Folsom Rule?
- Thread starter parkdale
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Supposedly, Folsom complained some years that they couldn't get past DLS in the playoffs and lobbied for a rule change that might give them the chance to get to a state bowl without having to beat DLS in the NorCal playoffs.
This is heavily disputed, especially by Folsom fans. But there were changes made. IMHO, it was more about having more top NorCal teams get to State Bowls than giving Folsom a chance to "miss" DLS.
So, it's kinda murky.
This is heavily disputed, especially by Folsom fans. But there were changes made. IMHO, it was more about having more top NorCal teams get to State Bowls than giving Folsom a chance to "miss" DLS.
So, it's kinda murky.
It should be noted that when it came to a vote, all 10 CIF sections voted to eliminate the Open regional games.
While there remains three top divisions in NorCal that could conceivably lay claim to having the NorCal Open rep, there rarely has been much question as to who that should be anyway, particularly in recent years where the top teams have been facing off in non-league action.
In the south, however, the Southern Section laid any question about the SoCal Open rep moot by its restructuring of its playoffs. The SS D-I champ is the king of the region (and lately the state overall) with no real challenges from any other regional section.
Despite some whimpering from some fans who can't just let it go (or have vendettas against Folsom), there is no real possibility of a Open regional game returning due to the SoCal structure and the fact that you can't have different rules for the two regions. Several teams/sections from both NorCal and SoCal have benefited from this rule change.
While there remains three top divisions in NorCal that could conceivably lay claim to having the NorCal Open rep, there rarely has been much question as to who that should be anyway, particularly in recent years where the top teams have been facing off in non-league action.
In the south, however, the Southern Section laid any question about the SoCal Open rep moot by its restructuring of its playoffs. The SS D-I champ is the king of the region (and lately the state overall) with no real challenges from any other regional section.
Despite some whimpering from some fans who can't just let it go (or have vendettas against Folsom), there is no real possibility of a Open regional game returning due to the SoCal structure and the fact that you can't have different rules for the two regions. Several teams/sections from both NorCal and SoCal have benefited from this rule change.
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Speaking of the folsom rule.... It comes to bite them this year right?
Here is how I see the rest of year playing out.
Folsom will run the table the rest of the way winning league, SJS D1, and then end up playing maybe a Pitt in the Norcal champ? Folsom will then play in the everybody gets a trophy D1aa game which has been Folsom motto. The loss to Serra basically ruined their season.
DLS will run the table and win Open D1 NCS and get bid to OPEN State Champ in which MD will lay a punishment like never seen before.
Here is how I see the rest of year playing out.
Folsom will run the table the rest of the way winning league, SJS D1, and then end up playing maybe a Pitt in the Norcal champ? Folsom will then play in the everybody gets a trophy D1aa game which has been Folsom motto. The loss to Serra basically ruined their season.
DLS will run the table and win Open D1 NCS and get bid to OPEN State Champ in which MD will lay a punishment like never seen before.
D-1A
At this point, there is a strong chance that they'll play the CCS D-Open winner in D-1A. The NCS D-1 winner will probably play at the CS D-1 winner if it is Clovis East in D-1AA. Due to common opponent (Serra), Folsom would be behind either St. Francis or St. Ignatius from the CCS.
Despite the fact that Folsom holds rankings/ratings advantages over the CCS teams, it appears that both the NCS D-1/Open and CCS D-I/Open may be stronger brackets than SJS D-I. Cal-Hi probably won't switch them, but it could happen on Calpreps.
Folsom and Clovis East are about even on Calpreps, but I'm not really sure in which division the Timberwolves will be playing. They're listed as D-II, which means they could be moved up to D-I. However, the CS is hosting two D-I brackets. I looked on the CS website and it shows the divisions, but not how they'd be determined. D-IAA is the top 8, then D-IA is the next 8? Or is it the 8 largest, then the next 8 largest? Either way, the CS bracket for Clovis East could still be stronger than SJS D-I. Cal-Hi would not switch their rankings, but that may not matter, especially after last year with Clovis North.
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The bottom line of the “Folsom Rule” is that we no longer have a playoff to determine NorCal’s best team. The top ranked team automatically goes to the Open championship, while all other teams have to get through a NorCal playoff game for a shot at a bowl game.
Yup. Folsom picked a bad time to lay an egg against Serra. They are going to blast thru the rest of the season.
