Are Pinewood and Etiwanda the two strongest teams at the WCJ

[Paytc]

If so, since they are on the same side of the bracket, then perhaps the championship will be decided if and when they meet up in the semifinal? Many may not want to miss that game. If the 1st round goes as expected.
Even though a team on the other side of the bracket could actually beat the winner in a one game winner takes all Championship game. After the so call strongest winner is softened up and/ or has a few weaknesses exposed. Plus upsets do at times happen.

It should be interesting to see if Salesian will bounce back from their 3 game Nike TOC skid. My guess is Troy might be a pretty even 1st game matchup for them.

And I think Clovis North ( who should be the under dog) might have the least amount of pressure since they and Sacramento are the lowest odds to advance to the championship of any team based on the Las Vegas line. But hey, that's why they play the game(s). WCJ kicks off tomorrow. May all the Norcal teams represent well !

http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/...winter-18-19/west-coast-jamboree-platinum.htm

 

[becoolpt55]

I agree the PW vs EW game should not be the semi ...wasn't SMS in this Division? Maybe they rethought things after the 37 point loss to Redondo Union...but when that happened.... why not reseed the Platinum......I say swap one Socal team Troy for another Etiwanda....
So Troy plays Sacto and Salesian plays EW....in the first round...I am guessing Salesian didn't want to play EW in the first round
Only Clay probably knows

 

[becoolpt55]

Too bad because I can't make the Semi...only the final but that seems like a waste of time...since the best game is really the game I am missing

 

[SmoothJay]

If so, since they are on the same side of the bracket, then perhaps the championship will be decided if and when they meet up in the semifinal? Many may not want to miss that game. If the 1st round goes as expected.
Even though a team on the other side of the bracket could actually beat the winner in a one game winner takes all Championship game. After the so call strongest winner is softened up and/ or has a few weaknesses exposed.

It should be interesting to see if Salesian will bounce back from their 3 game Nike TOC skid. My guess is Troy might be a pretty even 1st game matchup for them.

And I think Clovis North ( who should be the under dog) might have the least amount of pressure since they and Sacramento are the lowest odds to advance to the championship of any team based on the Las Vegas line. But hey, that's why they play the game(s). WCJ kicks off tomorrow. May all the Norcal teams represent well !

http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/...winter-18-19/west-coast-jamboree-platinum.htm

Las Vegas Line?

Where did that come from

 

[ankleassassin]

I agree the PW vs EW game should not be the semi ...wasn't SMS in this Division? Maybe they rethought things after the 37 point loss to Redondo Union...but when that happened.... why not reseed the Platinum......I say swap one Socal team Troy for another Etiwanda....
So Troy plays Sacto and Salesian plays EW....in the first round...I am guessing Salesian didn't want to play EW in the first round
Only Clay probably knows

now st marys is in the 3 highest... they fell hard

 

[Paytc]

Las Vegas Line?

Where did that come from

SmoothJay,

I spent a lot of time in Vegas. So it's easy for me to get or come up with the Las Vegas line. My sources came up with the info I shared.

ankleassassin,

St. Mary's is in the 3 highest what? They (SMS) has under my understanding been dealing with injuries and youth. And of all the Norcal power teams I think SMS and Mitty both have 4 new starters from last season. Which would make it tough even if all the players were healthy enough to play at some point this season. Because it typically takes a bit of time to get in sync and build chemistry.

becoolpt55,

I'm not sure any Norcal or SoCal team wants to play EW in the first game. It should have been a coin flip. Perhaps it was and Sacramento was the lucky team that got the first round matchup with them.And a coin flip was what led to Pinewood and EW being on the same side of the bracket. Hard to know what thought was put into the decision. Perhaps the hope is for a Norcal vs Socal championship so that influenced the brackets? It should hopefully be some good games regardless to when they take place.

 

[Paytc]

SmoothJay,

But Clovis North beat Heritage and had Miramonte beaten until the end, two teams that give Carondelet a tough battle. So most likely Clet will need to be doing some good coaching and good playing to pull out the victory. I am by no means saying Clovis North doesn't have a shot. Because they have a good shot until proven otherwise. I think Sacramento beating Etiwanda is the longest shot in the platinum division. But even they have a shot. Because like lotto you've gotta be in it to win it. Best wishes Norcal !

