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Competitive Equity

This is a well thought out opinion about a complicated issue. I think Open, I and II will be very good fields and it will be interesting to see new playoff matchups. I think 3-5 will see a severe dropoff in play. The CIF has used AAU as teams want to play in the top brackets there, but then try to get out of the Open Division during the HS season. To turn that around, the attention of a fourth or fifth bracket in an AAU event gets no attention outside of family and friends. I think it will be similar at the state finals this year.
 
The last 2 or 3 years there has been a severe drop off in the lower divisions during the state title games.
 
I think it is going to get worse. As the article alluded to, you won't have a St. Pats in D4 or a Mission in D3. Both of these teams would have moved up.

On the girls side, West Campus (D4) and Eastside (D5) would have been D1 teams if competitive equity was around.
 
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observer22 said:
I think that’s the whole idea. To put all of the good teams in the Open and Division 1, and let them battle it out.
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What a disaster, no reason to watch lower division games at all. Would be embarrassing for the 2000 student .500 team that wins a "state championship" to hang that banner in their gym for being the 140th best team in the state
 
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Does anyone know if there will be a limit on teams from certain sections for Norcals. For instance would they allow say 7-8 teams from NCS for Division 1 in norcals? Used to be 4 per section per division for NCS / SJS during NorCal seedings.
 
It's just stupid now. The D 4 or D 5 "State Champion" is going to be a Power D and E Division State title. I would love to see all of the norcal teams just not enter (which they absolutely can do). CIF loses all the money and then they go back to the regular was as this was a southern Cal initiative that the north did not want. It will make Socal win almost all of them. CIF is a terrible organization in regards to their hypocrisies. Just look at Football.
 
da real said:
Why continue to call d2 thru d5 "state titles"? Why pretend?
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Great question. I remember back when there weren’t all these divisions. NCS had 2 champions and CCS had 1. The current 6 divisions did not always exist. Of course we all know the reason for all the expansion and trophies for everyone, $$$.
 
To be fair, California, with 40 million people, is so large, so diverse, so spread out, it's really a separate nation, more populous than Canada, for one. So one prep basketball division does not make much sense, especially if you factor in the public vs. private/parochial issue _ total apples and oranges, if you will. The real question should be: How many divisions to create? That's a tough one. It's entirely debatable. But just a single division won't work in a state this huge. It's not Montana or Iowa.
 
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colhenrylives said:
40 million people, is so large, so diverse, so spread out,
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Why would that stop a state wide tournament for the real champion? We know who the best teams are. If they want to give public schools a shot, than create three divisions. Public, private and open.

I also think the games should be held in southern California every other year. Nor cal teams have a huge advantage playing so close to home. And the games should be played in college arenas.
 
SmoothJay said:
What a disaster, no reason to watch lower division games at all. Would be embarrassing for the 2000 student .500 team that wins a "state championship" to hang that banner in their gym for being the 140th best team in the state
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I don't disagree, but the 2000 student body probably doesn't know the difference between division 1 and division 4 and why their school is playing in division 4. They're just enjoying the moment of winning a D4 title. Students and players can't control how the playoffs are setup, but when they get there, they're going to be proud of their accomplishments. We as prep basketball junkies are the ones complaining it's watered down....not the school and students of the schools, which are the who the players are playing for.
 
colhenrylives said:
To be fair, California, with 40 million people, is so large, so diverse, so spread out, it's really a separate nation, more populous than Canada, for one. So one prep basketball division does not make much sense, especially if you factor in the public vs. private/parochial issue _ total apples and oranges, if you will. The real question should be: How many divisions to create? That's a tough one. It's entirely debatable. But just a single division won't work in a state this huge. It's not Montana or Iowa.
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My solution is if you have a player/players on your team that is/are signed/committed to a D1 school, he must play with blindfolded or with his dominant hand tied behind his back. Equity will be re-established.
 
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What a train wreck! The old system while not perfect is eons better than this competitive equity fiasco! Possibly a hybrid system which bumps the private schools up 2-3 weight classes would help level the playing field a bit with the publics.
 
