Ref Shortage
- Thread starter H.E.A.T.
- Start date
calpreps.com posts all the games and their date on their website. They are organized by weeks and are located right under the section name on the left-hand margin:
Thursday, October 5th
DELTA
Cosumnes Oaks (Elk Grove, CA) vs. Pleasant Grove (Elk Grove, CA) at Sheldon (Sacramento, CA), 7:15pm [projection and percent chances to win: Cosumnes Oaks (Elk Grove, CA) 31 (58%) Pleasant Grove (Elk Grove, CA) 28 (42%)]
PIONEER VALLEY
Sutter (CA) at Center (Antelope, CA), 7:15pm [projection and percent chances to win: Sutter (CA) 31 (87%) Center (Antelope, CA) 14 (13%)]
WESTERN
Lathrop (CA) vs. Davis (Modesto, CA) at Downey (Modesto, CA), 7:00pm [projection and percent chances to win: Lathrop (CA) 35 (81%) Davis [Grace] (Modesto, CA) 21 (19%)]
Thursday, October 5th
DELTA
Cosumnes Oaks (Elk Grove, CA) vs. Pleasant Grove (Elk Grove, CA) at Sheldon (Sacramento, CA), 7:15pm [projection and percent chances to win: Cosumnes Oaks (Elk Grove, CA) 31 (58%) Pleasant Grove (Elk Grove, CA) 28 (42%)]
PIONEER VALLEY
Sutter (CA) at Center (Antelope, CA), 7:15pm [projection and percent chances to win: Sutter (CA) 31 (87%) Center (Antelope, CA) 14 (13%)]
WESTERN
Lathrop (CA) vs. Davis (Modesto, CA) at Downey (Modesto, CA), 7:00pm [projection and percent chances to win: Lathrop (CA) 35 (81%) Davis [Grace] (Modesto, CA) 21 (19%)]
Along with the best coaches
My nephew refs HS basketball and HS football and says within the Bay Area he has been paid $90-$100 per regular season FB game. He is now reffing JUCO games where he is being paid $200 per game...... better hours and a lot less monkey chatter from the bleachers.
People, and many good people, are leaving hs coaching, hs teaching and hs refereeing for very similar reasons:
1. The pay sucks compared to other jobs available for similarly skilled individuals. The hourly pay for most coaches is well below minimum wage. Refs are forced to travel far and wide, often with limited travel reimbursement and teachers are being paid well below what they should when compared to their importance in society.
2. The stress is high and parents are complaining more than ever when things are not exactly perfect for their kids, because they don't understand that a moderate amount of adversity is actually a positive experience for students and athletes. It is not fun working in this environment.
3. There are more and more rules, training requirements etc. that must be met. What you can teach is more and more limited and controlled. Teachers, coaches and refs are scrutinized far more than they were 10-20 years ago. At the same time, going back to 1., the pay has not increased.
4. School administrators are not as supportive of teachers, coaches and refs as they should be.
This will likely worsen in the years to come if each of these problems remain unaddressed.
1. The pay sucks compared to other jobs available for similarly skilled individuals. The hourly pay for most coaches is well below minimum wage. Refs are forced to travel far and wide, often with limited travel reimbursement and teachers are being paid well below what they should when compared to their importance in society.
2. The stress is high and parents are complaining more than ever when things are not exactly perfect for their kids, because they don't understand that a moderate amount of adversity is actually a positive experience for students and athletes. It is not fun working in this environment.
3. There are more and more rules, training requirements etc. that must be met. What you can teach is more and more limited and controlled. Teachers, coaches and refs are scrutinized far more than they were 10-20 years ago. At the same time, going back to 1., the pay has not increased.
4. School administrators are not as supportive of teachers, coaches and refs as they should be.
This will likely worsen in the years to come if each of these problems remain unaddressed.
These are good points and the general trend has me worried about HS sports over the next decade. With these factors listed above plus more non traditional HS options being offered, the landscape will for sure change and doesn't seem like it will be more sustainable than previous model
What's happening in the foothills, which is not horribly different than what's been happening in the bay area, is that there is a voluntary migration of families that value athletics. They congregate in places (SFL/WCAL) where they make it loud and clear that they are placing a premium on coaches, facilities and overall support. And not ashamed of it, nor should they be.
