CIF State D1Norcals
- Thread starter HoopGuy03
- Start date
with my 4 NCS going to open: Salesian, C-Let, MM, CN
here are my take for D1
NCS: Heritage, CV, SRV, BOD, SJND,
SJS: CO, Antelope, Bear Creek, West Campus, McClatchy*
CCS: ESCP, Pres, SHC, SI, MA, SF
D2
NCS: Montgomey, Newark Memorial, Eureka, Arcata, Piedmont
SJS: Edison, Whitney, Del Oro, Christian Brothers, Oak Ridge*
CCS: SSF, Sequoia, Aragon, VC, Aptos,
NS: Pleasant Valley, Enterprise
here are my take for D1
NCS: Heritage, CV, SRV, BOD, SJND,
SJS: CO, Antelope, Bear Creek, West Campus, McClatchy*
CCS: ESCP, Pres, SHC, SI, MA, SF
D2
NCS: Montgomey, Newark Memorial, Eureka, Arcata, Piedmont
SJS: Edison, Whitney, Del Oro, Christian Brothers, Oak Ridge*
CCS: SSF, Sequoia, Aragon, VC, Aptos,
NS: Pleasant Valley, Enterprise
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I think Pleasant Valley is D-I. MaxPreps computer puts them there, and they have a win over Folsom.
Of course, a lot depends on how well various section commissioners do their jobs. The Northern Section rep should be doing his/her best to get PV into D2 while the CCS rep should be working hard to get MA out of D-I.
Of course, a lot depends on how well various section commissioners do their jobs. The Northern Section rep should be doing his/her best to get PV into D2 while the CCS rep should be working hard to get MA out of D-I.
Interesting ...
Clay I have a question do you think they will put all Section winners D1-D4 in D1 if they are not in the open? Example like Christian brothers a decent team and a Section winner?
Clay I have a question do you think they will put all Section winners D1-D4 in D1 if they are not in the open? Example like Christian brothers a decent team and a Section winner?
Good list. I don't think it will be that evenly distributed though. Pleasant Valley should be D-1 and south san Francisco should be as well. Valley Christian is probably a d1 candidate considering they are going to win the CCS. It really is a Toss up though it could go any way here.
Also, because C-Let is going to the open, doesn't that mean that dublin (highest seed remaining in NCS other than final 4) will get that 4th D1 slot from NCS?
True! How could they make McClatchy D1 and put Edison who beat them in the second round at D2?
all you have to do is look at the california rankings and eliminate the socal teams and you have the norcal rankings, right?
That's true, but it wouldn't be hard for them to put in a separate list as well.
Ill take a stab
Open: 1. Mitty 2. Pinewood 3. Saint Marys 4. Folsom 5. Salesian 6. Cardinal Newman 7. C-let 8. Miramonte
D1: 1. Saint Joseph Notre dame 2. Presentation 3. East side prep 4. Bishop O dowd 5. Heritage 6. Bear Creek 7. Sacred Heart Cathedral 8. Antelope 9. Mcclathy 10. Menlo -atherton 11. Campolindo 12. Edison 13. Castro valley 14. Pleasant Valley 15. South San Fransisco 16. CO/SRV/west campus/SF/Valley Christian/SI
Rough draft.
Open: 1. Mitty 2. Pinewood 3. Saint Marys 4. Folsom 5. Salesian 6. Cardinal Newman 7. C-let 8. Miramonte
D1: 1. Saint Joseph Notre dame 2. Presentation 3. East side prep 4. Bishop O dowd 5. Heritage 6. Bear Creek 7. Sacred Heart Cathedral 8. Antelope 9. Mcclathy 10. Menlo -atherton 11. Campolindo 12. Edison 13. Castro valley 14. Pleasant Valley 15. South San Fransisco 16. CO/SRV/west campus/SF/Valley Christian/SI
Rough draft.
Do you think SJND doesn't go open if they win D4? They beat C-Let. And what IF BOD beats MM? do they go open? I think if MM and SJND loses, it' gonna screw up a lot of things...and both are possibilities.
I truly believe open has already been figured out. That win by SJND while impressive was in December and I do remember Bamberger being hurtnesrly in the season. Anyone know if she played in that game? Things lije that matter when seeding which is why I am in awe that they will be seeding 88 teams in 40 hours. There will be a ton of very bad calls that will both help and hurt teams come tourney time.
