Is CCS going to lose 2 of its 5 regional play-in spots?

[NorCalSportsFan]

I was looking at CIF bowl criteria-

http://www.cifstate.org/sports/football/2015_State_Football_Championships_Info_WEB.pdf

PLACEMENT INTO DIVISIONS

a. Only Section champions will be eligible except for Sections with an Open Division Championship (see below)

b. CIF Sections with an Open Division Championship will be allowed to replace one or more of their Section champions from another division with a team that participated in that Section’s Open Division. That Section’s Open Division team may only replace that Section’s Champion from the division in which they would have been slotted if they had not been selected for the Section’s Open Division. Sections with an Open Division choosing to utilize this provision must have a policy in place (adhering to the above language) which outlines the process the Section will use to replace champions from their Section divisions with non-champions from their Open Division.

QUALIFYING TO CIF STATE/REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS Teams must compete and qualify through their respective CIF Section Championships to participate in CIF State/Regional Championships. Only Section Champions are eligible for selection to the CIF State/Regional Football Championship Bowl Games except as listed in A.(2)b. above.

Now CCS, which can be afforded 5 bowl play-in slots, will only have 3 bowl eligible playoff divisions. The Open division was gotten rid of for this year. In any event, since CCS will have only 3 bowl eligible divisions, will they lose 2 spots? CCS will attempt to send runner's up in a couple of the bowl eligible playoffs, but none seem to qualify as Open Divisions. This seems to point to CCS only obtaining 3 play-in bowl participants.

 

[PALbooster]

My understanding is that this is still in discussion between the CCS and CIF. The CCS if trying to get the CIF to recognize its three open divisions as open division championships and use its restated selection criteria to use two of the three open division runner-ups as replacements for the two section champions in the non-open divisions.

It comes down to whether or not the CIF will recognize the three CCS open divisions or if their intent is really for sections that only have a single open division and then allow a section to select teams that didn't win the open to represent the section in the regional play-offs. Not sure on the time table of when this will be decided.

I personally like how the CCS is doing their play-offs, but if they don't get CIF recognition and get the 5 regional play-off spots I would bet the CCS will revamp their system so they get to send 5 teams in the future.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

The problem is that CCS makes changes before discussions with CIF rather than having discussions and then change playoff format. It's like CIF did make accommodations for Open Division runner-ups but then CCS changes the format to one that no longer fits CIF accommodation. CCS set its playoff and like last season implemented a playoff format that won't help the section with the bowls. There is a high probability that CIF won't make any changes to the current qualification and CCS will forefit a couple slots.

 

[slick58]

I like the way the CCS has set up their playoffs this season but I wouldn't call it an open. They basically set up 3 divisions. In years past the CCS had a true open playoff. They sorta jumped the gun with changing the format without checking with the CIF first.

 

[PALbooster]

According to Darren Sabedra of the San Jose Mercury News the CIF has agreed to accept 5 teams from the CCS to regionals which will include 2 of the 3 runner-ups from the open division.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/hsspor...s-from-its-three-open-divisions-to-regionals/

 

[Streak One]

I don't like the idea of someone losing and still advancing unless it is a true Open Division (one for the section). Yes, the CCS can send five quality teams, but if you can't win one of these brackets, should you be playing on the regional/state level

 

[paul_johnson884]

Losing and advancing in football is dumb.
Move to a real playoff and we wont need to discuss dumb ideas like losing and advancing.

 

[Cal 14]

I suspect that many other sections will complain for a couple of years, then adopt similar policies.

 

[hamrnhank]

If the CCS is going to send 3 teams that win in their A brackets and 2 of the runner ups in the A bracket. Then why even have playoffs in B/C bracket, you win and can't advance, so why play and risk getting injured, for what? Kind of like last year when Serra refused to play a meaningless game.

 

[ds1968]

Hamrnhank: in a short version to your question, it lets non football power school teams have a chance to win at least some sort of championship and be crowned.


Back in the days, there was only one open division since 2004 (with 3 other divisions 04-08, and increased it to 4 others after) Then came STATE playoffs (BIG CHANGE). NOW, champions of the section can go further. Problem: All the good teams went to the open, a champion was crowned, and in some years that team did go on and some years not (think bcs, or college playoffs) AND since the good teams went to the open, the champions of the other divisions rarely if not at all got a chance to play further.(if someone can correct me, please do) So, that meant, there were some years that there were NO representative team from the ccs for the state playoffs.
It seemed like there were 2 philosophies going through the CCS board of managers at that time. Do we still concentrate on keeping the integrity of the CCS and focus just on the good of our section. OR, do we concentrate on sending the very best teams to state playoffs in every division.
If you concentrated only on what was best for the section, then there would be one open, multiple divisions, top teams (predominantly wcal teams) in the open while the other weaker league teams battle in the divisions. That way, a non-wcal team has a chance to win a section championship. (that's the concept, but in reality many wcal teams still won open AND divisions)
If you concentrated on sending the best team to the state playoffs, then there would be NO open, wcal teams would be distributed to most if not all divisions, possible get into the state playoffs, and assumed that the non wcal teams would even have a less probability of winning section championships.
OK, LETS COMPROMISE according to the board of managers, and the exec committee, and the ad's, and football committee. lets get 3 open divisions and 2 others. 5 champions all together. It lets the non wcal teams compete for a section championship in the 2 sections. it lets the wcal teams and the best non wcal teams to compete among themselves for section AND state championships in the 3 open sections. It now lets the CCS send the best to the state playoffs of at least three open champions, instead of 1 like in the past.
But we have 5 sections. So the ccs decided to send 2 runner ups of the open the "fill in" the slots. (3 true open champions, and the 2 runner ups) i know there have been people that have commented on runner ups going to the playoffs.

