Open Bowl Game

[Bubba3000]

After watching yet another NorCal/SoCal open bowl game I've come to the conclusion that it will take an exceptional DLS team to ever win the game again for Norcal. There's simply too much talent down south for them to lose going forward. Oh sure, DLS can compete with those teams with discipline and execution. The only way I see DLS winning another one is if the SoCal team shoots themselves in the foot with multiple turnovers and/or a plethora of penalties. IMO even an exceptional DLS team will struggle to beat the best of the southern section because week in and week out they don't face top notch competition the way teams down south do.

 

[Truthhertz]

After watching yet another NorCal/SoCal open bowl game I've come to the conclusion that it will take an exceptional DLS team to ever win the game again for Norcal. There's simply too much talent down south for them to lose going forward. Oh sure, DLS can compete with those teams with discipline and execution. The only way I see DLS winning another one is if the SoCal team shoots themselves in the foot with multiple turnovers and/or a plethora of penalties. IMO even an exceptional DLS team will struggle to beat the best of the southern section because week in and week out they don't face top notch competition the way teams down south do.

They will always have a shot because they play sound fundamental HS football. Talent wise I doubt they will match up well year after year. The biggest hurdle for SoCal teams in this game is themselves. It’s no secret SoCal teams view winning the southern section as a bigger accomplishment than beating the northern rep. NorCal needs these victories more it seems to validate NoCal football.(I’m not saying that’s how it should be, but the perception is there)

 

[northbayfb]

After watching yet another NorCal/SoCal open bowl game I've come to the conclusion that it will take an exceptional DLS team to ever win the game again for Norcal. There's simply too much talent down south for them to lose going forward. Oh sure, DLS can compete with those teams with discipline and execution. The only way I see DLS winning another one is if the SoCal team shoots themselves in the foot with multiple turnovers and/or a plethora of penalties. IMO even an exceptional DLS team will struggle to beat the best of the southern section because week in and week out they don't face top notch competition the way teams down south do.

I don't think DLS is that far off. I do think they need to do a better job at evaluating/developing their passing game. If they consistently hit the open receivers it opens up their run game. You have to be able to hit more than bubble or slip screens. They say you can't coach accuracy and it has proven out time and time again.

 

[FormerD1Backer]

It would help if DLS can grow a 6'5" 250lb QB who the DL can't tackle and has a pin-point cannon arm! Honestly, given the talent gap it's quite a testament to DLS that they hung in as long as they did in that game. They have evolved a bit too, but finding skill players to master the Veer/Spread hybrid effectively enough to beat SJB or MD more than once every 5-7 years will be a challenge. I do think they will pick up the occasional win as there will be years they have an abundance of exceptional talent, but the goal posts have been moved a bit!

 

[ankleassassin]

according to some... they dont have exceptional talent. maybe 1-2.. everyone else has high motors and hard workers..

 

[Paloma]

Similar to Murphy, they suffer from being beholden to an outdated offense. Complete over haul is needed.

That being said, they can win state again. The change in playoffs will go back to giving them the the advantage over the BVAL and Clayton (when they go back to D1 next year) by being the only NCS team playing on television. Playing on ESPN At the beginning of the season and on tv at the end of the season has tremendous influence as players and families decide where to attend high school.

Hopefully the CIF will figure it out. 14 state champs is excessive. Hahaha

 

[Streak One]

Similar to Murphy, they suffer from being beholden to an outdated offense. Complete over haul is needed.

That being said, they can win state again. The change in playoffs will go back to giving them the the advantage over the BVAL and Clayton (when they go back to D1 next year) by being the only NCS team playing on television. Playing on ESPN At the beginning of the season and on tv at the end of the season has tremendous influence as players and families decide where to attend high school.

Hopefully the CIF will figure it out. 14 state champs is excessive. Hahaha

I heard this a lot and I don't get it. Any system (offense or defense) needs to be modified as the game develops and talent available changes, but the offensive system DLS runs is fine. It maximizes the talent they usually have.

