Wrench Thrown Into CCS Playoffs?

[BvalBooster]

Pretty significant development out of the Southern Part of CCS. Looks like there will not be a Palma/Serra Matchup again this year. Imagine being a C/B- league Champion getting the awesome opportunity to play Palma round 1 of the Playoffs. Looks like a Lion might have just got thrown into the den of the DIV/DV Bracket.


View: https://twitter.com/JohnJDevine/status/1706750729938256090?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

 

[FBAddict]

The Serra/Palma or any top team and Palma has not been an issue for a every long time. Nevertheless, I see where you are going with this post. Very likely, Palma will end up 4-6 record with 3 LCI B team opponents and 7 LCI A team opponents. They should maintain a automatic qualifier with such a record. This record might be good enough for a DIII placement or lower.

As strange as it seems, Palma might have struck upon a new strategy to get, at the least, a CCS title if not more.

 

[Slamburger408]

The Serra/Palma or any top team and Palma has not been an issue for a every long time. Nevertheless, I see where you are going with this post. Very likely, Palma will end up 4-6 record with 3 LCI B team opponents and 7 LCI A team opponents. They should maintain a automatic qualifier with such a record. This record might be good enough for a DIII placement or lower.

As strange as it seems, Palma might have struck upon a new strategy to get, at the least, a CCS title if not more.

If this is truly a strategy to get placed in an inferior bracket, I'm disgusted. I don't for a second believe it was intentional, but how does half a season pass without this being addressed?? Forfeiting one or two games has happened before but five is outrageous. Especially now since they are favored to win any division below 2. There needs to be some type of safeguard in place to prevent this convenient mistake from occurring.

 

[BvalBooster]

I agree. and as for a new strategy, possible. However, I feel like some of those 4-6 or even 3-7 A-league teams, that For whatever reason (case specific) made it into the playoffs have advanced and made runs due to being placed into a lower bracket.

If I'm not mistaken, that was the case for Palo Alto and Santa Teresa last year and they played against each other in a State Regional Game. An ineligible player for half of your season is pretty negligent. Forfeit 50% of your SEASON and and still receive a CCS Playoff birth.. in a lower division that is below your competition level.

 

[RLS13]

Palma forfeit
Here is a link to the story (Maybe a pay wall)

Palma was beaten by Monterey last week. They were going to finish 3rd or 4th the at best in the Gabilan this year (they still can). Their three wins were vs B league teams. They were not making the cut to DI this year anyways. In my opinion, this was not intentional. Their schedule, yes, that was probably done intentionally to keep in DII or DII.

 

[Cortezraiders831]

CCS leadership needs to step up and show some direction. This whole system is flawed if this somehow works in their favor come playoff time. Mistake or not, how do you directly or indirectly reward them with a lower bracket? Should make the playoffs IF they qualify based on their points/ being an automatic qualifier but still get placed based on the wins/points that they would have had.

 

[thehookup55]

If CCS really wanted to punish them they should make them play in DI.

Palma was already playing to be in DII or DIII. Their schedule made that fairly obvious. We will have to see how things shake out but palma has no business being in a division below DIII. They are not the powerhouse they used to be, but look what they did to their non league opponents in their 3 wins. Those will be the quality of teams in those lower divisions. I am sure there will be a few teams that slip through the cracks like always with the flawed CCS playoff format.

Anyone who thinks this could have been done intentionally is a moron. They got a slap on the wrist because it was self reported and they have never had issues prior in any of their sports programs. They had no clue what penalty CCS was going to give them. This could have been way worse and there is no way they would have gambled that to be placed in a lower playoff bracket.

