GATORS ARE TOLD NO THANK YOU
- Thread starter Where Are They Now
- Start date
Bullshit.
The system is broken.
Those boys attend a 600 student school.
They are the best in The PAL and CCS, WCAL included and they're told no because they went up to the open, challenged themselves?! Bullshit. They got screwed big time. This is how and why teams will start fixing games.
Had Lavorato thrown the game vs. Burlingame they'd be playing in the D-III game next week.
What a joke.
Congrats Gators, you showed everyone we do play some good ball in The PAL.
The system is broken.
Those boys attend a 600 student school.
They are the best in The PAL and CCS, WCAL included and they're told no because they went up to the open, challenged themselves?! Bullshit. They got screwed big time. This is how and why teams will start fixing games.
Had Lavorato thrown the game vs. Burlingame they'd be playing in the D-III game next week.
What a joke.
Congrats Gators, you showed everyone we do play some good ball in The PAL.
SPortela24,
SHP got the crappy end of the stick but they were not better than Grant. If you were a Grant supporter you would be singing a different tune.
I feel for SHP they deserve better, that being said they might want to increase their SOS and take their own destiny into their own hands.
Bottom line is their SOS does not stand up to Grants SOS.
Take for instance Enterprise they lost to a bigger higher ranked team and marred their resume. Had SHP done the same preseason SOS as Grant they would have an argument but they did not choose that path now they face the consequences.
SHP got the crappy end of the stick but they were not better than Grant. If you were a Grant supporter you would be singing a different tune.
I feel for SHP they deserve better, that being said they might want to increase their SOS and take their own destiny into their own hands.
Bottom line is their SOS does not stand up to Grants SOS.
Take for instance Enterprise they lost to a bigger higher ranked team and marred their resume. Had SHP done the same preseason SOS as Grant they would have an argument but they did not choose that path now they face the consequences.
How did they get screwed. What was on SHP's resume that made them a better pick than Grant. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying SHP was not the better choice, but what was in their resume that made them the obvious choice over another team that looked to be just as deserving or maybe more deserving
I am a gator fan and honestly after talking to many players they somewhat hinted at not wanting to play another game. They want to end their season on the program's biggest victory of all time (proving themselves and finally getting WCAL respect). The guys don't want another week of practice during finals (remember SHP is a very academic school) just to get blown out by Folsom or most likely lose in their last game of all the senior's football career. Honestly I am not upset by this and I'm sure the players are not too upset either.
I'm not debating that Grant and Folsom weren't better choices.
You look at the way the state bowl games are structured:
The Open Division is supposed to take the two best schools regardless of enrollment.
Division 1 is for large schools.
Division 4 is for small schools.
Everyone has a division they should fit in, even De La Salle.
SHP is not better than Grant or Folsom but they are better than Campolindo and Sutter.
They were the best Team in The CCS regardless of enrollment. And because of that they don't get an opportunity to play a Regional and possibly state bowl game versus a school of similar enrollenrollment? GTFO. SHP got bent over backwards by The CCS and The State!
You look at the way the state bowl games are structured:
The Open Division is supposed to take the two best schools regardless of enrollment.
Division 1 is for large schools.
Division 4 is for small schools.
Everyone has a division they should fit in, even De La Salle.
SHP is not better than Grant or Folsom but they are better than Campolindo and Sutter.
They were the best Team in The CCS regardless of enrollment. And because of that they don't get an opportunity to play a Regional and possibly state bowl game versus a school of similar enrollenrollment? GTFO. SHP got bent over backwards by The CCS and The State!
Totally agree SPortela
Lost to Terra Nova in league last year and went D-4 and ultimately state
This year went undefeated and won open and gets snubbed. CCS should feel embarrassed to sit at that table. This should lead to major changes and the elimination of the Open Division.....OR.... the CCS will dig their heels in and refuse to admit that the system is broken. They did this with the Open Division Consolation round this year. It sounds like the it was a trainwreck and the CCS refused to cancel the meaningless games.
This post was edited on 12/7 2:05 PM by JimRocky
Lost to Terra Nova in league last year and went D-4 and ultimately state
This year went undefeated and won open and gets snubbed. CCS should feel embarrassed to sit at that table. This should lead to major changes and the elimination of the Open Division.....OR.... the CCS will dig their heels in and refuse to admit that the system is broken. They did this with the Open Division Consolation round this year. It sounds like the it was a trainwreck and the CCS refused to cancel the meaningless games.