From what I saw against Bosco, they missed a few big plays on offense (need to be near perfect) and just got beat on defense becuase they couldn't match up physically (first TD throw and DJ scramble come to mind). Not sure how you correct that one

 

[larry legend33]

The team DLS had with Austin Hooper and those guys was loaded. Think they were 15-0 and blasted everyone. They need that sort of talent again. It will happen.

 

[Truthhertz]

I heard this a lot and I don't get it. Any system (offense or defense) needs to be modified as the game develops and talent available changes, but the offensive system DLS runs is fine. It maximizes the talent they usually have.

From what I saw against Bosco, they missed a few big plays on offense (need to be near perfect) and just got beat on defense becuase they couldn't match up physically (first TD throw and DJ scramble come to mind). Not sure how you correct that one

I think both Murphy’s offense and DLS offense are perfect for HS football. Both can be run fairly easy even when talent isn’t there. High school has huge turnover so keeping it basic and expanding from there is key. Most fans however enjoy the spread it out and throw it all over the field. That however requires the players year after year who can handle the complexities of passing attacks. Most schools just don’t get that type of kid/talent.

 

[northbayfb]

I heard this a lot and I don't get it. Any system (offense or defense) needs to be modified as the game develops and talent available changes, but the offensive system DLS runs is fine. It maximizes the talent they usually have.

From what I saw against Bosco, they missed a few big plays on offense (need to be near perfect) and just got beat on defense becuase they couldn't match up physically (first TD throw and DJ scramble come to mind). Not sure how you correct that one

As D1backer said earlier the goalposts have been moved. The offense is fine to beat every NorCal team, however, it’s not “fine” to beat either SJB or Mater Dei and what high level QB and/or WR is going to be attracted to a place where you throw the ball 30% of the time. If your not an equal threat to throw the ball as you are to run the ball then you’ve put yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[Paloma]

As D1backer said earlier the goalposts have been moved. The offense is fine to beat every NorCal team, however, it’s not “fine” to beat either SJB or Mater Dei and what high level QB and/or WR is going to be attracted to a place where you throw the ball 30% of the time. If your not an equal threat to throw the ball as you are to run the ball then you’ve put yourself at a disadvantage.

Agree and it is mostly because Bosco and Mater Dei aren’t faze on the lines, along with the skill positions. Not to mention coaching is just as good. So there’s ultimately no advantage unless they have the 2015 mega DLS team

 

[Paloma]

I heard this a lot and I don't get it. Any system (offense or defense) needs to be modified as the game develops and talent available changes, but the offensive system DLS runs is fine. It maximizes the talent they usually have.

From what I saw against Bosco, they missed a few big plays on offense (need to be near perfect) and just got beat on defense becuase they couldn't match up physically (first TD throw and DJ scramble come to mind). Not sure how you correct that one

That is my point I guess. Pick a offense. Can’t beat super teams doing both. DLS and Clayton are so aggressive on the lines that when neutralized it’s too darn hard for them to flip the switch. That Aquinas team was terrible and probably loses to Mack, so I won’t count that game. ;-)

 

[Truthhertz]

That is my point I guess. Pick a offense. Can’t beat super teams doing both. DLS and Clayton are so aggressive on the lines that when neutralized it’s too darn hard for them to flip the switch. That Aquinas team was terrible and probably loses to Mack, so I won’t count that game. ;-)

If Aquinas was terrible what’s that say about CV? They only won by 3. Aquinas had freshman playing both ways and a sophomore QB who was also their LB. They were just a small school forced into a bracket they had no business. CV was a large school playing down into a playoff division they had no business.

 

[northbayfb]

If Aquinas was terrible what’s that say about CV? They only won by 3. Aquinas had freshman playing both ways and a sophomore QB who was also their LB. They were just a small school forced into a bracket they had no business. CV was a large school playing down into a playoff division they had no business.

First time I’ve seen you stray from the if you don’t like it just get better attitude. For the record I agree with most of your posts.

 

[Truthhertz]

First time I’ve seen you stray from the if you don’t like it just get better attitude. For the record I agree with most of your posts.

LOL I’m not straying off that opinion at all, I still believe that. However a D4 or 5 program paired with a D1 or 2 program for a state title I have a hard time getting behind that. And when that D4/5 school only loses by 3 what’s that say about the winner, and Ca. State championship series as a whole?

