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Private Schools - Why Don't They Have the Same Rules

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BayReporter

Seasoned Veteran
Nov 19, 2014
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Just some random thoughts:

Private schools have advantages public schools do not when it comes to prospective athletesThey can offer a better education (based on test scores). Since the majority of the student body is paying $10K a year plus, they are obviously going to be more focused and goal oriented to achieve good grades and thus better test scores. If I am a parent of an athlete, I am absolutely putting the academic environment at the top of the list, and if I can get the majority if not all the tuition covered hell yeah!I would also like to see statistics regarding the denomination of the athletes. First instance at Central Catholic or DLS, how many of the football players are actually Catholic compared to the general population at the school. Remember these are religious institutions, and I bet you will find a large disparity between the football athletes and the general school population when it comes to belonging to the school's faith of choice.They can scholarship the athlete based on their ability. The fact that you can cut the tuition anywhere from 50% to 100%, how is this not considered a recruiting tool? I understand that scholarships are available for non-athletes, but every good to great athlete has the ability to get a scholarship. How many kids that came from Richmond to play at DLS ever paid a dime?

Just curious about other's thoughts on this subject. I admire the programs put together at the institutions, and I have no problem with families taking advantage of the opportunity, but I think they absolutely have a gigantic advantage over the public sector.
 
Folsom, Grant, Los Gatos, Campolindo, Clayton Valley, Elk Grove, Granite Bay, Tracy, Oakdale, Palo Alto are just some examples of programs in different sports that are incredibly successful. Throw in Casa Grande, Pittsburg, Cal Hi! Sheldon, etc.

The key is community and administration support and a coach and a staff who is established that will mature a program. Those publics play with any privates because they have similar community and administration support. Also, poor taste in using examples of poor socially economic kids who go to another school just for athletics. Every parent wants the best for their kids and an opportunity to be successful in any endeavor. So what if a school helps with tuition. I know for a fact that the families who need help work their tails off by spending hours upon hours helping at the schools. This is not a free ride!
 
A guy I work with lives in the Lafayette area and claims kids there have a choice to go to Acalanes, Miramonte or Campolindo. Most of the better athletes choose to go to Campo. No wonder their football program is strong every year. Are there any other public's with similar arrangements?
 
It is true, the Acalanes High School District is open enrollment, meaning so long as you reside in the district, and there is space at the school, you can choose where you'd like to go to high school.
 
Bubba - when I was in high school Campo was dominant in baseball under Coach Sims and the same situation was happening then. Enrolling kids at a particular school, or transferring to a school for athletics is nothing new, but when the best player in California transfers from the best program in perhaps the country, all of sudden it is relevant. This is normal practice everywhere, and perfected in SoCal.
 
As far as I know and what I've read, scholarships are not given out according to ability. Financial aid departments are not "in-cahoots" with coaches where they pick out specific athletes to receive money because of their athletic contribution. It's strictly need based, if it happens that an outstanding athlete on a team shows need, they will receive the financial aid.
 
Bay reporter,

DLS doesn't offer any scharship based on anything other than need and the process is double blind

Until recently, DLS didn't offer full scholarships to anyone, but they've recently introduced Bishop Cummings scholarships -- I got to meet the half dozen or so kids hat graduated last year and only one was an athlete -- he is the oldest sibling being raised by a disabled single Dad and extremely high character.

To answer your question, I don't know of any kids from Richmond (I know that's where Terrence Kelley lived), but if there were any, every one of them reached into their own pockets to send a kid to DLS
 
I have coached at two Catholic high schools and I can confirm that neither offered athletic scholarships. Any scholarship money handed out was based on financial need and meeting academic requirements. Athletic scholarships at Catholic schools has long been an argument used by public school supporters but there has been no evidence to support these claims.
 
Can you explain to me the difference between 100% financial aid (with zero money being paid back) and a scholarship for an athlete that only considered the school for their athletic prowess? Please muddy the water more.
 
A good example of financial aid was the Callen brothers, from the rumors, these two needed help to get thru DLS and DLS gave their father a job...but when the kids left, what happened to the old man???
 