 

[Willtalk]

now st marys is in the 3 highest... they fell hard

They did not get dropped to the Gold because of what happened in Arizona. They were in the Gold in the WCJ before the Nike brackets even came out. Arizona had nothing to do with their bracketing in the WCJ. I was surprised they put them in the second bracket at Nike. The Gold seems more appropriate. Even though they still did win two games at Nike.

 

[becoolpt55]

But on the original WCJ brackets they were in the Platinum.
Back to the current bracket.... Clay should have reseeded the thing...
as Paytc mentions the semi should be the best game of the tournament
Clay should have swapped Troy and Etiwanda

 

[mkbgdns]

Clovis North beat Heritage and had Miramonte beaten until the end

why mis-characterize a game you didn't see?

 

[Paytc]

why mis-characterize a game you didn't see?

That is so true I did't see it. And I didn't see the other game MM was down by about 20 and came back to win. I actually got the games (both that I didn't see) confused. But obviously I meant no harm. But based on the final score and having seen both teams in the past I assumed Clovis North and MM if they played 10 games it might be split 6 to 4 or 5 to 5. Because I don't think either team is head and shoulders better than the other. I think that was my basic point. And my point was Carondelet shouldn't approach the game lightly. Because it could be a tougher game than many think. Because Clovis North can definitely hang with them. Size and experience probably favors Clet.

Do I get a citation, jail time, or just a warning this time? LOL.......

 

[straightline50]

That is so true I did't see it. And I didn't see the other game MM was down by about 20 and came back to win. I actually got the games (both that I didn't see) confused. But obviously I meant no harm. But based on the final score and having seen both teams in the past I assumed Clovis North and MM if they played 10 games it might be split 6 to 4 or 5 to 5. Because I don't think either team is head and shoulders better than the other. I think that was my basic point. And my point was Carondelet shouldn't approach the game lightly. Because it could be a tougher game than many think. Because Clovis North can definitely hang with them. Size and experience probably favors Clet.

Do I get a citation, jail time, or just a warning this time? LOL.......

It has been noted

 

[mkbgdns]

Do I get a citation, jail time, or just a warning this time? LOL......

admission of a fib is welcome, mitigating, but not exculpatory...it's up to the Judge, the three readers (ok, past you and me, that number might be high) who follow our dust-ups.

 

[Paytc]

admission of a fib is welcome, mitigating, but not exculpatory...it's up to the Judge, the three readers (ok, past you and me, I'm exaggerating) who follow our dust-ups.

Enjoy the games if you're able to make it out to them. They should all do well. Based on last year there were a lot of close contest in most of the divisions. Hopefully this year will be the same. As I think that has been the main focus of Clay and associates who have been working hard year after year to put together The West Coast Jamboree. I personally appreciate such a quality basketball tournament.

 

[mkbgdns]

had Miramonte beaten until the end

the game you had confused saw MM down big in Q2, but pulling ahead in Q3, win going away in Q4. so you were confused about the game you confused with the other game. ask yourself if there is a pattern to your confusion(s). or leave it to the jury. at my age, a plea of confusion/not remembering usually works.

you mischaracterized two games that you didn't see. why?

 

[Paytc]

the game you had confused saw MM down big in Q2, but pulling ahead in Q3, win going away in Q4. so you were confused about the game you confused with the other game. ask yourself if there is a pattern to your confusion(s). or leave it to the jury. at my age, a plea of confusion/not remembering usually works.

I'll leave it to the jury. And be glad I'm blessed enough to have all that is working in good order still working. And I'll just have to keep working to improve or maintain everything else. I'm sure you know as we age that can be a full time job.

 

[dsm405]

You guys had this one wrong. Sac drops EW 51-48.

 

[Paytc]

You guys had this one wrong. Sac drops EW 51-48.

That is an under statement. I and those folks drawing up the line in Las Vegas had Sacramento as the longest shot to advance to the championships. They're halfway there. I know Sacramento has some very good guard play, but I didn't know they had enough inside, or enough depth, to matchup and beat one of SoCal's power teams. But I did also say "that's why they play the game(s)" and "Like lotto you've gotta be in it to win it" Congratulations to Sacramento !

That upset further proves my point about it being much harder to game plan and play against teams you don't know while traveling on the road, than to beat a tough local league team you're fully aware of. Etiwanda beat Redondo Union, Mater Dei, Long Beach Poly, La Jolla C.D. ( all quality local teams they know with less problems). That's why IMO teams that don't travel and compete in the Nike TOC in Arizona, or at the very least go outside of their area to compete with unfamiliar teams, don't have as strong a SOS as those who do.

