C-Let forfeits???
- Thread starter Norcal_Fan
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but it's a honor to be in the open, that's what someone said. If it really is such an honor than you show up with whoever is on the roster but forfeiting is some BS.
Well.... what's done is done and now it's time to look ahead and do the right thing.... All eyes on ol' sand moose Gil Lemmon and thundernuts Roger Gates!
Reseed the open. Cardinal Newman slides up into the 6 spot from 7 to play Pinewood on Friday night. Bishop O' Dowd moves up from the 8 spot to the 7 to play at SMS. Mitty as the #1 seed takes the first round bye. I think that makes the most sense, does it not?
Reseed the open. Cardinal Newman slides up into the 6 spot from 7 to play Pinewood on Friday night. Bishop O' Dowd moves up from the 8 spot to the 7 to play at SMS. Mitty as the #1 seed takes the first round bye. I think that makes the most sense, does it not?
Once again adults failing children what's new? Making rash decisions without thinking it all the way through. I hope the 1 or 2 decision makers feel good about themselves. Just to set the record straight many of the kids on the team ( if not all ) are victims of this harsh decision. They have worked hard playing basketball 6 days per week for years to have 1 or 2 adults decide to flush the dedication and hard work down the drain. The team wants to play and should still be allowed to IMO.
paytc has a daughter on the team. I think privacy should be respected--this ain't TMZ. or is it? I do think paytc is ripping others while hiding the ball, which is a cheap shot. if you won't say why the kids are victims, or the penalty harsh, don't name-call or label, just keep quiet. and like I said, respecting privacy is a good reason to be silent.
privacy went out the door when the team F up this bad to have the school forfeit in a huge game. It will come out. I want to know if the crime fits.. Otherwise quit talking about it.
I'm not ripping anyone who doesn't deserve it IMO. And not hiding a ball, whatever that means. I repeat... IMO it was a rash decision, very questionably handled, and too hard a punishment. If there were different people in the power position(s) we may have had a different reaction and a different decision handed down. Unfortunately the 1 or 2 decision makers we did have in this case IMO and many others got it wrong. I'm sure there were folks not on the team at this off campus situation. Did those not on the team get any form of punishment? I Didn't think so. So why punish everyone on the team as well as the whole school for the next two years or so? If what has been rumored may indeed be the what will happen as a result to a forfeit.
Best wishes to those still in it to win it !
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Mitty should without doubt get the bye in the opening round with this development. Very unfortunate for the dedicated players on the C-Let team, especially the Senior class.
Punish the girls who broke the rules. Suspended for the remainder of the season.
The girls who did nothing are allowed to play. (assuming they have enough bodies to field a team)
Completely unfair and overreaction to forfeit the game and end the season.
The girls who did nothing are allowed to play. (assuming they have enough bodies to field a team)
Completely unfair and overreaction to forfeit the game and end the season.
What's done is done, unfortunately this is in the past now. Let's look ahead and make sure the ol' drugstore cowboy Gil Lemmon and his buddy the swampmasher Roger Gates get this one correct!
Mitty should get the bye and Bishop O' Dowd and CN should slide up a spot! That's what makes the most sense! Get it done!
Hard for me to have a strong opinion on the Carondelet situation until the facts and the details come out.
Mitty should get the bye and Bishop O' Dowd and CN should slide up a spot! That's what makes the most sense! Get it done!
Hard for me to have a strong opinion on the Carondelet situation until the facts and the details come out.
Most of us (there may be an exception or two) have no idea what actually happened. Whatever it was was serious enough to warrant an extreme reaction by the school administration. Tough to make a comment without the facts.
Per Mitch Stephens:
“According to sources, the forfeiture was the result of a party held by one member of the team — and attended by all of her teammates — on Saturday, the day after Carondelet won its third consecutive North Coast Section title.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...d-forfeits-NorCal-opener-in-wake-12733649.php
“According to sources, the forfeiture was the result of a party held by one member of the team — and attended by all of her teammates — on Saturday, the day after Carondelet won its third consecutive North Coast Section title.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...d-forfeits-NorCal-opener-in-wake-12733649.php
That’s a tragedy, adults expect kids to be perfect and the sad thing is most of the adults that have these expectations have a lot of skeletons in their own closet
About time someone stood up to The CIF Dictatorship! What will be the next move??? Will some start an AAU WINTER high school league ?? I beat all the best players in would play in it!!! All types of different and all different levels!!! Come playoffs teams would divide in level like AAU!!! This will Attract tons of colleges to watch these kids!!!!!!