Bamberger did play against SJND, and played the whole game.
So here's the kind of issue that the committee faces: Cardinal Newman vs. Miramonte, assuming both win their divisions. Cardinal Newman has a higher rating for the MaxPreps' computer, but Miramonte beat La Jolla Country Day, and Cardinal Newman lost to LJCD. But one of LJCD's starters did not play against Miramonte, and that's going to require a lot of knowledge on the part of the committee to realize that. Also, Miramonte lost to Dimond by two, and Newman lost to Dimond by 15 (or something) -- does that really matter?
Miramonte is Division II and Newman is D-IV. Does that matter?
To really work out the seeding, again assuming both win, would take a serious discussion, and have to balance competing criteria, and I just don't see how the committee, with 400 teams to seed in one day, can really drill down and do that.
So will the default be the computer ranking? Will it be higher division? Will be it common opponents? Will it be margin of victory? Will it be a Ouija board (do they still have those?)?
Finally, the computer rankings are updated Tuesday and Friday. Will MaxPreps run another one for them after Saturday's games? One hopes ...
So here's the kind of issue that the committee faces: Cardinal Newman vs. Miramonte, assuming both win their divisions. Cardinal Newman has a higher rating for the MaxPreps' computer, but Miramonte beat La Jolla Country Day, and Cardinal Newman lost to LJCD. But one of LJCD's starters did not play against Miramonte, and that's going to require a lot of knowledge on the part of the committee to realize that. Also, Miramonte lost to Dimond by two, and Newman lost to Dimond by 15 (or something) -- does that really matter?
Miramonte is Division II and Newman is D-IV. Does that matter?
To really work out the seeding, again assuming both win, would take a serious discussion, and have to balance competing criteria, and I just don't see how the committee, with 400 teams to seed in one day, can really drill down and do that.
So will the default be the computer ranking? Will it be higher division? Will be it common opponents? Will it be margin of victory? Will it be a Ouija board (do they still have those?)?
Finally, the computer rankings are updated Tuesday and Friday. Will MaxPreps run another one for them after Saturday's games? One hopes ...
With that scenario, I wouldn't be shocked if they just put CN AND MM over St. Joes. If CN beats Salesian which St Joes lost to. I think that win is more of a factor than the SJ over Clet win. Then you have your arguement settled as far as divisions because MM D2, CN D3 and SJ D4.
If CN and MM win I think SJ goes D1 for Norcals.
Cn and MM win both are in. The question is if they lose. By Clay's comments you can tell he's driving the "Tank" into the O'Dowd game.
Clay always looking to bake the cake and eat it. #agenda
I'll repeat: If we win Saturday vs. O'Dowd, we will be Open, barring a completely unforeseen committee decision. I think the same for Newman.
What I was addressing was the seeding between Newman and Miramonte -- or the seeding, say, between Rincon Valley Christian and Forest Lake Christian in D6.
Naturally, I'd like to see us seeded ahead of Newman, but it all depends on what criteria the committee uses, and how much time they have to dig into the comparison between those two of the 400 schools they have to seed.
What I was addressing was the seeding between Newman and Miramonte -- or the seeding, say, between Rincon Valley Christian and Forest Lake Christian in D6.
Naturally, I'd like to see us seeded ahead of Newman, but it all depends on what criteria the committee uses, and how much time they have to dig into the comparison between those two of the 400 schools they have to seed.
Whether Ali Bamburger played or not really doesn't matter. Results are what matters regardless to how they are achieved. St. Joseph was well prepared and out performed Carondelet on that day. And somethings are not always in one's control. Obviously Carondelet would prefer Ali Bamberger be healthy and she would always play and play well. But "teams" have to find a way to work together under any and all circumstances to pull games out and/or be successful collectively. It is not about any one person. There will always be things out of one's control. Sometimes you won't get the game called the way you think is fair but guess what... "you have to find a way to "Win Anyway". Sometimes your so call best player will get hurt, tired, or in foul trouble but guess what "you have to find a way to "Win Anyway". Sometimes your coach will make a poor decision in the starting lineup, player rotation, or which defense is best to be in at the time or that particular game, but guess what ..you have to find a way to Win Anyway" Sometimes your players will not be shooting the ball well but guess what (adjustments) "you have to find a way to Win Anyway". Sometimes the team you are playing is bigger, better, more athletic and faster than you are but guess what (adjustments)"you have to find a way to Win Anyway."Sometimes your coach and/ or players are not as good as the other team but guess what.......... Sometimes you will come out flat or be down big at half time but guess what...you have to find a way to "Win Anyway."
