Problems (or not) with the seeds in NCS

[straightline50]

Isn’t that a compelling case? Napa beat a team Freedom lost to. To just rely on the computer ratings is lazy in my opinion. With your logic. Congratulations. Miramonte has made the open regardless of the outcome of the next 2 weeks.

Common opponent victory can't trump a 26 game rating. CN lost to SHC and SJND beat them. However, CN has a better Max Prep rating and was seeded ahead of SJND. Tough to argue a rating over a 26 game schedule vs. a common opponent victory or loss. Head to head could make things tricky depending on when that game took place. To me a game in December is different than a game in January or February but head to head is hard to look past.

update - For fun I just looked at the two teams. If anyone looked at Napa should be in over Freedom. Here is the problem, Monte Vista beat Freedom so you would think they have to be in but Napa still has a better resume than both. Freedom benefited by getting in over Napa and then jumps a team that beat them to avoid the #1 seed and a longer travel to stay at home and go to Heritage.

I agree with winetot on this.

 

[northbaybbguru]

I would just like to point out that a couple of weeks ago I posted to pay attention to the MaxPrep rankings and got shredded for it by a couple of NCP members...

 

[mkbgdns]

Miramonte has made the open regardless of the outcome of the next 2 weeks.

some folks in north bay (I assume winetot isn't posting from the artichoke capital of the world) can't get over CN being assigned Open, and MM DII two years ago. never mind that CN had one of the most impressive Open runs since the inception of the Open, beating Clet and Pwood on the road to reach the Open final, while MM lost in the DII final. wineguru a tag team? same poster w/2 handles? grudges die hard.

 

[winetot]

It was brought up solely because of your comment on computer rankings. It bothers me that we do a lot of schedule breakdown and you are letting NCS off the hook with computer rankings.

 

[northbaybbguru]

some folks in north bay (I assume winetot isn't posting from the artichoke capital of the world) can't get over CN being assigned Open, and MM DI two years ago. never mind that CN had one of the most impressive Open runs since the inception of the Open, beating Clet and Pwood on the road to reach the final, while MM lost in the DI final. wineguru a tag team? same poster w/2 handles? grudges die hard.

youre a dipsh*t...

Winetot is a Justin-siena guy (well known on NCP)

the MM sycophants are ridiculous...

 

[winetot]

I’m a different person than guru. My daughter and her team actually benefited from the Open in 2014. My comment to Clay was because I am under the impression he assists at Miramonte and their computer ranking this year is off the charts

 

[mkbgdns]

the MM sycophants are ridiculous...

thanks. it sounds so much more dignified than synonyms toady, lickspittle, or kowtower, particularly after "dipsh*t". if you had added a "p" to the beginning, it would sound like a psychiatric diagnosis. maybe I could get help.

 

[ClayK]

Just to be clear, I never have said that I favor one method over the other -- what I said was that the committee seemed to be doing so.

Whether that's right or wrong is a different question ...

As for Miramonte, we want to win D-II and go to the Open. Is there a problem with that?

The computer rankings, we hope, will help us get a good seed. But you never know ...

 

[winetot]

My point was that you are going whether you win or lose DII according to computer rankings. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[DonniePeckerwood]

As for Miramonte, we want to win D-II and go to the Open. Is there a problem with that?

Ha! I fell off my rocking chair when I read that! Did you get the ok from the boss to say that in public!?

-Donnie prophecy

 

[ClayK]

As I mentioned, I'm not sure the computer ratings are the best way to determine postseason placement, but the NCS committee likes them.

But if we get put in the Open should O'Dowd beat us, sure -- we're pretty good this year, at least so far.

Why is this so important to you?

 

[winetot]

I think the system is flawed and I think a few teams got the short end of the stick in the seeding meetings. You continue to protect the process and because of that I am merely sharing my opinion. If the NCS committee likes the computer rankings, that most likely comes from the NCS office(one you continue to protect). If they are so important, then the league office should use them when seeding their top 4 NCS teams once the division tournaments are completed next week. I, personally, think they should do a better job at identifying their short comings and put people on the committees that will actually work harder at taking in all the information as opposed to just looking at rankings. I think it is important to be consistent. I am willing to bet there will not be the same amount of consistency sent to the CIF next week when determining the ranking of our potential OPEN teams.

 

[mkbgdns]

I've made clear my skepticism about HAL's rankings.
is MM the 20th best team in the country? well...uh...
is MM better than Salesian and Clet? well...uh...
is MM trying to attract good players by avoiding the Open? well...uh...

