I know they had high hopes that Diaz-Infante could lead Bellarmine back into relevance but after the near completion of his 2nd season it looks like the Bells will have a combined record of either (2-18)/(3-17)/or(4-16). With the lower levels in absolute chaos also, how long does Diaz-Infante get (either by choice or getting fired) to turn the program around? It seems from an outsiders perspective that Bellarmine has conceded its football program for the forseeable future. And dont drop the programs ebb and flow argument because this is not ebbing, this is a complete crash.
Diaz-Infante (Bellarmine)
- Thread starter LWinslow1973
- Start date
The Bells have not gone winless since 1936. FDR was in the White House trying to control the Great Depression at that time. Diaz Infante has his own version of a total collapse to handle. The prognosis is not good. It's a full-on mess in College Park.
Interesting take on the topic. Do coaches not have the responsibility of being part of the process by which talent comes to the school. I do not know enough about Diaz-Infante's coaching ability to judge his X's and O's but the talent drain is at least a small part his responsibility.
I don't know about that situation. But I watch a team that 90% of the teams they play have better athletes. Yet they've in the playoffs every year.
It's a group effort. The coach may be part of it but it's way bigger than him.
When Serra amped up the recruitment/enticement/encouragement (I know people get caught up in the specific language, it's ultimately getting better players on campus) it was a combination of admin being on board, street agents from pop warner coaches all the way down to referees encouraging the best kids to head over to Serra.
And there is money involved. Not direct payment to players but money flowing into the program in general to pay for all the extras and eye candy (unis, weight room upgrade, pig roasts, etc)
They copied the blueprint that others had used for decades and added the polynesian cultural appropriation piece for good measure. Now, Bellarmine and really anyone who wants to win in the WCAL, has to utilize some version of that process or get left in the dust.
Ugly or not, your rivals decided it was worth it long ago. So you either get hustling or get into the BVAL. My two cents.
Bellarmine has tremendous facilties, resources, and on the train line. No they dont need to leave the WCAL! School has probably top 3 richest endowments in HS for all of NorCal. They can field a powerhouse! Maybe they need to recruit a coach outside of the Bells frat house. I am sure Serra or De La Salle top assistant or pluck a coordinator from one of the SoCal powers (Trinity League) could fix the program quickly.
I don't think a Trinity League assistant is going to head north to pay $3,000 in rent a month. And I don't think it will be a quick fix.
With loss to Mitty Friday, Bells are now 0-9. That's the most defeats in a single season in school history. A loss next week to SHC would mark the first winless season in 88 years. The very idea of a Bellarmine varsity football team going 0-9, let alone 0-10, was unthinkable not all that long ago. This is truly the absolute bottom of the Bellarmine barrel.
SI went out of their alumni frat house and hired a complete outsider. Look at how thats worked out.
Yes. It's a question of trustee/administrative priority. If football is seen as an important part of a school's big picture, then hiring a high-quality head coach is a given. If not, well, you can see the results right out there in the public domain. One key note about Bellarmine, however: Enrollment there does not appear to be affected by the drastic decline in the football program's fortunes. As for Bellarmine's endowment portfolio (alumni and others donating to the school), that is unclear.
Maybe... But if a coach was replaced because "he doesn't get enough talent", it would raise a BIG red flag, even at a private school.
Long time board reader/poster from back in the day when it all started. Many fun nights following scores and playoff predictions and opinions of many famous posters. I do have a take on the Bellarmine/WCAL situation that clarifies the uncertainty that is out there among readers. I am still deeply involved in WCAL sports and musings. The football situation is an evolution that is worthy of a 30 for 30 on ESPN or a book for that matter. For sure a YouTube podcast type video going into more depth could be warranted. It is fascinating to me. I will save the lengthy preamble for another time and cut to the chase.
Football was dying just a few years ago. Safety issues. Numbers dropping. Moms not happy at all about their boys playing. It might have been a smart bet to not try and build a program up when this barbaric sport might not even be around after one more CTE lawsuit. But the sport has rebounded. Equipment safer. Coaches adopting new practice and teaching styles. It seems to be thriving now. So as it turns out, making the traditional investment in football success to drive school success was a pretty good bet.
Patrick Walsh was building a program at Serra. Doing amazing things. He brilliantly courted the Polynesian community. Played the long game. Obviously it was an amazing success. Patrick deserves all the credit...but part of his vision was having a school buy in and support him via admissions and financial aid. Again...smashing success. 25% of Serra's student body plays FB. Do the math. That is 6 or 7 FB guys in every class taught on campus. Staggering.