Clay putting Salesian on one side and Pinewood on the other is a genius after all !

How did Pinewood do vs Alemany? I just saw Pinewood 68 Alemany 34.

How is Carondelet doing ? I saw Clovis North was up 32 to 28 at half time.

Clovis North up by 2 points 45 to 43 going into the 4th. It's a battle going on with too many ties and lead changes to count. 58 to 55 Clet wins !

 

[straightline50]

I agree the PW vs EW game should not be the semi ...wasn't SMS in this Division? Maybe they rethought things after the 37 point loss to Redondo Union...but when that happened.... why not reseed the Platinum......I say swap one Socal team Troy for another Etiwanda....
So Troy plays Sacto and Salesian plays EW....in the first round...I am guessing Salesian didn't want to play EW in the first round
Only Clay probably knows

Good thing they did not re-seed the platinum. Well done Clay.

 

[ClayK]

As my father used to say, even a blind sow finds an acorn now and again ...

 

[straightline50]

As my father used to say, even a blind sow finds an acorn now and again ...

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

 

[LBJ6]

I've never seen Sac High play. Anyone have a realistic point spread against pinewood tonight?

 

[becoolpt55]

PW by 15...25 if they are shooting threes the way they did in Hawaii

 

[becoolpt55]

Would you rather be a genius or very lucky....

 

[mkbgdns]

58 to 55 Clet wins !

CNorth had Clet beaten until the end.

 

[Paytc]

CNorth had Clet beaten until the end.

I wasn't able to make it to the game. What do you think helped Clet pull the game out? Seems they are pulling out the close games so far this season. I might see you at the game tonight. The Salesian Carondelet rematch should be good. Hate I can't catch more of the Pinewood Sacramento game as I might catch the end of the fourth quarter.

 

[Willtalk]

But on the original WCJ brackets they were in the Platinum.
Back to the current bracket.... Clay should have reseeded the thing...
as Paytc mentions the semi should be the best game of the tournament
Clay should have swapped Troy and Etiwanda

Let me explain this as simply as possible. Originally Clay had a them on a list of teams he was going to put in the Platinum. A list of teams is not a bracket. A bracket is what you see when you click on the links now. It has the initial team match ups including the upper and lower bracket divisions with the times for all the games listed. A list of teams is not a bracket. It is a bracket when the teams are entered into the bracket format.

 

[Paytc]

It looks like Pinewood and Salesian were the two strongest teams not Pinewood and Etiwanda. As Salesian answered the question I posed about them rebounding from their 3 game skid in Arizona. They also returned the loss Carondelet gave them back to Carondelet. Salesian won 44 to 39.

I think Clet was somewhat at a disadvantage not having their coach around the past year or so. Because they had no idea what a difference Salesian would look like with Makayla Edwards back. I don't think they prepared to take Edwards return into account. The advantages they had inside in Edwards absence were not there tonight. And I'm not sure Clet was prepared to adjust to that fact tonight. Edwards also added more of an offensive impact to help Angel Jackson who didn't have to score 30 again. Having their transfers eligible this game also added to the depth of Salesian. It was like Carondelet showed Salesian their whole hand last game while Salesian only showed a part of their hand. Carondelet saw the other part tonight. And with the score tied 39 to 39 Nia Chinn adjusted out a bit to find an NBA range 3 pointer with 28 seconds remaining which ended up being the dagger. I sure hope she (Chinn) who went down with about 10 seconds left on the clock is not seriously injured. It was a good game.

The game I dont think it ever got to more than a 6 or 7 point lead. If Carondelet shoots a better percentage from the foul line they may have been able to win the game. As foul shoots can be the difference in tight games.

Salesian was up 23 to 18 at halftime. And salesian lead 29 to 28 going into the 4th quarter. Clet took a 38 to 36 lead with 2:35 left in the game. Then it was 39 to 39 Salesian had the ball with 58 seconds before Chin made the 3 point dagger.

I wouldn't be surprised if these two teams met up again sometime in March.

Congratulations Salesian !

Carondelet plays a tough Sacramento team for 3rd place tomorrow at 5pm.

While Salesian will battle Pinewood for the championship at 6:30 pm.

 

[straightline50]

Carondelet won by 20 or so last year. This will be a good test to see where the two programs have come in the last 12 months.

 

[Paytc]

Carondelet won by 20 or so last year. This will be a good test to see where the two programs have come in the last 12 months.

