Carondelet upsets SMS
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First, congrats to Elgin Leslie and Carondelet. That's a great win ..
Carondelet pretty much stamped its ticket to the Open, though winning NCS Division 1 is not a given. Carondelet will be the favorite in every game, but Heritage, Logan, California, Castro Valley and American not going to be easy outs. If the Cougars play well, they should have no problem, but a letdown against one of these teams when it's making shots could turn into a close game.
Carondelet pretty much stamped its ticket to the Open, though winning NCS Division 1 is not a given. Carondelet will be the favorite in every game, but Heritage, Logan, California, Castro Valley and American not going to be easy outs. If the Cougars play well, they should have no problem, but a letdown against one of these teams when it's making shots could turn into a close game.
I personally think Carondelet was going to be put into the open regardless to upsetting SMS. So IMO Carondelet focusing on what it needs to work on to increase it's chances at being better prepared and having a higher seeding in the open should have always been its focus. Not hoping to lose enough games to not qualify for the open. Because you should be playing to improve and win every game you play in the process anyway. As I have always said you get better, by playing better, with and against better.
In all fairness to SMS they played without Naje Murry. She will make them a much better team when she returns to add the senior leadership, consistent 3 point threat, ball handling compliment to Ariel on the other side, drive, and championship experience.
With Naje Murry the Clovis West 5 point win and Carondelet 2 point win would both be challenged quite a bit more. So I think it's fair to give Carondelet credit for the win because they may be a bit better( as they continue to gel and get better) than they have played up to this point, as they continue to build trust, chemistry, and unselfish team play. But I don't think anyone should think SMS won't be continuing to get better as they have players return from injury and have more of the depth they've enjoyed which has allowed them to have all the success they have had for years.
Congratulations to Elgin (his staff), and the Carondelet team.
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Actually, he has been national coach of the year the last two years. Two years ago max preps and last year Naismith and Pat Summit . They were also # 2 in the country the last two years. Btw were you one of the guys that left at 1/2 time of the Salesian game when SMS was up by 20 plus. What SMS has done so far this year might be his best coaching job . They start 3 juniors , 1 soph and one frosh. They have zero bench , which means they can't run the system that they have been so successful with in the past . They may be a year away , but don't count them out this year . Carondelet deserved to win they played well and banked a few shots in. SMS looked disinterested and paid the price and still had a wide open 3 to win the game. Come on man!!! Lol
This year is one those years that anyone can be beat at any time. Carondelet is a good team seen them play in a couple of games this yeat. They tall guard that can see over the scramble defense. Good win Carondelet!!! Wound what the ranks look like this week!!! Will it like last week when CN is rank higher then the team that beat them. I know even Duke after taking a lose drops 1 to 10 from the beginning of the season. I very much doubt on the site to many unknowns of thing!!!!!!!
It was a hard fought game that either team could have won as the score indicates. One play doesn't make a game, it is the collective quarters played. I think lack of depth played the biggest role and the fact that Murry wasn't there to provide senior leadership, depth, and support. Carondelet set the tone, jumping on them early and often, showing proof that there was no fear and intimidation factor. In games when the fear is not present and the teams can both play, anything can happen. Carondelet played a bit better than they did when they set the tone of the season in their foundation game defeating Bishop Odowd soundly. They then had a few early hiccups (when playing a few good and experienced teams) as the coach and players were searching for (their identity) chemistry, and offensive and defensive schemes that worked best for the talent they have on the floor. Not just egotistically trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. As long as the ego is managed by all involved and everyone is held accountable for playing "team" ball, and not competing among each other, Carondelet could change the culture that has permitted them to only win one state championship in it's history that I am aware of. If they can stop being satisfied with just dominating an often times weak league and rather easy NCS championship challenge.... they might find a way to set and reach higher goals and accomplishments. You play the game to get better and win championships as a team. Not to focus on only winning easy games by a lot of points. Or building a false sense of confidence. Or when it has to be your own delusional individual ego who needs to try to say "we won because of me". You want to be part of the reason, not the only reason. Because if your the only reason your not winning any championships. You win when you leave the fear, selfish ego, and bad attitudes at home. And care about playing well for yourself, your coach, your team mates and your school. Not just yourself and your parents.
And when everyone, and I mean "everyone " puts the team before their ego.
Carondelet still has a lot to work on, but at least they are taking steps in the right direction.
