Interesting dilemma in this conference as MaxPreps shows San Ramon Valley at 11-1 in League including their win over Carondelet and Cal High at 10-1 in League not including their loss last night to Carondelet. And with that, Cal High moves on to the EBAL Championship with a split against SRV because they won the 2nd game which was at home. I understand that Carondelet has some special considerations when they agreed to join the league, but why would SRV not be considered league champion at 11-1 vs. 10-2. Does the game not count? Can someone explain this ruling?
EBAL Standings - Mountain Division
- Thread starter NorCalGBBall22
- Start date
From the EBAL rules:
*** - Carondelet will play a modified EBAL schedule, only playing every team in the league 1 time. Additionally they will not participate in the EBAL championship game and not win a "League Title" but they will receive the automatic bid and 1st place nominations for All League. They will also receive max points towards the all sports award. All EBAL games against Carondelet do not count towards the overall league standings.
I wonder how they were able to pull this off with the rest of the EBAL schools? In any case, with the season they're having, are they a D1 or D2 school this year?
In past years, CLet thoroughly dominated their league opponents and the rest of the EBAL schools were happy to have them step aside and schedule up. This is not something new this season, as their games have not counted towards league standings for the last couple of years.
This year, their games against EBAL teams have been very competitive, with SRV beating them, AV played them to within 1 point, and Cal & MV losing by just 4. They probably should have been a regular league member this year, but it takes years like this to be able to make those decisions.
Carondelet will no doubt be a D1 team for NCS (They are officially D1), as there is no other choice besides Open. If they make the D1 finals (certainly not a given), then they would have beaten some very good teams and would most likely be in NorCal D1, just not a top seed.
According to two coaches in the EBAL I’ve communicated with and one from our league (MVAL) this was not the by law until yesterday afternoon. In other words, the EBAL commissioner added the Carondelet line on the last day of the Regular season. If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt these three coaches, there is a real credibility issue . Perhaps one of the coaches from EBAL can post the rules (by laws) that were in place BEFORE yesterday to prove or disprove the claim.
If true, someone should be fired.
High crimes and misdemeanors? I guess it depends on whether language was added in order to clarify the situation, or if the bylaws were indeed changed last night under cover of darkness in an attempt to change the league standings. Maybe we can get a statement from the Astros owner?
If true that this change was made yesterday prior to the final league games, could explain why MaxPreps included SRV's (11-1) win over Carondelet from earlier in the year as a league victory and excluded the Cal High (10-1) loss to Carondelet last night in their league standings. It just seems like SRV should be credited for their win over Carondelet whether or not Carondelet is effected by the outcome.
A question: The EBAL, I believe, has two divisions. Does that mean the league gets two automatic bids (and first-round home games)? If so, Carondelet gets one and the playoff winner the other.
(And by the way, it's ludicrous that having a home game in the second round of league play should be a tiebreaker. Have the coaches shoot free throws or something ...)
(And by the way, it's ludicrous that having a home game in the second round of league play should be a tiebreaker. Have the coaches shoot free throws or something ...)
No, the winners of each division (AV & Cal) have a playoff tomorrow to determine the EBAL champion. Carondelet still gets the auto bid for NCS and home game that goes with that. SRV will still get a very high seed for NCS D1.
So if SRV goes Open, which is an outside possibility given the stupidity of awarding a league title based on the schedule, or D-1, it will not be a league champ and will likely be on the road for the first game.
Just makes no sense so that the random home and away placement has such a big impact ...
Just makes no sense so that the random home and away placement has such a big impact ...
I think the more arbitrary rule is that a league champion gets first round home court against a higher seeded non-league champion. If they got rid of that, the league championship determination would have a lot less impact.
So Cal High won the league when most on the board thought it would be SRV due to Cal High not being able to win the big one?
Just walked out of the gym after watching Cal high lose again to Carondelet and thought about this post that said Cal high could Not win the big one or their tough schedule prepared them for greatness this season. Full disclosure, my team ( JLHS) just got smacked badly by San Ramon and they made us look bad as I’m sure Cal would beat us too. In other words, Cal can’t win the big games and their schedule did nothing to make them better than last year. If what the cal parents sitting next to me is true, cal has not made it deep into NCS and has not played in a state playoff game. I don’t know that to be true and don’t have time to check but they were pretty certain of it as their daughter was playing tonight for cal . Cal still can’t win the big game and won’t be playing in any state games again . Neither will Logan so I’ll end it there. great game to watch and a gutsy performance by Carondelet. Cal was outplayed and out coached. Again!
