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Illegal screens epidemic

kiddman32

kiddman32

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Nov 25, 2012
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I almost never complain about the officiating... Maybe question a call here and there, but I haven't yelled at the refs in years... However...

I realize they call illegal screens tightly early in the season, but this year has gotten ridiculous.

It seems a lot of times, guys get this call sometimes when they are far away from the ball handler, not even showing that they intend to set a screen, yet a defender happens to bump into them, and WHISTLE! WTF? Is there some sort of rule change I haven't heard about?
 
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kiddman32 said:
I almost never complain about the officiating... Maybe question a call here and there, but I haven't yelled at the refs in years... However...

I realize they call illegal screens tightly early in the season, but this year has gotten ridiculous.

It seems a lot of times, guys get this call sometimes when they are far away from the ball handler, not even showing that they intend to set a screen, yet a defender happens to bump into them, and WHISTLE! WTF? Is there some sort of rule change I haven't heard about?
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It’s their favorite call. Whether on ball or off they feel like they have to blow the whistle. It’s gotten completely out of hand the last 5 years.
 
Seems like it's twice as bad year as last... Eventually, defenders will figure out they can just sorta brush against offense guys whenever they get close, and draw a whistle.
 
It’s one of the most difficult calls to make on a court because usually it’s a bang bang type call.

It took one year of coaching for me to realize how hard a job referees have. It’s not easy. And it’ll have to be a really bad call for me to get upset.

For me what I look for with a screen, is was the man completely set, when he set the screen. Any sort of extra movement, even away from the ball and I’m calling an illegal screen every time.

Also even though there are set rules. There are referees who have been doing this for so long “their way” that they aren’t going to adjust just because you don’t like their calls.
 
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Blame it on the golden state warriors. they illegal screened themselves to nba titles and that got the attention of the coordinators.

please tell coaches to not call the head tap play. the screener usually comes sprinting full speed to the top of the key, then the anxious point guard starts running toward the screener and BAMMMMM.. you hear the mom start yelling HEEEEYYYY SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURRRRRTTTTTTTTT. so you have to call it. (coaching)

stop running the elevator play from the block. the defender clearly sees the 2 players at the free throw line and they ALWAYS step towards each other as the defender splits them. tell them to START leg to leg or close earlier. either way the defender will have to run into you, or around you. a good shooter only needs a half second. (coaching)

tell the screener to not LEAN, LUNGE, OR HAVE THEIR LEGS OUT LIKE THEY ARE DOING DEAD LIFTS. just stand there. (coaching)

tell the screener back side screens CAN NOT be set unless there is time and distance for the defender. (coaching)

officials get rated based on off ball calls more than on ball calls. if they are looking where they are supposed to, they will catch the team control fouls. (assignors)
 
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ankleassassin said:
Blame it on the golden state warriors. they illegal screened themselves to nba titles and that got the attention of the coordinators.

please tell coaches to not call the head tap play. the screener usually comes sprinting full speed to the top of the key, then the anxious point guard starts running toward the screener and BAMMMMM.. you hear the mom start yelling HEEEEYYYY SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURRRRRTTTTTTTTT. so you have to call it. (coaching)

stop running the elevator play from the block. the defender clearly sees the 2 players at the free throw line and they ALWAYS step towards each other as the defender splits them. tell them to START leg to leg or close earlier. either way the defender will have to run into you, or around you. a good shooter only needs a half second. (coaching)

tell the screener to not LEAN, LUNGE, OR HAVE THEIR LEGS OUT LIKE THEY ARE DOING DEAD LIFTS. just stand there. (coaching)

tell the screener back side screens CAN NOT be set unless there is time and distance for the defender. (coaching)

officials get rated based on off ball calls more than on ball calls. if they are looking where they are supposed to, they will catch the team control fouls. (assignors)
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Had to feel good to get that out!
 
It seems as though this "violation" has become a point of emphasis this year on the court. Never mind the switch with no more one and one anymore but it definitely seems like these "screens" are one of the top points of emphasis for officials this year.
 
I was at a high school game and the officials called four technicals for flopping. Never seen that in high school.
 
To be clear, I'm not talking about the tightly-called plays where someone is actually trying to set a screen...

I am talking about the ones where an offense player happens to be moving some 20-30 feet away for a play, NO intention of setting a screen anytime soon, but bumps a defender or gets bumped by the defender, with no consequence regarding a play, yet the whistle blows.