 

[straightline50]

The interesting part of all of this is the fact that the computer rankings are not even accurate when they use them. The Friday and Saturday games and even the late reported Thursday games are not factored into the Max Preps formula. This was done on Tuesday. Not sure how much it matters but as Winetot mentioned there should be some consistency.

 

[straightline50]

I've made clear my skepticism about HAL's rankings.
is MM the 20th best team in the country? well...uh...
is MM better than Salesian and Clet? well...uh...
is MM trying to attract good players by avoiding the Open? well...uh...

I don't think there is a team avoiding the Open. Maybe a team would rather be #1 in D1 as opposed to #8 in Open. Most of the open caliber teams have long tenured coaches and if they wanted to avoid the open or game the system they would do it long before the section playoffs, dumping 3-4 games along the way would basically go unnoticed and as a result keep their ranking down.

 

[winetot]

I agree and to be clear I never said Miramonte was avoiding the open , I just welcomed Clay to it.

 

[mkbgdns]

not sure Donnie and The Guru agree.

 

[winetot]

not sure Donnie and The Guru agree.

i meant this year

 

[northbaybbguru]

mkbgdns...

as I have said over and over and over and over again.....

I think its weak that ANY assistant coach is on NCP speculating about what happens if his team loses....or worse, if his team wins and why they shouldn't compete at the top level.

I find it ridiculous that the year AFTER playing in the state OPEN final a coach would be on this website explaining to everybody why they shouldn't be in the OPEN and how they "deserve" a chance to win a state title. (his words)...like MM has any more right than anyone else....ESPECIALLY after playing in the state OPEN title game the year before.


So when I see posts that to me are leaning towards him lobbying to not be put at the top level...I get annoyed. And I will continue to call him out if I see him do it.

I haven't replied to any of his posts recently because I've thought his posts on the OPEN have been spot on, well written and fair. AND I've actually mentioned to some that I've thought Clay has done a good job on the posts and seems to making an effort to NOT come across that way(no lobbying). Which is how it should be done.

 

[mkbgdns]

2017 lives! and grudges die hard! I thank you for your honesty, really.

not coy like winetot.

"I never said Miramonte was avoiding the Open"

"I meant this year"

 

[Norcal_Fan]

mkbgdns...

as I have said over and over and over and over again.....

I think its weak that ANY assistant coach is on NCP speculating about what happens if his team loses....or worse, if his team wins and why they shouldn't compete at the top level.

I find it ridiculous that the year AFTER playing in the state OPEN final a coach would be on this website explaining to everybody why they shouldn't be in the OPEN and how they "deserve" a chance to win a state title. (his words)...like MM has any more right than anyone else....ESPECIALLY after playing in the state OPEN title game the year before.


So when I see posts that to me are leaning towards him lobbying to not be put at the top level...I get annoyed. And I will continue to call him out if I see him do it.

I haven't replied to any of his posts recently because I've thought his posts on the OPEN have been spot on, well written and fair. AND I've actually mentioned to some that I've thought Clay has done a good job on the posts and seems to making an effort to NOT come across that way(no lobbying). Which is how it should be done.

While I hear what you're saying, what Clay says on here has ZERO effect what goes on in the room when they rearrange seeds. If he thinks his team is open let him advocate. IF he doesn't, who cares? This is all speculation and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[winetot]

2017 lives! and grudges die hard! I thank you for your honesty, really.

not coy like winetot.

"I never said Miramonte was avoiding the Open"

"I meant this year"

In 2017 I thought Cardinal Newman should have been open, they had 2 D1 players on that team. So to get it right, it should be 2018 lives on and I do believe Miramonte should have been there last year.

 

[HSfan82]

Word is Gil and his folks screwed up and Odowd boys should have hosted based on some priority number ranking thing...didnt matter as ODowd won by 30 but just had to travel in rain for 45 minutes to Benecia...way to reward your #1 seed... he is retiring when?????????

 

[ClayK]

NCS did not look good, given the committee couldn't figure out that O'Dowd boys were league champs and that SMB didn't qualify.

I've heard that Gil may not be the NCS representative to the NorCal seeding committee, which might change things. Last year, NCS had four teams in the Open and they were seeded 5, 6, 7 and 8 -- I remember when I was at Campo, we were pretty good and were seeded sixth and had to travel to SHC to play (and beat) a team I thought we should have been seeded higher than.. Last year, Miramonte and SJND were 3 and 4 ...

Those meetings involve negotiations and perhaps more important, a sense of urgency about how postseason plays out. I have the feeling that Gil just didn't think those games were as important as section games -- and there's really nothing wrong with that -- and so didn't fight as hard as some of the others.

Of course, I could be completely wrong ... but if the meetings were open to press and public, as in the past, we'd know a kot more.