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Jaw Knee said:
I don't disagree, but the 2000 student body probably doesn't know the difference between division 1 and division 4 and why their school is playing in division 4. They're just enjoying the moment of winning a D4 title. Students and players can't control how the playoffs are setup, but when they get there, they're going to be proud of their accomplishments. We as prep basketball junkies are the ones complaining it's watered down....not the school and students of the schools, which are the who the players are playing for.
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I agree with Jaw Knee. The kids don’t nitpick like we do. A State championship is a state championship.
There are so many ways to look at this thing. I do know that the North Section used to win state titles in the upper divisions 20 plus years ago.
This was before the proliferation of the privates, building up there basketball programs. The worst case for awhile, was Price. They had 15 students and 12 of them played basketball. This eventually did help them build their school profile and they grew from it. Soooo?

Now it would take a divine intervention for a small public up here, to win state again.


Here's wishing you great hoops
 
Not a fan of competitive equity concept. I would like to sees something like the following, basically outlined like this:

Section Playoffs
Private Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Private School Section Championship in each Division - no Open Division - strictly by school size
Public Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Public School Section Championship in each Division - no Open Division - strictly by school size
Private School Champ Plays Public School Champion for Section Championship in each Division

NorCal So Cal and State Playoffs to Get to Final Four
Private Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Private School Nor Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Public Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Public School Nor Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Private Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Private School So Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Public Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Public School So Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Probably Take the Top 8 Schools in all Divisions (maybe 10 in the upper divisions and give 1-6 a buy with 7-10 playing in outbracket games) and consider taking 4or 6 in the lower divisions that have less schools and only take top 4 for the Open Division

Final Four Championship By Division
In each Division, Nor Cal Public School Champ Plays So Cal Public School Champ for State Public School Championship
In each Division, Nor Cal Private School Champ Plays So Cal Private School Champ for State Private School Championship
In each Division, winner of the two games above play for State Championship
 
I actually think the Competitive Equity system makes a small amount of sense but would work a lot better IF:

1) Nobody can drop more than one division below their "natural" one based on school size, ie No division 1 school can be placed below Division 2, no d2 school below d3, with the exception that divisions below d3 must stay in their division (or go to Open in those rare cases like St. Joe's last year). This would prevent the ludicrous scenario of some 10-16 d1 school dropping down to d5 and having a good look at a title, along with my idea in point #2.

2) There still needs to be some minimum performance level, such as winning more games than they lose AND finishing in the top half of their league in order to be playoff-eligible.

I think these ideas would stop such silly possibilities as, say, Concord dropping wayyy down, getting a bit hot, and meeting Head-Royce or somebody of the ilk for the d-5 NorCal title...


Another idea:

I actually liked the old pre-Open setup where teams could request a drop or rise on their own at the START of the season, **IF** they had added one thing to the rules to prevent the constant up-and-down ploy that *some* teams would use. If a school moves up, it's not a one-year deal, but a 4-year commitment. Go up cuz of one expected huge year, ya live with it for three more years after. This could even probably even be done *with* an Open division...
 
laidbackcoach said:
Not a fan of competitive equity concept. I would like to sees something like the following, basically outlined like this:

Section Playoffs
Private Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Private School Section Championship in each Division - no Open Division - strictly by school size
Public Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Public School Section Championship in each Division - no Open Division - strictly by school size
Private School Champ Plays Public School Champion for Section Championship in each Division

NorCal So Cal and State Playoffs to Get to Final Four
Private Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Private School Nor Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Public Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Public School Nor Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Private Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Private School So Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Public Schools Divided Up by Size of school Play for Public School So Cal Championship in each Division - including an Open Division
Probably Take the Top 8 Schools in all Divisions (maybe 10 in the upper divisions and give 1-6 a buy with 7-10 playing in outbracket games) and consider taking 4or 6 in the lower divisions that have less schools and only take top 4 for the Open Division

Final Four Championship By Division
In each Division, Nor Cal Public School Champ Plays So Cal Public School Champ for State Public School Championship
In each Division, Nor Cal Private School Champ Plays So Cal Private School Champ for State Private School Championship
In each Division, winner of the two games above play for State Championship
Click to expand...

As I said in a post awhile ago, New York went to a public and private setup when the privates started raiding public high school gyms in the lates sixties.
They now have seperate championships. The winner of the public, and privates, then meet for a final championship.
Here's wishing you great hoops
 
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