a message to the CIF, NCS/GIL LEMON, NORCAL

[northbaybbguru]

Our community burns down.
Families lose their homes, players lose their homes.
We play 20 straight road games after our school burns down.
We scramble for 2 mos for gym space to practice. Practicing at Jr highs, elementary schools and basically wherever we could find gym space. We STILL have no heat in our gym.
The team lost a close friend/family member to cancer mid season.
And the kids and coaches NEVER complained....the schools character and community was amazing.

And we get thrown into the OPEN to play the best program in the state and #5 team in the country.

Screw the CIF...Screw the NCS and Gil lemon....YOU have no clue WHAT OUR KIDS AND COACHING STAFF ARE ABOUT. YOU have no idea about our character and will.
You think you are going to break us by rigging the seeding? You don't think we don't know what's going on over there at the NCS headquarters? And WHO IS INFLUENCING YOU? Something that would never enter our mind to ever do... Its a joke and the whole NORCAL knows it.

We may lose on Friday but WE WILL NEVER BACK DOWN FROM YOUR BS.

FULL CONGRATS AND PROPS TO BOD for winning, and having the courage to win their game knowing it would mean the OPEN and a probable meeting against the #1 team in the country.
FULL PROPS TO SALESIAN AND CARONDELET ALSO..THEY NEVER BACK DOWN EITHER.

Our character also is to NEVER BACK DOWN FROM A CHALLENGE!!!

Even when its a fixed game...

BRING IT !!!

#DBAP
#dontbeinlevel2

 

[northbaybbguru]

and I'm done for the season on NCP

GURU out!!

 

[missing.link]

and I'm done for the season on NCP

GURU out!!

tell us how you really feel Guru

 

[colhenrylives]

If there's one NorCal Open team that should gripe it's Folsom. It's the only public school stuck in a division with seven private/parochials. It would be like placing, say, Palo Alto in the West Catholic Athletic League. Folsom, as a public school, has entirely different enrollment rules. It can't bring in players from all over the map. The seeding committee should have made the Open an all-private/parochial division, thus isolating those schools away from the publics who don't have special enrollment advantages. CCS officials did that this year when they allocated eight private/parochials into the Open there. At least the CCS Open was a fair fight. When it comes to Folsom, the NorCal Open is not.

 

[Azanna]

If there's one NorCal Open team that should gripe it's Folsom. It's the only public school stuck in a division with seven private/parochials. It would be like placing, say, Palo Alto in the West Catholic Athletic League. Folsom, as a public school, has entirely different enrollment rules. It can't bring in players from all over the map. The seeding committee should have made the Open an all-private/parochial division, thus isolating those schools away from the publics who don't have special enrollment advantages. CCS officials did that this year when they allocated eight private/parochials into the Open there. At least the CCS Open was a fair fight. When it comes to Folsom, the NorCal Open is not.

Even though (ALL KNOW) that the balance between Public School vs. Private school is completely unbalanced. The powers that are will never do anything about it. Private schools can recruit from anyplace in the country and public school can only within the rules seek out kids in there district and please don't tell me Private schools do not give out scholarships because all in the know know that's a bunch of BS. Folsom should have the opportunity to win a state title in D1 because next yr. they will again be, just a good public school program but Mitti, SM, BO and Salesian will still be a power with their new wave of scholarship recruits.

 

[alwayslearning]

If there's one NorCal Open team that should gripe it's Folsom. It's the only public school stuck in a division with seven private/parochials. It would be like placing, say, Palo Alto in the West Catholic Athletic League. Folsom, as a public school, has entirely different enrollment rules. It can't bring in players from all over the map. The seeding committee should have made the Open an all-private/parochial division, thus isolating those schools away from the publics who don't have special enrollment advantages. CCS officials did that this year when they allocated eight private/parochials into the Open there. At least the CCS Open was a fair fight. When it comes to Folsom, the NorCal Open is not.