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I'm still wondering what happened during the game, and especially down the stretch. One would think DeCosta would have been unstoppable down low, and that Carondelet would have had trouble with the press.
Did SMS lead in the fourth quarter? Did they have a chance to take the lead? Or was Carondelet up and SMS scored at the buzzer to make it a three-point game?
Did SMS lead in the fourth quarter? Did they have a chance to take the lead? Or was Carondelet up and SMS scored at the buzzer to make it a three-point game?
Keeping a good attitude. Working to be the best team player. And following the direction of the coaching staff. Hopefully that leads to improvement, more confidence, and an enjoyable high school experience she can cherish long after playing the game. Thanks for asking !
Yes. I was at the game, and it was quite entertaining. Both teams played hard and clean.
I hear it has been a while. And the home court advantage was apparent. It is not an easy floor for an opponent to win on by any means. For that matter it's not easy to beat SMS anywhere.
Clay,
To answer your question. Aquira scored most of her points from break away layups and freethrows. The size of Carondelet gave her somewhat problems. I say somewhat because she had 32 pts.
The key to the game was Dwiggins, Simonvich and the starting point guard,( don't know her name) kept hitting clutch shots everytime SMS would make a run. Also SMS didn't get many offensive rebounds with the two big girls bamburger and vanderkugt.
To answer your question. Aquira scored most of her points from break away layups and freethrows. The size of Carondelet gave her somewhat problems. I say somewhat because she had 32 pts.
The key to the game was Dwiggins, Simonvich and the starting point guard,( don't know her name) kept hitting clutch shots everytime SMS would make a run. Also SMS didn't get many offensive rebounds with the two big girls bamburger and vanderkugt.
How is Carondelet only ranked number 7. Their only lost is to number 2 in the nation Clovis west, Brentwood Academy and Valley Vista in the Nike TOC. THAT'S CRAZY !!!! They should be #2 for beating at team like SMS AT HOME.
Respect:
Which ranking are you referring to, NorCal Preps ranking?
MaxPreps ranking? CalHi Sports ranking?
You can't overreact to one game (albeit a very impressive win). The head-to-head result will always be there and may end up being the difference, but overall resume still favors St. Mary's and some other teams.
Cptmycpa
Norcalprep ranking just like last week with Salesian beating CN but this week I seen the change that one. The way they do ranking is strange sometimes.
Streak One
Carondelet won a game where very few win that in itself should rank them # 2 in Norcalprep.
Norcalprep ranking just like last week with Salesian beating CN but this week I seen the change that one. The way they do ranking is strange sometimes.
Streak One
Carondelet won a game where very few win that in itself should rank them # 2 in Norcalprep.
I believe that a computer algorithm is used. if every team in the country played every other team, by the end of the year it might be somewhat accurate, but it still does not factor margin of victory, injuries, home court, head-to head results (just another W or L), or a slew of other things that a perfectly informed human being might take into account. insufficient data early in the season also yields nutty results. in march, it might be close, but then those humans just go out and run a state tournament anyway. at the top of the rankings page, there is a link to some information about the rankings, but if they told you the algorithm, they'd have to kill you.
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Who cares about rankings. Rankings mean absolutely nothing. The only people rankings mean something to is parents so they can post it on Twitter and Facebook. I've coached for years in the Midwest, boys and girls, no coach or player cares about rankings. So why do you guys? All they care about is winning tournaments, sections, and possibly state titles. I tell you this board and some of the people who post are great comic relief.
Did you just say CA is more competitive than the Midwest? CA does put more in college for all sports because of population not because they are more competitive. That statement is pretty ignorant. Oh let me guess you're going to tell me that you know how things are done in the Midwest. Let me dumb down my statement about rankings don't matter since you obviously didn't get it. When teams get on the floor rankings mean nothing. Last year who was ranked higher during the year Pinewood or St. Mary's? That's why I said players and coaches don't care about rankings. They know you have to get on the floor and win. Rankings don't give you extra points. Rankings get you nothing. I guarantee you the Mitty, Clovis, Miramonte, St. Mary's, Carondelet coaches aren't talking to their kids about rankings. They aren't pulling up websites and saying "how can they be ranked ahead of us".
Rankings, Heisman, League MVP awards are the most overrated things in sports.
Rankings, Heisman, League MVP awards are the most overrated things in sports.
A couple of points…
First, the MaxPreps algorithm does include margin of victory as well as home and away victories. It's not just the simple RPI that the colleges use.