 

[NCS707]

This is why I’m not a fan of the CCS playoffs. Palma may be awarded a lower (easier) playoff bracket? Just like how SHC was mediocre in 2021 (even losing to Riordan) and was gifted a “state title.” Props to them for winning the games on their schedule and starting a nice 2 year run but it makes little sense.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

From what I understand, it was not intentional and basic stupidity as far as reason for the ineligibility (should have been caught early). Wouldn't have impacted any of the game scores. I do think the schedule was designed to keep them out of the top division. Palma probaby is another 2 years from having a team that can compete with many of the top bracket. Their frosh team has numbers and athletes. They get decent numbers next season in the underclass and could be a turnaround. This senior class has underperformed so far. It is my opinion they should play more of their top players both ways with exception of QB because of depth at that position but that is me. Interestingly Monterey Coach Besaw was OC at Salinas and Palma and worked with a couple D1 QBs...one is starting at San Diego. Palma losing its OC seems to have been a big deal especially in working with their QB. Monterey's QB Jr. Preston White (6-4, 200) is a solid D1 prospect with a couple very good WR prospects. If Monterey had numbers and some size on the lines, they would be able to compete at a higher class level

 

[Rocknrolus 95361]

From what I understand, it was not intentional and basic stupidity as far as reason for the ineligibility (should have been caught early). Wouldn't have impacted any of the game scores. I do think the schedule was designed to keep them out of the top division. Palma probaby is another 2 years from having a team that can compete with many of the top bracket. Their frosh team has numbers and athletes. They get decent numbers next season in the underclass and could be a turnaround. This senior class has underperformed so far. It is my opinion they should play more of their top players both ways with exception of QB because of depth at that position but that is me. Interestingly Monterey Coach Besaw was OC at Salinas and Palma and worked with a couple D1 QBs...one is starting at San Diego. Palma losing its OC seems to have been a big deal especially in working with their QB. Monterey's QB Jr. Preston White (6-4, 200) is a solid D1 prospect with a couple very good WR prospects. If Monterey had numbers and some size on the lines, they would be able to compete at a higher class level

Can the under performance be from them missing a year of football? Their freshman year covid. I was wondering about that. Because I see poorly made tackling. And lots of penalties.

 

[Cal 14]

This is why I’m not a fan of the CCS playoffs. Palma may be awarded a lower (easier) playoff bracket? Just like how SHC was mediocre in 2021 (even losing to Riordan) and was gifted a “state title.” Props to them for winning the games on their schedule and starting a nice 2 year run but it makes little sense.

Yes, and Marin Catholic being able to hide in NCS D-IV was so much better.

Ooooh! Now, they're in D-III? They'll probably steamroll that division, too.

 

[Cal 14]

If CCS really wanted to punish them they should make them play in DI.

Palma was already playing to be in DII or DIII. Their schedule made that fairly obvious. We will have to see how things shake out but palma has no business being in a division below DIII. They are not the powerhouse they used to be, but look what they did to their non league opponents in their 3 wins. Those will be the quality of teams in those lower divisions. I am sure there will be a few teams that slip through the cracks like always with the flawed CCS playoff format.

Anyone who thinks this could have been done intentionally is a moron. They got a slap on the wrist because it was self reported and they have never had issues prior in any of their sports programs. They had no clue what penalty CCS was going to give them. This could have been way worse and there is no way they would have gambled that to be placed in a lower playoff bracket.

I feel that this could spark a debate within the CCS, but the CIF has repeatedly reinforced that a forfeit loss was viewed no differently than a regular loss...

That said, Calpreps.com does not view them that way and the CIF generally uses that site to seed teams for the state bowls (the CCS does too, to a certain extent). If any justice may come from this, it could be that they win D-IV, but then are placed in a higher state division. That is probably only one of the few corrections available. The other may be no home games if they end up as a high seed in a lower division.

 

[thehookup55]

I feel that this could spark a debate within the CCS, but the CIF has repeatedly reinforced that a forfeit loss was viewed no differently than a regular loss...

That said, Calpreps.com does not view them that way and the CIF generally uses that site to seed teams for the state bowls (the CCS does too, to a certain extent). If any justice may come from this, it could be that they win D-IV, but then are placed in a higher state division. That is probably only one of the few corrections available. The other may be no home games if they end up as a high seed in a lower division.