Pretty sure Folsom got a 6'6 High major transfer this year going to UCLA?
I'm not disagreeing that the (some not all) private vs public is not a fair fight. But Folsom had a GREAT season and has 2 high major kids and a really good young PG. They should be in the open this year. It should be a 6 team open.
Mitty, Pinewood, SMS, Folsom, Salesian, Carondelet


Oh and NBGuru, congrats to CN and those kids and community! Keep fighting!
Credit where credit is due!

 

[OnBall8]

Pretty sure Folsom got a 6'6 High major transfer this year going to UCLA?
I'm not disagreeing that the (some not all) private vs public is not a fair fight. But Folsom had a GREAT season and has 2 high major kids and a really good young PG. They should be in the open this year. It should be a 6 team open.
Mitty, Pinewood, SMS, Folsom, Salesian, Carondelet

Yea, we sometimes forget that the CIF clearly states that they do not HAVE to have 8 teams for the open... thats just the max. But do we really feel like they will skip out on 2 games worth of $$ from the open to do what is right??

 

[basketba11]

Yea, we sometimes forget that the CIF clearly states that they do not HAVE to have 8 teams for the open... thats just the max. But do we really feel like they will skip out on 2 games worth of $$ from the open to do what is right??

You both are absolutely right always learning and OnBall. All year long, it has been clear cut that these 6 teams are definitely Open bound. The discussion for the last 2 picks have been constantly changing in who should be selected. If MM and CN both won, would have made it easy for selection committee in my opinion. BOD winning still wasn't clear cut and I don't think they are Open team with 10 losses. Impossible to make everyone happy I guess. Other options were SJND and West Campus, I guess they both benefited from weak leagues and being D4 champions? Not sure how West Campus defending State Champion dropped all the way to 5 seed in D3. That is absolutely laughable when many people were saying this is possible Open team.

 

[HoopGuy03]

Pretty sure Folsom got a 6'6 High major transfer this year going to UCLA?
I'm not disagreeing that the (some not all) private vs public is not a fair fight. But Folsom had a GREAT season and has 2 high major kids and a really good young PG. They should be in the open this year. It should be a 6 team open.
Mitty, Pinewood, SMS, Folsom, Salesian, Carondelet


Oh and NBGuru, congrats to CN and those kids and community! Keep fighting!
Credit where credit is due!

All props to CN school and the community.

As far as the 6 teams in open im pretty sure noone would of complained if you took out CN and BOD and inserted West Campus and SJND.

 

[ClayK]

Of course Cardinal Newman got hosed -- it's just a joke. But here's the worst part: In the administrative reality of CIF (as opposed to real reality), the committee did Cardinal Newman a favor by putting them in the Open. It's an honor, they say, and it's true up to a point, but the honor is far outweighed by the "reward" of playing the No. 5 team in the country on the road.

It's just sad, really, that CIF doesn't have the courage to admit that the teams that get put in the bottom half of the Open, especially on the girls' side, are sacrificial lambs and as such, deserve at least a banner on the wall that says they were in the Open. But Roger Blake is adamant that no such thing should ever happen, and that teams should be thrilled to be selected to the Open even if they lose, and they should not be jealous of teams they beat by 30 that win state titles.

 

[OnBall8]

Of course Cardinal Newman got hosed -- it's just a joke. But here's the worst part: In the administrative reality of CIF (as opposed to real reality), the committee did Cardinal Newman a favor by putting them in the Open. It's an honor, they say, and it's true up to a point, but the honor is far outweighed by the "reward" of playing the No. 5 team in the country on the road.

It's just sad, really, that CIF doesn't have the courage to admit that the teams that get put in the bottom half of the Open, especially on the girls' side, are sacrificial lambs and as such, deserve at least a banner on the wall that says they were in the Open. But Roger Blake is adamant that no such thing should ever happen, and that teams should be thrilled to be selected to the Open even if they lose, and they should not be jealous of teams they beat by 30 that win state titles.