Mitty is in many people's opinion the best team in the nation and they have unfortunately loss perhaps one of their top three players but guess what ...they have to find a way to Win Anyway. No one, or should I say... not many, place an asterisk behind the reason for results so guess what... you have to find a way to Win Anyway". That is why team" accountability" and the team concept is so important. It's not about one player even mine or anyone else's daughter. It's not only about the coach (even though they have the most power) because they are not on the playing surface. It's not about the media hype because they are far too often wrong anyway. It's not about the refs, because they are all human and subject to many things. It is not about the schedule or the seeding because regardless you have to find a way to Win Anyway. Win or lose a game when you work unselfishly together and play with no fear while giving a great effort and great sportsmanship you present the type of class and respect for the game that allows you to IMO Win Anyway.
Disclaimer: Of course these words are not the law. The words spoken are just my opinion. They are not meant to credit or blame anyone. I am not responsible for how they are taken or who finds a way to win or lose, feel better or worse, because of them. I do hope they are helpful.
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If only one person bought it, I would "Win Anyway" Thanks for making the suggestion.
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The fact that he is a coach and continues to talk about O'dowd beating MM says it all. Go read his threads. As a parent or a player i wouldn't be happy hearing that on a message board.
Ill Shoot it..
1. SJND
2. O'dowd
3. ESP
4. Bear Creek
5. Presentation
6. Heritage
7. Antelope
8. Campolindo
9. Pleasant Valley
10. SHCP
11. Castro Valley
12. C. Oaks
13. St. Ignatious
14. Valley Christian
15. West Campus
16. M-A
D2.
1. SSF
2. Edison
3. SF
4. McClatchy
1. SJND
2. O'dowd
3. ESP
4. Bear Creek
5. Presentation
6. Heritage
7. Antelope
8. Campolindo
9. Pleasant Valley
10. SHCP
11. Castro Valley
12. C. Oaks
13. St. Ignatious
14. Valley Christian
15. West Campus
16. M-A
D2.
1. SSF
2. Edison
3. SF
4. McClatchy
They're not driving the tank. MM is a very good team but nowhere near what they were when Ionescu was there. They had success last year and have had success this year. But make NO mistake, BOD is a VERY good and formidable team. Outside of six schools in CA, BOD has played the toughest schedule and is 18-10. They're quicker, more physical than MM but I think MM has a better overall team. I had to admit this, but Sopek is also a much better coach that McCord. A classic system (they don't play, they're taught a system) vs. a team that's full of great athletes where they just play.
Saturday is going to be a great game. Again, if MM loses they're out of open, but what does that do for BOD?? Are they in??
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dont think BOD in if they win. too many other choices out there. I've said all along that these 6 are in (Mitty, SMS, PINE, Folsom, Salesian, CAR), last 2 spots have options. If MM loses, then still have CN, SJND, Bear Creek as possibilities. And if you go off maxpreps, even have ESP and Presentation.
also a test case for the All Challenge All the Time School of Improvement vs. the softer alternative. at #27 by maxpreps AI, MM has the lowest SOS of the top 27. keep in mind that these sandbaggers have never lost to a lower seeded team in NCS or State under the current coach and his scheduling philosophy, and have pulled a few upsets. there is certainly more than one way to slice an apple,and it is only a single contest, not a clash of civilizations... both Salesian/CN and MM/BOD could be exciting games to watch. of course Mitty/Pinewood will be Friday night's main course.
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That's an interesting point ... on the one hand, to have a coach saying they might lose a game in a public message board might offend some people, and some people affiliated with the program. On the other hand, going into every game saying you're going to win for sure isn't necessarily realistic.
I always tried to be honest with my players about how the game stacked up. Sometimes, at Bentley, we had no chance to win and of course the girls and parents knew that. Then, I would say something along the lines of "We want to compete every possession, and try to win every possession" so as not to focus on the score.