I work hard to earn a decent living - and of course Uncle Sam wants his massive share. My Uncle also insists I must pay for the schooling for the children in my district. My children have never attended these schools. But I still pay. I was paying before I had children and I will continue to pay until the day I die. And My Uncle will try His best to get more from me even after I die.

Because I am required to pay for children's education for public benefit, I don't care where the kids come from. But for some reason, the school districts don't have that same attitude. They insist on being paid for every child that enters their school. And because they can't be paid for children outside their zone, they won't allow children into their school without financial merit.

I talk to parents all the time that move into a particular district to get a particular type of education for their children. And even though its never publicly announced, many will move into districts where the extra-curricular (including football - shhh) programs are really good. They are simply following the rules regarding recruiting limitations.

Now I have friends who not only pay Uncle Sam for the education of every child in their district, but also donate money to scholarships for funding of children's education at private schools. These private schools have the same attitude as public schools - they don't allow children to attend their schools if they are not paid for those children's attendance.

Parents who have less means can apply for scholarship funds from these private schools. They are want a particular type of education. And even though its never publicly announced, many will apply for scholarship funding where the extra-curricular (including football - shhh) programs are really good. They are simply following the rules regarding recruiting limitations.

You want a level playing field among publics and privates, then insist public schools have open enrollment and tell Our Uncle to pay for the child's education even if its out-of-district. Or tell Our Uncle to pay the tuition of private schools, let them teach their values but simply insist that children much come from certain district regions.
 
Originally posted by Bluedog2:

A good example of financial aid was the Callen brothers, from the rumors, these two needed help to get thru DLS and DLS gave their father a job...but when the kids left, what happened to the old man???
Click to expand...
All the way around, this a no.
 
Originally posted by BayReporter:
Can you explain to me the difference between 100% financial aid (with zero money being paid back) and a scholarship for an athlete that only considered the school for their athletic prowess? Please muddy the water more.
Click to expand...
Fabulous straw man.

Good luck to CV tomorrow.
 
Good question...I wonder the same thing. I don't think it is a coincidence that these private schools and charter schools are winning year after year section titles and playing in SBG. Most of these private schools have half the enrollment than public yet the majority of privates will DOMINATE the public. Central Catholic for example is in Modesto, there are 7 public schools in Modesto and as we all know they haven't won a section title since I don't know when...but CC continues to be a power house year after year and that's because the best of the best are coming from around the area to play for them...DLS, St.Marys CV,CC MC and the rest of the privates can make their very own fantasy football team, where as publics have to play with what they have. Yes, I would say privates don't play by the same rules as publics and because they don't have to, they will continue to dominate when playing public schools.....I say have privates play privates ONLY...and public play public.
 
Originally posted by BayReporter:
Just some random thoughts:

Private schools have advantages public schools do not when it comes to prospective athletesThey can offer a better education (based on test scores). Since the majority of the student body is paying $10K a year plus, they are obviously going to be more focused and goal oriented to achieve good grades and thus better test scores. If I am a parent of an athlete, I am absolutely putting the academic environment at the top of the list, and if I can get the majority if not all the tuition covered hell yeah!I would also like to see statistics regarding the denomination of the athletes. First instance at Central Catholic or DLS, how many of the football players are actually Catholic compared to the general population at the school. Remember these are religious institutions, and I bet you will find a large disparity between the football athletes and the general school population when it comes to belonging to the school's faith of choice.They can scholarship the athlete based on their ability. The fact that you can cut the tuition anywhere from 50% to 100%, how is this not considered a recruiting tool? I understand that scholarships are available for non-athletes, but every good to great athlete has the ability to get a scholarship. How many kids that came from Richmond to play at DLS ever paid a dime?

Just curious about other's thoughts on this subject. I admire the programs put together at the institutions, and I have no problem with families taking advantage of the opportunity, but I think they absolutely have a gigantic advantage over the public sector.
Click to expand...
I think you show some ignorance, probably because you are making assumptions without really knowing the real facts and numbers, when it comes to private schools and scholarships. The maximum at DLS covers is something like 70% (I forgot exactly what the number is... but this is ball park) until very recently. And even in those cases as Pops mentioned only one was an athlete of the very few who get them. A partial grant is no small deduction, but it still leaves an expense that is far more than not paying a dime. D.J. Williams, who was arguably the best high school player to ever come out of California... certainly the best at that point of his career to play at DLS, had to have his mother sell baked goods to raise enough money to take care of the reduced tuition. It's been well documented.

