Two Teams Instead of Three?
- Thread starter Bubba3000
- Start date
I am with WWHS44, SFL still not having trouble fielding three teams.
I guess the only way it would affect them is if they can’t find games because every other league has dropped their freshman team.
I guess the only way it would affect them is if they can’t find games because every other league has dropped their freshman team.
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Unless I’m mistaken, Grant Union is the only SFL program w/o a frosh team, right?
Are the frosh for all other SFL programs only playing 9 games or are all of them finding non-league games to backfill?
Not sure about the other teams but I know the Thunder and Golden Eagles played 10.
It would make sense to go to a true junior varsity model in order to keep frosh football. Northern California has largely been playing sophomore football instead of JV football. The difference being that with sophomore football, you limit yourself to a single grade level and there are not typically enough sophomores left (after the best of the group move up to varsity and the typical attrition after freshman year) to field a full team. Freshman football typically has enough players because nobody gets pulled up to varsity and there are some kids who try football freshman year, but don't play in subsequent years. In a true JV model, the sophomores would all practice with the varsity team and then some combination of juniors and sophomores who are not expected to play significant minutes, suit up for the JV game. The only challenge is that some kids would be starters for the JV game and need to be back ups for the varsity game (especially QB's). This format would also help with coaches as there would be less staff needed. The coaches could be paid a little more and some of those lower level coaching positions that can be hard to fill with qualified candidates would be eliminated.
Some of the smaller or lesser programs are losing kids and reducing to two programs. Some of the bigger or better programs have more kids out than ever.
We have kicked around the idea of having 3 teams (A, B and C). I think we had seven Juniors play JV last year and two or three Freshman play JV. Lots of good programs are trying to install their best plan for all 3 levels, we are adapting to a model that best fits for us, for our players, and our program. It will always be fluid, just like our practice schedule, just like the way we train and maintain the players health and saftey, and just like the way we attack the players academics and their future.
We have kicked around the idea of having 3 teams (A, B and C). I think we had seven Juniors play JV last year and two or three Freshman play JV. Lots of good programs are trying to install their best plan for all 3 levels, we are adapting to a model that best fits for us, for our players, and our program. It will always be fluid, just like our practice schedule, just like the way we train and maintain the players health and saftey, and just like the way we attack the players academics and their future.
Yeah, I was too lazy to look when I replied earlier. But it looks like everyone was able to book an extra non-league game.
It's funny you mention this cause I've done a lot of historic research on HS football and back in the 60's and earlier, most programs referred to their squads as 'A' and 'B' teams. Even earlier than that, the 'B' team was often referred to as 'Ramblers'.
It was also quite common for a Varsity team to play an actual game against a JV opponent. Imagine that happening today!
When I played in the late 80's and coached in the 90's and 2000's, it wasn't uncommon to have Varsity/JV intra-scrimmages. But we never played an actual game against a JV opponent. Times were a lot different before the explosion of new high schools in the 60's.
Oddly, in doing my research, I've consistently seen news articles regarding declining participation numbers and various programs sometimes finding it difficult to fields teams all through out the 50's, 60's and 70's. It's a cyclical issue, but for different reasons.
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In the Central Coast Section (which includes Silicon Valley), changing demographics (an influx of Asians, Filipinos, Indians, etc.) are a huge factor in the clear decline in prep football numbers. Combine that with concussion fears and it's a perfect storm in CCS.
Im sure concussion concerns are sizeable reason why FB numbers are down at the lower levels of FB. Soccer has the biggest drop off participation in youth sports and has higher % of concussions compared to FB. Im not smart enough to know if concussions are the reason why their numbers are down.
I do think numbers are down because football and sports are hard.
We demand a ton of accountability and time for FB. Our kids must workout at 6am or 330pm or be enrolled in weight class with our FB coaches. They are monitored daily, they must all workout 4x's a week with our team, no exceptions. They get weekly grade checked, they get calls home if they miss class, weights or any school/personel problems. We put a weekly/monthly effort chart for every player, parent, student and recruiter to see. We keep daily attendence and its posted next to effort depth chart in our main hallway, it's right next to all scholarship players, FB records and awards.
I said all that to say: Yes there are health concerns but more kids are quiting because of effort they have to give and the accountability to themselves, teammates and the program. More kids would rather sit at home in the AC or hang with friends rather than compete and a high level daily at 6am or in the summers @100 degree plus temps.
I do think numbers are down because football and sports are hard.
