The Biden Administration is making it clear that, for all practical purposes, boys who declare they are girls should be allowed to compete in athletic events as females. Feminists everywhere should be up in arms. After decades of work to achieve some solid measure of sports equality, we now are faced with a movement that essentially goes the other way entirely. Amazing. So much for "progressive" thinking.
A delicate subject
- Thread starter colhenrylives
- Start date
Though I disagree with the move, it 's likely to have almost no impact.
For a long time, the CIF rule was if a school only offered a sport for one gender, then a person of the other gender who wanted to play was allowed to. (The thinking was football and wrestling ...)
But the sport that would have felt the impact was volleyball, as many schools had only girls' volleyball teams at the time. There was a lot of loose talk about boys taking over the sport by playing on the girls' team, but it never happened -- and there are a lot more athletic boys in a given high school than girls who used to be boys.
About 3% of teens identify as transgender, and it appears more want to go girl to boy than the other way -- so say 2% of a high school population is transgender girl to boy (g-b). In a 2,000 student school (which is large here), there would be four girl to boy transgender students. Most transgender kids are not achievers, but let's say three of those four g-b transformations wants to play a girls' sport. Let's say two of them are good enough to shift the balance in their sports.
So one g-b plays volleyball and is all-league, and another plays soccer and is all-league. Now based on what we've seen before, it's likely neither will participate, but one might -- which will not, I don't think, really change things.
That said, it is an issue, and hopefully down the road what they'll do is say that a g-b can only play an interscholastic sport by appealing and getting a waiver. For example, I don't think a 5-4, 120-pound g-b will make much difference on the basketball team, so why not? But that 6-3 kid with big shoulders on volleyball? Not allowed.
The whole transgender issue is an odd one, and hardly worth the energy we bring to it ... we've a lot more important things to worry about.
For a long time, the CIF rule was if a school only offered a sport for one gender, then a person of the other gender who wanted to play was allowed to. (The thinking was football and wrestling ...)
But the sport that would have felt the impact was volleyball, as many schools had only girls' volleyball teams at the time. There was a lot of loose talk about boys taking over the sport by playing on the girls' team, but it never happened -- and there are a lot more athletic boys in a given high school than girls who used to be boys.
About 3% of teens identify as transgender, and it appears more want to go girl to boy than the other way -- so say 2% of a high school population is transgender girl to boy (g-b). In a 2,000 student school (which is large here), there would be four girl to boy transgender students. Most transgender kids are not achievers, but let's say three of those four g-b transformations wants to play a girls' sport. Let's say two of them are good enough to shift the balance in their sports.
So one g-b plays volleyball and is all-league, and another plays soccer and is all-league. Now based on what we've seen before, it's likely neither will participate, but one might -- which will not, I don't think, really change things.
That said, it is an issue, and hopefully down the road what they'll do is say that a g-b can only play an interscholastic sport by appealing and getting a waiver. For example, I don't think a 5-4, 120-pound g-b will make much difference on the basketball team, so why not? But that 6-3 kid with big shoulders on volleyball? Not allowed.
The whole transgender issue is an odd one, and hardly worth the energy we bring to it ... we've a lot more important things to worry about.
Wouldn't 2 percent of a 2,000-student school be 40 pupils?
Where this issue gets really dicey is when it impacts individual sports (track and field, swimming, etc.). Biological women who must compete against transgender males (or males who prefer to be seen as females) are at a distinct disadvantage.
OK, I wasn't a math major -- but my error spurred me to do further research.
First, there's a distinction between identifying as transgender and actually completing the treatment to do so. So even if 20 students in a school identify as female and are biologically male, the question then becomes how many have completed the hormone treatment that would give them an athletic advantage if they competed as girls.
Second, the age of consent for such transitions is 16 (with rare cases at 14 or 15). So if hormone therapy is considered a sign of "identification," then it means at most the male to female athlete will have two years of competition, most likely one.
Third, to repeat, boys could have played girls' volleyball at many schools in California for years and never did so. They didn't even have to formally "identify."
Fourth, so how many boys will formally "identify" as females in order to participate in a girls' sport? Given the gender insecurity in that age group, I'm guessing close to zero.
So I will stick by my original number of one or two maximum, though again, I don't think there's any reason to think that girls' teams will be flooded by boys who have transformed themselves into girls. That could have happened in the not too recent past, and didn't.
First, there's a distinction between identifying as transgender and actually completing the treatment to do so. So even if 20 students in a school identify as female and are biologically male, the question then becomes how many have completed the hormone treatment that would give them an athletic advantage if they competed as girls.
