salle to double-overtime and ended up playing for the state D-I title. Stating a team can't drastically improve over one offseason is clearly false.
 
In 2010, Bellarmine lost to Palo Alto in the 2nd round of the CCS playoffs 35-0. In 2011, Bellarmine took De La Salle to double-overtime and ended up playing for the state D-I title. Stating a team can't drastically improve over one offseason is clearly false.

Odd post unless you agree with the logic to completely ignore the results/play of the two DLS v Folsom games when giving a prediction on the 2014 match up.

That was the statement I disagreed with. I never stated teams cant improve.
 
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