Here's a question .. How many times has the d4 section champ not gone to the open? Hmmm...
Once this year St Joe's (cal stars coach with a win vs the D1 ncs section champ.. Odd? Naw.. Here's another question... How many times has the d2 section champ not gone to the open? Twice Dublin upset C-let and last year Miramonte (it was their 4th section championship in a row) . Now don't forget clay crying last year that it wouldn't be right for his team to play mitty. Blame the cif?? No blame their buddy the Ncs commissioner ! Blame The cif and what ever idiots decided competitive equity was a good idea! I do believe the D1 seedings were fixed too .. Can't make it look like we're hooking up cal stars in level 2 we'll give them the 3 and 4 seed... Nobody will see that Miramonte beat the 2 seed 79-51.. Presantation has this great max preps rankings we'll make them the 1 seed. Damn the 1 and 2 seeds in D1 have better power rankings than cn and O'dowd in the open.. Corrupt? Conspiracy theory? Or facts?
And now the mess with C-let . Really heart breaking for everyone involved!
I don’t think the CLet issue has anything to do with the NCS, Clay, St.Farm, Kelly, MM, Cal Stars or the CIF selection committee. Someone at the school decided to make a statement.
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When you forfeit a playoff game you do not just effect the school and the players on the team but the entire bracket they are in. I think these administrators should have recognized that the school had a responsibility to fullfill once the accepted the bid. You just don't forfeit under these sort of circumstances. Sometimes it appears that school administrators and those in education are living in an alternate reality. Despite their own delusions they are often not the sharpest tools in the sched.
This is a go way to protest against the CIF Committee. This committee been messing with coaches for years. How does a team win the section play against a team that lost their section. Same goes for the with Salesain won their section to playing against a team that got Blown out in sections.
Willtalk
Don't you think this was School Decision to Protest their seeding. The coach didn't make this decision but was apart of it. The parents I'm sure had more to do with this then anybody.
Willtalk
Don't you think this was School Decision to Protest their seeding. The coach didn't make this decision but was apart of it. The parents I'm sure had more to do with this then anybody.
Thanks for sharing. There you go.... Drinking or drugs. A social gathering with no wrongdoing doesn't result in a forfeiture of this magnitude. Kids know the team rules very well. Seems harsh and it penalizes everybody except Pinewood who got a freebie.
No reseeding will be done. Teams will stay where they are seeded. Pinewood gets a pass, which doesn't matter because they don't go back round 2 anyways.
Unfortunate events. Go Folsom!
Unfortunate events. Go Folsom!
True. But the saddest thing is most everything children do is learned from adult role models. And very few adults are big enough to admit when they make a mistake. There should have been a different process taken and calmer heads during it. Truthfully not everyone in authority gets it right every time. Though far from angels, too bad kids typically are victims to poor adult leadership. Not sure those in the administration thought it out far enough to realize the consequence and fallout a forfeit would make. Or just how much the team sacrificed to get themselves in position for a state championship run. Some have been working at it 2, 3, and 4 years. You only get four shots at it. There were many other options they could have chosen besides the rush job decision. And not notifying any of the parents first. Instead letting them hear it from either the media or their child 5 minutes before the media ran the story. One which involves smearing children's names and reputation in the media. Whether that child was one of the 1 or 2 who behaved irresponsibly that evening or not. It affects too many that were not involved in the decision of the minority who acted out irresponsibly. The form of discipline used should have stayed in house. Sounds like more than just a team of children need to learn a lesson here. I'm suggesting for coaches to protest the forfeit and let the kids play.
