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ARHS VERSUS SCP aka Crusaders Versus Pride

HSWIZARD73

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May 17, 2017
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Well the game everyone anticipated is a day away. Unfortunately I did not make last nights game, however Ayalar went Kiddman style and people shared some great comments.

I look at this game as a game of errors. Somebody noted turnovers, that is not good to do against Salesian. Somebody noted rebounds, if they were offensive that works in Riordans favor especially in this matchup.

One thing that is tough is Salesian has played on the court a few times this year versus Riordan only once. So I would give that edge to Salesian, however if you think court wise CCC is similar to Riordan in a way. Sure you have the distance between the basket and wall looking left behind the benches, but the other direction is similar to Riordan. A hoop with much space behind it.

Looking at similar matchups:

Mitty:
Riordan beat Mitty by 20, other games were close and one in OT.

Salesian beat Mitty by 12.
Riordan 1-0

Branson:

Salesian went to OT and won by 3.

Riordan lost by 12. But didn’t have a full squad.
Riordan 1 Salesian .5

Clovis North:

Salesian dismantled them.

Riordan beat them by 12.
Riordan 1.5 Salesian 1.5

San Ramon Valley:

Riordan won by 12 in the Crusader Classic

Salesian beat them by 15.

Now when is the last time a team won the WCAL and had the league MVP, two other first team players, and did not win a tournament.

Salesian won Gridley, Meridian Idaho, and placed 3rd Damien Classic. Although they are not as talented, they beat more recruits.
Salesian 3.5 Riordan 1

Centennial:

Salesian beat Cen10 twice

Riordan beat Cen10 once but in my opinion played excellent. Sensley went for 23 if I recall.
Salesian 4 Riordan 2

Strength of Schedule:

No doubt Salesian played a much tougher schedule.
Salesian 4.5 Riordan 2

League:

Some said the WCAL was very down this year. And we know Salesian runs thru their league pretty much. However if we look at teams that advanced, Riordan has some strength here.

Salesian margins of victory. 47,45,37,20,40, 60,58,48,19,40,28

Riordan margins of victory. 44,27,17,19,3,11,
22,13,39,26,29,20,23,46,47

I am a WCAL guy, and a few teams showed well in NorCal. But Riordans second half of league, WOW.
Salesian 5 Riordan 4.5

Coaching:

Got to go with Mellis. I mean let’s ask ourselves. If Mellis coached Riordan would they be nationally ranked. My answer is yes. He scheduled better, but league is very so so. In Curtins defense he may have loaded up a tad more if he knew Sensley was coming back. I would assume his preseason schedule is done before school gets out. If Salesian fans think those blowouts are impressive they are not. Blowing out Serra, Bellarmine, SH, that’s impressive. And beating Mitty 3 times is icing on the cake.
Salesian 5.5 Riordan 5

Players:

If your in denial how many stars Riordan has and it being one of the most loaded teams, don’t know what to tell you. Salesian has a kid going to Hawaii, ironically to play under one of Riordans greats.

But Riordan has a kid going to St Mary’s, Eastern Washington, and Evansville. And Hillman, wouldn’t surprise me if he went prep. And a last name Tofi off the bench.
Salesian 6 Riordan 6

Who wins. After digging deep into the crystal ball the ball says. Game goes to overtime in a back and forth thriller of runs, errors, and big shots. And the team who has the most starters foul out loses.

However I feel this game is up in the air.

Riordan needs to limit turnovers against the press. And not allow Salesian to drain it from 3.

Salesian must control the boards on the defensive end. I have seen a few games where the other team gets quite a few second chance points and misses many second chance points. Riordan is the bigger team, this is important. If they run their offense it works. And it would be interesting if they switch it up defense wise some. I think in order to beat Riordan they have to frustrate them.

Hard to call. I will decide when the ball is tipped. Gonna be a great game.
 
HSDungeons&Dragons,

I am going to pull out my Sophie’s choice on this game as I did last time they played in the MLK Classic…if you don’t understand why,…your not as estute as one would self claim to be?

