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Rankings Reaction after St. Francis' win

Streak One

Streak One

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Nov 11, 2003
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Lot of talk on here about how you slot teams now. Here are a few takes:

NCP:

1. Folsom
2. St. Francis
3. De La Salle
4. Serra
5. Pittsburg

Cal Hi Sports (NorCal)

1. Folsom
2. Serra
3. St. Francis
4. De La Salle
5. Pittsburg

BANG (Bay Area Only)

1. Serra
2. St. Francis
3. Pittsburg
4. De La Salle
5. Los Gatos

SF Chronicle (Bay Area)

1. St. Francis
2. De La Salle
3. Serra
4. Pittsburg
5. McClymonds

SportsStars (NorCal)

1. Folsom
2. St. Francis
3. De La Salle
4. Serra
5. Pittsburg
 
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Cal 14 said:
Like I said, it's a tough position.

Pitt over DLS... sorry, but that's just a bit silly.
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I don't think so at all.

I think Pitt looked better against Folsom than DLS did against SF.

I think Rocklin is better than DLS.
 
pastyfastquick3 said:
I don't think so at all.

I think Pitt looked better against Folsom than DLS did against SF.

I think Rocklin is better than DLS.
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How do you make a comparison between two unrelated games? The closest we come to a comparison is with Monterey Trail with Folsom and DLS. That comparison suggests Folsom and DLS are similar in strength.

SF has no comparison points except with DLS alone. (To extend that comparison out further, DLS was ever so slightly better against MT than was Folsom. Since SF beat DLS, one could argue that SF is better than Folsom.)

Rocklin has no comparison points except with other unrelated teams.
 
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Streak One said:
Lot of talk on here about how you slot teams now. Here are a few takes:

NCP:

1. Folsom
2. St. Francis
3. De La Salle
4. Serra
5. Pittsburg

Cal Hi Sports (NorCal)

1. Folsom
2. Serra
3. St. Francis
4. De La Salle
5. Pittsburg

BANG (Bay Area Only)

1. Serra
2. St. Francis
3. Pittsburg
4. De La Salle
5. Los Gatos

SF Chronicle (Bay Area)

1. St. Francis
2. De La Salle
3. Serra
4. Pittsburg
5. McClymonds

SportsStars (NorCal)

1. Folsom
2. St. Francis
3. De La Salle
4. Serra
5. Pittsburg
Click to expand...

NCP version is spot-on. Two obvious reasons for SF at No.2: SF is unbeaten and upset DLS; Serra's schedule, so far, has been less than challenging due to its game with Pitt having been called off due to smoke issues.
 
Streak One said:
Lot of talk on here about how you slot teams now. Here are a few takes:

NCP:

1. Folsom
2. St. Francis
3. De La Salle
4. Serra
5. Pittsburg

Cal Hi Sports (NorCal)

1. Folsom
2. Serra
3. St. Francis
4. De La Salle
5. Pittsburg

BANG (Bay Area Only)

1. Serra
2. St. Francis
3. Pittsburg
4. De La Salle
5. Los Gatos

SF Chronicle (Bay Area)

1. St. Francis
2. De La Salle
3. Serra
4. Pittsburg
5. McClymonds

SportsStars (NorCal)

1. Folsom
2. St. Francis
3. De La Salle
4. Serra
5. Pittsburg
Click to expand...
Nice side-by-side comparisons. Here's a couple CGR ranking systems take on the top 5.
Calpreps
1. Folsom
2. Pitts
3. SF
4. DLS
5. Rock

Massey
1. Folsom
2. DLS
3. Rock
4. SF
5. Serra

Obviously the Massey system doesn't have the same rule in place as Calpreps. That is, undefeated teams must be rated higher than all teams they have defeated. I believe that means SF must be ranked higher than DLS until they, themselves, are defeated.
 
colhenrylives said:
NCP version is spot-on. Two obvious reasons for SF at No.2: SF is unbeaten and upset DLS; Serra's schedule, so far, has been less than challenging due to its game with Pitt having been called off due to smoke issues.
Click to expand...
There are arguments both ways. I, too, was surprised to see DLS dropped to #4 behind Serra... until just a few moments ago.

Although, I remain disappointed they didn't get their game against Pitt played, I actually think they're in a pretty smart position. St. Francis had to beat DLS to move ahead of them. Folsom has to beat DLS to remain ahead of them. Serra only has to beat St. Francis.

Again, I know there was a lot of excitement over last Friday's game, but who here really thinks that beating SF would remain a more difficult task than beating DLS?