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They said team rules in the statement, but what they really meant was school rules. Private schools are no joke when it comes to parties, drugs, alcohol, etc. I'm not sure if the rest of the story I heard is true or not, but it warrants the punishment. If the entire team was out drinking like the article says, what else would be punishment enough for that?? If it were one or 2 gals then obviously just they would be punished but this was the whole team that collectively made a poor decision. They should not get a pass just because it was the playoffs, people would not be crying foul play by the school if this were a January game
My 2 Cents, ( not that anyone will care).
Im in the middle, on one hand you never want to end a season like this and you dont want to punish the innocent as well as everyone else affected in the bracket. So I don't like that they cancelled their participation in the state open playoffs.
On the other hand, I believe when some of these kids get to college whether it be out of season or in season. Being a party with negative influence im sure they will think back at this time and hopefully make the correct decision and they learn from their mistakes.
End of the day, I think it is unfortunate what happen but the overall correct decision was made.
Life lessons are taught through sports, its bigger than basketball.
Im in the middle, on one hand you never want to end a season like this and you dont want to punish the innocent as well as everyone else affected in the bracket. So I don't like that they cancelled their participation in the state open playoffs.
On the other hand, I believe when some of these kids get to college whether it be out of season or in season. Being a party with negative influence im sure they will think back at this time and hopefully make the correct decision and they learn from their mistakes.
End of the day, I think it is unfortunate what happen but the overall correct decision was made.
Life lessons are taught through sports, its bigger than basketball.
I don't think you ( or anyone outside of the circle) are in the position to say whether it was 1 or 2 girls or the whole team.I'm closer to the situation and I don't know everything that actually happened. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it. Meanwhile I think most can read between the lines and are smart enough to know the level in which each child on the team was involved with acting irresponsibly may have been different, if at all. And when UCLA had an incident where a couple of their players were accused of wrongful conduct I don't recall the Chinese government, UCLA'S administration, the team, or anyone else coming down on every player on the team. Or when our serviceman are accused of rape in another country all serviceman don't get accused and then all punished. And everyone in America or it's government don't get included when a few go wrong. The actual individual and/ or smaller group of people who act out need to be punished not everyone associated with them. Rumor has it even some in the administration feel the situation could have been handled with calmer heads. And it's rumored even some in the administration don't agree with pulling all the children out of the tournament. Things are never as clear cut as it may appear on the outside. That is why things need to be investigated without a rush to judgement. Meanwhile the team should be allowed to play.
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I was not pretending to know more than you, sir. Those examples are very different than the situation at hand though. And maybe I am giving the admin too much credit here, but I felt that if after the investigation was completed, and if it were found that only a few young ladies were drinking, while the rest sat around and watched or left or didn't participate, then things would be handled differently. Again, maybe I am giving them too much benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, I know from attending a private high school, that even being present where there is drinking going on, and not saying something about it, is wrong in their eyes (at least where I went). I don't know how they would punish a non-athlete in that situation, but I would hope that the punishments would not be more or less severe due to them being in the playoffs. Like hookguy said... these are life lessons taught through basketball.. seems unfair now, but even 10 years down the road someone will remind their team of the 2018 Carondelet team and encourage them to make good decisions.
I do believe your right. You are giving the administration the benefit of the doubt. Sure every circumstance is different. But...... As aways we tend to give those with all the power and authority the benefit of the doubt. As I have stated prior, I don't believe everyone should be held accountable for any and everyone else's conduct. With that logic every child at the school in Florida where the nut shot dozens of people should all share in the blame. After all many were classmates. And they all went to the same school. Didn't some even know him ? Weren't even some his friend? I don't recall the UCLA administration coming down on the whole team for the inappropriate conduct of a couple of its players. Probably because they know every child has to be individually accountable. And the laughable thought that all kids should play police or snitch is an unfair responsibility. I agree they all should try to help others and be the best examples themselves. I hear many children were a bit heroic that evening. To make all children accountable for all other children is nonsense and hypocritical. Because all adults aren't responsible for all other adults. That is a bad, lazy, unfair, and outdated rule period.
With that logic...... if a teacher is found to have molested a child or two, their assistant and all other teachers who teach in the classrooms around the one accused should suffer the same punishment. After all they are co- teachers. They should have stop it from happening or told someone.
Then we wonder why the world is so screwed up. SMDH !