Second, the age of consent for such transitions is 16 (with rare cases at 14 or 15). So if hormone therapy is considered a sign of "identification," then it means at most the male to female athlete will have two years of competition, most likely one.
Third, to repeat, boys could have played girls' volleyball at many schools in California for years and never did so. They didn't even have to formally "identify."
Fourth, so how many boys will formally "identify" as females in order to participate in a girls' sport? Given the gender insecurity in that age group, I'm guessing close to zero.
So I will stick by my original number of one or two maximum, though again, I don't think there's any reason to think that girls' teams will be flooded by boys who have transformed themselves into girls. That could have happened in the not too recent past, and didn't.
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2,000 is a large school, so the number in question is inflated for the vast majority of schools in Norcal.
she would have to be interested in playing sports--many kids find interests other than sports in high school. I'd guess a transitioning kid would have personal and social concerns that would come before playing sports.
she would have to be interested in the sport you're concerned about.
she'd have to be good at the sport you're concerned about.
in other words, "one or two maximum" is almost always "zero".
feminists probably have a lot of more important things to be up in arms about. I can't speak for them, or prescribe their priorities.
of course, colonel, you are free to be up in arms about whatever you want.
personally, I prefer progressive over regressive.
2,000 is a large school, so the number in question is inflated for the vast majority of schools in Norcal.
she would have to be interested in playing sports--many kids find interests other than sports in high school. I'd guess a transitioning kid would have personal and social concerns that would come before playing sports.
she would have to be interested in the sport you're concerned about.
she'd have to be good at the sport you're concerned about.
in other words, "one or two maximum" is almost always "zero".
feminists probably have a lot of more important things to be up in arms about. I can't speak for them, or prescribe their priorities.
of course, colonel, you are free to be up in arms about whatever you want.
personally, I prefer progressive over regressive.
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Not sure I understand your post. It's not hormone therapy that gives mtf an athletic advantage, it's the absence of hormone therapy because their bodies are still producing more testosterone than female athletes. Hormone therapy would increase estrogen/reduce testosterone which would narrow the advantage
The hormone therapy would of course mitigate some of the male advantage -- I referred to it only as a signal of "identification." In other words, if you don't begin hormone therapy, maybe you haven't committed to it fully enough to want to compete as a girl. Or not, of course.
So here's my thought:
High school sports is a privilege, and access to sports is affected by such things as grades, passing a physical, etc.
So, eligibility for a boy transitioning to a girl would depend on this: Once hormone treatments have begun, then the student would be eligible for girls' sports. Prior to that process beginning, access to interscholastic sports would be limited to boys' sports.
And of course there would be an appeal process.
High school sports is a privilege, and access to sports is affected by such things as grades, passing a physical, etc.
So, eligibility for a boy transitioning to a girl would depend on this: Once hormone treatments have begun, then the student would be eligible for girls' sports. Prior to that process beginning, access to interscholastic sports would be limited to boys' sports.
And of course there would be an appeal process.
If you are following the situation in Connecticut, you can well imagine the same thing happening here. It's a track and field case that bears on this topic in a significant way.
Track and field might be the most interesting area ... Castor Semenya, the 880 champion, has naturally occurring high testosterone and has been banned at times. I think this might be a little easier to control at the high school level, but it's a political land mine, so my guess schools and CIF ignore it as long as possible.
Sooner or later, CIF will have to deal with this issue. In a state of 40 million souls, it's inevitable.
Semenya is a unique case. She may be "intersex", term formerly referred to as "Hermaphrodite", that is neither male nor female but possessing sex organs of both sexes. Must be a difficult life.
Does anyone know of the rationale given, by the folks that support transgender "boys to girls" competing against naturally born girls? Can you imagine watching your daughter getting knocked out by a transgender girl, that was born a male?
I just don't think it will be an issue. It wasn't for boys and girls volleyball, and I don't see it here. The whole trans thing is much more a cultural flashpoint than a significant issue.
I could be wrong, of course, and we could see girls' sports flooded by trans boys or boys who say they're girls so they can mess up the system, but it just seems unlikely given the social nature of high school.
I could be wrong, of course, and we could see girls' sports flooded by trans boys or boys who say they're girls so they can mess up the system, but it just seems unlikely given the social nature of high school.
i agree... there arent many boys who are going to be bragging they won a state title. on the girls team. unless those boys are really really feminine. then they probably arent the best athletes anyway. i hope i did not offend anyone. thoughts and prayers.
according to some/alot on here... the girls are better than the boys anyway. so shouldnt boys be worried?
This thread probably has ran its course. It is an interesting discussion and one that has taken place other places than this board, but all who have wanted to share their points have done so.