Yes this was the first year Cal has ever won an EBAL championship. The school opened in 1975 or so. Great game tonight. Cal trailed the whole game mostly by double figures. Finally took the lead in the 4th quarter. Down 50-46 with a minute left, then narrowed it to 50-49 and had one last chance with an inbound under their own basket with 1 second left but it didn’t fall. Very exciting game and good effort by both teams. Carondelet is not done yet, but if SRV’s 47 point shellacking of CVC tonight was any indication, they will have their hands full Tuesday night.
I was at this game also, and know both teams well. Have coached players on both teams, and against players on both teams. Honestly, the game was dead heat even as verified by the 1 point differential. Impossible to say one team or the other was outplayed or outcoached. If anything, I would say Cal performed pretty close to the top of their potential in that matchup. Cal has a size advantage, but Carondelet has more depth and experience.
If I had to come up with factors that significantly pushed the needle one way or the other I would say they were (1) Cal's initial nervousness which got them in a hole early that they struggled to get out of (think they were down 13 at half time) (2) Carondelet's poor roster management in the third quarter which opened them to a strong run by Cal and a big change in momentum (3) Some very poor officiating in the fourth quarter which seemed to flip Cal's way most of the time.
Two very good teams. Cal didn't fail to win the big one. They lost by the thinnest of margins to a better squad.
I was at the game tonight. It was a fantastic atmosphere. CLET wanted this one bad. They had an incredible gameplan and Morris is one of the best coaches in Norcal. Cal had a great look at the Buzzer to win it but it didn't go. Clets defensive pressure really overwhelmed Cal and their lack of depth really hurt them. Physical game from start to finish. Clet is a very disruptive and fast team. They controlled the pace the majority of the game. Coach Morris has that team playing harder than anyone I've seen this year. Fantastic effort by both teams. #3 Blackard was the difference tonight. 2 way player that dominated on both ends.
Morris has been at CLet for two years and he’s in the convo as phillips, Schepplar, Gonslaves, etc? They beat a very good Cal team by a point...let’s just leave it as a good win!
This looks like a comment for BECOOLPT55 to hate on. I see his logo shining over the Forum now like a batmen emblem and he will leap tall buildings in a single bound to show up and include Coach Morris in the hate along with Phillips, Sopak, and Gonsalves. Ok I'll stop now.
But CLet seems very undermanned this year and Coach Morris has done a great job keeping them focused on what's ahead and not the losses behind them. Those girls play hard.
Of course he's not in that category in terms of body of work. But this season.. with the talent he has... yes he's doing just as good of a job as any of those coaches. If your taking career body of work than you are right. I'm talking this year right now.
He’s got his work cut out for him preparing for SRV on Tuesday. Last night was a nice win in a close game against a team Carondelet has never lost to, but certainly no coaching masterpiece. They lost a double digit lead and were lucky to come away with the road victory. He’s got plenty of time to build his legacy.
A very wise HOF football coach once told me "potential is a fancy word for saying you havent done anything yet"
Seriously how good was Calif this year? They finish up 19-10.
Lots of hype in the preseason for sure (NCP had them ranked ahead of CN in their preseason poll)
But ultimately didnt meet expectations.
And lets not forget with D1 teams MM and Heritage in the OPEN that Calif was really the 5 seed in a true D1 section.
I'd give Calif a "good team" rating but I'm not sure I'd call them "very good"
Seriously how good was Calif this year? They finish up 19-10.
Lots of hype in the preseason for sure (NCP had them ranked ahead of CN in their preseason poll)
But ultimately didnt meet expectations.
And lets not forget with D1 teams MM and Heritage in the OPEN that Calif was really the 5 seed in a true D1 section.
I'd give Calif a "good team" rating but I'm not sure I'd call them "very good"
It’s all relative. This was the first Cal High team ever to win an EBAL title, and though there may be asterisks attached by some as Carondelet’s games didn’t count, it was a very good year for them.