And in my experience, by season's end, those rankings are very accurate (assuming that teams have been healthy all year long) and actually can deliver a pretty good point spread.
Several sections rely on them heavily when it comes to postseason seeding, but who knows what the new committee will do when it comes to the regionals.
Second, sometimes the Midwest is stronger than California; sometimes California is stronger than the Midwest. It all goes in cycles. This year, for example, Indiana is very strong, but Illinois is down. By the same token, this year Southern California is down, and Northern California, relative to Southern California, is a little stronger.
And though it's true that most players and coaches are focused on section and state championships, the national rankings do have some meaning for those involved. I don't know that there's a lot of difference between being number 18 and number 23, but if I had a team that was ranked in the top 10 in the country, or the top 25, that would mean something. A state title would mean more, granted, but there's something to be said for national recognition.
First, the MaxPreps algorithm does include margin of victory as well as home and away victories. It's not just the simple RPI that the colleges use.
And in my experience, by season's end, those rankings are very accurate (assuming that teams have been healthy all year long) and actually can deliver a pretty good point spread.
Several sections rely on them heavily when it comes to postseason seeding, but who knows what the new committee will do when it comes to the regionals.
Second, sometimes the Midwest is stronger than California; sometimes California is stronger than the Midwest. It all goes in cycles. This year, for example, Indiana is very strong, but Illinois is down. By the same token, this year Southern California is down, and Northern California, relative to Southern California, is a little stronger.
And though it's true that most players and coaches are focused on section and state championships, the national rankings do have some meaning for those involved. I don't know that there's a lot of difference between being number 18 and number 23, but if I had a team that was ranked in the top 10 in the country, or the top 25, that would mean something. A state title would mean more, granted, but there's something to be said for national recognition.
coach102532 said it right, the ranked teams could care less about their ranking. They care about where they will be in the last poll, but right now its about winning against whoever they play next. So Clay, while you may be right, some schools that aren't often in the top 25 of the nation or top 10 of the state might get a little excited about that, it means absolutely nothing in the long run. It would just be something for the kids/parents to post on social media. Rankings should be an ever changing guess of how that last poll in march or april will look, because thats the only one that matters
I have to agree with Respect here. If one ranking spot up or down meant that our team would play at home in NorCal's against MA vs. playing on the road against SMS, I would absolutely care where we were ranked. Now I think we all agree that the ultimate goal is a state title, but if the rankings influence the seedings and our ability to reached that goal, then yes, they are very important.
Additionally, players do care about rankings. We just scrimmaged a team that was highly ranked - our kids left the contest excited that they had just played a team that is ranked as one of the best in the Bay Area.
The reality is some schools use rankings as motivation others as confidence. And still others see it as justification for post season seeding. So whether you think it is accurate or fair it does have a significant place in determining perceptions and decisions. I personally think you should validate your own self worth. After all, who knows you best? And who determines your value? You or someone else? Who sets your goals? You or someone else?
There is a reason there are literally dozens and perhaps even more ranking systems and ranking organizations. Rankings are just opinion polls. But they do matter. And they do have influence like or agree with them or not.
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So you just said who knows you best, who determines your value, you or someone else. That flys in the face of your assertion that rankings matter. If you determine your own value as a player/team, then what a group of people who may have seen you play twice out of your ten games says about you means NOTHING! I don't know you but from your posts I'm assuming that you don't coach. I could be wrong but with some of the things you have said, I don't believe that you are or have coached. CYO and youth doesn't count. That's like someone telling a parent how to raise their kids and they don't have any but they say I babysit. Not the same thing. Elite programs, the programs that compete for state and section titles, don't give a damn about where they are ranked. Any coach worth a damn isn't in the locker room talking about where they are ranked because it doesn't matter. What matters is winning on the court. When you get into your playoffs, wins, common opponents, and head to head wins are the major factors. How many different rankings polls are out? Do you think these people are going over all those polls to see who is better? The people in charge are so lazy and want to get it down as fast as possible. They don't put any real thought in it. That's why Maxpreps is a computer program that does the rankings. So essentially your argument over rankings is with a computer. Let that sink in.
Paytc... you just made our points... who determines your self worth, value, goals, etc?? Not one of the dozens of ranking services. Who btw are there to get readers/subscibers/ clicks on their websites, THATS the reason there are so many. They are not out there for the kids, they are there for the parents and fans to see. Same with the sites/ services that try to do player rankings... its a joke. Like coach above me said, there is no way in hell at any point this season sue, doc, kelly, etc, says "great job this week, you guys moved up 2 spots in this poll and 3 in this one! Lets go move up more next week!"
btw.. adult league doesnt count either...
btw.. adult league doesnt count either...