I think Doug's stance may be that if he keeps Folsom higher than SF, it would be easier to justify keeping it that way if the Bulldogs beat the Spartans whereas it could be more difficult to try to make that move from #3 to #1.

Well, the same goes for Serra. What happens if DLS beats Folsom and Serra goes unbeaten? It's now an even tougher spot. Do you move DLS back to #1 or do you put the team that beat the team that beat DLS at #1?

Tennis thinks Serra is better than SF, so he placed them higher. Doug thinks Folsom is better than SF, so he placed them higher. Really, it's the same argument... but, which is more likely to happen? Serra beating SF or Folsom beating DLS?

Both are sort of locked into putting SF above the Spartans, at least for the time being. Tennis commented that eventually, that could change and I agree with that mentality. Let's see if SF can hold the position, but recognize if the position is sketchy.
 
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Cal 14 said:
There are arguments both ways. I, too, was surprised to see DLS dropped to #4 behind Serra... until just a few moments ago.

Although, I remain disappointed they didn't get their game against Pitt played, I actually think they're in a pretty smart position. St. Francis had to beat DLS to move ahead of them. Folsom has to beat DLS to remain ahead of them. Serra only has to beat St. Francis.

Again, I know there was a lot of excitement over last Friday's game, but who here really thinks that beating SF would remain a more difficult task than beating DLS?

I think Doug's stance may be that if he keeps Folsom higher than SF, it would be easier to justify keeping it that way if the Bulldogs beat the Spartans whereas it could be more difficult to try to make that move from #3 to #1.

Well, the same goes for Serra. What happens if DLS beats Folsom and Serra goes unbeaten? It's now an even tougher spot. Do you move DLS back to #1 or do you put the team that beat the team that beat DLS at #1?

Tennis thinks Serra is better than SF, so he placed them higher. Doug thinks Folsom is better than SF, so he placed them higher. Really, it's the same argument... but, which is more likely to happen? Serra beating SF or Folsom beating DLS?

Both are sort of locked into putting SF above the Spartans, at least for the time being. Tennis commented that eventually, that could change and I agree with that mentality. Let's see if SF can hold the position, but recognize if the position is sketchy.
Click to expand...
First, these are great discussions and rankings get more entertaining when you have multiple "right" answers.

For me, I tried to focus on a team's resume with a eye toward previous rank (but not tied to it). Folsom's three wins (MT, Jesuit, Pittsburg) are a better collection than St. Francis (De La Salle, Oak Grove). De La Salle's two wins (MT, St. Mary's) are better than Serra's two wins (Palo Alto, Half Moon Bay). De La Salle has the loss, but that wasn't enough for me to drop them behind Serra when taking in resume and where they were ranked.

Playing it out, Folsom and St. Francis play in tough leagues and will have ranked teams in their playoff division. So if they both end up undefeated, they will have very similar resumes with Folsom being slighly better IMO.

De La Salle could make it interesting if it wins its next three games (Cathedral, St. Frances and Folsom). If St. Francis and Serra split this year and DLS won out, the Spartans have a shot at the Open game. Lot of what ifs in those sentences.

For Serra, I get moving them up because they have been the class of the section for this recent stretch, blew out St. Francis in the spring and were 3rd heading into the week. I just didn't want to lean that much on preseason assumptions when we have had meaningful results through four weeks.
 
For some perspective, putting a lot of weight on Serra's huge 49-7 rout of St. Francis this past spring may be a mistake. There were pandemic factors involved. Serra, with Coach Walsh leading a statewide charge to allow games to be played, was primed, prepared and panting to go into action. Clearly, that win, especially the margin of victory, has to be taken with at least some degree of wariness.
 
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colhenrylives said:
For some perspective, putting a lot of weight on Serra's huge 49-7 rout of St. Francis this past spring may be a mistake. There were pandemic factors involved. Serra, with Coach Walsh leading a statewide charge to allow games to be played, was primed, prepared and panting to go into action. Clearly, that win, especially the margin of victory, has to be taken with at least some degree of wariness.
Click to expand...
This St Francis team Sr class defeated DLS soundly as frosh as well as Serra. Only loss was VC. Juniors lost to DL as frosh and defeated Serra again and VC. Lost to Bells soundly. In general, you add both classes and probably the talent in WCAL. At least, should be good game when St Francis and Serra meet. VC seems to have not developed developed as much as others or Pitt is very strong on domination of VC. Pitt is a good team. Folsom defeating Pitt a great win, but maybe game would be closer given Pitts first game and Folsom's third. In any event DLS and Folsom will face off and good chance DLS and Pitt will in playoffs. WCAL looks like top 3 or 4 teams will be battles.
 