Also DLS' grants I know are run through an outside company and the applicants are numbered so they have no idea which are athletes or even their names. Now of course if a kid is coming out of Richmond or Pittsburg there is a good chance they would qualify, but they can;t just identify a kid as a top athlete and give them a grant.

I personally know of many top athletes at Catholic privates who have to still pay a few grand (maybe 3 instead of 10 or 4 instead of 12 for example). The smaller prep schools tend to offer full scholarships, but they aren't typically football powerhouses and even in the case pf Sacred Heart Prep they aren't teeming with great power five conference recruits.

As for district boundaries if privates could only take those with the public boundary they would cease to exist because there wouldn't be nearly enough students whose families could afford the tuition to keep to school running.
This post was edited on 12/23 1:11 AM by bodyguard
 
Don't blame the private schools blame the parents. This problem can easily be solved by pressuring parents to send their kids to public schools with lesser academic/athletic/extracurriculars for their kids instead of the privates. All for the sake of people with little vested direct interest in the kids or the schools, other than to boast about how well their sports teams of 14-17 year old kids are doing.
 
You can't blame the parents, until you legally or financially make it impossible for parents to send their kids to private schools, how can you blame them for giving the best opportunities to their kids? I know 12--15 kids who were pulled from schools because of the institution of the Common Core this school year. If you can financially avoid sending your child to the school down the street where there is always a shooting, you do that and send them to the private school. How can you blame a parent for that?

There is a foundational problem right now and it lies with the ruling bodies. If the state, league, section is willing to ban a specific school from league or championship play, they are skirting the issue and that is getting the schools up to par academically, the public schools that is. Do away with the tenure system, the unions, make it a merit basis. I have a public school junior high principal sending his kids to a private school. What does that tell you? If the ruling bodies is unwilling to shake up the top in public schools then next best thing to do, is separate the championships into a private and public school division.
 
Bay reporter- Reporters are not supposed to be biased and agenda driven. You are supposed to report, not propagandize.
 
Interesting topic and comments made by many. I do not see a clear advantage for private schools - some privates do well in athletics while others, like Berean Christian, do not (perhaps by design). Tuition would be the biggest impediment for privates which, it would seem, limits the number of high-end athletes.

As NCSF mentioned, the advantage the public's have is community support. My kids have attended private and public schools. I found lacking at privates was a sense of community. With students coming from many cities, it stands to reason. DLS, Berean Christian, etc. are not part of the community "fabric". We've found the experience at the public's an overall more rewarding experience. DLS has a "brotherhood" while our local school has a "family".

DLS is an exception because they have the best coaches, a number of exceptional athletes and a VERY support Administration. All hands on deck at DLS. The top linemen in the area, for example, do not attend DLS (Aielo, Samia, Longson, Myers) yet their O-line is the best in the area due to athletic ability and superior coaching.

Campolindo has provided the blue print for the public's to establish a successful athletics program in a sense-able and intelligent manor. You cannot "out De La Salle" De La Salle. But you CAN "out-Campolindo" them, you can "out-Las Lomas" them, you can "out-SRVHS" them.
 
The four linemen you mentioned are outstanding. However, they are by far the best linemen on their teams. The combination or Tagaloa, Sullivan, Medeiros and others, coupled with great coaching is why the DLS line is the best.
 
Originally posted by raiderjohn:
You can't blame the parents, until you legally or financially make it impossible for parents to send their kids to private schools, how can you blame them for giving the best opportunities to their kids? I know 12--15 kids who were pulled from schools because of the institution of the Common Core this school year. If you can financially avoid sending your child to the school down the street where there is always a shooting, you do that and send them to the private school. How can you blame a parent for that?

There is a foundational problem right now and it lies with the ruling bodies. If the state, league, section is willing to ban a specific school from league or championship play, they are skirting the issue and that is getting the schools up to par academically, the public schools that is. Do away with the tenure system, the unions, make it a merit basis. ".........I have a public school junior high principal sending his kids to a private school. What does that tell you? ........"