 

[FBAddict]

LOL I’m not straying off that opinion at all, I still believe that. However a D4 or 5 program paired with a D1 or 2 program for a state title I have a hard time getting behind that. And when that D4/5 school only loses by 3 what’s that say about the winner, and Ca. State championship series as a whole?

Ah, but what is a D1 or D2 division in one section compared to the D4 or D5 of another section? We can cite numerous examples where there are huge mismatches between divisions among the sections. Your comments would make a lot of sense if divisions were even generally equal among the sections.

NS gets it a little bit - they start their top division at D2 but we have the SS section with 14 divisions. That puts D8-D14 in a class by themselves and D8-D10 might be more like NCS' D2 or D3 programs.

 

[northbayfb]

LOL I’m not straying off that opinion at all, I still believe that. However a D4 or 5 program paired with a D1 or 2 program for a state title I have a hard time getting behind that. And when that D4/5 school only loses by 3 what’s that say about the winner, and Ca. State championship series as a whole?

I don’t think it’s detrimental to the system when small school teams are playing up a division. But when you have a South Torrance school of 2000+ playing down against a 145 student St Bernards it’s a joke. The number of state titles compares to other. “Football “ States. I just think there should be a limit to how far down a large size school can play. Same for Milpitas.

 

[Truthhertz]

Ah, but what is a D1 or D2 division in one section compared to the D4 or D5 of another section? We can cite numerous examples where there are huge mismatches between divisions among the sections. Your comments would make a lot of sense if divisions were even generally equal among the sections.

NS gets it a little bit - they start their top division at D2 but we have the SS section with 14 divisions. That puts D8-D14 in a class by themselves and D8-D10 might be more like NCS' D2 or D3 programs.

I hear what you’re saying but Aquinas is a small coed school with a enrollment of around 500, if that 500 were say all boys we might have a argument. Putting a school like that in D2 against even a average team/program just isn’t fair. Now if they petitioned to be there that different, but forcing it? CVC with it bravado frankly should have never accepted the D2 assignment and petitioned to play in D1, fact they didn’t speaks volumes doesn’t it?

 

[Streak One]

That is my point I guess. Pick a offense. Can’t beat super teams doing both. DLS and Clayton are so aggressive on the lines that when neutralized it’s too darn hard for them to flip the switch. That Aquinas team was terrible and probably loses to Mack, so I won’t count that game. ;-)

I think they do have a system that has expanded with a spread passing look thanks to having some talent at QB and WR they don't always have. And lets not forget the defense has been beaten up a few times in the Open Game. There are things that can be corrected (De La Salle needs to be close to perfect to win this game), but at the end of the day, they aren't getting the same Jimmys and Joes as Bosco and Mater Dei and you can't out scheme that sometimes

 

[Bubba3000]

I think they do have a system that has expanded with a spread passing look thanks to having some talent at QB and WR they don't always have. And lets not forget the defense has been beaten up a few times in the Open Game. There are things that can be corrected (De La Salle needs to be close to perfect to win this game), but at the end of the day, they aren't getting the same Jimmys and Joes as Bosco and Mater Dei and you can't out scheme that sometimes

You hit the nail on the head, Streak. The St Thomas Aquinas Jimmy's and Joe's were also superior to DLS

 

[Streak One]

And to continue it: This is the same dynamic the rest of the East Bay has with De La Salle. You try your best to create a system that highlights your strengths (and usually coaches know what kind of kids they get), but there is a ceiling to it

 

[Bubba3000]

And to continue it: This is the same dynamic the rest of the East Bay has with De La Salle. You try your best to create a system that highlights your strengths (and usually coaches know what kind of kids they get), but there is a ceiling to it

This is why I love the Open State Championship game. It's guaranteed to be the one game of the year where DLS gets a taste of what the rest of NorCal experiences by being totally over matched.

 

[northbayfb]

You hit the nail on the head, Streak. The St Thomas Aquinas Jimmy's and Joe's were also superior to DLS

If you get average passing accuracy in that game DLS wins.

 

[ankleassassin]

You hit the nail on the head, Streak. The St Thomas Aquinas Jimmy's and Joe's were also superior to DLS

you mean the samoans and brothas.. the jimmys were equal.. just st thomas, st john and mater dei have more of the former.