I don't know who Roger Blake is or why he has anything to do with banners on a school's wall. A school can order whatever banner they want can't they? If you are SMS or Mitty or PW, who expects and wants to be in open every year, maybe don't hang a banner. But if you are one of these "sacrificial lambs" that happens to get bumped up a year or 2, why not recognize yourself with something hanging in the gym?

 

[observer22]

I don't know who Roger Blake is or why he has anything to do with banners on a school's wall. A school can order whatever banner they want can't they? If you are SMS or Mitty or PW, who expects and wants to be in open every year, maybe don't hang a banner. But if you are one of these "sacrificial lambs" that happens to get bumped up a year or 2, why not recognize yourself with something hanging in the gym?

The University of Central Florida held a championship parade for their football team this year on their own, since the NCAA didn't recognize them. No reason why a high school can't hang their own banner.

 

[WOW Freddy]

I don't want to hear some private school whining about playing in the open division and feeling that they got hosed. The only schools that got hosed are the three public school teams from the CCS who were not able to play in Nor Cals because CCS has some ridiculous rules. I wish the open had 16 privates in it and the rest of the divisions were all publics. This way everyone would be playing by the same rules. Folsom got hosed if anyone got hosed. They are playing in a division where there rules are different than the rest. The hell with all of this whining from a private school

 

[missing.link]

Folsom has 3500 kids. 6'6 kid transfers in, McDonald's all American,2 other nice players and a freshman that will be all state. Your football program is top notch in the state, landing transfers at a rapid pace too. I believe Cn is Sonoma County not in the bay area and has an enrollment of 500. Not exactly the hot bed of boys or girls hoops. I believe other teams in the Ncs should of gone ahead of Cn.. Folsom at least your football program isn't scared but the girls program has some oak ridge in them..

 

[Azanna]

I don't want to hear some private school whining about playing in the open division and feeling that they got hosed. The only schools that got hosed are the three public school teams from the CCS who were not able to play in Nor Cals because CCS has some ridiculous rules. I wish the open had 16 privates in it and the rest of the divisions were all publics. This way everyone would be playing by the same rules. Folsom got hosed if anyone got hosed. They are playing in a division where there rules are different than the rest. The hell with all of this whining from a private school

I agree 100% as far as public school division and a private school division

 

[mistisoman]

If there's one NorCal Open team that should gripe it's Folsom. It's the only public school stuck in a division with seven private/parochials. It would be like placing, say, Palo Alto in the West Catholic Athletic League. Folsom, as a public school, has entirely different enrollment rules. It can't bring in players from all over the map. The seeding committee should have made the Open an all-private/parochial division, thus isolating those schools away from the publics who don't have special enrollment advantages. CCS officials did that this year when they allocated eight private/parochials into the Open there. At least the CCS Open was a fair fight. When it comes to Folsom, the NorCal Open is not.

Your right on the button, and they have taken a potential D-1 state champ in doing so, I clearly believe they would've been the favorite to get to that state final..

 

[OnBall8]

Your right on the button, and they have taken a potential D-1 state champ in doing so, I clearly believe they would've been the favorite to get to that state final..

Then lets go back to enrollment divisions.. oh wait you complained when a private power was stuck in your division... you can't have it both ways, and get over the private/public split.. its not going to happen

 

[ClayK]

So Sacramento and Clayton Valley Charter are, by definition, public schools.

Sacramento is a magnet school, so any student in the district can attend Sacramento -- and it's amazing how many are athletically gifted.

Clayton Valley, as a charter school, does not have the same attendance boundaries as other public schools, nor do charter schools in Oakland and elsewhere.

So do those schools go into the private school division?

And how many divisions do you have for private schools? Obviously, Convent of the Sacred Heart is not at the same level as Pinewood and St. Ignatius, but it is also much smaller than Marin Catholic or Moreau Catholic.

Pinewood, though, has only 300 students, so it would be in the smallest division, while St. Francis of Sacramento and Mitty would be in the largest. O'Dowd would be probably be in a middle division.