This area, once considered to be the last safe haven for public school football, is now starting to see the long term effects of new age administration and community apathy. Some schools are simply choosing not to compete by slowly chipping away at athletics classes, on campus coaches, and allowing inter district transfers without a second thought. It's like the analogy of the tree-whether you cut it down or don't water it, the tree still dies. But it draws less attention if you do the latter. These schools want football only for the sake of a homecoming gate and a place for the band to play, but have no intention of doing anything to elevate the program. They wouldn't flat out drop football (too much stink) but they might as well in some cases.
What we are ending up with is similar to what happened 20 plus years ago on the peninsula. Some of it is demographics, some of it is politics. But ultimately you end up with some schools that understand and accept the immense infrastructure needed to win football games (athletes, parent support, on campus coaches, athletic sections, etc.) And others who willfully ignore those realities and claim "This is the best we can do given our circumstances."
Sad state of affairs.
These are some very well written and articulated summaries on what is happening. You guys nailed it.
Thanks. I had an account many years ago and hadn't had the urge to jump on until I read this thread.
$100/game? for a bit over 2 hrs work? for something that should be fun and enjoyable?
I would totally do this, if it wasn't the worst job in the world... getting yelled at for 2 hours by both sides of the stands, with potential life threatening circumstances if you make the wrong call against the wrong kid? I love sports, and I think i could be a good official after a few years of on the job training and mentoring... but why would I subject myself to the negativity?
Great takes!
It's sad to see the decline of high school sports, especially football. The success of schools in the SFL and WCAL conferences suggests that they prioritize and invest more in their athletic programs. I'd argue that there are several programs that enjoy comparable success, such as MCClymonds, DLS, San Ramon Valley, Inderkum, Grant, Pittsburgh, Monterey Trails, St. Mary's, and Manteca.
What sets the SFL and WCAL schools apart is that, unlike other conferences in NorCal, they have enjoyed the benefit of being intentionally paired together, regardless of size.
It would be interesting to see what a conference comprised of St.Mary's, Manteca, Central Catholic, Tracy, and Turlock would look like. Would a league consisting of SRV, DLS, Pitt, and California would be stronger than the SFL/WCAL? A league consisting of Grant, Inderkum, Jesuit, Monterey Trails, Elk Grove, and Sheldon might be considered the best major sports league (Basketball/Football) in SJS, maybe NorCal.
It is also important to consider the longevity and consistency of schools such as DLS, Grant, Pittsburg, St. Mary's, and McClymonds, as they have been successful for over 40 years.
The SFL schools have benefited from primarily being one-school towns, and it will be interesting to see if football in the foothills gets watered down with the growth taking place along I-80, similar to what happened in Elk Grove.
Introducing club football and basketball statewide, similar to the structure in soccer, could provide a platform for dedicated athletes to continue honing their skills outside traditional high school programs. This could elevate the level of competition and offer a solution for those passionate about athletics. It could create a more level playing field and allow talent from various regions to develop and shine. The key would be ensuring accessibility and inclusivity so that socioeconomic factors don't become barriers to participation.
Do you think introducing club football and basketball, similar to what we see in soccer, would positively impact the overall sports scene in the state?
It's sad to see the decline of high school sports, especially football. The success of schools in the SFL and WCAL conferences suggests that they prioritize and invest more in their athletic programs. I'd argue that there are several programs that enjoy comparable success, such as MCClymonds, DLS, San Ramon Valley, Inderkum, Grant, Pittsburgh, Monterey Trails, St. Mary's, and Manteca.
What sets the SFL and WCAL schools apart is that, unlike other conferences in NorCal, they have enjoyed the benefit of being intentionally paired together, regardless of size.
It would be interesting to see what a conference comprised of St.Mary's, Manteca, Central Catholic, Tracy, and Turlock would look like. Would a league consisting of SRV, DLS, Pitt, and California would be stronger than the SFL/WCAL? A league consisting of Grant, Inderkum, Jesuit, Monterey Trails, Elk Grove, and Sheldon might be considered the best major sports league (Basketball/Football) in SJS, maybe NorCal.
It is also important to consider the longevity and consistency of schools such as DLS, Grant, Pittsburg, St. Mary's, and McClymonds, as they have been successful for over 40 years.
The SFL schools have benefited from primarily being one-school towns, and it will be interesting to see if football in the foothills gets watered down with the growth taking place along I-80, similar to what happened in Elk Grove.