At least the rest of regular season and SJS DI playoffs. We will see who they are paired up with for RBG and, if successful, SBG
I would be shocked if Folsom has a game within 21 points the rest of the season including bowl games. (this assumes they are not going to open)
I'm not a Folsom lover but now that they have all their transfers eligible this is a team on a diff level.
... or maybe the rest of the teams they've been playing aren't as good as usual. I think most people agree that the SFAL is a little down this year.
I was kidding but the punishment might be worse this year given MD seems to be even better than ever.
SFL is down but I don't think Folsom gets tested at all by anybody rest of year including the north champ and south bowl given they will get put in with the next tier teams.
Yep It's gonna be a st Bonaventure type again
Cause sierra canyon or Lincoln can test them
St. Bonny tested Folsom last year as the Bulldogs pulled off a last minute comeback.
Here is the History….
After 2 monumental beat downs at the hands of DLS and in fear of facing a 3rd and their All American QB not making it to a state Bowl game Folsom set out to Change the Open play in rule….
Folsom Fans, Coaches and Administrators wrote letters, placed phone calls to the SJS section commissioner crying that it was “Unfair” that Nor Cal teams had to play Big Bad DLS to go to a state bowl game…..
So Folsom then presented a plan to the commissioner to change the rule and they were “Instutmental” and a “Delight To Work With” according to the SJS commissioner in coming up with “Alternative Solutions” so the “Second Best Team In Nor Cal” would not be sent home at the hands of DLS….
The SJS commissioner presented this idiotic plan to all the sections and they all agreed that no one wanted their season ended at the hands or DLS except for of course the poor old NCS….
And So Cal Didn’t care because all their Best teams were already in a playoff Bracket together in Southern Section D1….
So that’s why the elimination of the Open Play in game is referred to as The Folsom Rule, it was all discussed in an article that was posted on this board several times, with interviews and quotes form all the parties…..
The Irony of this is it has screwed Folsom because they may have had at least 4 or 5 cracks at an Open Play in game and Being the True Champion of Nor Cal over the years had the game not been eliminated….
But hey, at the Time Folsom was just fine Thumping their Chests and Throwing Parades over D1AA State Bowl game wins like they actually won some kind of Championship….. All the while never having to play any type of Top Competition for their So Called “State Championship’s”…. 🤣
HA!…. You say this all the time and it’s Completely Untrue…..
Not 1 Section in So Cal has the Janky “Open” Brackets like the NCS and CCS have in the Nor Cal Region so that proves the Regions don’t have to operate the same way……
The only “Open” in So Cal is in San Diego where the top 4 teams play and there is no Loser moves on format like in Nor Cal so absolutely BS that Nor Cal can’t change their rules…. They do it all the time….
If all the Nor Cal Sections agreed to have an Open Play in game in Nor Cal, no one in So Cal would care or Vote against it….
It’s the Nor Cal Sections that prevent a Nor Cal Open Championship game because the “Theory” behind it is the “Second best team in Nor Cal” would go home (Folsom Rule) and there are less opportunities for the sections to place teams in SBG’s…..
That is the Reality of it…. 🤣
I agree with most of your post except that MD will lay punishment like never seen before. DLS will lose and with no doubt but Serra has had three running clocks in a row. We have definitely seen worse punishment then we will see this year with what is DLS best team in recent years. IMO they will put up a better fight then Serra has the last three years.
in the MD/Bosco era, since 2016, when bosco thumped DLS.... is playing in the open even worth it? we all know one of those 2 teams will be good enough to win the 3C2A (Cali juco) state championship... I feel like I'd rather be in the 1-aa game with a chance to win.. which means you beat a good norcal team, and then have to beat a good socal team. That's a fun way to end a season... rather than have a bye week, and then not have a chance to win.
Now, I'm not one to promote the 'participation' pathway.. I think 13 is way too many 'state champions'. I would rather my team lose in the first round of the open basketball championship, then be a 'D1 state champion', which really needs to be renamed 'division champion'. But there is such a disparity in talent, which the different transfer rules help facilitate... MD and bosco are playing on a different level with different rules... I'd just rather not.
So I guess for now and the foreseeable future, I'm just fine with the 'folsom rule'... if it means one more good team gets to be in the state game. And I'd be fine if my team missed out on the open state game and got into D1AA.
Now, I'm not one to promote the 'participation' pathway.. I think 13 is way too many 'state champions'. I would rather my team lose in the first round of the open basketball championship, then be a 'D1 state champion', which really needs to be renamed 'division champion'. But there is such a disparity in talent, which the different transfer rules help facilitate... MD and bosco are playing on a different level with different rules... I'd just rather not.