This post was edited on 12/7 2:05 PM by JimRocky
The CIF will never have a state playoff system that works as long as the sections are all allowed to run-a-muck and do their own thing in the playoffs. Now a team is eliminated every year so an open team can get a pass and not beat another good team. We have a Nor Cal open champ that will not play for it. CCS has the "open" with consultation games that make no sense, when a team loses a playoff game the season should be done. Forcing teams like SHP and Palma to not play in their enrollment divisions is a disservice. Sac-Jac has the most interesting playoff set up with divisions 1-7. I personally like it but why is D2 champ playing in the D1 game? I know WHY but still it's a confusing system. NCS has a good traditional division 1-5 system that is great for anyone not in D1 with DLS. SF and Oak are a joke, will Mack ever be tested as in today's OAL playoffs? The Northern section is like North of the wall in Game of Thrones, nobody cares what is going on up there.... Enterprise Sutter excluded. Let's get a real playoff or at least have the sections did their ish together and organized.
For starters I read everything I respond to, I even highlighted the quote in his original post that even prompted me to make my post and this person has already made it clear he was not slamming the school that got picked, but was actually slamming the setup of the CCS and how it has kept a very good team from playing another week.
This was a simple misinterpretation of what the intent of his post was and it was to misinterpret when other posters on this board has been slamming Grant and saying SHP should be picked over them. This is a message board and sometimes things you read gets misinterpreted, so chill out dude.
This post was edited on 12/7 5:21 PM by nascar624
They should just do a top 16 team playoff for each division in NorCal and SoCal (separate brackets then winners play each other) like many state do so. Those match ups would be nice. Also have a top 8 teams Open like basketball does. This would make things so much easier. The teams that don't make the top 16 team play off play in their regular playoffs. This would eliminate all discussion on who should get picked for these bowl games.
The coaches that voted to keep the CCS open are to blame. When it comes around again this year (and it will), do the right thing and go to five divisions by enrollment, so teams like SHP will not be screwed again. Its the same complaint every year but usually it from WCAL smaller schools. SHP shocked everybody.
I think SHP was screwed if they were picked to play Folsom too! A CAMPO SHP game would have been great to see!
I think SHP was screwed if they were picked to play Folsom too! A CAMPO SHP game would have been great to see!
"coaches that voted to keep the CCS open "
Actually the coaches/athletic directors and football committee passed an enrollment playoff proposal. The Board of manager of approximately 50 school administrators (i.e., principals) comprised of only approx. 10 privates nixed it. Nothing to do with coaches.
Actually the coaches/athletic directors and football committee passed an enrollment playoff proposal. The Board of manager of approximately 50 school administrators (i.e., principals) comprised of only approx. 10 privates nixed it. Nothing to do with coaches.
I think at a minimum, they play DLS as open winners of both sections that have open. No reward there but nonetheless they earned right to play for a state title.
As far as resume, I am not sure who Grant beat but to Los Gatos and shutout win over Bellermine is pretty impressive conversation starter. System is broken and we need better system, however we are getting late in year and high school football needs to be over before Xmas break as many schools do take finals in mid-December. After all this is still high school...
As far as resume, I am not sure who Grant beat but to Los Gatos and shutout win over Bellermine is pretty impressive conversation starter. System is broken and we need better system, however we are getting late in year and high school football needs to be over before Xmas break as many schools do take finals in mid-December. After all this is still high school...
DLS did not win an Open division. They won NCS D1 which has most of the top teams, but teams like CVC (D2) and Campo (D3) were in their own divisions and did not have to complete with DLS n order to advance.
I honestly don't know how to feel about an open division in the sectional playoffs.
I can understand why the CCS did it and that's because of The WCAL. If it was a public school league, I'd understand but the WCAL typically monopolizes the CCS and because they're private they get many advantages publics don't get.
For an open division within sectional and regional playoffs to function properly, a few things would need to happen:
1/ Every section across the state would need to adopt an open division during sectional playoffs.
2/ Special rules would need to be put in place for open division losers to have a chance to compete in regional and SBG's. Look at Terra Nova and SHP last year. TN was the better team but SHP went to state.
I can understand why the CCS did it and that's because of The WCAL. If it was a public school league, I'd understand but the WCAL typically monopolizes the CCS and because they're private they get many advantages publics don't get.
For an open division within sectional and regional playoffs to function properly, a few things would need to happen:
1/ Every section across the state would need to adopt an open division during sectional playoffs.
2/ Special rules would need to be put in place for open division losers to have a chance to compete in regional and SBG's. Look at Terra Nova and SHP last year. TN was the better team but SHP went to state.
There are more than one state that have separate privates versus privates and publics versus publics play-offs. Put the private schools all in one group and the public schools all in another. Then add one more game so that the winner of the private school divisions plays whe winner of the public school divisions.
Wow....After months of telling CCS they don't have a shot this year it becomes true...and out of the woodwork come the Nay Sayers? Where have you been? I have been saying it for a while that the CCS is a middle of the pack section that does itself no favors with the Open format. The CCS/WCAL needs to wake up and realize they are not considered a top section anymore. Now that you have to play another section team to get a chance at the show how things have changed....