They don’t have the legacy of privates like Carondelet or CN, or even EBAL publics like MV & SRV, but they are finally to the point where they are no longer a laughing stock and good players aren’t looking to transfer to another school.
Cal losing in the NCS quarterfinals can still end up being one of the most successful in school history, whereas Carondelet wins last night’s game and if they lose in the next round ending their season it could still end up being one of the worst seasons in the last 20 years for the Cougars program. It’s all relative.
Cal has been upset in NCS four years in a row by a lower seeded team. Twice to a double digit seed. It is all relative based on how you look at it.
You can call it an upset as Cal was seeded higher, but Carondelet won the first game with them by 4 points and has never lost to Cal. It was certainly not a surprise that the Cougars won that game. It would be surprise if they are able to beat SRV, who they lost to last month. Should be a good game.
In the words of Nancy Pelosi, “A Giant Asterisk”.
Not knowing too much about Cal or Carondelet, I have watched our program slide ( JLHS) and achieve about what it’s capable of with the kids we have. Cheri does a nice job with the group she has but the recent 3 years results are equal to the talent, in my opinion. My point, and what I now see others making as well with more substance , is that Cal has had very good talent. Yet hasn’t had much to show for it. Let’s take the EBAL thing off the table , they should never have been given that opportunity. Someone or a group of someone’s decided to pull a fast one on SRV for some reason.
asterisk applied and I don’t believe anyone with an open and honest mind thinks Cal should have been there instead of the other team. If the Asterisk championship is their legacy, let’s put them is the good team group of underachievers. Carondelet is overachieving this season. Looking at our league and comparing to EBAL , American and MSJ are the new standard of the best. We were once that standard . American and MSJ win in league, they do well in NCS and on occasion make it to the state playoffs. Cal hasn’t done any of those things with the talent group they have. That’s a long pattern of underachieving and dare I say the word “failure” . I don’t mean failure in its literal definition either. They have failed to perform to their potential for four years. That’s what I was meaning to say in my original post.
I read a follow up post that said the teams last night had equally talented players . That’s not accurate at all. Cal had far better players and yet couldn’t beat a less talented team. TWICE THIS SEASON! The problem ,I think , was that Cal didn’t have or wouldn’t play their bench. Carondelet played a lot of their bench. Based on all of the above , I concluded Cal was
Outplayed and out coached . Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers..
No feathers ruffled. No dog in this fight. You can say they are underachievers if it makes you feel better. SRV has better talent, is seeded higher, and would have beaten them at SRV on Tuesday. If Cal had made that last shot to complete the comeback and win, then lost to higher seeded SRV Tuesday, would that still be underachieving? They still wouldn’t have made NorCals.
To be sure I’m answering your question accurately,
IF Cal would have won vs Carondelet then lost to SRV, would I still consider Cal as a “failure” and an underachieving team based on the very talented Moulton and Adams teams of the last four years?
the answer is a definite yes. That means in four years, the Coaching staff and players of Cal high were unable to find a way to win 1 credible league championship, 1 NCS semi final game and play in 1 single Nor Cal game. They deserve recognition for their in season play though, looking at their schedule they won a lot of games.
which brings up my second original point... does getting destroyed by great teams Really make you better and more prepared for post season as someone once stated it would for Cal? Getting destroyed by SMS, Pinewood and others clearly didn’t make them any more prepared or able to win in the post season. One could argue it may have hurt them and stretched their talent too far. Cal has 2-3 really good players but 4-10 ( or whatever) just are not very good or they would play them. That’s a lot of pressure and fatigue for 2-3 players for a season and doesn’t bode well for Cal in the next few years.
Good discussion, thank you for your patience with me. I keep hoping JL will get the big volleyball players back into basketball like years past and regain our titles!
Carondelet really does not have a bad loss. Not sure about their coach being a coaching great but they scheduled a tough non schedule and lost to the teams they should have lost to and beat Cal 2x as underdogs. They have talent and have had a nice season. A win Tuesday would be huge for them.
Cal had 4 strong players this year and 2 not quite as strong players. After that a very steep drop off. Their achievements, considering who they had, who they faced, and where they were 5 years ago when Coach Rodriquez took over, were impressive. Looking forward, 3 of the 6 graduate and the pipeline is problematic. Not empty, but the coaching staff are going to be tested on whether they can develop basketball players versus succeed with talent that is handed to them.