The end result, presumably, would be a return to enrollment-based divisions, except now there would be 10 or 12 instead of six, which I don't think makes sense.

What is really being advocated is taking the top private schools and putting them in one division -- which of course is what competitive equity is supposed to do, while also including teams with a McDonald's All-American at the wing, and a 6-6 center going to UCLA.

 

[mistisoman]

Then lets go back to enrollment divisions.. oh wait you complained when a private power was stuck in your division... you can't have it both ways, and get over the private/public split.. its not going to happen

Enrollment & student body size doesn't matter when the private schools only need a SELECT FEW to put together ELITE basketball teams, we all kno if the private schools had to field a team with kids that that are not brought in to play ball, than yes we could go back to LOWER DIVISION's for size enrollment, because we pretty much know privates would not be as successful!! I'll probably catch some "heat" for my statement but I don't think I'm that far off with it either!!

 

[RespectBBGame]

I have been saying this for years about the whole CIF think. Maybe people final understand what Brookside Christian been Going through for years. They dislike coaches like COACH k and Pico because the fit in there box. They don't like Tom either but can't though them under the bus because they are to good of a team but sometimes lose to fixed refs.

CIF COMMITTEE DON'T CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS OR FAMILIES.

Someone needs to start an AAU WINTER high school. For 2 reasons.

1) CIF COMMITTEE CAN KICK ROCKS
2) KIDS WOULD GET BETTER COACH beside a teacher looking for a check.

 

[mistisoman]

So Sacramento and Clayton Valley Charter are, by definition, public schools.

Sacramento is a magnet school, so any student in the district can attend Sacramento -- and it's amazing how many are athletically gifted.

Clayton Valley, as a charter school, does not have the same attendance boundaries as other public schools, nor do charter schools in Oakland and elsewhere.

So do those schools go into the private school division?

And how many divisions do you have for private schools? Obviously, Convent of the Sacred Heart is not at the same level as Pinewood and St. Ignatius, but it is also much smaller than Marin Catholic or Moreau Catholic.

Pinewood, though, has only 300 students, so it would be in the smallest division, while St. Francis of Sacramento and Mitty would be in the largest. O'Dowd would be probably be in a middle division.

The end result, presumably, would be a return to enrollment-based divisions, except now there would be 10 or 12 instead of six, which I don't think makes sense.

What is really being advocated is taking the top private schools and putting them in one division -- which of course is what competitive equity is supposed to do, while also including teams with a McDonald's All-American at the wing, and a 6-6 center going to UCLA.

Clayton Valley doesn't get kids from transferring in for athletic purposes? I think this program or CHARTER SCHOOL is in place to compete at high levels, I totally feel this school is especially catered to be VERY COMPETITIVE in it's sports program, and I'm pretty sure this Charter school is still pretty new, so yes to me this CHARTER SCHOOL has that private school feeling to some of us..

 

[mistisoman]

You both are absolutely right always learning and OnBall. All year long, it has been clear cut that these 6 teams are definitely Open bound. The discussion for the last 2 picks have been constantly changing in who should be selected. If MM and CN both won, would have made it easy for selection committee in my opinion. BOD winning still wasn't clear cut and I don't think they are Open team with 10 losses. Impossible to make everyone happy I guess. Other options were SJND and West Campus, I guess they both benefited from weak leagues and being D4 champions? Not sure how West Campus defending State Champion dropped all the way to 5 seed in D3. That is absolutely laughable when many people were saying this is possible Open team.

That seeding was a joke?? I thought Lathrop was a better seed than #4, and they kind of ROLLED through the bracket b4 running into one of Ca's elites in my opinion in West Campus, and got handled!! I do think this W. Campus team is hitting on all cylinders & peaking at the right time, I can see back 2 back titles for this program..

 

[thekingera]

Hats off to my Folsom Bulldogs for being the ONLY public to make it into the open. Big honor.
Pretty cool to have girls and boys programs in the open. Says a lot about the athletic programs.
Good luck to everyone!

