Oak Ridge v. McClatchy
- Thread starter laidbackcoach
- Start date
That was a terrible seeding for McClatchy. They were seeded #3 last year, ensuring a neutral game at UOP in the semi-finals and allowing both to play in the NorCal playoffs. Mark my words, this is what will happen this year. If McClatchy loses at Oak Ridge, McClatchy will NOT get an "At-Large" birth into the NorCals. But if McClatchy wins at Oak Ridge, due to Oak Ridge's very good or high MaxPreps ranking, Oak Ridge will get an At-Large invitation to the NorCals. They will get the best of both worlds. Golden Valley (a Division II team in MaxPreps) was seeded higher than McClatchy. Talk about getting no respect as last year's CIF D1 state champion. The MaxPreps computer power rankings was 90% used in today's girls D1 seedings. McClatchy gets unfairly penalized because they play in a weak league. You should read CalHiSports on their Top 20 Girls BB rankings and public comments at the bottom.
This is what happens in the SJS when you play that incredible schedule that you guys scream about, if you don't win you get punished. The thinking of the officials in the SJS is prehistoric. Oak ridge should be just as mad as McClatchy, to have to play a game like that in the second round is ridiculous and "NO" there will not be any Norcal playoffs for the loser.
I believe a team that loses in the quarters is out unless a team from that division gets moved to the Open in which case that opens up another spot.
The big mistake is Golden Valley at #5 they should be 10 or so. Lost 4 games to weak teams Yosemite really. Didn't beat one good team. McClatchy has some huge wins Cardinal Newman, West Campus, Sac High, Sacred Heart, Lynwood and all 5 losses to top level teams. If Golden Valley played their schedule would have lost 10-12 games. Franklin will go to Golden Valley and beat them on the road.
if Oak Ridge loses to McClatchy they will still make it to norcals because SMS will be pulled to the open and the highest seed left will be moved in to take their place. Oak Ridge being the #2 seed will get the vacated spot left open by the SMS departure and be seeded as the 4th team coming out of the SJS.
I concur 100% McClatchy should have been no worse than the #5 seed.
Head scratching seeding by the section committees again...
It happens EVERY year in EVERY section...a committee of Norcalprep forum contributors could do the job 100 times better.
Color me confused.
By enrollment:
Oak Ridge 2408
McClatchy 2270
Golden Valley 1772
By division (according to SJS web site)
Oak Ridge: D1
Golden Valley: D1
McClatchy: D2
Now, this is the official SJS explanation:
"The SJS basketball postseason determines playoff teams by qualifying through league (see below) as well as the top 12 teams by division at the end of the season by MaxPreps rankings (top 8 in Divisions 5-6). Divisions 1-4 are then split evenly by enrollment."
OK, but McClatchy is part of the MaxPreps' Division I rankings, despite being listed as Division II, and Golden Valley is Division II, despite being Division I in SJS. So how can these rankings be used?
And then what does it mean to split the divisions evenly by enrollment? Does this mean they take the top 64 teams by the above unclear method, and then divide them into four brackets based on enrollment? If so, how can Golden Valley be Division I? Or McClatchy Division II?
NCS may have an invisible committee but at least it's clear what division you're in, and those divisions are determined by enrollment (for better or worse).
By enrollment:
Oak Ridge 2408
McClatchy 2270
Golden Valley 1772
By division (according to SJS web site)
Oak Ridge: D1
Golden Valley: D1
McClatchy: D2
Now, this is the official SJS explanation:
"The SJS basketball postseason determines playoff teams by qualifying through league (see below) as well as the top 12 teams by division at the end of the season by MaxPreps rankings (top 8 in Divisions 5-6). Divisions 1-4 are then split evenly by enrollment."
OK, but McClatchy is part of the MaxPreps' Division I rankings, despite being listed as Division II, and Golden Valley is Division II, despite being Division I in SJS. So how can these rankings be used?
And then what does it mean to split the divisions evenly by enrollment? Does this mean they take the top 64 teams by the above unclear method, and then divide them into four brackets based on enrollment? If so, how can Golden Valley be Division I? Or McClatchy Division II?
NCS may have an invisible committee but at least it's clear what division you're in, and those divisions are determined by enrollment (for better or worse).
The loser of McClatchy-Oak Ridge will NOT be in NorCals. SJS doesn't backfill for teams pulled up to Open. I think the NCS is the only one that does that.