C-let may be in a better spot, but I don't see them returning to former glory any time soon. It's easy for players to go to whatever school they want to these days. So why pay to play when there are higher ranked publics like Miramonte, SRV, and Cal in the area?
I think the allure of going to a prestigious sports school is a factor. Minus this year they’ve always been in the conversation as being one of the best (apparently, this year they have the best coach in NorCal) so people want to be a part of that. Remember it was about 10 years that they went undefeated in EBAL..
As for Cal, Tony (previous coach) doesn’t get enough credit for laying the foundation for that cal program. The started getting them in the right direction hen bounced to the boys side. Cal has had A LOT of talent the last 5-6 years...it’s a shame they haven’t gone farther
Mike is a great coach. On paper Carondelet had no business beating Cal twice in 2 weeks. If you want to use Clets history as a detriment to the current girls go ahead but the truth is he is coaching very little talent this year and their past teams success is storied but doesn't matter to me when judging this current roster.
Tony Khoo is a fantastic coach as well norcal. great point. He's done a great Job at Cal on the boys side despite what his record may show. I hope he gets back into coaching soon. Cal high mens basketball has been a brutal job for over 15 years now. That school has all the resources and support to be successful. Head scratcher
Tony Khoo is a fantastic coach as well norcal. great point. He's done a great Job at Cal on the boys side despite what his record may show. I hope he gets back into coaching soon. Cal high mens basketball has been a brutal job for over 15 years now. That school has all the resources and support to be successful. Head scratcher
Cal men have made the NCS playoffs a handful of times in the past 15 years, but it’s really been a mess since Wilson stepped down. Hopefully the new coach will be able to solidify the program like the girls side has done recently.
My understanding is that Carondelet's JVs were very strong, and I know some talent is heading that way as well ... I don't think it will take long for Carondelet to reassert itself as long as Morris continues to nurture the talent pipeline.
As to the belief that playing good teams helps you get better, I think it's a two-edged sword, and depends on your personnel. On the one hand, playing good teams makes it clear what it takes to be good. Coaches who've talked to me about the West Coast Jamboree have said that losses there have helped them because the girls were able to see that if they had done a few things better -- if they had done what they needed to do more consistently -- they could have won. That's helpful because it gives them reason to believe they can beat good teams.
On the other hand, getting beaten by better teams who are clearly better and would have won no matter what your team did isn't all that helpful, I don't think. Confidence is vital for success in anything, really, and getting blown out by a much better team and losing all (or most) individual matchups can really hurt the confidence of a young team that isn't sure how good it is.
As to the belief that playing good teams helps you get better, I think it's a two-edged sword, and depends on your personnel. On the one hand, playing good teams makes it clear what it takes to be good. Coaches who've talked to me about the West Coast Jamboree have said that losses there have helped them because the girls were able to see that if they had done a few things better -- if they had done what they needed to do more consistently -- they could have won. That's helpful because it gives them reason to believe they can beat good teams.
On the other hand, getting beaten by better teams who are clearly better and would have won no matter what your team did isn't all that helpful, I don't think. Confidence is vital for success in anything, really, and getting blown out by a much better team and losing all (or most) individual matchups can really hurt the confidence of a young team that isn't sure how good it is.
The C-let JV were good, but with three frosh on varsity it's not like any superstars are in the wings. Looks very much like a re-load of more of what they already have. As to talent "heading that way" I am pretty sure that doesn't include anyone from south of Walnut Creek.
Bottom line - they don't return to Open status without at least 2-3 serious division one prospects. How do you make the leap and get that kind of kid to go there again? Maybe if Kelly hangs it up at Miramonte. You want to comment on that?
The C-let JV were good, but with three frosh on varsity it's not like any superstars are in the wings. Looks very much like a re-load of more of what they already have. As to talent "heading that way" I am pretty sure that doesn't include anyone from south of Walnut Creek.
Bottom line - they don't return to Open status without at least 2-3 serious division one prospects. How do you make the leap and get that kind of kid to go there again? Maybe if Kelly hangs it up at Miramonte. You want to comment on that?
I've heard that too...lol Inquiring minds want to know, Clay!