Great discussion/points. If so many leaders of this country both Republicans & Democrats, working in Washington DC choose private schools for their children rather than DC's publics while espousing support of the publics speaks volumes about the current direction of education in this country,
Click to expand...
 
My last two kids will go to SMB because I went to SMB and my oldest went to SMB and I have 5 or 6 cousins that went to SMB. I love the place and I know they will take care of mine. The current track coach was my coach in his first year coaching there. I've known the head football coach for over 30 years since we were about 10. The D-line coach was one of my frosh assistant coaches. The current women's basketball coach (and his top assistant) was a student there when I first started coaching there. I coached most of the football staff when they were students there. And now I'm coaching the kids of my former classmates along with some of my younger cousins. It's pretty much a "family affair" all the way around. Who else would you expect me to hand my kids over too??? I have coached there for the better part of 2 decades but I paid FULL PRICE for my oldest (non-athlete) daughter and I expect the same for the last two. I simply make too much to get financial aid and there is not even "hook up" for me, an alum with years of service to the school.

It's more about fam than anything mentioned above. I don't know what this Reporter cat is talking about. LOL.
 
Hey Ballaz,Im an SMB alum as well,and the alumni are very tight,especially from the days as an all boys school.I graduated with the current Dean of Students,and alumni regularly work and coach at SMB.All the alumni I know are fiercely loyal to SM.
 
Originally posted by raiderjohn:
You can't blame the parents, until you legally or financially make it impossible for parents to send their kids to private schools, how can you blame them for giving the best opportunities to their kids? I know 12--15 kids who were pulled from schools because of the institution of the Common Core this school year. If you can financially avoid sending your child to the school down the street where there is always a shooting, you do that and send them to the private school. How can you blame a parent for that?

There is a foundational problem right now and it lies with the ruling bodies. If the state, league, section is willing to ban a specific school from league or championship play, they are skirting the issue and that is getting the schools up to par academically, the public schools that is. Do away with the tenure system, the unions, make it a merit basis. I have a public school junior high principal sending his kids to a private school. What does that tell you? If the ruling bodies is unwilling to shake up the top in public schools then next best thing to do, is separate the championships into a private and public school division.
Click to expand...
BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by BayReporter:
Just some random thoughts:





Private schools have advantages public schools do not when it comes to prospective athletes

They can offer a better education (based on test scores). Since the majority of the student body is paying $10K a year plus, they are obviously going to be more focused and goal oriented to achieve good grades and thus better test scores. If I am a parent of an athlete, I am absolutely putting the academic environment at the top of the list, and if I can get the majority if not all the tuition covered hell yeah!

I would also like to see statistics regarding the denomination of the athletes. First instance at Central Catholic or DLS, how many of the football players are actually Catholic compared to the general population at the school. Remember these are religious institutions, and I bet you will find a large disparity between the football athletes and the general school population when it comes to belonging to the school's faith of choice.

They can scholarship the athlete based on their ability. The fact that you can cut the tuition anywhere from 50% to 100%, how is this not considered a recruiting tool? I understand that scholarships are available for non-athletes, but every good to great athlete has the ability to get a scholarship. How many kids that came from Richmond to play at DLS ever paid a dime?

Just curious about other's thoughts on this subject. I admire the programs put together at the institutions, and I have no problem with families taking advantage of the opportunity, but I think they absolutely have a gigantic advantage over the public sector.
Click to expand...
Didn't we just have this thread? Why start a new one with fresh misinformation?

It seems that you're indicting DLS just for being a good school.

"Kids are more focused so it's a better school" -- Duh!

The answer to the question in bold is "every one of them" -- I'd call that a disadvantage, but I'm not going to start a post whining about it (much less 2)
This post was edited on 1/14 4:43 PM by DLSPop1314
 
Remac,

I was CB's first OLB coach when he was a frosh. LOL!!! Used to yell at him for not keeping outside contain. LOLOL!!!

When you guys were frosh, it was like my 2nd or 3rd year coaching there.

This post was edited on 1/15 12:54 AM by Ballaz28
 
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