I am seeing that kind of thing WAY too often.
 
kiddman32 said:
To be clear, I'm not talking about the tightly-called plays where someone is actually trying to set a screen...

I am talking about the ones where an offense player happens to be moving some 20-30 feet away for a play, NO intention of setting a screen anytime soon, but bumps a defender or gets bumped by the defender, with no consequence regarding a play, yet the whistle blows.

I am seeing that kind of thing WAY too often.
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the 3 or 2 officials are not watching the same thing. so yes, they will call something 20 feet away because that is where their primary coverage area is/or their competitive match ups. intent to set the screen has nothing to do with the illegal contact. when you disrupt the RSBQ of any player it is a foul. the defender knocked 20 feet away still is a defender and must recover.

its like football officials who call holding or block in the back when the play is by them. on film. the evaluator sees you miss that and you get a phone call.
 
WhistlersMother said:
NFHS 2023-24 Basketball Points of Emphasis
  1. Uniforms, Equipment and Apparel
  2. Bench Decorum
  3. Throw-Ins – Proper Locations
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These are rules changes. There are also points of emphasis not covered here in these rules changes. What you quote are rule changes not points of emphasis. Each section has their own "points of emphasis". Also each association also has their points of emphasis.
 
shcguy92 said:
These are rules changes. There are also points of emphasis not covered here in these rules changes. What you quote are rule changes not points of emphasis. Each section has their own "points of emphasis". Also each association also has their points of emphasis.
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Good point... see what I did there...
 
ankleassassin said:
the 3 or 2 officials are not watching the same thing. so yes, they will call something 20 feet away because that is where their primary coverage area is/or their competitive match ups. intent to set the screen has nothing to do with the illegal contact. when you disrupt the RSBQ of any player it is a foul. the defender knocked 20 feet away still is a defender and must recover.

its like football officials who call holding or block in the back when the play is by them. on film. the evaluator sees you miss that and you get a phone call.
Click to expand...
I get that, and have always seen calls made when away from the play... but there was actual real contact made. THIS year, I'm seeing calls made when the contact (if there actually was any) was so inconsequential that it should be left alone... and OFTEN. Never saw this happen much, if at all, in previous years.
 
shcguy92 said:
These are rules changes. There are also points of emphasis not covered here in these rules changes. What you quote are rule changes not points of emphasis. Each section has their own "points of emphasis". Also each association also has their points of emphasis.
Click to expand...
That is not true. Those three things are not rule changes. Even before the new frontcourt designated throw in spots there was inconsistency in officials using the proper throw in location.

Those are NFHS points of emphasis for the whole country. There is also a fourth this year for end of game protocols.

Each state may modify rules, such as the shot clock and mercy rules. Illegal screens are not a point of emphasis this year.

In my opinion teaching the setting of, and the using of a screen are the issues. In order to coach this you have to understand the rules regarding screening.

There are a number of reasons for the. perception that more illegal screens are being called. Perhaps some offenses are including more screening, perhaps the players are less skilled, perhaps the coaching hadn’t been as strong or players moving up didn’t receive the proper coaching and finally the games seen may have had better officials on them. The more skilled the official the more illegal screens will be caught. The less skilled officials, primarily on the lower levels will not catch these as often or at all. When a highly skilled official works a freshman or JV game things that may not have been called all year will get a look of bewilderment from players.
 
short17 said:
That is not true. Those three things are not rule changes. Even before the new frontcourt designated throw in spots there was inconsistency in officials using the proper throw in location.

Those are NFHS points of emphasis for the whole country. There is also a fourth this year for end of game protocols.

Each state may modify rules, such as the shot clock and mercy rules. Illegal screens are not a point of emphasis this year.

In my opinion teaching the setting of, and the using of a screen are the issues. In order to coach this you have to understand the rules regarding screening.