Golden Valley got moved up because they won a D1 league. It is the same reason why Vanden is now D2 after winning a D2 league.
Terrible SJS DI seeds this year. Folsom, the 2nd place team in the SFL, has a much easier road to semis than Oak Ridge, the SFL champs
Golden Valley got moved up because they won a D1 league. It is the same reason why Vanden is now D2 after winning a D2 league.
Terrible SJS DI seeds this year. Folsom, the 2nd place team in the SFL, has a much easier road to semis than Oak Ridge, the SFL champs
It goes deeper than that Inderkum and Rio Linda were D2 all year and out of nowhere they end up in D3. It’s like they are making it up as they go. Also Tia Hay @St. Francis Sacramento who should have been deemed eligible in my opinion at the start of the season just out of nowhere is deemed eligible for the playoffs. Tia playing changes everything in D1. I would not be surprise if they are in the state finals D1.
Just think no matter what a team is seeded they still have to win. But WOW McClachy played a rough schedule with key wins and now they facing Oak Ridge which had an earies schedule then them. Rough schedulewill play a big part in this game. McClachy is battle tested and ready for the playoffs. IF McClachy wins will shake up norcal Open division seeding.
So how do they determine what division a league is? I'm guessing by enrollment, so if you're a smaller school in a bad league of bigger schools, you get bumped up; but if you're a big school in a league of smaller schools, you get to move down no matter how good you are.
SJS has always been the wackiest section in this regard, but this may be the worst ever ...
SJS has always been the wackiest section in this regard, but this may be the worst ever ...
This is unfair to both teams ORHS and McClatchey HS. Whoever loses that game is put in a bad spot because both teams should have a legit shot at Nor Cal without having to eliminate each other. McClatchey should have been the 4 or 5 seed IMHO.
Teams are seat according to wins and loses but sometimes strength of schedule matters. This will be a good game early in the playoffs even though it should have been in the 3 round. But it is what it is someone will miss miss the Norcal playoffs. The other think each one of these teams have no chance of winning section anyway SJS D1 with SMS in the division.
Ate a dominating performance from CKM, but still proud of my player's performance.
Don't know if they were seeded too low, we might have been too high.
McClatchy could have been on the other side of the bracket and faced St. Mary's, or seeded up one, then face St. Francis with Hay returning. Division 1 is just a beast compared to Div 2, where all 3 CVC teams that CO beat, won by as much as 20 (Antelope is other level). Footnote: If Gigi and Courtesy were playing, absolute 1 seed.
Don't know if they were seeded too low, we might have been too high.
McClatchy could have been on the other side of the bracket and faced St. Mary's, or seeded up one, then face St. Francis with Hay returning. Division 1 is just a beast compared to Div 2, where all 3 CVC teams that CO beat, won by as much as 20 (Antelope is other level). Footnote: If Gigi and Courtesy were playing, absolute 1 seed.
[QUOTif="RespectBBGame, post: 109025, member: 2288"]Somebody faith for the year will be done tonight because the team that lose no Norcal!!!![/QUOTE]
True if McClatchy loses. If Oak Ridge loses my bet is that CIF does an "Exception to Policy" and changes its mind, giving Oak Ridge an "At Large" invitation. Can't have such a high seed out so early is the CIF's thinking. I know you say no way, but let's just wait and see. If McClatchy loses it's a mute point.
True if McClatchy loses. If Oak Ridge loses my bet is that CIF does an "Exception to Policy" and changes its mind, giving Oak Ridge an "At Large" invitation. Can't have such a high seed out so early is the CIF's thinking. I know you say no way, but let's just wait and see. If McClatchy loses it's a mute point.
I think if either teams lose they are out. Oak Ridge strenght of schedule doesn't match with McClachy schedule. If that was the case MC should get in because they are playing SMS tonight and their strength of schedule not bad either. So in my opinion it wouldn't warrant an At Large berth!!!!!!!
I agree with you 100%. I hope I am wrong. [Qagree with you 100%.E="RespectBBGame, post: 109040, member: 2288"]I think if either teams lose they are out. Oak Ridge strenght of schedule doesn't match with McClachy schedule. If that was the case MC should get in because they are playing SMS tonight and their strength of schedule not bad either. So in my opinion it wouldn't warrant an At Large berth!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
I agr
I agr
It seems to be a "Catch 22" thing going here. I think they rely on records and computer rankings to avoid the appearance of favoritism. How ever computer rankings, while a usable tool under certain circumstances, can also be very deceptive. It seems that the people doing the rankings just are not that familiar with girls HSB, so they have to fall back on the methods they use. If they really knew what they were doing they would be confident enough to use their own common sense in making picks to mitigate some of the inherent flaws in the computer systems.