The Only problem is @TheR is the “Team of Destiny” & Curtin & Crew have learned from loses and strengthen from legacies (I.e Pride, Purpose & Performance Tshirts with a target on their back)

So I want to say, “This team is aware of the “True Marquee” that stands out weathering Good & Bad times in the climate HS prep sports as the marquee stands to remind everyone at the gate as one enters into Riordan

I want to say, good analysis? But it is flawed because you did not factor IN,….

#We(R)Riordan
#StandOnTheShouldersOfTheOnesB4U
 
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Looks like Riordan has loaded up on talent this year, I think this game comes down to 4 things for them to win:
1) how Riordan handles ball pressure, previous Riordan teams had trouble with the press and in high school basketball alot of teams don't handle ball pressure well if they can limit TO's and turn them into easy transition buckets it should be an solid Riordan win.
2) Zion will either carry the team or shoot them out of the game, in their biggest wins he has been the best player on the court, other times he takes off balance shots which ends up in transition buckets the other way which against a veteran SCP team will be costly
3) Offensive rebounding, the group effort to collectively crash the boards led by Emenke, Sensley and Tofi has been great during this run they have the size so if they do it consistently it should lead to 2nd chance points and fouls on SCP
4) keep it simple the team has so much talent and goes for the home run 3 or the crowd wowing lob which if it works great but if not leads to 4-5 point swings the other way and vs a solid SCP team might kill the R.

good luck to the R will be rooting for a city team!

oops forgot the X factor: Hillman if he goes off and Zion doesn't the R should still win, Hillman has big game DNA defensively and offensively for only being a soph!
 
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Well the game everyone anticipated is a day away. Unfortunately I did not make last nights game, however Ayalar went Kiddman style and people shared some great comments.

I look at this game as a game of errors. Somebody noted turnovers, that is not good to do against Salesian. Somebody noted rebounds, if they were offensive that works in Riordans favor especially in this matchup.

One thing that is tough is Salesian has played on the court a few times this year versus Riordan only once. So I would give that edge to Salesian, however if you think court wise CCC is similar to Riordan in a way. Sure you have the distance between the basket and wall looking left behind the benches, but the other direction is similar to Riordan. A hoop with much space behind it.

Looking at similar matchups:

Mitty:
Riordan beat Mitty by 20, other games were close and one in OT.

Salesian beat Mitty by 12.
Riordan 1-0

Branson:

Salesian went to OT and won by 3.

Riordan lost by 12. But didn’t have a full squad.
Riordan 1 Salesian .5

Clovis North:

Salesian dismantled them.

Riordan beat them by 12.
Riordan 1.5 Salesian 1.5

San Ramon Valley:

Riordan won by 12 in the Crusader Classic

Salesian beat them by 15.

Now when is the last time a team won the WCAL and had the league MVP, two other first team players, and did not win a tournament.

Salesian won Gridley, Meridian Idaho, and placed 3rd Damien Classic. Although they are not as talented, they beat more recruits.
Salesian 3.5 Riordan 1

Centennial:

Salesian beat Cen10 twice

Riordan beat Cen10 once but in my opinion played excellent. Sensley went for 23 if I recall.
Salesian 4 Riordan 2

Strength of Schedule:

No doubt Salesian played a much tougher schedule.
Salesian 4.5 Riordan 2

League:

Some said the WCAL was very down this year. And we know Salesian runs thru their league pretty much. However if we look at teams that advanced, Riordan has some strength here.

Salesian margins of victory. 47,45,37,20,40, 60,58,48,19,40,28

Riordan margins of victory. 44,27,17,19,3,11,
22,13,39,26,29,20,23,46,47

I am a WCAL guy, and a few teams showed well in NorCal. But Riordans second half of league, WOW.
Salesian 5 Riordan 4.5

Coaching:

Got to go with Mellis. I mean let’s ask ourselves. If Mellis coached Riordan would they be nationally ranked. My answer is yes. He scheduled better, but league is very so so. In Curtins defense he may have loaded up a tad more if he knew Sensley was coming back. I would assume his preseason schedule is done before school gets out. If Salesian fans think those blowouts are impressive they are not. Blowing out Serra, Bellarmine, SH, that’s impressive. And beating Mitty 3 times is icing on the cake.
Salesian 5.5 Riordan 5

Players:

If your in denial how many stars Riordan has and it being one of the most loaded teams, don’t know what to tell you. Salesian has a kid going to Hawaii, ironically to play under one of Riordans greats.