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You always take your examples to the extreme man... again very very different. However, you say that the kids shouldn't play police or snitch because of the unfair responsibility... you then go on to state that many were a bit heroic that evening. I am sure (especially if the story I heard is true) that those heriocs came about from either policing one another or snitching in some way. AND those heroics had to come out as a result of bad decisions made.
Not to change the subject too much.... but if I were a gambling man, I'd bet they got caught/busted because of social media posts! Most likely Snapchat or Instagram if I had to guess!
Back when ol' disco thunder Gil Lemmon and his right hand man the midnight rambler Roger Gates were in high school, if you didn't get in trouble with the law, you were pretty much good to go!
Back when ol' disco thunder Gil Lemmon and his right hand man the midnight rambler Roger Gates were in high school, if you didn't get in trouble with the law, you were pretty much good to go!
What is so different? It just shows an example of why no one should be held responsible for any and everyone else's conduct.Those heroic didn't snitch or play police. They assisted a player who needed their help. Not saying all the kids broke any rules or policies..... But rules and policies are not always followed by every child in a group. And some decisions and rules are eventually found to be unfair. Especially when things happen away from school without properly gathering all the facts. The fact that the kids did what they did was a fact not any of their responsibility. The fact is every kid didn't make a bad decision that evening. And every child should not be held responsible for any and every other child's conduct whether they are friends, team mates, school mates, classmates, a relative, or neighbor.
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Donny- I bet you are correct. People can't help themselves in todays' world. Makes a cops life pretty damn easy at times according to a few friends of mine.
I went to private schools and played sports. Coaches repeatedly tell you don't screw it up. Don't go out drinking or getting into trouble. That was ingrained in us. Its pretty clear cut. Not a wise choice by this team and/or individuals. Terrible situation but put yourselves in their shoes. What message does it send to turn your eye?
I went to private schools and played sports. Coaches repeatedly tell you don't screw it up. Don't go out drinking or getting into trouble. That was ingrained in us. Its pretty clear cut. Not a wise choice by this team and/or individuals. Terrible situation but put yourselves in their shoes. What message does it send to turn your eye?
Precisely why you punish the ones found to be involved and let the innocent go. Because next time the innocent should just join in with those doing wrong if their gonna get punished all the same. As if every child has the power to prevent the actions of everyone else. Let's say 2 on the team stayed home. Let me guess.... they're a part of the team. So take everything they worked hard for up to that point and smear their good name in the media regardless right?
Again it is this warp sense of authority over all reasoning that has the world so twisted.
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You make a really good point. How can all the girls be punished unless it was all the girls that participated in what ever occurred. It feels like a rush to punish without clearly thinking out this decision. I dont know the details but I doubt the whole team was involved. LET THEM PLAY and punish who needs to be punished.
But how do you determine who should be punished? If there's no objective evidence, then you ask the players. The one who didn't drink say they didn't; the honest ones who did drink say they did; but the dishonest ones who did drink say they didn't, and get to play.
Or you ask each player to rat out her teammates ... and then run the risk of someone getting payback.
Again, if you could know for sure who was drinking and who wasn't, then you can make distinctions -- lacking that certainty, it gets more complicated.
Or you ask each player to rat out her teammates ... and then run the risk of someone getting payback.
Again, if you could know for sure who was drinking and who wasn't, then you can make distinctions -- lacking that certainty, it gets more complicated.
True. And the reality is some may have been in violation but most likely not all. But when you hold all accountable for any and everyone else's actions you punish innocent people for no reason. That will make a innocent child think shit I should just do what everyone else does since I'll be punished right along with those who do wrong. It's really just an abuse of authority and/ or lazy policing. It's much easier just to throw a bomb in a rat hole than to patiently wait and shoot each one as they come out whether they were in your trash can or not.
My guess is some kids might experiment with a drink or smoke at every school. And perhaps some on every team. Kids do what kids do. And some play a part in it others don't. Can we have them all step forward. And decide none of them should play? Even all who made the right decision? Just because some do and some don't all should suffer together regardless? With that logic how many teams in Norcal or the country for that matter would have a team able to play in the post season?
And we wonder why the world is so screwed up.
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