 

[ankleassassin]

This is why I love the Open State Championship game. It's guaranteed to be the one game of the year where DLS gets a taste of what the rest of NorCal experiences by being totally over matched.

i said this too.... it was all fun and games with the 20 year winning streak and total dominance over everyone here... then you get a taste of your own medicine and its complaints

 

[ararar]

At this moment I would put even money on DLS winning Open next year

 

[Bubba3000]

If you get average passing accuracy in that game DLS wins.

Passing accuracy has always been Hale's biggest weakness, IMO

 

[THEOC89]

I heard this a lot and I don't get it. Any system (offense or defense) needs to be modified as the game develops and talent available changes, but the offensive system DLS runs is fine. It maximizes the talent they usually have.

From what I saw against Bosco, they missed a few big plays on offense (need to be near perfect) and just got beat on defense becuase they couldn't match up physically (first TD throw and DJ scramble come to mind). Not sure how you correct that one

I Totally agree with this!!!... I think Coach A has done a Great Job with the Offense, using the talent he has to mix the Veer and the Spread... What shows this the most is the lack of TE DLS seems to have this year... Coach A didn't have that so he is taking advantage of the talent at WR instead... 60 Yard TD to a WR Called back on a Phantom Holding Penalty and Daley had some nice catches...

DLS put up ore points on SJB then any team not named MD.... If the FG is Ruled Good, The terrible holding call is not made the Game is 42-38 Bosco with DLS on the 2 yard line going in to score with 3 or so minutes left...

But SJB's Defense made the play to Ice the game, which is what DLS couldn't do... The Glaring hole in their defense is the LB's... They have no D1 LB roaming the middle of the field making big tackles like they have always had...

As an Avid DLS Fan, I am excited about what is going on there, and so what if they are getting beat by teams with 30 D1 Players... They will figure it out and it will be all the more sweet for them when they make it happen...

I agree with @ararar , I would put DLS at even money to win next year, they were only 2 plays away from playing a "Perfect Game" and a shot at the lead in that game with 3 minutes left....

They are closer then people think....

 

[ararar]

I Totally agree with this!!!... I think Coach A has done a Great Job with the Offense, using the talent he has to mix the Veer and the Spread... What shows this the most is the lack of TE DLS seems to have this year... Coach A didn't have that so he is taking advantage of the talent at WR instead... 60 Yard TD to a WR Called back on a Phantom Holding Penalty and Daley had some nice catches...

DLS put up ore points on SJB then any team not named MD.... If the FG is Ruled Good, The terrible holding call is not made the Game is 42-38 Bosco with DLS on the 2 yard line going in to score with 3 or so minutes left...

But SJB's Defense made the play to Ice the game, which is what DLS couldn't do... The Glaring hole in their defense is the LB's... They have no D1 LB roaming the middle of the field making big tackles like they have always had...

As an Avid DLS Fan, I am excited about what is going on there, and so what if they are getting beat by teams with 30 D1 Players... They will figure it out and it will be all the more sweet for them when they make it happen...

I agree with @ararar , I would put DLS at even money to win next year, they were only 2 plays away from playing a "Perfect Game" and a shot at the lead in that game with 3 minutes left....

They are closer then people think....

I’ve been saying for 3 years now 2020 would be their best shot.I fully expect a QB or two will transfer into MD and SJB but none will be what Young and DJ were to those teams

 

[northbayfb]

Passing accuracy has always been Hale's biggest weakness, IMO

I’ve been trying to avoid using his name because I think he’s a stud athlete. I just feel that they have used QBs that are more safeties playing QB, than QBs that have some athleticism.

 

[THEOC89]

Passing accuracy has always been Hale's biggest weakness, IMO

Needs more Touch on some of his Passes as well... Hopefully another Off-season of 7 on 7 and all that stuff will make it better... I think he has a Big Year next year... They have 2 Excellent speed-burner WR's coming back, if they can find a TE, look out!!!....