But Riordan has a kid going to St Mary’s, Eastern Washington, and Evansville. And Hillman, wouldn’t surprise me if he went prep. And a last name Tofi off the bench.
Salesian 6 Riordan 6

Who wins. After digging deep into the crystal ball the ball says. Game goes to overtime in a back and forth thriller of runs, errors, and big shots. And the team who has the most starters foul out loses.

However I feel this game is up in the air.

Riordan needs to limit turnovers against the press. And not allow Salesian to drain it from 3.

Salesian must control the boards on the defensive end. I have seen a few games where the other team gets quite a few second chance points and misses many second chance points. Riordan is the bigger team, this is important. If they run their offense it works. And it would be interesting if they switch it up defense wise some. I think in order to beat Riordan they have to frustrate them.

Hard to call. I will decide when the ball is tipped. Gonna be a great game.
You didn't figure in Salesian's victory over Riordan in your calculations
 
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As a Riordan fan - i would love for them to win but expect Salesian to pull it out. They are too disciplined, well-coached and each/every player knows and understands their roles (watch the body language as Riordan & Salesian players get subbed out for examples of this). Riordan has more talent and size but is missing the aforementioned tangibles IMO. As GG mentioned Zion is the wildcard and he'll either shoot them IN or OUT of the game - way too many forced off-balance shots and sloppy TOs for my tastes. Hillman is my fave Crusader but his dribble drives will be contested by Salesian's athletes as he can't simply exploit 4-5" height advantages like against smaller opponents. Renscher will also have to pick his spots and not force the issue and play under control. My heart says Riordan but my mind says Salesian.
 
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My 2 cents.
Riordan has more talent and better individual players but doesn't value possessions and the ball like Salesian. In a 32 min hs game I will take Salesian. Clovis North couldn't match Riordan size and physicality, but Salesian can. Reminds me a lot of the old DLS teams that just grinded on your and each kid had a purpose who knew and accepted their role.

I got Salesian vs Roosevelt in finals. Mild upset down south with Roosevelt avenging a prior loss to HW.
 
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This is a really hard matchup to predict. Riordan has the overall talent advantage, but it seems like Salesian fits better together as a team. I think the first big run is key becuase if Riordan gets up, they have the firepower to hold Salesian off. Taking the other side, if Salesian can get up, their defense can lock down the result,

I'll go with Salesian by 3-5 points
 
My 2 cents.
Riordan has more talent and better individual players but doesn't value possessions and the ball like Salesian. In a 32 min hs game I will take Salesian. Clovis North couldn't match Riordan size and physicality, but Salesian can. Reminds me a lot of the old DLS teams that just grinded on your and each kid had a purpose who knew and accepted their role.

I got Salesian vs Roosevelt in finals. Mild upset down south with Roosevelt avenging a prior loss to HW.
Carlsbad gave their all to Harvard Westlake. But sometimes when a team has that happen with two games left, they tend to right the ship and take care of business.
 
This is a really hard matchup to predict. Riordan has the overall talent advantage, but it seems like Salesian fits better together as a team. I think the first big run is key becuase if Riordan gets up, they have the firepower to hold Salesian off. Taking the other side, if Salesian can get up, their defense can lock down the result,

I'll go with Salesian by 3-5 points
In their first game @ the MLK, Riordan got up 10 pts fast, but didn't seem to faze Salesian as they caught up and won going away. As LL stated, Salesian's tough D and team concept will be the keys if Riordan gets careless with their possessions and commits their usual unforced turnovers.
 
In their first game @ the MLK, Riordan got up 10 pts fast, but didn't seem to faze Salesian as they caught up and won going away. As LL stated, Salesian's tough D and team concept will be the keys if Riordan gets careless with their possessions and commits their usual unforced turnovers.
Im working under the opinion that Riordan is different than that January version. If I didn't, my prediction would change
 
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I watched the previous match up between these two teams. And I know it is not a prediction of what will happen tomorrow. But my thoughts, Riordan was less disciplined but had more talent. Sensley was great, but it didn’t phase Salesian one bit. He’d throw down a highlight dunk and the pride would immediately respond. Salesian doesn’t have one superstar but everyone that plays, can play. Salesian beats teams because their second string is better than other teams bench. Salesians shooting, is up and down but one thing that never seems to fail them is defense. I don’t have a prediction but 30-1 is pretty impressive especially when you look at the résumé of teams they beat. All that being said Riordan has the most talented player on the floor and that’s always an advantage. Should be fun.
 