We demand a ton of accountability and time for FB. Our kids must workout at 6am or 330pm or be enrolled in weight class with our FB coaches. They are monitored daily, they must all workout 4x's a week with our team, no exceptions. They get weekly grade checked, they get calls home if they miss class, weights or any school/personel problems. We put a weekly/monthly effort chart for every player, parent, student and recruiter to see. We keep daily attendence and its posted next to effort depth chart in our main hallway, it's right next to all scholarship players, FB records and awards.
I said all that to say: Yes there are health concerns but more kids are quiting because of effort they have to give and the accountability to themselves, teammates and the program. More kids would rather sit at home in the AC or hang with friends rather than compete and a high level daily at 6am or in the summers @100 degree plus temps.
This applies to any area around the State and Country where Technology hubs are sprouting as there are shortages of scientists, engineers and mathematicians (cryptography) available.
...but no California section is home to the massive and influential likes of Google, Facebook, H-P, Genentech, Apple, etc...they are re-making the face, populace, culture of the 70-mile corridor from SF to Gilroy...it is unprecedented...nothing else like it in the Far West...
Somewhat correct, Col. But High Tech/Bio Tech companies are also battling the high cost of living in the Bay Area and are building sites in the suburbs like Sacramento - (I.e. Intel (Folsom), Apple, HP and IT teams for Delta Dental, Willams-Sonoma, etc.) .
I agree with this. I have one of them in my house that is out of the house before 6 each morning to lift with his teammates, he does independent workouts on his own three evenings a week and suffers through the season with hard workouts, practices and constant focus on his grades by me and his coaches. Coach is right.
We are raising a generation of soft men. Some of his friends prefer to sit at home and play video games rather than do anything. It’s sad and they’re not bad kids they just have bad habits in my opinion and parents are not addressing them in a strong way.
For me, the football coaches are a God send and football is the best experience to prepare for life my son could have right now because the men who coach him care about him and keep him accountable.
It’s too bad there are a generation of parents, who in my opinion are doing their kids a disservice. I’m grateful my community is more old school in this regard.
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@mistark @RidgeRider
Excellent points. In this day and age of tablets, phones, and video games, kids are less interested than ever before in doing any type of physical activity — let alone if it’s hot outside and/or difficult. The level of responsibility, accountability and commitment required also is a turn off. It’s easier and less stressful to do other things.
I have a 10 year old cousin, who was born prematurely and has always been small for his age, does nothing but play online games with a headset on and watch YouTube videos. If I can get him to go over to the park with my nieces, they ride bicycles while he rides a hover board ...... with his headphones on. Despite being the most in dire need of physical activity and socialization, he shies away from it.
Unfortunately I believe a lot more kids are becoming self involved like this due to technology and parenting. And it’s a huge factor, along with the concussion scare, why participation is down. As has been brought up by others, participation is down in other sports too, likely for the same reason.
Excellent points. In this day and age of tablets, phones, and video games, kids are less interested than ever before in doing any type of physical activity — let alone if it’s hot outside and/or difficult. The level of responsibility, accountability and commitment required also is a turn off. It’s easier and less stressful to do other things.
I have a 10 year old cousin, who was born prematurely and has always been small for his age, does nothing but play online games with a headset on and watch YouTube videos. If I can get him to go over to the park with my nieces, they ride bicycles while he rides a hover board ...... with his headphones on. Despite being the most in dire need of physical activity and socialization, he shies away from it.
Unfortunately I believe a lot more kids are becoming self involved like this due to technology and parenting. And it’s a huge factor, along with the concussion scare, why participation is down. As has been brought up by others, participation is down in other sports too, likely for the same reason.
Team sports, particularly football have had a huge play in shaping my own son into the man he is today. It's the same story for many others. Sports isn't everything but in my opinion, it can be an important part of life balance.
My wife swears by the same. She’s told me several times now that she wished she’d agreed to allow our son to start earlier than he did. He played flag for several years before I finally convinced her to let him (my step son) participate in 8th grade. He played 1 season of Midget and 1 tournament before beginning HS.
While he played for 5 years, which was adequate time to shape him, his mom now believes he should have started playing 1-2 years earlier.
As you said, football is the ultimate team sport and fosters team work, camaraderie and the feeling of ‘family’ more than any other. My wife recognizes the effect it had on our boy.
Some people like the coaching staff at Cal High and some don't. One thing I always appreciated about them is they stress accountability.
Ice hockey, a very physical sport, is similar when it comes to male bonding.
I don't care where you are from you should let your kids play football. It is a great sport that teaches young men alot about themselves. End of story. Unfortunately popular culture has created this backlash mired in concussion, depression and any other ailment you may have is attributed to you playing football. Let the young men play football. Physical Activity is dying in our country. Football taught me about strength training and the importance of strength training. Football taught me...I better be F'ing Ready...cuz that dude across from me is trying to mow me down. Football taught me Special Teams...is where the S*!T goes down! And to keep my head on a Swivel! Football taught me to be brave and not to boast or to brag. If I did...I would get my cleats cleanly dislodged from the playing surface shortly thereafter. THE HUMBLER! We all need to be humbled at some point in our young lives. But you can never be humbled and grow when you are afraid to step out of your house away from the video game console.