I would almost guarantee Carondelet won't win by 20 this evening. They will have to be prepared to play hard and smart just to pull out the win. The game plan they tried last night may be more effective against Sacramento, since there is no player on Sacramento with the size and defensive skill set of Angel Jackson. Ali was absolutely dominating in the first quarter. And the point guard Emily Howie (who had a good game) delivered the ball to her very well. But as the game went along Angel and help side defense collapsing in on Ali neutralized the effectiveness. Ali still scored well, but just needed one or two others to help carry the load and be that second or third option. In time as the season progresses, in order for Clet to take that next step,( winning a game or two in the Open tournament) they're going to have to figure out how to consistently trust and include other players into the scoring load to take pressure and game plans off focusing on stopping Ali Bamberger from being the primary concern. The better coached teams, and better match ups, ( AKA Open Division teams) won't let one player game plans beat them. I must say Salesian had the right game plan, a deeper and healthier team this time, and made the right adjustments. They didn't need Angel Jackson to score 30 this time. Because with Edwards back, they had what they needed, a more balanced scoring and defensive attack. They had Chinn, Edwards, Jackson, Galbraith, etc... as scoring options. And were just fortunate enough to get that late big shot to fall.

 

[observer22]

I would almost guarantee Carondelet won't win by 20 this evening. They will have to be prepared to play hard and smart just to pull out the win. The game plan they tried last night may be more effective against Sacramento, since there is no player on Sacramento with the size and defensive skill set of Angel Jackson. Ali was absolutely dominating in the first quarter. And the point guard Emily Howie (who had a good game) delivered the ball to her very well. But as the game went along Angel and help side defense collapsing in on Ali neutralized the effectiveness. Ali still scored well, but just needed one or two others to help carry the load and be that second or third option. In time as the season progresses, in order for Clet to take that next step,( winning a game or two in the Open tournament) they're going to have to figure out how to consistently trust and include other players into the scoring load to take pressure and game plans off focusing on stopping Ali Bamberger from being the primary concern. The better coached teams, and better match ups, ( AKA Open Division teams) won't let one player game plans beat them. I must say Salesian had the right game plan, a deeper and healthier team this time, and made the right adjustments. They didn't need Angel Jackson to score 30 this time. Because with Edwards back, they had what they needed, a more balanced scoring and defensive attack. They had Chinn, Edwards, Jackson, Galbraith, etc... as scoring options. And were just fortunate enough to get that late big shot to fall.

Not only did was that game plan of helping on Bamberger effective in limiting her shots, it forced her into 3 traveling violations as well. No one else really hurt them. I’m sure other teams took notice.

MaxPreps has Jackson with 5 blocked shots and 17 rebounds. CLet’s stats are not listed, but I’ve got to think Ali had at least 22 (if not 25) of their 39 points, and probably an equal number of rebounds as Jackson. A couple of Cougars hit some key shots, and it was almost enough to pull out the win, but they’ve got to be able to develop some additional scoring aside from Ali if they hope to do some damage in the Open this year.

 

[observer22]

And with the score tied 39 to 39 Nia Chinn adjusted out a bit to find an NBA range 3 pointer with 28 seconds remaining which ended up being the dagger. I sure hope she (Chinn) who went down with about 10 seconds left on the clock is not seriously injured.

I didn’t see Chinn’s name in the box score for the final vs. Pinewood. I hope she is OK.

 

[ClayK]

ACL issue, it appears ... MRI to come, though, so maybe there will be good news.

 

[Paytc]

I didn’t see Chinn’s name in the box score for the final vs. Pinewood. I hope she is OK.

Yeah she went down with about 10 seconds left just shortly after making what turned out to be the 3 point dagger that beat Carondelet. Salesian sure could have used her against Pinewood. Because the Salesian vs Pinewood game was much closer than the final score. It was 38 to 37 Pinewood up with 2:48 left in the 4th. So one of her 3 pointers could have had a big impact. I'm sure by now they've had the MRI and as Clay said hopefully good news.

 

[straightline50]

What was all the commotion at the end of the Sac/Carondelet game? Great comeback by Carondelet in that one.

 

[Paytc]

What was all the commotion at the end of the Sac/Carondelet game? Great comeback by Carondelet in that one.