I agree. I think CCS will hear from some schools after this situation. Factor in the private vs public forever debate and people will not be happy in those lower divisions. Someone will have to remind them they are competing for 25th and 33rd place so its not really that big of a deal.

 

[BvalBooster]

If you ask me, which nobody has, I feel like one option that can help keep things as equitable as possible would be to have the offending team keep the accumulated CCS points (looks like calpreps is doin the same) but also award Soledad, King City, and Alisal their points for the forfeits. It would balance things out the best.

Also, maybe adding a .500 win percentage requirement to qualify for the playoffs could add more merit to playoff qualification.

This could be a series of unfortunate events as if this happened to a B league team who'd basically rely on an automatic qualifying placement or those accumulated CCS Points to even make the playoffs, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Between that, it happening to a prestigious program, and just showing how a team can go 4-6 or 3-7 and still auto qualify for the playoffs, it's amplifying things.

 

[FBAddict]

As strange as it seems, Palma might have struck upon a new strategy to get, at the least, a CCS title if not more.

I used this comment in jest or in a satiric way. I did not at all mean in infer that Palma planned to use an ineligible player to purposefully gain an unfair advantage in playoffs.

However, it is one of the CCS unintended flaws, similar to the NCS enrollment-based divisions, that create a playoff problem.

As mentioned by Cal 14, the CalPrpeps factor will correct a bit of this CCS playoff flaw.

 

[mybrainhurts]

The whole system is flawed. Santa Teresa played for a State championship and only play 1 league champ in the playoffs. A B league champ. They finished 2-3 in league and their opponent in the State game finished 1-2 in their league. What a joke for either of them to be a considered a State champ when you have far superior teams losing in the first round of their section playoffs.

 

[colhenrylives]

"State Championship" is a misnomer. Each of these December matchups should be listed as a "CIF Equity Bowl Game." That includes the Open Division for which, as it is for all other bowl participants, there is no real, seeded statewide playoff.

 

[Cal 14]

The whole system is flawed. Santa Teresa played for a State championship and only play 1 league champ in the playoffs. A B league champ. They finished 2-3 in league and their opponent in the State game finished 1-2 in their league. What a joke for either of them to be a considered a State champ when you have far superior teams losing in the first round of their section playoffs.

This system is the culmination of decades (literally decades) of trying to figure out what to do with the WCAL when it comes to the playoffs. In an NCS-type system, not only would Palma be crushing teams in the lower divisions, but so would Riordan and St. Ignatius.

I think the CCS system has two main flaws (which are related):

1. Insistence on including playoff appearances as a means to categorize leagues/divisions

2. Too many automatic bids

These are what allows the MHAL to remain an A league, despite being absolutely horrible.

No other CIF section as a powerful all-private school league to manage except for the SS. Not surprisingly, these two sections have similar playoff formats.

The CCS has always had the goal of advancing the best teams in the section, but that practice (while good, in theory) isn't particularly inclusive. It's not Pacific Grove's fault it can't build an A-league powerhouse with its meager 600-ish CBED.

It could be difficult to manage, but I'd like the section to adopt something similar to the SJS, where you might be able to move up or down from your league's placement, but not too far. Perhaps A league teams could only play in D-1-4, B teams from D-2-5, and C teams from D-3-5 only. Every other section has a mechanism to accommodate lower level leagues/teams and I think it's time for the CCS to do the same.

If it wants to keep the new Open Division, then something like what the SDS does (limiting it to 4 teams) is probably a good solution. Mimicking the NCS for this concept is completely devoid of the details of why that section did what they did.

 

[Cal 14]

"State Championship" is a misnomer. Each of these December matchups should be listed as a "CIF Equity Bowl Game." That includes the Open Division for which, as it is for all other bowl participants, there is no real, seeded statewide playoff.

We've been over this. It's not yours or mine's position to declare what these games are. The CIF hosts them and that's what they call them, therefore, that's what they are.

 

[Cortezraiders831]

2. Too many automatic bids

These are what allows the MHAL to remain an A league, despite being absolutely horrible.