 

[thekingera]

Folsom has 3500 kids.

False. About 2,200 depending on the year.

Big school by any means nonetheless. And still impressive to be the lone public in the open. I hope they can make some noise. They are so fun to watch and well coached. The school has become a darn good in most sport. Boys soccer also just won a section title.

 

[colhenrylives]

WOW Freddy has posed a wise partial solution to the imbalance issue on the girls' side: Make the Open an all-private/parochial 16-school bracket.

 

[WOW Freddy]

Thanks Colhenry. I have been in this rodeo a few times. It has never been apples and apples. You can split it, just give the privates two divisions, an open and a regular private school division - 16 in each!! YOWL

 

[Azanna]

Hats off to my Folsom Bulldogs for being the ONLY public to make it into the open. Big honor.
Pretty cool to have girls and boys programs in the open. Says a lot about the athletic programs.
Good luck to everyone!

If you asked the Folsom coach does it feel like a Big honor to be in the open and if he’s honest he would tell you Hell No. you guys sit around with your key board and you think you get it. Trust me when I tell you the team that won the D1 state title was just as happy as the open champ and the school and student body celebrated just as hard. There was an article in the Sac Bee and the Folsom boys coach was complaining about getting put in the open and I understand why.

 

[colhenrylives]

Thanks Colhenry. I have been in this rodeo a few times. It has never been apples and apples. You can split it, just give the privates two divisions, an open and a regular private school division - 16 in each!! YOWL

Yowl indeed. We may have met down the line at one point. Somehow, your point of view resonates.

 

[thekingera]

If you asked the Folsom coach does it feel like a Big honor to be in the open and if he’s honest he would tell you Hell No. you guys sit around with your key board and you think you get it. Trust me when I tell you the team that won the D1 state title was just as happy as the open champ and the school and student body celebrated just as hard. There was an article in the Sac Bee and the Folsom boys coach was complaining about getting put in the open and I understand why.

I think it's an honor and we have a chance to make some noise!

 

[mkbgdns]

if he’s honest he would tell you Hell No.

either you're a mindreader, or you're saddling him with your POV as "honesty".
look, your team is in the Open whether you bitch about it or not. the best attitude is to look at it in a positive way, and communicate that to your kids. I think you have a choice about your attitude, and you've chosen "Hell No", he hasn't. adapting your thinking to circumstance is not dishonesty.

am I glad MM is in DI? yep. if they had beaten BOD and were in, would I consider it an honor that they were selected? yep. they didn't win the Norcal Open until they were selected for the fourth time. baby steps.

 

[Azanna]

if he’s honest he would tell you Hell No.

either you're a mindreader, or you're saddling him with your POV as "honesty".
look, your team is in the Open whether you bitch about it or not. the best attitude is to look at it in a positive way, and communicate that to your kids. I think you have a choice about your attitude, and you've chosen "Hell No", he hasn't. adapting your thinking to circumstance is not dishonesty.

am I glad MM is in DI? yep. if they had beaten BOD and were in, would I consider it an honor that they were selected? yep. they didn't win the Norcal Open until they were selected for the fourth time. baby steps.

I’m a Mind reader

 

[larry legend33]

Folsom has 3500 kids. 6'6 kid transfers in, McDonald's all American,2 other nice players and a freshman that will be all state. Your football program is top notch in the state, landing transfers at a rapid pace too. I believe Cn is Sonoma County not in the bay area and has an enrollment of 500. Not exactly the hot bed of boys or girls hoops. I believe other teams in the Ncs should of gone ahead of Cn.. Folsom at least your football program isn't scared but the girls program has some oak ridge in them..

The days of public and private are starting to wane. Folsom is loaded. You should be able to win with a mcd all american going to cal and a 6'6 center heading to ucla and a cast of future college players surrounding. The pedigree is hard to match by anybody.

Newman has 2 things going or it. Arguably the best coach in norcal and kids that are winners on and off the court. wishing everybody the best of luck.