The teams just don't play enough games with common opponents to make the computer rankings infallible. Just not enough information available.
The teams just don't play enough games with common opponents to make the computer rankings infallible. Just not enough information available.
like I said earlier
but it was a schedule you guys approved of but just to bad the great minds of the SJS did not approve and now a really good team is out way to early
but it was a schedule you guys approved of but just to bad the great minds of the SJS did not approve and now a really good team is out way to early
It certainly was an odd seeding year in SJS this year. NCS stayed pretty close to Maxpreps rankings except in a few spots where they had to make some adjustments. Maxprep has Oak Ridge #2 in section and McClatchy #6. Of course, who knows what constitutes D1 in SJS. Seems like there needs to be some reform so coaches have a better understanding of where they will end up in the playoffs.
great point by Azzana. On 12/5 McClatchey play Salesian and loses, oak ridge plays Edison and wins. On 12/12 McClatchey plays Miramonte and loses and oak ridge plays Berkeley and wins. On 12/28 McClatchey plays brea and loses and oak ridge plays east lake and wins.
McClatchey and Oak Ridge enter the game last night sporting records of 23-5 and 26-1 respectively. If they were to swap those three dates, all of which Oak Ridge would now have been the underdog the records going into the match up would have been McClatchey 26-2 and Oak ridge 23-4.
First there is no way McClatchey is the #7 seed and would not face oak ridge until the semi finals and secondly if they were to meet they would have done so with McClatchey being the home team.
Strength of schedule only helps if you are breaking a tie but for the most part the teams are not tied because the team with the tougher schedule usually loses more.
McClatchey and Oak Ridge enter the game last night sporting records of 23-5 and 26-1 respectively. If they were to swap those three dates, all of which Oak Ridge would now have been the underdog the records going into the match up would have been McClatchey 26-2 and Oak ridge 23-4.
First there is no way McClatchey is the #7 seed and would not face oak ridge until the semi finals and secondly if they were to meet they would have done so with McClatchey being the home team.
Strength of schedule only helps if you are breaking a tie but for the most part the teams are not tied because the team with the tougher schedule usually loses more.
OR won 40-33. Why isn't anybody talking about the actual game? This should of could of would of.....
Legend33
The game was suspended at half time !?! The game will be continue on Sunday........
Dam when I first seen I taught it was a half time score. Dam most school you add both score to be one side of a winning score of 73. The question is why was the score so low did the light go out like it did in the Superbowl 37 and the called the game. The only other think I can think of was it a JV teams playing.
Today's SacBee story on the game last night quoted Oak Ridge Coach White saying he will ask the CIF to give McClatchy an "At-Large" invite to the NorCal. I believe he was very sincere. However, I don't think the SJS/CIF will listen though. I give the Oak Ridge team, players and coach much respect in being a great team, and beating a great team, however, the game deserved to be played on a neutral court--not in anyone's home gym. Playing in your home gym is a huge psychological advantage. McClatchy beat Oak Ridge twice (2) in the post season last year, but both games were on neutral courts (UOP and Sleep Train).
I have emails from other influential media prep sports columnists/forums and said McClatchy deserved to be seeded from #3 to #5. To me the #7 seeding was an insult and showed disrespect. Since the SJS selection committee relied 100% on MaxPreps computer rankings in their D1 Girls seeding, THEN WHY HAVE A SELECTION COMMITTEE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
[McClatchy was ranked #6 in MaxPreps' D1 Girls SJS + D2 Golden Valley having a better MaxPreps state ranking, put McClatchy at #7.]
Last year/season, McClatchy was seeded #3 with practically the same record and same difficult schedule. What many have expressed in this forum is based on a "perceived appearance" of favoritism by MaxPreps / CIF towards Oak Ridge, however, this is NOT a knock on the Oak Ridge team, players and coach (all innocent and a great team). The knock is on the system and process.