Seedings and rankings are two different things.. Will some seeding committees go along with rankings? sure. but they should be able to back that up with their own homework. Obviously my point is that the rankings shouldnt matter... only in a perfect world lol
and again, to your point (the ranked team in your scrimmage).. the ranking mattered to outsiders. meaning your team is not in their lockerroom
I beg to differ slightly but agree with many of your and Coach102532's points.
I would think that Doc, Kelly, Sue etc.... have indeed at times all congratulated their teams for a good week of play and/or for moving up on the polls that week. And I would be willing to bet all coaches mentioned above and many others set goals as lofty as being ranked #1 in the State and/ or nation which will always just be an opinion poll at the end of the day.
Just as we are all expressing our own opinions and viewpoints which are at times both correct and incorrect based on different values and different perceptions.
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Thank you OnBall. Seedings and rankings are different entities. Similar to this MVP and best player. Every year that he played Michael Jordan was the best player but he didn't always win the MVP. Steph won the MVP last year but LeBron James is the best player. Have your rankings. Tweet about them all you want. Coaches want wins against common opponents, wins against common section teams, and high profile wins. At one of the high schools I coached at, we weren't ranked but we beat the teams who were in out section and ranked ahead of us. When playoffs came we were the two seed and they all had to come to us.
You are so wrong here... they will have their goals of league, section, nor cal, and state titles and whatever ranking comes along with is great.
Mitty once had a team go undefeated in late 90s.. probably one of the best teams from the bay area of all time.. and they didnt end up #1 in the nation. I would be willing to bet more than anything that ranking had no bearing on their outlook of the season, and did not mean they did not accomplish their goal.
You can only control the product you put out (both on and off the court) and you can only play the opponent in front of you... and whatever outsiders decide at the end then so be it. Impressing others should never be a goal
Thanks for sharing your opinion, as I have only been sharing mine. Folks reading the post can draw their own conclusions on what they think about the post you make, as well as the ones I make. Could you be right and wrong at times? Yes perhaps so. Could I be right or wrong at times ? Yes perhaps so. But one thing is for sure, no one can ever pull up any of my post at any time where I tried to belittle anyone personally. Not a child/player, ref, coach, parent, or anyone else. Because I don't need to make a case for big me and little anyone else. I never felt so small, that I needed to be the big man on campus. I've always remained comfortable in my own skin. And I have always been a problem on and off the court/field for my opponents. And my opinion about coaching still stands firm. It is not that difficult to me. The common denominator to any coaching success is good support around them, accountability, and leadership. And obviously you have to at least have a clue. It doesn't matter the level from CYO to the NBA. Coaching is still coaching. Basketball is still basketball. Although the skill level, awareness, and IQ changes. And typically so does the amount of support. If it is your's or anyone else's opinion that coaching is difficult, I can respect that opinion. Obviously some coaches get it more so than others do. And some do more with less. Probably because they understand it is not rocket science. And obviously some have less talent and support to work with. Many of the better coaches like John Wooden, Chuck Noll, and many others today, have laid out some simple blue prints to follow. So creating the wheel is not necessary. But knowing when to put those you are coaching before your own ego can be a problem IMO that holds many back. Because it is that big me little everyone else ego that keeps many arrogant folks from humbling themselves IMO. Or from positively impacting and leading more people/players. That's ole school Bobby Knight kick you in the ass/ intimidation style ego maniac coaching. That, it's all about me "the coach" attitude. I'm the big boss, it's my way or the highway under any and all circumstance because I could never be wrong. I personally see that as insecurity.
But hey, I'm a player's coach. Because they are the ones who have to execute the plan on the court. To me if it's not about the players why would you ever even want to be coaching? Many of the better coaches are player coaches. They want those they are coaching to be better and wiser after leaving their team/ program. You and some others may be a coach's coach. To you perhaps the coach is always right. And winning championships at all cost is all that matters? And being a coach, you may think all coaches are perfect. Your attitude may be "I'm the coach, I'm always right, at no time will I ever sacrifice my ego for the team/ players, I don't have to. I'm the one in charge. Or " I'll answer to know one". I don't share that same view. Does that make either of us right? I guess it depends on the blinders you have on.
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