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Im working under the opinion that Riordan is different than that January version. If I didn't, my prediction would change
Note: Riordan does not have a more important game the next day, this time. The game vs. Mitty at Mitty was the next day, and the more important game to win at that time.
 
Note: Riordan does not have a more important game the next day, this time. The game vs. Mitty at Mitty was the next day, and the more important game to win at that time.
That sounds like an excuse to me. The MLK showcase is always a big game for all the teams that get invited.
 
That sounds like an excuse to me. The MLK showcase is always a big game for all the teams that get invited.
@nickdakoolkat04,

I might be in belief that you may not be aware or understand the “Pride of the WCAL”

@TheR has/had self imposedh expectations vs. Their folklore and Ones who came before them as Crusaders.

It seems some posters as you might look at Preseason schedules as end all be all. @TheR sought to be the Team of Destiny and that meant doing the ladder climb; the WCAL League, CCS and now NorCal.

As I have posted before and debated some who are focused on DIII Banners as being the testimony of excellence,…I call that BS.

For Riordan to climb back to a TOP position in HS Prep BB, they need to able to earn the Right to Stand On the Shoulders of the Ones before them at the DI or Open division.

They are calling tomorrow SuperTuesday, I am hoping to refer to it as:

#PurpleRegein
 
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"As I have posted before and debated some who are focused on DIII Banners as being the testimony of excellence,…I call that BS".
Better toss those 7 "BS" CCS D-III banners at Riordan (Two of them won by teams with losing records).
Chuck those two D-III NorCal and that D-III state title banner too.
#PurpleHypocrites #JealousJSquare #CantWriteRightRabbit #InstantCoffee #RabbitsCantWinTheBigOne #PurpleFailure

#SHC117SeasonsOfHoops
 
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Better toss those 7 CCS D-III banners at Riordan. Chuck those two D-III NorCal and D-IV state title banners too. #PurpleHypocrites #JealousJSquare

Girls number 1 in the nation. And keep in mind the 2001 and 2002 teams are in the Riordan hall of fame.
 
I love your approach having all the cooked up Hatoraide,…reveal s lot w about the character of the program
Then quit Hater aiding. #PurpleHypocrite #GasLightingRabbit #JonesCantWriteRight. #therearenokingsofkezarnarcissist
 
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Girls number 1 in the nation. And keep in mind the 2001 and 2002 teams are in the Riordan hall of fame.
Well according to JSquareSFCityGael, "Division III is BS", So Riordan had better take those teams out of their HOF. SHC was the only team to beat that 2002 "HOF" team twice.

(Irish Girls were #1 in 2008 and had a 61-game winning streak).
 
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Well according to JSquareSFCityGael, "Division III is BS", So Riordan had better take those teams out of their HOF.

(Irish Girls were #1 in 2008 and had a 61-game winning streak).
Being a SH alum he doesn’t get it. Many pros have played in division 2 and 3. I would be willing to bet if CIF had made a list, more pros from D2,3,4 versus D1.
 
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It's sad how big time games like this these days always devolve into refball. The guys in stripes should NOT be making it their mission to determine the outcomes of games. All we want is fair officiating!
 
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It's sad how big time games like this these days always devolve into refball. The guys in stripes should NOT be making it their mission to determine the outcomes of games. All we want is fair officiating!
Are you saying this game was due to officials. You and overcome that after a timeout by running a play and tying the game. The last 11 seconds had nothing to do with the refs, and overall the game was fair in my opinion.
 
It was
Being a SH alum he doesn’t get it. Many pros have played in division 2 and 3. I would be willing to bet if CIF had made a list, more pros from D2,3,4 versus D1.
what both IC & HS don’t understand,…I don’t care about SHC and never have. I could care even lessor about mythical list a poster wants to implement a Dragons & Dungeons game format for debate.