1. MaxPreps computer rankings formula favors teams in D1 leagues with strong teams in the league. The Sierra Foothill League is such a league. McClatchy is in a weak league due to weak teams with losing records, so even when McClatchy beat their league opponents by 30-50 points, McClatchy's ranking in MaxPreps goes DOWN/WORSE, not better. That is why McClatchy is forced to play the super tough non-league schedule because once league play starts their ranking gets worse, even for blowout wins. MaxPreps' formula doesn't account for head-to-head games. Even after McClatchy won the CIF State D1 championship last year, and beat Davis and Oak Ridge twice last year, McClatchy's "final end of season" state and SJS ranking was still worse than Davis and Oak Ridge in MaxPreps. MaxPreps only makes final playoff adjustments to teams that are in their national Excellent 25 Ranking. So the complete reliance on MaxPreps rankings for playoff seedings this year was different than last year by the SJS. At least CalHiSports takes common opponents, head-to-head games, and strength of schedule in their rankings. MaxPreps doesn't.
2. MaxPreps headquarters is located in Cameron Park (did you know that?). MaxPreps headquarters is only 8.5 miles from Oak Ridge HS. The only closer major high school is Ponderosa. But Ponderosa is much older, smaller in students, and less affluent. Oak Ridge is in El Dorado Hills, new, large, and very affluent socio-economically. It's very "conceivable" and possible that MaxPreps employees have family, friends, relatives, current and former that have a connection to Oak Ridge HS.
3. MaxPreps is a large sponsor to the CIF. As posted in CalHiSports last week, MaxPreps pays much money by sponsoring the CIF playoffs. Thus, the CIF relies significantly on MaxPreps rankings.
4. So last year/season is what got a lot of attention. Oak Ridge lost to McClatchy in the semi-final section tournament at UOP. So for the NorCal state tournament many people (including CalHiSports) predicted that Oak Ridge would be playing on the road. But instead, Oak Ridge was awarded a #2 seed, behind #1 seed McClatchy (St. Mary's went to the Open Division). Being the #2 seed, Oak Ridge received a 1st-round Bye and received home site advantage until reaching Sleep Train Arena. Meanwhile, North Coast Section WINNER, BERKELEY received a stunning #3 seed. This meant that NCS winner Berkeley had to play a 1st round game, and then play it's 2nd round game at Oak Ridge--and lost. The North Coast Section is NOT a slouch--that's a top section. So how does a strong Section winner get a lower/worse seed than a section Semi-final loser? That's what happened last year. That raised eyebrows. It was due to the very high/excellent MaxPreps ranking that Oak Ridge had and the CIF used it.
5. So when McClatchy was seeded #7 in the SJS sections that meant McClatchy had to play at Oak Ridge and not at a neutral site. It gave the appearance of a CIF /MaxPreps / Oak Ridge connection and after what happened last year, eliminate McClatchy from the NorCal tournament, giving Oak Ridge an easier route to get to the D1 State final without having to face McClatchy again, using a home court advantage. Some people think the poor seeding McClatchy received was intentional by the SJS and used the MaxPreps rankings as cover--but then why have a selection committee in the first place--it just didn't add up.
Again, there is a perceived flaw and possible conflict of interest / favoritism due to the process and system used. This is not a complaint against a team, players, and coach who are innocent.
I have emails from other influential media prep sports columnists/forums and said McClatchy deserved to be seeded from #3 to #5. To me the #7 seeding was an insult and showed disrespect. Since the SJS selection committee relied 100% on MaxPreps computer rankings in their D1 Girls seeding, THEN WHY HAVE A SELECTION COMMITTEE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
[McClatchy was ranked #6 in MaxPreps' D1 Girls SJS + D2 Golden Valley having a better MaxPreps state ranking, put McClatchy at #7.]
Last year/season, McClatchy was seeded #3 with practically the same record and same difficult schedule. What many have expressed in this forum is based on a "perceived appearance" of favoritism by MaxPreps / CIF towards Oak Ridge, however, this is NOT a knock on the Oak Ridge team, players and coach (all innocent and a great team). The knock is on the system and process.