There are a number of reasons for the. perception that more illegal screens are being called. Perhaps some offenses are including more screening, perhaps the players are less skilled, perhaps the coaching hadn’t been as strong or players moving up didn’t receive the proper coaching and finally the games seen may have had better officials on them. The more skilled the official the more illegal screens will be caught. The less skilled officials, primarily on the lower levels will not catch these as often or at all. When a highly skilled official works a freshman or JV game things that may not have been called all year will get a look of bewilderment from players.
Click to expand...
Again different associations have varying points of emphasis. My association has focused on screening this year. I know of two others using this as a point of emphasis. So my pont is each association has their own set of emphasis points and I do know two other Bay Area associations are emphasizing the screen this year
Again, each officiating association has their own set of points of emphasis year in and year out.
 
kiddman32 said:
I get that, and have always seen calls made when away from the play... but there was actual real contact made. THIS year, I'm seeing calls made when the contact (if there actually was any) was so inconsequential that it should be left alone... and OFTEN. Never saw this happen much, if at all, in previous years.
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But how often are you actually watching the action away from the ball? Why would you even be looking 30 feet away? Everyone in the gym is watching the ball. Unless your son is the person 30 feet away? So how would you actually know how much contact there was? The crowd often times do not even know the call was off the ball because everyone assumes all 3 officials are watching the ball too.
 
short17 said:
That is not true. Those three things are not rule changes. Even before the new frontcourt designated throw in spots there was inconsistency in officials using the proper throw in location.

Those are NFHS points of emphasis for the whole country. There is also a fourth this year for end of game protocols.

Each state may modify rules, such as the shot clock and mercy rules. Illegal screens are not a point of emphasis this year.

In my opinion teaching the setting of, and the using of a screen are the issues. In order to coach this you have to understand the rules regarding screening.

There are a number of reasons for the. perception that more illegal screens are being called. Perhaps some offenses are including more screening, perhaps the players are less skilled, perhaps the coaching hadn’t been as strong or players moving up didn’t receive the proper coaching and finally the games seen may have had better officials on them. The more skilled the official the more illegal screens will be caught. The less skilled officials, primarily on the lower levels will not catch these as often or at all. When a highly skilled official works a freshman or JV game things that may not have been called all year will get a look of bewilderment from players.
Click to expand...
Yes and yes
 
"But how often are you actually watching the action away from the ball? Why would you even be looking 30 feet away?"

After having the experience of being in the gym for over 5000 HS games, I'm pretty confident that I watch action away from the ball often. Fans in my vicinity often mention to me that I see stuff happen a lot that they admit they didn't see because they were watching the ball.

Of course, I'm far from perfect, but I think I'm way better than the average fan at spotting things away from the ball during game. I think I am able to do that because I try to watch defenses in addition to watching the ball.

So take that for what it's worth...
 
kiddman32 said:
"But how often are you actually watching the action away from the ball? Why would you even be looking 30 feet away?"

After having the experience of being in the gym for over 5000 HS games, I'm pretty confident that I watch action away from the ball often. Fans in my vicinity often mention to me that I see stuff happen a lot that they admit they didn't see because they were watching the ball.

Of course, I'm far from perfect, but I think I'm way better than the average fan at spotting things away from the ball during game. I think I am able to do that because I try to watch defenses in addition to watching the ball.

So take that for what it's worth...
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I don't doubt your knowledge and visits to gyms. But 98% of the time it's watching the ball. That's just normal. Nobody pays 12.00 to watch screening 30 feet away.
 
12 dollars?

Maybe during playoffs…

Anyway, I’ve been thinking about while fighting traffic to get to Stockton for this Monte Vista v. St Mary’s tilt…

I’m not *watching* for the screens, I just have a “wide eye” for the game, at least wider than most.

Anyway, I guess, as pointed out above, the frosh and JV games have less-skilled and experienced players, and often the lower-level officials…. and I see most of this stuff in those games…. I’m too busy attempting to type more often and busily in varsity games, so I can’t say I see this stuff nearly as much in varsity games…

So, while I think the calls are too frequent, I’ll leave it alone.
 
kiddman32 said:
12 dollars?

Maybe during playoffs…

Anyway, I’ve been thinking about while fighting traffic to get to Stockton for this Monte Vista v. St Mary’s tilt…

I’m not *watching* for the screens, I just have a “wide eye” for the game, at least wider than most.

Anyway, I guess, as pointed out above, the frosh and JV games have less-skilled and experienced players, and often the lower-level officials…. and I see most of this stuff in those games…. I’m too busy attempting to type more often and busily in varsity games, so I can’t say I see this stuff nearly as much in varsity games…

So, while I think the calls are too frequent, I’ll leave it alone.
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When they don't call it.. u get the mom screaming someone is going to get hurt.
Damned if you or don't.
 
Only times I've ever heard that particular type of yelling was in REALLY rough games, with lots of banging, crashing, falling, etc.

I'm definitely not talking about those.
 
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