Playoff formats

[ClayK]

Simply put, nothing works.

If you do it by enrollment, Pinewood wins D5 every year. And privates that recruit -- and there are only a few -- punch way above their weight.

If you do it by recent history, the school that was good for three years thanks to a great class now is out of its league and will get pounded until an adjustment is made.

If you do it by this year's results, you wind up with brackets that favor the team that just missed going up a division and punish the team that is 16th out of 16, or eighth out of eight.

If you split the privates and publics, there aren't enough private schools to fill all the divisions, not to mention the fact that all the titles are even more watered down than before. Even if you just created three private divisions, there would still be issues as some bigger privates don't take sports seriously, and some small ones do.

In addition, the public school titles become even less impactful because no matter how good the public school, the fact that it didn't have to beat the privates in postseason can't be overcome.

So unless you have a solution, continual complaints about the CCS Open or NorCal seedings are pretty pointless. To me, the Open system is the best, though obviously far from perfect -- like the old line about democracy being a terrible way to run a country except for the fact it's better than any other way to run a country.

 

[Streak One]

It is true that there is no good solution so no matter what you do, there will be teams that are hurt by it.

My only solution (and it won't happen for money reasons) is to limit who moves on to NorCal. I would do two divisions of 16 teams each. I would choose the teams on the following:

8 CCS Open Teams
8 NCS Open Teams
8 SJS Open Teams
8 at-large teams

All other teams can play in traditional section brackets, but their season ends after that.

You could still have teams aiming to get into the second division, but it should be less so

 

[observer22]

It is true that there is no good solution so no matter what you do, there will be teams that are hurt by it.

My only solution (and it won't happen for money reasons) is to limit who moves on to NorCal. I would do two divisions of 16 teams each. I would choose the teams on the following:

8 CCS Open Teams
8 NCS Open Teams
8 SJS Open Teams
8 at-large teams

All other teams can play in traditional section brackets, but their season ends after that.

You could still have teams aiming to get into the second division, but it should be less so

That would certainly reward the teams that qualify for their sectional Opens.

 

[LBJ6]

It is true that there is no good solution so no matter what you do, there will be teams that are hurt by it.

My only solution (and it won't happen for money reasons) is to limit who moves on to NorCal. I would do two divisions of 16 teams each. I would choose the teams on the following:

8 CCS Open Teams
8 NCS Open Teams
8 SJS Open Teams
8 at-large teams

All other teams can play in traditional section brackets, but their season ends after that.

You could still have teams aiming to get into the second division, but it should be less so

I like it a lot. I love this. A section champ could still get in with an at large bid in this format too.

 

[myko98]

It is true that there is no good solution so no matter what you do, there will be teams that are hurt by it.

My only solution (and it won't happen for money reasons) is to limit who moves on to NorCal. I would do two divisions of 16 teams each. I would choose the teams on the following:

8 CCS Open Teams
8 NCS Open Teams
8 SJS Open Teams
8 at-large teams

All other teams can play in traditional section brackets, but their season ends after that.

You could still have teams aiming to get into the second division, but it should be less so

No Oakland or SF section teams can participate?

 

[Streak One]

No Oakland or SF section teams can participate?

They would be in the at-large pool, along with the Northern Section if they went on to play NorCal.

I could see it expanded by a few teams and add an automatic berth to one team from each of those sections.

 

[observer22]

I like it a lot. I love this. A section champ could still get in with an at large bid in this format too.

If I understood this correctly, the NorCal Open teams would be selected prior to the Sectionals, and the NorCal & Sectional games would be played concurrently? So there actually wouldn’t be a CCS, NCS or SJS Open?

 

[LBJ6]

If I understood this correctly, the NorCal Open teams would be selected prior to the Sectionals, and the NorCal & Sectional games would be played concurrently? So there actually wouldn’t be a CCS, NCS or SJS Open?

No. My understanding is that it would be the exact format as now except all open brackets would be 8 teams. Section championships continue business as usual. But when state seeding comes, it would only be two brackets of 16 ( Maybe 3 brackets with a 4 or 6 team open or something like that). Lets say 8 NCS open, 8 SJS open, 8 CCS open, 1 northern section and 1 Oakland Section. Then of the remaining section champions among the non open there would be 6 at large teams. maybe 2 from SJS, 2 NCS and 2 CCS. The state would then seed those 32 teams 1 through 32 and make 2 or 3 brackets. Instead of 5 state brackets. Like streak said money would be an issue but the idea is great. No matter what someone will always be "screwed" as the top seeds have to play someone. There will never be a bullet proof solution to any of this but this one makes a ton of sense to me.

 

[Streak One]

If I understood this correctly, the NorCal Open teams would be selected prior to the Sectionals, and the NorCal & Sectional games would be played concurrently? So there actually wouldn’t be a CCS, NCS or SJS Open?

First part was how section playoffs would work. From there you would move teams on to NorCal (much fewer teams) and play NorCal/State tournament.

 

[cougar15]

I do agree that there isn't any perfect format but, in my opinion, I think the most palatable solution is the "recent history" example in the original post. The two biggest travesties in NorCal HS sports to me, are...

1) Large schools that are mediocre/bad and get rewarded by moving down to compete with small schools (See 2019 Foothill of Bakersfield, a 2,000 student school that was 15-11 entering the playoffs and beat a bunch of small schools, includung Mt. Shasta, in the D5 state title game. Mt. Shasta had a once in a generation team at their school of 285 students).

2) Small private schools that would win every single year if things were completely enrollment based.

Those two negatives, which can play out year after year, are more damaging than the small chance that a team tht is not traditionally a power has a once in a blue moon run and ends up in a higher division than they should be for a year or two, until things correct themselves.

I was recently on the SJS website, looking at soccer playoff information and found the following. I'm not sure if the SJS uses this formula for all sports, but I like this, or some version of something similar...

E. DIVISIONAL PLACEMENT:

1. The qualifying teams will be placed in divisions in order of enrollment size. However, schools may not play more than one division below their league placement in realignment. If a school’s enrollment places them in a division that is two or more divisions below its league placement in realignment, that school will be adjusted accordingly in the playoff brackets.

2. If a school wins a Section championship at a particular level, that school must play at or above that level the following year.

3. Schools that win three championships in a row will be moved up one division. If that school wins the championship again the following year at its new level, it will be moved again to the next higher level. Otherwise, the school will remain in that specific division.

4. If a school has maintained continued success over several years but has not won three straight Section titles, the Section Commissioner (in consultation with the Executive Committee) may recommend to the board that a school be moved to a higher division. Continued success may include, but not be limited to, the following: a. Section semifinalist or finalist for four or more years in a row with at least one Section title; or b. Four Section titles in a span of six years.

5. After a school has been moved to a level above its enrollment because of the three in a row rule or the continued success rule, that school may be moved down one level if the following occurs: a. The school misses the playoffs in any year; or b. The school fails to reach the semifinals in two consecutive years.

6. A school is not allowed to play in a division lower than its enrollment.

 

[straightline50]

It sure would change the lobbying aspect. Teams would lobby to make the open as opposed to get out of the open. This would also help multi-sport athletes as a majority of the teams would have their athletes free to start their spring sport.