Using frosh wins over DLS is a weak argument IMO. My son’s undefeated Frosh team beat them and then the next three years at the varsity level those Cal High teams didn’t even come close to beating them. Beating DLS was gargantuan for St. Francis but I can’t see anyone but Folsom in the number one slot at this time.
 
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Lots of football left. I wouldn’t be surprised if DLS wins their next 3 games. And I’m sure Serra, VC and possibly Bellarmine will have a say in the WCAL race.
 
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Folsom should be ranked #1 currently. Until they lose to DLS, and, then, DLS should return to #1. The point has been made a few times...it is more difficult to beat DLS than Serra/Pitt/SF/et al.
 
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Bubba3000 said:
Using frosh wins over DLS is a weak argument IMO. My son’s undefeated Frosh team beat them and then the next three years at the varsity level those Cal High teams didn’t even come close to beating them. Beating DLS was gargantuan for St. Francis but I can’t see anyone but Folsom in the number one slot at this time.
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If you look at both juniors and senior classes as frosh usually an indication of strength more than not. DLS seniors were defeated very soundly 34-6 by St Francis as frosh (its only loss) and juniors defeated the Lancers 27-7 as frosh. Indicates SF seniors has some talent. Just an indicator.
 
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NorCalSportsFan said:
This St Francis team Sr class defeated DLS soundly as frosh as well as Serra. Only loss was VC. Juniors lost to DL as frosh and defeated Serra again and VC. Lost to Bells soundly. In general, you add both classes and probably the talent in WCAL. At least, should be good game when St Francis and Serra meet. VC seems to have not developed developed as much as others or Pitt is very strong on domination of VC. Pitt is a good team. Folsom defeating Pitt a great win, but maybe game would be closer given Pitts first game and Folsom's third. In any event DLS and Folsom will face off and good chance DLS and Pitt will in playoffs. WCAL looks like top 3 or 4 teams will be battles.
Click to expand...

Using that argument only strengthens the argument for Serra. My understanding from another post on this board is that Serra actually beat St. Francis with a host of Freshman & Sophomore starters playing up on that varsity team that smoked SF in the spring. Those Freshman & Sophomore players couldn't be in two places at one time, so this weakened the underclass teams for Serra and that may be why the SF wins against Serra's Freshman & JV teams occurred.

There was a freshman named Joseph Bey that would have been on the field in that freshman game but instead he was starting for Serra's Varsity team. I think the varsity reps Serra's underclassmen got will trump the freshman & JV reps SF underclassmen got. Don't you?
 
True. Just indicator and we will find out when they play. Yes....many factors to account for. Palma had something like 8 Freshmen up on JV (7) and one on varsity (1) this year until last week when JV team was disbanded due to injuries and back on frosh. In any event, Serra and ST Francis should be a good game. In any event, if they all stay in the program it indicates they should compete when you put the two classes together. A VC and Bells frosh class also defeated one of the two each in the seniors and juniors classes. Just an indication of strength or talent and coaching. Some programs really get better by time they are seniors. Just indication. If both seniors and juniors as frosh aren't very strong as well as sophs- you know the program is probably in for a down year or have lack of depth and subject to key injuries more than some years.
 
Cuba_Libre said:
Folsom should be ranked #1 currently. Until they lose to DLS, and, then, DLS should return to #1. The point has been made a few times...it is more difficult to beat DLS than Serra/Pitt/SF/et al.
Click to expand...
After DLS loses to Cathedral, they're loss to Folsom will likely drop them out of the top 10. They may have 4 losses this year.
 
Not saying this will happen (tho it might), but...

Wouldn't it be fun if DLS lost tonight to Cathedral and again next week to St. Frances, and then beat Folsom? This forum might just explode!

Anyway, I do think DLS will lose one or two of their next three. Which ones? No clue.
 
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kiddman32 said:
Not saying this will happen (tho it might), but...

Wouldn't it be fun if DLS lost tonight to Cathedral and again next week to St. Frances, and then beat Folsom? This forum might just explode!

Anyway, I do think DLS will lose one or two of their next three. Which ones? No clue.
Click to expand...
Would def be fun to see a group of people explode. However, DLS was another bad half away from losing to an extremely mediocre St Mary's team.