So I guess for now and the foreseeable future, I'm just fine with the 'folsom rule'... if it means one more good team gets to be in the state game. And I'd be fine if my team missed out on the open state game and got into D1AA.
Now the NCS is throwing D6 schools into the Open. Good thing Folsom isn’t in the NCS.
Honestly, MC and Newman would compete fine in the SFL this year. Behind Folsom, Both would be competing for 2-3 in that league if they played this year.
This comment reminds me that Open is called open for a reason. Its not another class of DI but intrinsically is open to all levels. The Open division concept has been used in CCS for a long time in varying degrees. But it became vogue when CIF created an open division in 2008 to address this very question of what do do about schools that are way better than its section-sanctioned division. In that year, Grant was chosen to represent the north even though they were SJS's D2 champ.
Fast forward to 2012, the CIF voted to start the regional games. An Open division was used to grab the theorical two best teams for North and South to play in regionals. It was later eliminated in 2014 by the CIF (ie the Folsom Rule) 10-0 to send one theorical best team straight to the SBG Open division. That year, a very good Folsom team was self-crowned by Richardson and crew as the best team in the CIF even though they were able to avoid the best team in both NorCal and SoCal.
Using the same Open division concept, the NCS created an open division in 2016. The probable intent was to get another top team into the RBG playoffs besides the ulta-perennial DLS team. And possibly the unintended consequence of an Open division would be to include a very strong lower level teams into Open. It seems the NCS strengthened this possibility for this year by this bylaw augmentation found in the NCS Sports and General Ruling Handbook. " Each NCS member school shall be classified for postseason competition by competitive equity. See Bylaw 507H. (Board of Managers 4/14/23)" Theoretically a NCS D7 team could be put into Open division if their competitive equity warranted to seeding.
The CCS section got the bright idea to follow NCS' action by forming their own Open/D1 version for playoffs. The CCS already used competitive equity to help seed their playoff teams. This practice is so deeply integrated in the CCS system that the section doesn't identify regular season divisions. However, CCS does group leagues by multi-year strength into A, B or C levels. And the CCS modified its playoff system this year by restricting only C level teams into division 5 for playoff purposes.
As I understand it, NCS is not throwing D6 schools into the Open. Instead independent teams are earning their way into Open by their quality season of play. If a team is bad enough to stay in D6, they will never make it to Open.
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Regarding last sentence that is My understanding as well. Newman or MC aren't thrown anywhere. They will have earned the right to play at that level. And like I've said before, the best Newman and MC teams can compete with anybody in Norcal. This isn't even one of MC's better teams and they played St Mary's of Stockton very tough who also played DLS very tough. Matchups are everything. Pitt would be probably more problematic for Newman than DLS for example. Back when I played it was NCS 3A and we played DLS and PItt and were a d4 team really. That was a bigger lift than this.
Does anyone remember when the CIF hosted the Large School Open Division as well as the Small School Open Division?
Does anyone remember why the CIF moved away from that model?
It was because Central Catholic was beating the crap out of every small school they were facing. As such, the whole CIF came to understand that this type of disparity shouldn't be allowed... all except the NCS, until now.
To see some NCS people still protest this makes me think that if they were to see a neighborhood bully pounding on some classmate, not only would they not intervene to stop it, they would cheer on and celebrate the bully.
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I was just joking around about the Folsom rule. I guess the verb, “ throwing,” was a poor choice. I am actually looking forward to seeing CN/MC perform in the Open/D1. CN especially. They have some meat on the lines, which will make them competitive against SRV/PITT, etc. and they finally have some speed at RB, a great soph CB. And Freshman QB LT is a big play maker.
(The joke was supposed to be having Folsom in NCS and playing DLS every single year in Open.). My apologies for the first sentence about throwing d6 schools into open.
What happened to Moist and Plump?
(The joke was supposed to be having Folsom in NCS and playing DLS every single year in Open.). My apologies for the first sentence about throwing d6 schools into open.
What happened to Moist and Plump?
I think Moist may have gotten himself bounced for making a racist comment. Guess he hasn’t yet figured out a new name to post under… Pasty something or other must have been taken already!!
Moist and Plump would have been all over this one for sure.
I did get you were hitting on Folsom, but there are several posters here that believe exactly what you posted. They are fine crowing about CN's strength but totally mystified when CN must compete at their competitive equity level.
But M&P is the outrageous child personality and Relly is the sane adult personality
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