Tuition high...close to $30,000 at these schools. Bodies are needed to fill schools. Not the chummy, friendly, united WCAL anymore. Schools fighting for survival. Business decisions in the upper echelons are made....get in or not.
Si builds a junior high school and students matriculate to SI. Affordable options exist due to commitment from admin wing. They break the long standing teacher/coach model and bring in a guy with Mater Dei and USC experience. They are in it for the long run.
Riordan hires a well known coach and takes close to 20 transfers and does the same in basketball. Need to find a way to stay solvent. They go coed. Boarding options. Can they keep it up? I hear of rumblings
SH dips into East Bay. They are young and talented. 20 soph on varsity and 20 more on JV. Decisions are being made. That has often been the SH secret sauce. But they are not willing to be left behind in the City
SF has two perfect coaches in the wings on campus while others struggle with the transition from long time coaches. They dip into Pop Warner world and hire parents who coach those teams. Players follow. Admin on board. Millions invested in facilities. To me the Pop Warner decision and the perfect, traditional, Lancer alums coaching is their secret sauce
VC has a unique and successful financial aid program. After losing kids fleeing Covid for a couple years, they pull lots of south county talent. All these teams are huge upfront. Simple physics. 300lb will handle 180lb
Mitty has some unfortunate luck with coaching transitions and seems to be on solid ground now, except small on the lines. Skill guys are good and actually pretty young. Will they jump in the game? Clock is ticking.
Bells so far refusing to take that step. I am sure coaches are urging them to. Coach should have some clout in situation being a successful, HOF alum. Who knows?
These are business decisions made above FB coaches. Stay in the game or not. I do think it is limited to WCAL world though. Rest of CCS still succeeds with the same equation that we all grew up with. It is the size of the WCAL teams that is off the charts. You either get those guys or you don't. Admissions involved. Financial aid involved. Support by community involved. Sort of an arms race with lots of intrigue
Football was dying just a few years ago. Safety issues. Numbers dropping. Moms not happy at all about their boys playing. It might have been a smart bet to not try and build a program up when this barbaric sport might not even be around after one more CTE lawsuit. But the sport has rebounded. Equipment safer. Coaches adopting new practice and teaching styles. It seems to be thriving now. So as it turns out, making the traditional investment in football success to drive school success was a pretty good bet.
Patrick Walsh was building a program at Serra. Doing amazing things. He brilliantly courted the Polynesian community. Played the long game. Obviously it was an amazing success. Patrick deserves all the credit...but part of his vision was having a school buy in and support him via admissions and financial aid. Again...smashing success. 25% of Serra's student body plays FB. Do the math. That is 6 or 7 FB guys in every class taught on campus. Staggering.
Tuition high...close to $30,000 at these schools. Bodies are needed to fill schools. Not the chummy, friendly, united WCAL anymore. Schools fighting for survival. Business decisions in the upper echelons are made....get in or not.
Si builds a junior high school and students matriculate to SI. Affordable options exist due to commitment from admin wing. They break the long standing teacher/coach model and bring in a guy with Mater Dei and USC experience. They are in it for the long run.
Riordan hires a well known coach and takes close to 20 transfers and does the same in basketball. Need to find a way to stay solvent. They go coed. Boarding options. Can they keep it up? I hear of rumblings
SH dips into East Bay. They are young and talented. 20 soph on varsity and 20 more on JV. Decisions are being made. That has often been the SH secret sauce. But they are not willing to be left behind in the City
SF has two perfect coaches in the wings on campus while others struggle with the transition from long time coaches. They dip into Pop Warner world and hire parents who coach those teams. Players follow. Admin on board. Millions invested in facilities. To me the Pop Warner decision and the perfect, traditional, Lancer alums coaching is their secret sauce
VC has a unique and successful financial aid program. After losing kids fleeing Covid for a couple years, they pull lots of south county talent. All these teams are huge upfront. Simple physics. 300lb will handle 180lb
Mitty has some unfortunate luck with coaching transitions and seems to be on solid ground now, except small on the lines. Skill guys are good and actually pretty young. Will they jump in the game? Clock is ticking.
Bells so far refusing to take that step. I am sure coaches are urging them to. Coach should have some clout in situation being a successful, HOF alum. Who knows?