Not all A leagues are created equal. For every "How the hell did they even make it into the playoffs?!?" there is probably an automatic qualifier that was rewarded. The flip side is well if we are having "A" leagues and tougher competition there should be a reward.

 

[Cal 14]

Not all A leagues are created equal. For every "How the hell did they even make it into the playoffs?!?" there is probably an automatic qualifier that was rewarded. The flip side is well if we are having "A" leagues and tougher competition there should be a reward.

There should be some reward... just not for the MHAL.

 

[NorCalSportsFan]

Can the under performance be from them missing a year of football? Their freshman year covid. I was wondering about that. Because I see poorly made tackling. And lots of penalties.

I don't know. Palma goes as their lines go. They don't have a lot of size and depth and seems they should play a couple more twoway and also in defensive backfield (e.g., WR Saldate should start at one of the corners). Their early schedule certainly didn't help in preparing them but they do have some talent at the skill positions. Monterey has some pretty good skill players and I think they are a little bigger up front with physical RB. Monterey Coach was Palma's offensive play caller last year and it seems Palma play calling hasn't been great at times this season but I tend to criticize it at times anyways. Monterey coach seems to have prepared them well for that game and got to give them credit, but I blame penalties and lack of discipline on coaching. Monterey only has 37 players and they seemed to have worn down some in the second half of that game but pulled it out. Next season. Dors could be better returning D1 prospect QB and WR, and very physical RB. Palma isn't expected to be as good next season but may bring up talented players from this year's frosh team which is a very strong class.

 

[Cal 14]

Palma is a mess right now. There can be no sugar-coating it any longer. That 2-pt conversion may have saved their season. They're going to be vulnerable in every league game, it seems.

 

[thehookup55]

Palma is a mess right now. There can be no sugar-coating it any longer. That 2-pt conversion may have saved their season. They're going to be vulnerable in every league game, it seems.

Its been mentioned by Norcal but I will repeat it. They need their studs to go both ways. I never understood why Palma (and a lot of programs) went away from that. Saldate and even Nunes should be playing DB. Yes, the QB needs to be playing safety. When you have the limited enrollment that palma has you cant afford to have your best players on the sidelines.

They brought up a Freshman RB who got a decent amount of playing time last night. Molinari is a good athlete doing his best at RB, but its not his natural position. Nunes has no time to throw. They force the ball to Saldate so bad that everyone knows where they are going. They have been living on the big plays. It works when you play King City, Alisal and Soledad If you can't sustain a drive and move the chains, your offense will not be good against quality teams. That starts with getting the run game going. The soft schedule approach did not help them at all.

 

[Cal 14]

Its been mentioned by Norcal but I will repeat it. They need their studs to go both ways. I never understood why Palma (and a lot of programs) went away from that. Saldate and even Nunes should be playing DB. Yes, the QB needs to be playing safety. When you have the limited enrollment that palma has you cant afford to have your best players on the sidelines.

They brought up a Freshman RB who got a decent amount of playing time last night. Molinari is a good athlete doing his best at RB, but its not his natural position. Nunes has no time to throw. They force the ball to Saldate so bad that everyone knows where they are going. They have been living on the big plays. It works when you play King City, Alisal and Soledad If you can't sustain a drive and move the chains, your offense will not be good against quality teams. That starts with getting the run game going. The soft schedule approach did not help them at all.

I’m beginning to think that the non-league schedule may not have been about keeping them out of D-I so much. It may have been to give them 3 easy wins in order to qualify for the playoffs in the first place. Now that that has blown up in their faces, they legitimately are in trouble.

They already have tough games with Aptos and Salinas coming up, but they also need to be worried about Soquel. If they lose these 3 games, they’re out.

 

[JCBUST]

Palma is going to be a D4 State Champion. These forfeits have them right where they want to be. Probably more reasonable to avoid Serra and play James Lick in the first round of playoffs. Playing the ineligible kid gets him valuable film for recruiters. Win Win all around. Palma is not the only school pulling these antics. This might be the best story since the SLV helmet mic scandal. I still can’t believe SLV had OL guys wearing go pros.