Other times it would be "If we play our A game, and they don't, we should win," or vice versa.
As a philosophy major, one of the things I have drawn from the studies and reading is "There are no absolutes; there is no certainty," and I would be untrue to myself -- as well as to the players -- if I said "We will beat Bishop O'Dowd."
Bishop O'Dowd is really good, and our league is much weaker, so we haven't been challenged nearly as much as they have -- especially with Campo plagued with injuries.
I very much would like to beat Bishop O'Dowd, something I never could do at Campo as a head coach. I think having that section banner on the wall is something to be very proud of, and though some may say teams should lose to avoid the Open, I think that's a fool's game, because NorCal D-I will be brutal, and the SoCal champion will be extremely good. Take your banners when you can get them, if you can get them ... I'd love to get one Saturday night, but that's far from a done deal. Check with me Sunday morning ...
I always tried to be honest with my players about how the game stacked up. Sometimes, at Bentley, we had no chance to win and of course the girls and parents knew that. Then, I would say something along the lines of "We want to compete every possession, and try to win every possession" so as not to focus on the score.
Other times it would be "If we play our A game, and they don't, we should win," or vice versa.
As a philosophy major, one of the things I have drawn from the studies and reading is "There are no absolutes; there is no certainty," and I would be untrue to myself -- as well as to the players -- if I said "We will beat Bishop O'Dowd."
Bishop O'Dowd is really good, and our league is much weaker, so we haven't been challenged nearly as much as they have -- especially with Campo plagued with injuries.
I very much would like to beat Bishop O'Dowd, something I never could do at Campo as a head coach. I think having that section banner on the wall is something to be very proud of, and though some may say teams should lose to avoid the Open, I think that's a fool's game, because NorCal D-I will be brutal, and the SoCal champion will be extremely good. Take your banners when you can get them, if you can get them ... I'd love to get one Saturday night, but that's far from a done deal. Check with me Sunday morning ...
I can't even believe throwing a game, no less a Section final game to avoid the open is even being talked about. Any coach that would do something like that should be BANNED from coaching. I understand not wanting to be put into the open but Section championships are NOT easy to come by and to have an opportunity and throw it away because you're a coward is beyond disgust.
Just Sayin
Just Sayin
That's how it was done last year. This year Dublin could land in another division as well
I CANT BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD DONT HAVE ST JOES IN THE OPEN IF THEY WIN NCS D4!!!!
are you people just not paying attention???
LOOK AT THEIR SCHEDULE AND BREAK IT DOWN!!
1st....
EVERY YEAR the OPEN has been in existence the NCS D4 champ has been put in the OPEN.
3 DIFFERENT TEAMS
2nd....
the pedigree argument.... the "they deserve a chance at a state title " argument
IF SJ wins the section it will be their 2nd section title in 3yrs....with a runnerup the 3rd yr.
2 yrs ago they lost in the D5 NORCAL final to ESP...
last yr they lost to WEST CAPMUS in the D4 NORCAL FINAL...
BOTH of those teams won their state championship game..
In other words their resume has been top notch the last 3 seasons....
How many passes do they get??? They had LEGIT chances the last 2 yrs to win a state title.
3RD...
Yea but their SOS/maxpreps rankings are lower than everyone else
Oh really?
Have you actually looked at their schedule (outside of league)?
Their league schedule stinks..no doubt...and the MAXPREPS computer punishes them for it.
The exact OPPOSITE of Presentation HS who the computer LOVES because of their league.
Non League schedule
Oregon City (w) 70-56
CLET (w) 55-54
Valley Christian SJ (w) 61-48
REDONDO UNION (25-5) top 20 in state Cal hi and maxpreps (L) 50-48
Mark Keppel (29-4) 63rd by max preps (w) 61-49
MITTY (L) 70-48 a game where SJ was down 1 going into the 4th...and where SJ went
TOE 2 TOE against a FULLY LOADED MITTY squad. How has MITTY done against the other OPEN potential teams? SJ with a 22 pt loss? that is EXTREMELY impressive!!!
PW (L) 64-36 PW also beat BOD by 28, CLET by 26, Presentation by 27
SALESIAN (L) 50-41
so by my calculations SJ has played 8 VERY good opponents in their non league schedule
and they have gone 4-4
with wins over a probable OPEN team CLET, an EXCELLENT M Keppel team from Socal and a close loss to a top 20 team(Redondo U) by 2 in a battle...