You have your own crosses to bear in these times that both parents and student/atheltes attend and support in Recent Shame,… unacceptable for a City program
 
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Are you saying this game was due to officials. You and overcome that after a timeout by running a play and tying the game. The last 11 seconds had nothing to do with the refs, and overall the game was fair in my opinion.
11 seconds out of 32 minutes. Wow. The refs deserve a cookie.
 
11 seconds out of 32 minutes. Wow. The refs deserve a cookie.
Listen. You all complained about a foul call in the first half. A foul was called on Riordan and the follow up shot went in. Your crowd was yelling and me and a Salesian guy was like ah that worked in their favor. So refs, ok blame the refs. How about pull out a blank sheet of paper and draw up the offensive sets ran. Bet you the page remains blank. Only way you win it all that way, is if you have a NBA player and 1-2 other major recruits. Outside of that you don’t beat a Bill Mellis with blank. One of the soldiers coaches said Salesian by 4. I said Riordan has been on fire I think Salesian fans think it’s gonna be a cruise. Response, naw they will win, Riordan shoots to many 3’s in one on one play. Could you imagine Sensley coming off screens constantly with his athleticism. Doing a lot of inside out with a 6ft10 big man being well coached. So yeah refs all the way. Got it. Oh and yes 11 seconds out of a timeout and that is what happens is essential. Why? Because at this level many games come down to the wire. Ask Salesians principal why he has a ring. Last second shot.
 
It was

what both IC & HS don’t understand,…I don’t care about SHC and never have. I could care even lessor about mythical list a poster wants to implement a Dragons & Dungeons game format for debate.

You have your own crosses to bear in these times that both parents and student/atheltes attend and support in Recent Shame,… unacceptable for a City program
Blah blah blah. Hang a banner #purplereign. How is the baseball team? You did put a post on the baseball side that I believe had a few pounds by it. Everyone in the East Bay knows who JIM IS. We love you and your input on this site. Excuse after excuse after excuse. We now got D1’s. Parents want to come to the R. What does all that matter at the end of basketball season. Sure it’s great if you win it all. And compare teams to teams. Why? Next years team is the 25 team. Hopefully they don’t listen to you and bring another banner to the WCAL. CCS is always WCAL. That means nothing during March.
 
Listen. You all complained about a foul call in the first half. A foul was called on Riordan and the follow up shot went in. Your crowd was yelling and me and a Salesian guy was like ah that worked in their favor. So refs, ok blame the refs. How about pull out a blank sheet of paper and draw up the offensive sets ran. Bet you the page remains blank. Only way you win it all that way, is if you have a NBA player and 1-2 other major recruits. Outside of that you don’t beat a Bill Mellis with blank. One of the soldiers coaches said Salesian by 4. I said Riordan has been on fire I think Salesian fans think it’s gonna be a cruise. Response, naw they will win, Riordan shoots to many 3’s in one on one play. Could you imagine Sensley coming off screens constantly with his athleticism. Doing a lot of inside out with a 6ft10 big man being well coached. So yeah refs all the way. Got it. Oh and yes 11 seconds out of a timeout and that is what happens is essential. Why? Because at this level many games come down to the wire. Ask Salesians principal why he has a ring. Last second shot.
Who is "you all?" I have no affiliation with either school and was watching it online. I'm a SoCal guy.
 
Who is "you all?" I have no affiliation with either school and was watching it online. I'm a SoCal guy.
Ok my bad. Well like I said if your throwing stuff up your not gonna get a call in the end. Especially out of an timeout. And in such an athletic and fast environment and add in a sell out crowd, the refs did just fine to many on both sides.
 
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"I don’t care about SHC and never have".
If that's the case, quit making idiotic, non-sensical remarks, fool. I'm done with your half-wit bullsh*t. Your gaslighting, childish a** has been trolling and flaming ever since you got on here. This board would be a lot better off without you around. The only embarrassment Riordan has is you. #riordanembarrassedbyjimjonesjr

Oh, and the "Field" is called "Kezar". #4AStateTitle. The baseball field is the soon-to- be-renovated Marchbank Park whether you like it or not.

RE: Recent Shame,… "unacceptable for a City program".
You mean like Riordan's soccer team that loses 18 games a year and has done so for 20 years now? Do us a favor and disappear.
 