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To me the risk involved with playing football is totally worth it. Not to downplay head injuries but have you ever noticed the guys that typically have long term issues are the one's that start playing tackle football when they are around 6 years old and have a 10+ year pro career? That's roughly 25 straight years of playing football.
Right. The evidence isn't there that CTE is an epidemic for those only playing up to and through HS. Do health officials believe they have discovered some example cases? Yes. (Although what else did those individuals do in their lives that could have also contributed?) But it's nowhere close to those participating through college and/or pro.
Since a very small percentage of HS players ever play in college and a very small percentage of those players ever play professionally, it's not the widespread problem many have been fooled into believing.
Having said that, the longer and younger someone participates, the greater the risk. Knowing that, I likely wouldn't start them playing til around 6th grade. IMO, 3 seasons experience prior to HS is plenty of time to learn fundamentals and to lose the fear of contact so that they're not behind the 8 ball during their freshman season. 1 season of experience is probably enough for many, but I prefer the extra experience. And I feel 6th grade (11- 12 years old) is not too early.
But for the overly cautious, having them not start til their 8th grade year (13-14) is adequate too IMO. I didn't want my son's 1st season to be his frosh year w/ other kids that had multiple years experience. I believe having that 1 season of experience before HS helped him adapt tremendously. As I said, my wife now agrees with me and wishes he'd got another season or two under his belt.
Another factor is that in college and pro, the average impact and the amount that occur are much greater than for the typical HS kid. 4+ years of that -- on top of HS -- is going to have more of an impact.
It also depends on what position junior plays. If your son is starting both ways in youth football as a running back and linebacker, he’ll likely be exposed to many more full speed concussive hard hits. Whereas youth lineman aren’t as exposed to the more violent collisions that occur on the lines in the college or pro games.
To me the second year of tackle football is where I see the biggest improvement in most players. I've seen some guys biggest improvement in year 3.
I used to think linemen were pretty safe but now I'm hearing because they make head contact on pretty much every play, they are also at high risk. However, in the lower levels of youth football most linemen stand straight up when the ball is snapped, as opposed to firing off the line.
You guys are pretty much spot on. But recognize that the developing brain (kids) is much more susceptible and impacted- no pun intended- than adults’. Pair that with the fact sub-concussive events are factually damaging too.
That said, my two played starting in 8th, 9th.
They really liked the fact of “legalized assault” in HSFB. Since they both excelled (coaches said, “they’re smart. They’ll play skill O.”) one broke records, the other out-statted the perennial powerhouses first teamer. The 8th started Frolsh. The 9th had to wait for JV, then went both ways. And their program was pretty recognizable at that time. For us, “pee wees” was not on the radar. Frankly, watching some ridiculously out of shape coaches getting 8-10 year olds running Oklahomas, made that an easy call. No thanks Biff.
In the Bay Area (unlike Hollywood!) kids have to work really hard to get into a UC or an Ivy. There were zero after-school tutoring centers in the Tri- Valley ten years ago. Now there are probs twenty. So the many many hours of certain athletic demands (mine were dual sporters; summers were brutal) do not coincide with the desire of parents pushing a higher SAT/ACT and 2-3 APs every year. Been there too, without the helicoptering.
So, kids say if “I play Xbox, get a 4.4 and a 1500+ then I’ll be driving a Tesla too when I’m 30.” The same kids are “toughening up,”- their parents vision, not mine- at the same strip mall as the tutor in Tae Kwon Do or Karate. Seems like a direct correlation.
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Doesn't look like there will be one this season either.
I don't think it was about any "issue". After all, they won 6 games each the past two seasons against schools with JV teams.
Maybe it will turn out to be a good idea.
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Your kid and Other kids who excel in this environment have a true love for the sport. It also seems to me that they will also have a strong advantage in the game of life when they take those traits into the workforce someday.
Already a reality in the MCAL and other leagues.
An eventual reality for all public schools.
An eventual reality for all public schools.
We all know that football teaches young men many life lessons. I believe the most valuable lesson of all is delayed gratification. In the information world we live in knowledge is at our fingertips at all times. In football one must train many hours to prepare to play a game that will only be available to them a dozen or so times in an entire season. Think about that.
Well said. Yet the aspect of teamwork can never, ever be underestimated; in work, relationships and, why many contribute on this site- raising children.