Introducing club football and basketball statewide, similar to the structure in soccer, could provide a platform for dedicated athletes to continue honing their skills outside traditional high school programs. This could elevate the level of competition and offer a solution for those passionate about athletics. It could create a more level playing field and allow talent from various regions to develop and shine. The key would be ensuring accessibility and inclusivity so that socioeconomic factors don't become barriers to participation.
Do you think introducing club football and basketball, similar to what we see in soccer, would positively impact the overall sports scene in the state?
As California gets to be more of what it is now, football will continue to decline. It goes hand in hand. I think we will always have some however it will continue to decline at publics.
Club basketball already exists, but an interesting comment and idea you suggest about club football. Could and probably will happen before too long.
My bad, I meant in season club basketball. That which replaces the HIgh School basketball season.
I wouldn't quite agree with life threatening. Sure there are outliers (see YouTube "ref attacked.")
Bruh wears a white hat locally and yes, $100 is chump change compared to the 9-5 most of us get. And it's not a 2 hour stint, more like 4 with pregame, etc. FB has tons of film so Ref associations are keen with their evaluations. Do an exemplary job and you move up quickly. So refs like that...when they're good. Getting paid mileage is typically not included . That's goes on your 1040 along with the 1099 officials get. Roughly, $25/hour for prep/calling the game/ driving to-fro. In n out pays that to flip burgers.
Put on the plastic recently. . Some issues are those with deep experience have little time to evaluate as they're stretched so thin they need to be on the field. So....less experienced umps slave away hoping a partner evaluator gives them a good report, which IS systemized, albeit more subjective, I.e. no film. One accepts such a system, imperfect as it is.
Yes, running a sideline gets verbal, but I've heard/used TACT as a learned method in cooling hotheads, as does, "anymore and you join the fans." The Angel Hernandez egos are not as common as one would think.
Frankly, there are lots of "thanks Blue" as the coaches do a nice job of making (HS) players aware of the staffing difficulties.
Quick aside: club football in- season is not in any business plan! IMG can do it with $$$ backing. Bishop Sycamore (BS!) became the poster child for that nonsense. There already is an avenue through Private schools and open boundaries.
The True Story Behind HBO's 'BS High'
The documentary chronicles the fallout from a high school football scandal that rocked the sports world
Last Friday SI at St Francis there were 5 officials. I've seen a few other WCAL games this year(Northern Schools) were 7 officials were used. I find it hard to believe St Francis couldn't spend a couple of hundred $ for 2 Back Judges. Is this the norm?
......welcome back Primo mío, is somebody getting their BarcaLounger reupholstered or their fresas dentales afiladas y pulidas ?I wouldn't quite agree with life threatening. Sure there are outliers (see YouTube "ref attacked.")
Bruh wears a white hat locally and yes, $100 is chump change compared to the 9-5 most of us get. And it's not a 2 hour stint, more like 4 with pregame, etc. FB has tons of film so Ref associations are keen with their evaluations. Do an exemplary job and you move up quickly. So refs like that...when they're good. Getting paid mileage is typically not included . That's goes on your 1040 along with the 1099 officials get. Roughly, $25/hour for prep/calling the game/ driving to-fro. In n out pays that to flip burgers.
Put on the plastic recently. . Some issues are those with deep experience have little time to evaluate as they're stretched so thin they need to be on the field. So....less experienced umps slave away hoping a partner evaluator gives them a good report, which IS systemized, albeit more subjective, I.e. no film. One accepts such a system, imperfect as it is.
Yes, running a sideline gets verbal, but I've heard/used TACT as a learned method in cooling hotheads, as does, "anymore and you join the fans." The Angel Hernandez egos are not as common as one would think.
Frankly, there are lots of "thanks Blue" as the coaches do a nice job of making (HS) players aware of the staffing difficulties.
Quick aside: club football in- season is not in any business plan! IMG can do it with $$$ backing. Bishop Sycamore (BS!) became the poster child for that nonsense. There already is an avenue through Private schools and open boundaries.
The True Story Behind HBO's 'BS High'
The documentary chronicles the fallout from a high school football scandal that rocked the sports worldtime.com
It should be 7. But I don’t thinks of it as a $$ issue. Its more of a numbers. Realistically there probably wasn’t 2 extra bodies available on Friday night to pull from.
Southern California and Texas traditionally over the years have had more Thursday night games. Arizona is now seeing more Thursday night games specifically due to a ref shortage. That way they can spread crews out and get more coverage over two nights.