Their Biggest loss will be Garrett.... That kid is a special player, one of the Best I have seen at DLS in the 25+ years I have been following them... Other then DJ, he was the best player on the field Saturday night... I have really enjoyed watching that dude play!!!... They have some very talented RB's waiting in the wings led by Norfleet who is very fast and could be more powerful the Garrett...

Garrett's game-breaking speed was a big deal though and it showed against the Nationally Elite teams STA and SJB... I don't know if DLS will be able to quite replace him...

 

[FBAddict]

I hear what you’re saying but Aquinas is a small coed school with a enrollment of around 500, if that 500 were say all boys we might have a argument. Putting a school like that in D2 against even a average team/program just isn’t fair. Now if they petitioned to be there that different, but forcing it? CVC with it bravado frankly should have never accepted the D2 assignment and petitioned to play in D1, fact they didn’t speaks volumes doesn’t it?

So, are you an advocate for enrollment-based divisions? Hopefully you are not one of those guys on this board who want it both ways; enrollment-based unless that school is too strong, then it must be equity-based. Strangely, I've never heard those same posters get up in arms when schools are ran over by most other teams of similar or lower enrollment.

I believe all boys or all girls schools have their base enrollment doubled.

 

[Truthhertz]

So, are you an advocate for enrollment-based divisions? Hopefully you are not one of those guys on this board who want it both ways; enrollment-based unless that school is too strong, then it must be equity-based. Strangely, I've never heard those same posters get up in arms when schools are ran over by most other teams of similar or lower enrollment.

I believe all boys or all girls schools have their base enrollment doubled.

Enrollment should play a factor but shouldn’t be the only factor. In terms of Aquinas however there was nothing on their resume that warrants a move to D2 either this year or prior seasons. Unlike SC or even Mack where prior history may warrant the move.

 

[Paloma]

This is why I love the Open State Championship game. It's guaranteed to be the one game of the year where DLS gets a taste of what the rest of NorCal experiences by being totally over matched.

Here here

 

[FBAddict]

Enrollment should play a factor but shouldn’t be the only factor. In terms of Aquinas however there was nothing on their resume that warrants a move to D2 either this year or prior seasons. Unlike SC or even Mack where prior history may warrant the move.

I would like to see your list of division-based criteria.

Regarding Aquinas, I had to look deeper because I don't know much about that school. They are a SS D-5 school. They beat a SS D-4 San Juan Hills team to get the state Bowl spot of D2-AA. (If you are counting down the Bowl Division line, D2-AA is actually D4 if you allow Open to be D1.) They beat Oxnard, St. Paul and San Juan Hills who ended up with CP ratings similar to CVC. Their only loss besides CVC was to Grace Brethren. Mark Tennis noted that both Aquinas and SJH beat long-time rivals in their regular season journey. He also noted that both CVC and EG were fairly placed. Earlier on, Mark projected CN & San Joaquin M at D2-AA with the South counterpart being other SS D4 & D5 teams while Mack was in D1-A and CVC was projected in D2-A.

Aquinas was rated CP 31.4 with a 10-2 record last year. Last year, CVC was CP rated 41.6 with a 9-2 record. CP 5-year dynasty showed CVC rated 45.4 with a 49-14 record and Aquinas with a 31 rating and 56-14 record. So according to CP data, CVC has a better rating and Aquinas has a slightly better record. Not much difference really.

 

[13YEARSNOLOSSES]

Last I checked, you have 11 starters at once.
22 total.
34 of them with d-1 scholarships.
To 2, maybe 3 for DLS?
Thats the reason. Period.

DLS will not go 28 years without winning one of these things.

If that happened.
Then maybe DLS needs an overhaul.
Cause a beating if any kind, for that long, is pathetic, and really would be an indictment on them.

 

[Truthhertz]

I would like to see your list of division-based criteria.

Regarding Aquinas, I had to look deeper because I don't know much about that school. They are a SS D-5 school. They beat a SS D-4 San Juan Hills team to get the state Bowl spot of D2-AA. (If you are counting down the Bowl Division line, D2-AA is actually D4 if you allow Open to be D1.) They beat Oxnard, St. Paul and San Juan Hills who ended up with CP ratings similar to CVC. Their only loss besides CVC was to Grace Brethren. Mark Tennis noted that both Aquinas and SJH beat long-time rivals in their regular season journey. He also noted that both CVC and EG were fairly placed. Earlier on, Mark projected CN & San Joaquin M at D2-AA with the South counterpart being other SS D4 & D5 teams while Mack was in D1-A and CVC was projected in D2-A.