Gators
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Per colleague @SHPAthletics ...
This post was edited on 12/8 12:27 PM by Where Are They Now
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Per colleague @SHPAthletics ...
This post was edited on 12/8 12:27 PM by Where Are They Now
Well all the folks who wined about teams being elevated to a regional open game not being able to go to a state bowl game because DLS was in the way or wined about NorCal not getting better teams to represent the region because DLS would knock out the 2nd best team got what they wanted. Be careful what you wish for.
It's just too bad that SHP had to be the victim, what a great story, that little school winning CCS open, but it would have been even better if they could get a shot at the D-1 regional vs Grant. And on top of that, we also get denied the best matchup of NorCal teams probably since DLS and Pitt met in 1995.
While everyone is blaming the CCS for their Open division how about shifting some blame to the SJS for not putting Grant and Folsom on the same side of the bracket. Everyone still would have gotten their money from the Grant Folsom game and the winner of the CCS Open would have played the winner of SJS. Not sure anyone would have been picked from the other side of the SJS opposite Folsom Grant. Would have been a no brainer and the game still would have been played on the field and not on the computer.
If CIFSJS had an Open Division (ala CCS), Grant/Folsom would've played last week for right to play SHP next.
Having an Open division playoffs (for CCS) made sense when section championship was the ultimate championship, as someone else from within CCS posted on a different thread. But, as we have all witnessed, having an Open division hurts other teams that could have better chances at a state level championship more appropriate for their enrollment, if not subjected to play an Open section championship. No use trying to point the blame on SJS (ie. SJS should have an Open playoffs) in this matter. Nice try!
I personally thought it would be a political decision of taking the best team from SJS (Folsom) vs the best team from CCS (SHP). But, it did not happen. Just think ... the best NCS team that is not DLS was also handicapped from this picture. So much for fair representation from ALL sections. Oh well.
Sounds like a re-vamp of the entire playoff system (down to section level) needs to be done across all sections if we are going to continue to have a regional/state playoff picture. Until then, we are all subjected to the current rules dictated by each respective section and by CIF in general.
P.S. Still think its a big joke that the Open representative (DLS) does not have to play anyone at the regional level. Yet, other teams do. It's like we are going back to eliminating the regional playoff system and just pick a team to go - kind of where we are with Grant getting picked over SHP. It is what it is. Time to move on!
I personally thought it would be a political decision of taking the best team from SJS (Folsom) vs the best team from CCS (SHP). But, it did not happen. Just think ... the best NCS team that is not DLS was also handicapped from this picture. So much for fair representation from ALL sections. Oh well.
Sounds like a re-vamp of the entire playoff system (down to section level) needs to be done across all sections if we are going to continue to have a regional/state playoff picture. Until then, we are all subjected to the current rules dictated by each respective section and by CIF in general.
P.S. Still think its a big joke that the Open representative (DLS) does not have to play anyone at the regional level. Yet, other teams do. It's like we are going back to eliminating the regional playoff system and just pick a team to go - kind of where we are with Grant getting picked over SHP. It is what it is. Time to move on!
What do you mean same side of the bracket? They were placed in different brackets, based upon their enrollment numbers.
There were 16 teams that qualified for the playoffs with larger enrollment than Grant -- Folsom among them -- thus placing the Pacers in D2. You're blame is misguided. The CIF is who really deserves blame for eliminating the Open game. If that didn't happen, the Gators wouldn't have been left out.
FWIW, Grant has qualified SJS D2 in 7 of the past 9 seasons. Folsom was right there with them from 2009 through 2012 but enrollment moved them up to D1 the past 2 seasons. D2 is where most the best teams have resided the past 6-7 years.
Same whiny kids saying "Not Fair"! Whatever dude. Like the SJS has to be more like the CCS? How about this.....Why don't your public schools get better and compete at a higher level so you don't have an "OPEN"? Or why don't you just scrap the "OPEN" and just let the chips fall where they may because of enrollment? And for the people complaining about Grant and Folsom not playing each other this year in sections its determined by enrollment, not a set up or done on purpose so get over it. Its the format the SJS has been using for years.
Bottom line is SHP got screwed. If nothing else why not let them play for Open championship. They did win the only Open section title. Why is DLS crowned NorCal Open rep. Granted playing DLS is no reward but why not settle it on field. SHP has victoriously battled everytim e they were supposed to lose, except in State game last year, which they represented well. Can they beat DLS, probably not but di they not earn they right to try.
Didn't I just read this. ..I think I did anyway. Whatever. Shp should be proud no one can beat them.
You are correct. Also in the SJS open would have been Central Catholic and Oakdale. If the NCS had an Open you would have to include Clayton Valley and Campolindo.
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