These are business decisions made above FB coaches. Stay in the game or not. I do think it is limited to WCAL world though. Rest of CCS still succeeds with the same equation that we all grew up with. It is the size of the WCAL teams that is off the charts. You either get those guys or you don't. Admissions involved. Financial aid involved. Support by community involved. Sort of an arms race with lots of intrigue
Addict...you are an original OG. You have seen it all too. Football is different. If a hoops team is winning by 40, coaches empty benches and everyone gets some minutes and nobody gets hurt. Same in most other sports. Plus in most other sports 1 or 2 kids can dominate and the rest of the team can actually not be great. FB needs 11 guys doing their job every play or it can get ugly. Only as strong as your weakest link. Plus garbage time is when you cringe every play about your kid getting hurt when the. game is not in doubt. The size difference is highly visible and it is simple physics. To go through a 7 game WCAL schedule is a big task unless you have the big bodies. Big bodies are the business decision and everyone has to find the way that works for them. But not getting on board is a serious mistake IMO. These schools need healthy FB programs. Creates a great atmosphere if the size balances out. Then coaches can coach and scheme and condition and try and get to the top. No size. No chance. No fun. And the size just does not walk in the front door with their checkbooks.
If you see what’s going on in college with the transfer portal, one of the primary reasons is because “y” school is willing to pay the player more than “x” school. Transfers are financially motivated. So unless you live under a rock or are that naive to think players are transferring to say, Riordan, because of “brotherhood” and not because of money… then bless your heart.
Riordan doesn’t have unlimited cash. That would be SI. Do not be surprised if SI starts bringing in 10-20 athletic transfers.
Riordan doesn’t have any transfers this year. The 2027 (11) and 2028 (3) players are making contributions.
Last edited:
This post was not intended at all to impune Diaz-Infante, many believed he would be able to turn it around and just watching the product on the field that did not seem likely. I do agree with you that this will require Bellarmine to completely revamp its entire approach and I am not sure that they are built to do that. Great analysis by you though..
Man all these years I could swear I heard Privates didn't recruit. lol
You heard right - however, I am seeing more recruiting-type language than ever before. And not just from Privates, but Publics as well.
You and I both remember when you even mentioned a preferred school to attend due to a sport was considered recruiting. Now it seems the standards, at least from that strict stance, have relaxed. The Trinity Schools upset the apple cart on that front for California. Now it seem to be less about language and more about technical rules of transfers and recruiting.
If Bellarmine wanted to win more than just compete. They could create an on-campus job for the coach. On campus job, camps, clinics. I am sure they can make a solid package offering for a historic catholic school
My take is only regarding basketball because that's my jam... But it sorta applies to all sports. Here we go:
Gone are the days when a team just has tryouts with whomever is there and tries to compete. I'm sure this happens some places, but it rarely successful anymore.
It depends what you mean by the term "recruiting".
1) Legal recruiting that should never get you into trouble, like talking to kids during the summer (pref. before their freshman year) is fine. Having camps sponsored by your school (and talking to kids) is fine. (unless funny business occurs)
2) Coaching an AAU team (or summer football, passing leagues, etc.) and getting out-of-area kids to come to your school is shaky, better watch your step carefully.
3) Giving financial aid CAN be shaky, especially if it is found out that non-athletes don't seem to be getting financial aid, red flag...
4) Offering athletic scholarships, a BIG non-no.
Biggest problem with this stuff is negotiating any gray areas.
Gone are the days when a team just has tryouts with whomever is there and tries to compete. I'm sure this happens some places, but it rarely successful anymore.
It depends what you mean by the term "recruiting".
1) Legal recruiting that should never get you into trouble, like talking to kids during the summer (pref. before their freshman year) is fine. Having camps sponsored by your school (and talking to kids) is fine. (unless funny business occurs)
2) Coaching an AAU team (or summer football, passing leagues, etc.) and getting out-of-area kids to come to your school is shaky, better watch your step carefully.
3) Giving financial aid CAN be shaky, especially if it is found out that non-athletes don't seem to be getting financial aid, red flag...
4) Offering athletic scholarships, a BIG non-no.
Biggest problem with this stuff is negotiating any gray areas.
But there's an irony in this state: People outside a school can pay kids for NIL without any hint of a penalty. It's fine with CIF. A coach can't do it. But an alum, friend, relative, etc. can. It's a wild world out there.
I guess, don't think I've ever heard any specific cases of that happening...