Folsom will handle DLS
 
Cuba_Libre said:
If both of those things happen, that should be the case. My personal opinion is that losing to both Cathedral and Folsom will not happen.
Click to expand...
One game at a time. Cathedral comes into town tonight with some SD swagger and lays it on the SJSU Spartans
 
FBAddict said:
One game at a time is good advice... Pondering a 4-loss DLS from the same person is odd and ironic.
FBAddict said:
One game at a time is good advice... Pondering a 4-loss DLS from the same person is odd and ironic.
Click to expand...
Exactly- One game at a time. Cathedral may be a big mountain to climb for this DLS team, based on what I've seen. A loss tonight will move them closer to a 4 loss regular season, to which I said is entirely possible.
Click to expand...
 
I saw that CalPreps score, wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being really close.

I think DLS will play a good bit better than they've been playing thus far this season, but that Cathedral is almost certainly better than anyone DLS has faced thus far and that improvement made by DLS from last week to this may not be enough.

I picked Cathedral to win in the pick'em (low confidence), I hope the Spartans can prove me wrong. After all, DLS is my 2nd-favorite team on the planet...
 
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I think DLS will definitely be better than last week but I also think CC is better than SF so it will be interesting.

On Cal high sports, Tennis has an article on how DLS could possibly lose the next 3 games and he makes an interesting comment about CC, saying that this CC team is better than most recent DLS teams...and this CC lost big to Centennial correct? He is not one to downplay DLS so it will be interesting to see the outcome of this game
 
colhenrylives said:
Dear Pasty Person: As a Folsom Fanatic, you should be hoping for DLS to win. If they lose again, a Folsom W vs. Sparta will mean a whole lot less. Even worse, should Folsom lose to DLS under this scenario, oh, the humanity.
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True, but St Francis has already stolen their thunder by already having beaten DLS. Even a Folsom win at this point would be somewhat anticlimactic. They can't brag about being the team who broke the streak, it took an SJS team to do it, etc...They do however,need to do it for the Folsom psyche
 
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remc said:
True, but St Francis has already stolen their thunder by already having beaten DLS. Even a Folsom win at this point would be somewhat anticlimactic. They can't brag about being the team who broke the streak, it took an SJS team to do it, etc...They do however,need to do it for the Folsom psyche
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Not happening. DLS will control the clock and game. Folsom D will not be able to stop them.
folsom will score but I don’t see them beating Folsom.
 
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Jfoyosoul said:
Tennis has an article on how DLS could possibly lose the next 3 games and he makes an interesting comment about CC, saying that this CC team is better than most recent DLS teams...
Click to expand...
Mark Tennis Needs to watch more HSFB…. That was just a Dumb statement…. This SDCC team Could not beat any DLS team other then possibly 2004….

People put too much Stock in that loss to SF…. DLS was a dropped pick 6 and a Fumble on the 5 yard line away from a 14 pint win and they would be 4-0 and ranked #1 in Nor Cal…. They lost by 3 points, it’s not like they were dominated or lost by double digits….

The Reality is DLS just beat the #8 Ranked team in the state by 28 points and the game wasn’t even that close… That is a better win then any other team in Nor Cal Has EXCEPT for SF…. SF should Be #1, DLS#2 and Folsom #3….

Folsom will have their shot in 3 weeks, but until then they should not be the Beneficiary of the work done by SF…. And people as “Knowledgeable” as Mark Tennis should know this….
 
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THEOC89 said:
Mark Tennis Needs to watch more HSFB…. That was just a Dumb statement…. This SDCC team Could not beat any DLS team other then possibly 2004….

People put too much Stock in that loss to SF…. DLS was a dropped pick 6 and a Fumble on the 5 yard line away from a 14 pint win and they would be 4-0 and ranked #1 in Nor Cal…. They lost by 3 points, it’s not like they were dominated or lost by double digits….

The Reality is DLS just beat the #8 Ranked team in the state by 28 points and the game wasn’t even that close… That is a better win then any other team in Nor Cal Has EXCEPT for SF…. SF should Be #1, DLS#2 and Folsom #3….

Folsom will have their shot in 3 weeks, but until then they should not be the Beneficiary of the work done by SF…. And people as “Knowledgeable” as Mark Tennis should know this….
Click to expand...
I was also at the DLS game tonight and was not impressed with SDCC at all.
After being down 14-0 early it was all DLS 49-7. The most impressive and most concerning was how DLS did it. The DB’s were ball hawks with multiple picks and DLS only completed 2/6 passes.
High School football comes down to matchups, if you can’t stop their run game and can’t run the ball on offense, DLS will own you. This of course doesn’t bode well for Folsom, my early prediction DLS 42 Folsom 28 with the outcome never in doubt.
 
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