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Listen. You all complained about a foul call in the first half. A foul was called on Riordan and the follow up shot went in. Your crowd was yelling and me and a Salesian guy was like ah that worked in their favor. So refs, ok blame the refs. How about pull out a blank sheet of paper and draw up the offensive sets ran. Bet you the page remains blank. Only way you win it all that way, is if you have a NBA player and 1-2 other major recruits. Outside of that you don’t beat a Bill Mellis with blank. One of the soldiers coaches said Salesian by 4. I said Riordan has been on fire I think Salesian fans think it’s gonna be a cruise. Response, naw they will win, Riordan shoots to many 3’s in one on one play. Could you imagine Sensley coming off screens constantly with his athleticism. Doing a lot of inside out with a 6ft10 big man being well coached. So yeah refs all the way. Got it. Oh and yes 11 seconds out of a timeout and that is what happens is essential. Why? Because at this level many games come down to the wire. Ask Salesians principal why he has a ring. Last second shot.
I agree a play for Sensley, Curcic or McKenzie out of that timeout and they might have tied it up. To be fair, there were quite a few assists to Emeneke for easy dunks and to cutting players like Curcic and Tofi for layups, not all one-on-one.
 
I agree a play for Sensley, Curcic or McKenzie out of that timeout and they might have tied it up. To be fair, there were quite a few assists to Emeneke for easy dunks and to cutting players like Curcic and Tofi for layups, not all one-on-one.
That’s nothing but motion offense. Very easy for a coach to watch film and figure out. You get to this level you bring the kitchen sink. Coach Curtin knew one of Salesians go to plays. He was livid on one time his defense blew it, and they did a better job defending. And they knew the lob in the inbounds to the basket as well. Would have been a great time to pull something out of the hat. Maybe they did and guys didn’t position correctly.
 
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That’s nothing but motion offense. Very easy for a coach to watch film and figure out. You get to this level you bring the kitchen sink. Coach Curtin knew one of Salesians go to plays. He was livid on one time his defense blew it, and they did a better job defending. And they knew the lob in the inbounds to the basket as well. Would have been a great time to pull something out of the hat. Maybe they did and guys didn’t position correctly.
Riordan's roster is flush with depth, length, bigs, shooters, etc. This season they came up short. Vs Salesian the 40s game suggests Riordan didnt impose their imprint on this one. This team is more suited to play like the Chino Hills teams and in fact thats how they shouldve played this one with their roster. More possessions, more shots, 32 minutes of up and down tempo vs the slugfest they found themselves in. Youre right Curtin doesnt have plays. His play is get a stacked roster and let talent win. They had a successful season TBH. Lets see what next year brings.
 
Riordan's roster is flush with depth, length, bigs, shooters, etc. This season they came up short. Vs Salesian the 40s game suggests Riordan didnt impose their imprint on this one. This team is more suited to play like the Chino Hills teams and in fact thats how they shouldve played this one with their roster. More possessions, more shots, 32 minutes of up and down tempo vs the slugfest they found themselves in. Youre right Curtin doesnt have plays. His play is get a stacked roster and let talent win. They had a successful season TBH. Lets see what next year brings.
should have been a game reminscent of the 2004 state title game between Fairfax and De La Salle. fax wanted to get up and down the floor and DLS said nahhh... we gonna slow it down
 
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should have been a game reminscent of the 2004 state title game between Fairfax and De La Salle. fax wanted to get up and down the floor and DLS said nahhh... we gonna slow it down
Look at these juggernaut point totals!
March 20, 2004 Fairfax, Los Angeles | De La Salle, Concord 51-35
March 19, 2005 Westchester, Los Angeles | Serra, San Mateo 66-45
March 18, 2006 De La Salle, Concord | Clovis West 43-40
March 24, 2007 Fairfax, Los Angeles | McClymonds, Oakland 54-29

I attended the 2015 finals once at Haas Pavilion and watched the St. Marys Stockton v Mater Dei girls game. SMS just pressed the whole game. No half court anything. No plays. No sets. Just 32 minutes of hell. Ended up winning 76-69. It all just boils down to you will usually win when you play the way you want to, not play the way the other team wants to.
 
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