1. MaxPreps computer rankings formula favors teams in D1 leagues with strong teams in the league. The Sierra Foothill League is such a league. McClatchy is in a weak league due to weak teams with losing records, so even when McClatchy beat their league opponents by 30-50 points, McClatchy's ranking in MaxPreps goes DOWN/WORSE, not better. That is why McClatchy is forced to play the super tough non-league schedule because once league play starts their ranking gets worse, even for blowout wins. MaxPreps' formula doesn't account for head-to-head games. Even after McClatchy won the CIF State D1 championship last year, and beat Davis and Oak Ridge twice last year, McClatchy's "final end of season" state and SJS ranking was still worse than Davis and Oak Ridge in MaxPreps. MaxPreps only makes final playoff adjustments to teams that are in their national Excellent 25 Ranking. So the complete reliance on MaxPreps rankings for playoff seedings this year was different than last year by the SJS. At least CalHiSports takes common opponents, head-to-head games, and strength of schedule in their rankings. MaxPreps doesn't.
2. MaxPreps headquarters is located in Cameron Park (did you know that?). MaxPreps headquarters is only 8.5 miles from Oak Ridge HS. The only closer major high school is Ponderosa. But Ponderosa is much older, smaller in students, and less affluent. Oak Ridge is in El Dorado Hills, new, large, and very affluent socio-economically. It's very "conceivable" and possible that MaxPreps employees have family, friends, relatives, current and former that have a connection to Oak Ridge HS.
3. MaxPreps is a large sponsor to the CIF. As posted in CalHiSports last week, MaxPreps pays much money by sponsoring the CIF playoffs. Thus, the CIF relies significantly on MaxPreps rankings.
4. So last year/season is what got a lot of attention. Oak Ridge lost to McClatchy in the semi-final section tournament at UOP. So for the NorCal state tournament many people (including CalHiSports) predicted that Oak Ridge would be playing on the road. But instead, Oak Ridge was awarded a #2 seed, behind #1 seed McClatchy (St. Mary's went to the Open Division). Being the #2 seed, Oak Ridge received a 1st-round Bye and received home site advantage until reaching Sleep Train Arena. Meanwhile, North Coast Section WINNER, BERKELEY received a stunning #3 seed. This meant that NCS winner Berkeley had to play a 1st round game, and then play it's 2nd round game at Oak Ridge--and lost. The North Coast Section is NOT a slouch--that's a top section. So how does a strong Section winner get a lower/worse seed than a section Semi-final loser? That's what happened last year. That raised eyebrows. It was due to the very high/excellent MaxPreps ranking that Oak Ridge had and the CIF used it.
5. So when McClatchy was seeded #7 in the SJS sections that meant McClatchy had to play at Oak Ridge and not at a neutral site. It gave the appearance of a CIF /MaxPreps / Oak Ridge connection and after what happened last year, eliminate McClatchy from the NorCal tournament, giving Oak Ridge an easier route to get to the D1 State final without having to face McClatchy again, using a home court advantage. Some people think the poor seeding McClatchy received was intentional by the SJS and used the MaxPreps rankings as cover--but then why have a selection committee in the first place--it just didn't add up.
Again, there is a perceived flaw and possible conflict of interest / favoritism due to the process and system used. This is not a complaint against a team, players, and coach who are innocent.
I was at the game last night and it was sloppy at best. Both teams didn't play well. Luckily for Oak Ridge Gigi wasn't playing and Jordan Cruz had a bad night or Oak Ridge would have lost. Steve White should thank his lucky stars that he has Cassidy Delap and Haley McCoy or his team wouldn't do crap but beat up on the weak division there in. The next game at UOP should be a good one I guess but it doesn't matter anyways because St. Mary's is going to throttle the winner anyways.
P.S. Is it just me or does Joe Davidson from the Sacbee have a man crush on Steve White? Joe you can write about other players besides the ones Steve tells you to write about. It's a joke!
P.S. Is it just me or does Joe Davidson from the Sacbee have a man crush on Steve White? Joe you can write about other players besides the ones Steve tells you to write about. It's a joke!
When playing on the big stage some teams do well and some don't. But if Gigi was there whole different story she was one of the main players that took her team to state. The next game will be a good one and Tia Hay loves the big stage and performs very. If Oak Ridge doesn't come to play it will be over before you know it.
Gigi hasn't played the entire season right? Its really not the same team for obvious reasons. They had a great run even without her. My experience has been great teams meeting typically can end in ugly defensive battles unless you are st mary's of stockton or Miramonte and you still seem to score 80+.
Over the years, Sac-Joaquin has had by far the worst record for goofy/incomprehensible seeding decisions. It's uncanny really -- one would think they would eventually just adopt some other section's system that, if not perfect, is at least better/semi-logical.