Aquinas was rated CP 31.4 with a 10-2 record last year. Last year, CVC was CP rated 41.6 with a 9-2 record. CP 5-year dynasty showed CVC rated 45.4 with a 49-14 record and Aquinas with a 31 rating and 56-14 record. So according to CP data, CVC has a better rating and Aquinas has a slightly better record. Not much difference really.

Dynasty rating alone was 14 points lower. Factor in that Aquinas record is goosed by playing in a league where nobody is ranked in the top 250. The most telling thing however that computers or Tennis or you don’t seem to grasp here. Is schools like Mack or Aquinas are behind 8 ball right of the start because of numbers not per say talent. But they wear down against bigger deeper rosters from larger institutions. I mean a case could be made Aquinas was pretty impressive when you consider they held CV to under 200 yards of total offense and I believe under 100 rushing. (No norcal team I don’t think has done except DLS I believe) With many under class man playing both ways. That’s still not the point however at some point these small schools will hit a wall or limit on where they should be. You saw Mack hit it and Aquinas to a degree. Mack looked terrible and frankly like they didn’t belong period, and I don’t think they are as bad as they showed. They were just placed wrong period.

 

[Paloma]

Last I checked, you have 11 starters at once.
22 total.
34 of them with d-1 scholarships.
To 2, maybe 3 for DLS?
Thats the reason. Period.

DLS will not go 28 years without winning one of these things.

If that happened.
Then maybe DLS needs an overhaul.
Cause a beating if any kind, for that long, is pathetic, and really would be an indictment on them.

Agree... all of the schools in Northern California over the past 28 years should look in the mirror.

 

[FBAddict]

Dynasty rating alone was 14 points lower. Factor in that Aquinas record is goosed by playing in a league where nobody is ranked in the top 250. The most telling thing however that computers or Tennis or you don’t seem to grasp here. Is schools like Mack or Aquinas are behind 8 ball right of the start because of numbers not per say talent. But they wear down against bigger deeper rosters from larger institutions. I mean a case could be made Aquinas was pretty impressive when you consider they held CV to under 200 yards of total offense and I believe under 100 rushing. (No norcal team I don’t think has done except DLS I believe) With many under class man playing both ways. That’s still not the point however at some point these small schools will hit a wall or limit on where they should be. You saw Mack hit it and Aquinas to a degree. Mack looked terrible and frankly like they didn’t belong period, and I don’t think they are as bad as they showed. They were just placed wrong period.

Good review... I am not suggesting that enrollment has no bearing on a team's outcome, but I am insisting that it has a very limited factor. There is no other way to view enrollment. The very best FB programs are not the biggest enrollment and the worst programs are not the smallest. In fact the 5th worst team in CA this year is West Adam with 1514 students. Enrollment wise, that should mean they would be ranked somewhere in middle of the pack.

CP 14 pts is only about an 8% difference over a 5 year span BTW.

Surely we have some algorithmic systems genius on this board that can tease out the merits of enrollment found in a massive database such as CP. I would be comfortable with the outcome of such a study to use going forward in a classification system. But I am quite confident the contributing factor of enrollment to success will be small.

 

[Truthhertz]

Good review... I am not suggesting that enrollment has no bearing on a team's outcome, but I am insisting that it has a very limited factor. There is no other way to view enrollment. The very best FB programs are not the biggest enrollment and the worst programs are not the smallest. In fact the 5th worst team in CA this year is West Adam with 1514 students. Enrollment wise, that should mean they would be ranked somewhere in middle of the pack.

CP 14 pts is only about an 8% difference over a 5 year span BTW.

Surely we have some algorithmic systems genius on this board that can tease out the merits of enrollment found in a massive database such as CP. I would be comfortable with the outcome of such a study to use going forward in a classification system. But I am quite confident the contributing factor of enrollment to success will be small.

I’m not saying enrollment is end all or a deciding factor period. Many thing should be used in equation here.