 

[Cal 14]

Palma is going to be a D4 State Champion. These forfeits have them right where they want to be. Probably more reasonable to avoid Serra and play James Lick in the first round of playoffs. Playing the ineligible kid gets him valuable film for recruiters. Win Win all around. Palma is not the only school pulling these antics. This might be the best story since the SLV helmet mic scandal. I still can’t believe SLV had OL guys wearing go pros.

Palma needs luck just to make the playoffs at all.

 

[FBAddict]

Palma needs luck just to make the playoffs at all.

Its starting to look that way after all. I thought that Palma would do pretty good in league play just a week ago. But now....

 

[RLS13]

They will need to beat Alvarez and at least 1 other team: Salinas, Aptos or Soquel. At this point I don't know if they can. Even with 3 league wins if they are in 5th place, no guarantee they will have secured enough points.

 

[Cal 14]

Its starting to look that way after all. I thought that Palma would do pretty good in league play just a week ago. But now....

I think most of the hype they were getting before the season came from John Devine (Monterey County Herald). I'm not sure how much impact local press makes on Doug for this site, but Mark Tennis does look at local rankings for Cal-Hi. JD put Palma as the #1 team in the PCAL region over multiple-year top team, Salinas. Mark and Doug did the same.

Many were pleased with how they dispatched their first couple of opponents, but failed to really put those wins in context. The same thing happened with Monterey. It didn't help further that not only were Soledad and King City not good teams relative to the Gab's level, they're not even particularly good relatively to the Mission's level.

Aptos, Salinas, and Soquel took different paths. They played better non-league competition and took some lumps along the way, but now those three sit atop the Gabilan Division. Would the fates of these three have been different had they done what Palma and Monterey did or vice-versa? Who knows? But with the exception of the University of Alabama, it doesn't seem as if the easier road tends to lead to great success at the end of the year.

Incidentally, the top 3 teams in this week's Herald rankings: Salinas, Aptos, and Soquel.

 

[thehookup55]

I think most of the hype they were getting before the season came from John Devine (Monterey County Herald). I'm not sure how much impact local press makes on Doug for this site, but Mark Tennis does look at local rankings for Cal-Hi. JD put Palma as the #1 team in the PCAL region over multiple-year top team, Salinas. Mark and Doug did the same.

Many were pleased with how they dispatched their first couple of opponents, but failed to really put those wins in context. The same thing happened with Monterey. It didn't help further that not only were Soledad and King City not good teams relative to the Gab's level, they're not even particularly good relatively to the Mission's level.

Aptos, Salinas, and Soquel took different paths. They played better non-league competition and took some lumps along the way, but now those three sit atop the Gabilan Division. Would the fates of these three have been different had they done what Palma and Monterey did or vice-versa? Who knows? But with the exception of the University of Alabama, it doesn't seem as if the easier road tends to lead to great success at the end of the year.

Incidentally, the top 3 teams in this week's Herald rankings: Salinas, Aptos, and Soquel.

The only hype that was warranted around palma was about the freshman class. The hype was primarily due to the fact that they have a few good players. I'm sure they looked awesome in 7 on 7's and practice. They are soft in the trenches and they have no workhorse. Those are 2 things that Palma has always had. Even when they were undersized they had kids that were dogs out there.

Palma has historically challenged themselves prior to league so the super soft schedule was a major change. The Yuma game was the first sign that they weren't going to have a high flying offense they might have thought they had. Maybe the fewest yards palma has ever had in a game. I think there were several reasons why they went soft. I'm sure they knew they didn't have the quality of team to challenge a top local team and they wanted to avoid DI. That Serra game last year was a real eye opener. That was the first game I think Palma was ever concerned about the safety of their team. I don't think they ever want to be in that position again.

Next year will be a rough one for them too. They will have several sophomores up on varsity that will all be playing. Maybe having girls on campus next year will attract some more boys.