So many reasons for the shortage. But just look at the age of the officials. If you think there is a shortage today just wait for 5 years as more and more officials retire. Too many new officials quit after 1-2 seasons because of the abuse they take from fans and coaches. It is just not worth the abuse for a few extra bucks
well, let's say you work fb, jv and varsity.. so assuming $200 for both games.I wouldn't quite agree with life threatening. Sure there are outliers (see YouTube "ref attacked.")
Bruh wears a white hat locally and yes, $100 is chump change compared to the 9-5 most of us get. And it's not a 2 hour stint, more like 4 with pregame, etc. FB has tons of film so Ref associations are keen with their evaluations. Do an exemplary job and you move up quickly. So refs like that...when they're good. Getting paid mileage is typically not included . That's goes on your 1040 along with the 1099 officials get. Roughly, $25/hour for prep/calling the game/ driving to-fro. In n out pays that to flip burgers.
Put on the plastic recently. . Some issues are those with deep experience have little time to evaluate as they're stretched so thin they need to be on the field. So....less experienced umps slave away hoping a partner evaluator gives them a good report, which IS systemized, albeit more subjective, I.e. no film. One accepts such a system, imperfect as it is.
Yes, running a sideline gets verbal, but I've heard/used TACT as a learned method in cooling hotheads, as does, "anymore and you join the fans." The Angel Hernandez egos are not as common as one would think.
Frankly, there are lots of "thanks Blue" as the coaches do a nice job of making (HS) players aware of the staffing difficulties.
Quick aside: club football in- season is not in any business plan! IMG can do it with $$$ backing. Bishop Sycamore (BS!) became the poster child for that nonsense. There already is an avenue through Private schools and open boundaries.
The True Story Behind HBO's 'BS High'
The documentary chronicles the fallout from a high school football scandal that rocked the sports world
these guys don't show up until 30 min before. and they jet right after. so 4:30-9:30... 5 hrs, $40/hr. not chump change. And the premise is: geez, I love sports, I know sports, it seems like it'd be a fun side gig... for $40/ hr? sign me up.
basketball? even shorter games. 3 games, from 4 to 9... $300 for 5-6 hours? assuming they pay the same for freshmen/jv... maybe not?
as far as life threatening:
the coaches would be the least of my worries. The stands is where I'd be nervous, of course, depending on the location. Football might be less... insulated from the fans... but all it takes is one perceived slight and they wait for you in the parking lot.
basketball is definitely worse.... I've seen more than once, parents having to be held back from charging the ref. The heckling is sometimes unbearable. And if it's an intense game, emotions run high, and lots of people have issues controlling their emotions. And if you happen to be an incompetent ref, as many beginners might be... lord help you, in even the most meaningless of games.
should be a fun side gig. No thanks.
From a football officiating standpoint I can honestly say the product has declined tremendously. These guys may lack experience and numbers but they lack pride. Week in and week out I see lack of rules knowledge and poor mechanics. Pay has nothing to do with it, if you do not like the pay do not sign up. You have to have thick skin as an official but if you know rules and mechanics generally speaking you will be respected. Coaches and players put in a tremendous amount of time than officials do. I have a lot of respect for the ones who take time to perfect their craft; sadly most do not.
I agree with this part 100%. With that said, there are still some crews that do take pride and ownership to do the best job possible. They are few and far between, but they are still out there. I don't know whether I should put my hat in the ring to coach or to become an official, as both areas are struggling. Which would one have a greater impact for the future of this great game?
Great question. I lean toward officials but you need a certain number to cover all of the games and it gets tripled with the three lelves. For coaches, staff size can decrease and what the program offers can decrease in a break the glass situation. But I could also see the argument for the other side too.
You are spot on that both are vital and both are decreasing
if refs knew the rules and stopped blowing obvious calls they wouldn't get cussed out so often. it's ridiculous having to have the same rule applied different every week and the refs can't even explain why. cif/newsom need to step in and fix this before someone gets hurt or the sport gets ruined.
Newsom, want something ruined, call in Gavin!
U are missing the point . . . refs do not get paid enough. The requirements, training etc have gotten more burdensome. Pay has not matched that. THerefore many of the good and experienced refs spend their time doing other things.
Refs are tired of dealing with the crazy parents, the crazy coaches, the entitled athletes who do not respect the game or the refs . . . so as a result many of the good and experienced refs leave. It is just a cycle.
Until these items are adjusted, I think it is foolish to expect quality refereeing at most high school events.