AND gave MITTY (the #1 team in the country...FULLY LOADED WITH NO INJURIES)
one of their toughest games of their season....
other notable MITTY wins??
RIVERDALE (TENN) by 14
BOD by 34 & 22
McClatchy by 51
Chaminade by 43
FOLSOM by 49
CLET by 14
St Joes 22???
CMON NCP Board...give SJ the credit and due they deserve.
I think the NCP board is just overlooking SJ because the name doesn't leap out at you like the other squads do....
BUT based on their resume.....head to head, notable wins and good losses?
SJND is DEFINITELY an OPEN team
are you people just not paying attention???
LOOK AT THEIR SCHEDULE AND BREAK IT DOWN!!
1st....
EVERY YEAR the OPEN has been in existence the NCS D4 champ has been put in the OPEN.
3 DIFFERENT TEAMS
2nd....
the pedigree argument.... the "they deserve a chance at a state title " argument
IF SJ wins the section it will be their 2nd section title in 3yrs....with a runnerup the 3rd yr.
2 yrs ago they lost in the D5 NORCAL final to ESP...
last yr they lost to WEST CAPMUS in the D4 NORCAL FINAL...
BOTH of those teams won their state championship game..
In other words their resume has been top notch the last 3 seasons....
How many passes do they get??? They had LEGIT chances the last 2 yrs to win a state title.
3RD...
Yea but their SOS/maxpreps rankings are lower than everyone else
Oh really?
Have you actually looked at their schedule (outside of league)?
Their league schedule stinks..no doubt...and the MAXPREPS computer punishes them for it.
The exact OPPOSITE of Presentation HS who the computer LOVES because of their league.
Non League schedule
Oregon City (w) 70-56
CLET (w) 55-54
Valley Christian SJ (w) 61-48
REDONDO UNION (25-5) top 20 in state Cal hi and maxpreps (L) 50-48
Mark Keppel (29-4) 63rd by max preps (w) 61-49
MITTY (L) 70-48 a game where SJ was down 1 going into the 4th...and where SJ went
TOE 2 TOE against a FULLY LOADED MITTY squad. How has MITTY done against the other OPEN potential teams? SJ with a 22 pt loss? that is EXTREMELY impressive!!!
PW (L) 64-36 PW also beat BOD by 28, CLET by 26, Presentation by 27
SALESIAN (L) 50-41
so by my calculations SJ has played 8 VERY good opponents in their non league schedule
and they have gone 4-4
with wins over a probable OPEN team CLET, an EXCELLENT M Keppel team from Socal and a close loss to a top 20 team(Redondo U) by 2 in a battle...
AND gave MITTY (the #1 team in the country...FULLY LOADED WITH NO INJURIES)
one of their toughest games of their season....
other notable MITTY wins??
RIVERDALE (TENN) by 14
BOD by 34 & 22
McClatchy by 51
Chaminade by 43
FOLSOM by 49
CLET by 14
St Joes 22???
CMON NCP Board...give SJ the credit and due they deserve.
I think the NCP board is just overlooking SJ because the name doesn't leap out at you like the other squads do....
BUT based on their resume.....head to head, notable wins and good losses?
SJND is DEFINITELY an OPEN team
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Azanna--
certainly, among the successful, competitive teams that are left in section finals, everyone is going out there to win. it's talked about by posters here--wannabe wheeler-dealers who think they know how to game systems to get ahead, and figure it's the path to success (NCAA consultants?). it says more about the posters and their lives than about the teams or coaches mentioned.
certainly, among the successful, competitive teams that are left in section finals, everyone is going out there to win. it's talked about by posters here--wannabe wheeler-dealers who think they know how to game systems to get ahead, and figure it's the path to success (NCAA consultants?). it says more about the posters and their lives than about the teams or coaches mentioned.
So who do you leave out then? You can make some of the same arguments for CN and MM. I am worried that the committee will not have the knowledge, time, or information that many on this board have. And they will leave a lot up to maxpreps rankings in which teams with very weak league schedules hurt their SOS. SJND is all the way down at 20 in NorCal maxpreps rankings! They would have to actually dig into a lot more information such as what you did to move them up from 20 to top 8.