 

[hamrnhank]

The CCS may have some valid points in doing their selection choices for sending the " Best " teams to the regionals for a possible chance to play in a State Bowl Championships. But I see that they are stacking the deck to place a second place team that lost, to be put in with the winners pool, and thus giving them a second chance. What happen to the saying that the CIF said, " it gives very school a chance " to be in the state championship. But with what the CCS is doing is giving the " haves " the chance and the " have nots " no chance. No " HOOSIER " story being told here.

 

[TheFolsomBulldog]

So the CCS will get no open division teams? Am I reading this correctly?

 

[HSfan82]

According to Darren Sabedra of the San Jose Mercury News the CIF has agreed to accept 5 teams from the CCS to regionals which will include 2 of the 3 runner-ups from the open division.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/hsspor...s-from-its-three-open-divisions-to-regionals/

This makes no sense. CIF backed down to CCS. CCS should have to comply with CIF structure, set 5 divisions and those winners go to regional game. They are using WCAL as reason they are unique but that is weak. They are making it too complicated---in football the playoffs are win or go home!!

 

[joebl]

This makes no sense. CIF backed down to CCS. CCS should have to comply with CIF structure, set 5 divisions and those winners go to regional game. They are using WCAL as reason they are unique but that is weak. They are making it too complicated---in football the playoffs are win or go home!!

I had no problem with keeping the single Open division that the CCS has run with for past several years and believe all the sections should have a single Open division. However, the problem is that CIF came up with a rule that said only Section winners can move on to state playoffs. Since the state playoff system had different bowl games based on school size, it went directly against having a single section champion. I think the best solution would be to have every Section have a single Open division, but for the regional/state bowl games they can nominate the best teams by school size (if they go with 5 sizes, then allow each section 5 nominees). With exception given to some single league sections where perhaps only the winner of that can move onto bowl playoffs.

 

[ds1968]

The CCS may have some valid points in doing their selection choices for sending the " Best " teams to the regionals for a possible chance to play in a State Bowl Championships. But I see that they are stacking the deck to place a second place team that lost, to be put in with the winners pool, and thus giving them a second chance. What happen to the saying that the CIF said, " it gives very school a chance " to be in the state championship. But with what the CCS is doing is giving the " haves " the chance and the " have nots " no chance. No " HOOSIER " story being told here.

Hamrnhank: I like your statement about the haves and have nots. Its a complicated issue where it affects the CCS, the powerhouse football schools, and the non-wcal schools. The CCS WANTS to send 5 teams. The CIF WANTS to take the teams. The administrators of non-wcal schools WANT a chance for a section championship (thinking that they have no chance in beating a wcal school or a powerhouse non-wcal school at sections) (hoosier scenario). AND the wcal/ other powerhouse football schools WANT a chance to compete state level. The current CCS football playoff system as it stands now satisfies all parties.
The only people that is affecting seems to be the FANS that believe in the philosophy of "lose and go home", "one and done"

If its only affecting a portion of fans with a particular belief, trust me, the ccs, the cif, the non-powerhouse schools, and the powerhouse schools will not care about those fans and gladly adopt this system.

 

[ds1968]

This makes no sense. CIF backed down to CCS. CCS should have to comply with CIF structure, set 5 divisions and those winners go to regional game. They are using WCAL as reason they are unique but that is weak. They are making it too complicated---in football the playoffs are win or go home!!

HSfan82: I completely understand your point. However, the ccs board of managers, comprised of non-powerhouse football school adminstrators, would not want the 5 division no open system because they are afraid that it would reduce the probability of a non powerhouse football school winning a SECTION championship. They believe that only wcal schools would win many championships. (And based on past championship history, i would say that there have been plenty wcal schools winning section championships per year, but I am too lazy to count and get actual figures. So I could be wrong. Please let me know)

 

[HSfan82]

no you are right, WCAL would dominate as they have, but so what....if that is the best teams in the section so be it

 

[ds1968]

no you are right, WCAL would dominate as they have, but so what....if that is the best teams in the section so be it

I hear you. I guess we need to become school administrators, get on the ccs board, and start "politicking" to others for the 5 divisions, thus sending the best.

 

[Dooer]

Yes, but the CCS is somewhat unique in that the strength of the section is primarily private schools that do not quite have to follow the same admittance procedures as the public schools. This can and has lead to a top heavy concentration of private schools in the strength of athletic programs. No other section in Nor. Calif faces this disparity. Yes, there are some very strong private schools in other sections, but not the concentration that the CCS has.

 

[HSfan82]

Not really true... NCS has similar private school domination
D1 DLS
D2 only one up for grabs
D3 traditionally has been MC or CN.. Campo has had some success
D4 top teams this year MC CN Moreau St Marys,Justin Siena
D5 Salesian big power and this year Berean Christian and Valley Christian - Dublin

This starts whole new conversation about private vs public