Do you want the truth or pc spin? Do you want the PG-13 or the Rated R story? What I can share on a public forum about it really comes down to stating adults that come to watch and/ or parents of players (of both or all teams) should set better examples of conduct than what many witnessed that evening. And players need to zone out crowd noise and crowd reactions and stay focused. Why can't everyone just enjoy watching two good teams playing their hearts out and appreciate both sides? It was a very good game. The the type of game where neither team deserved to lose.

 

[eastcounty]

This is a lie. I have the film of the game and no player ran to the sideline towards the parents from sac high after the game. There was a play where the player did the close mouth sign towards the parents as she went to her bench. After the sac high parents were screaming at her while she shot free throws. It was a bad decision by the player.

The sac high parents have a tradition of being out of control. On the film you can hear the parents of sac high yelling at players and officials the entire game. You can also see the sac high parents start to run on the court towards the refs after the game. If it wasn’t for the coaches of Sac high it could have been an ugly scene.

On the film you can also see a play were a player from clet gets fouled right infront of the parents from sac high. The player stays on the floor for a second and the sac high parents are screaming at her and standing up yelling and pointing at her.

Sac high parents for last two nights were classless. If WCJ committee has any integrity they will not invite them back.

 

[kbrizzzle]

No parents or fans stood up on the sideline from Sac, nor did any of them yell at the player in the play you mention. I can show this play and the other in question in video. From multiple angles at that as one of the parents went live on FB with it. Nothing was said to that player, but she definitely chirped towards the parents when the game ended.

Classless the last two nights?? There was no incidents at all in the Pinewood game, so how was Sac classless? Now we’re making things up, that’s funny. Please elaborate.

 

[ClayK]

I think it's fair to say that there was some immaturity displayed by a teenager that triggered some immaturity by adults. Luckily, cooler heads prevailed -- and thanks to those who helped calm things down, by the way -- and the "incident," such as it was, quickly dissipated.

More impressive to me is that Carondelet not only came from 15 down in the third quarter, but also added to their string of close, competitive wins with clutch play down the stretch. It's not a coincidence that Carondelet is senior-dominated, and seniors make a difference -- especially when they're talented.

 

[Paytc]

I think it's fair to say that there was some immaturity displayed by a teenager that triggered some immaturity by adults. Luckily, cooler heads prevailed -- and thanks to those who helped calm things down, by the way -- and the "incident," such as it was, quickly dissipated.

More impressive to me is that Carondelet not only came from 15 down in the third quarter, but also added to their string of close, competitive wins with clutch play down the stretch. It's not a coincidence that Carondelet is senior-dominated, and seniors make a difference -- especially when they're talented.

True that seniors make a difference and Carondelet has been starting 5 seniors (the 5 juniors who started the previous season) However I think it's only fair to point out that just as in the prior season when it was crunch time in the game reserve players ( as in both season who could be a starting player or two) were on the floor providing the significant impact that helped make the difference. That and the fact that hopefully this Carondelet coaching staff is seeing what the previous staff didn't see. And that is size is a luxury and not a necessity.Teams like MM, Clovis West, Pinewood, and several others have been winning and/ or representing in big tournament games and Open State championships without a lot of size. It's great to have 3 or 4 tall players. But not really necessary to put them all on the floor at the same time. It's better to rotate size in when needed. Hey it doesn't matter what the coaching staff does in games Clet is obviously favored in. They can put 5 bigs on the floor at the same time and they're gonna win anyway. But if they want to take the next step ( and win a game or two in the Open Division tournament) they will need to figure out size won't intimidate or slow down Open Division level teams. So they will need to get away from a fascination with size. And put a combination of speed, heart, size, and playmakers, on the floor regardless to their size. And get scoring contributions from more than one or two players as they've have built a habit of doing under the prior coaching staff. That and just one or two other small details will make the difference. And for the most part I think the present coaching staff has picked up on the other small details therefore there's no need at this time for me to point them out.

I will point out the fact that Carondelet had some very good guard contributions in the Sacramento game which helped aid Ali Bamberger. And two of those guards were juniors Jayme Blackard, and Annie Bonderer. The starting guards Emily Howie and Erica Miller also played well for Clet. And Nat Nicolosi provided good support as well when in. It was good to see Kimani Holloway (also a junior) playing well in the Sacramento game. Hey I don't care how good you are "you can't ball from the bench". Glad to see several good players were rotated in to provide the speed, heart, and the spark Clet needed to match up with the speed, heart, and playmaking ability coming from Sacramento. Coaching can make all the difference in the world. And it certainly helped Clet in the Sacramento game. Congratulations to Carondelet on a great "team" effort.