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MIRAMONTE 4 PEAT ARTICLE ON NCP.

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northbaybbguru

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CLAYK....

quite often when you write something you downplay MM for the OPEN...and I cant blame you. Potentially you have 2 of the top 5 teams in the country in the North if CW is moved up north for the OPEN. And if you stay in D2 you have a legit shot(norcal favorite) at D2 state championship...
BUT......the article speaks VOLUMES!!!
If you win you will be a 4 time in a row NCS champ. You've been in the OPEN every year its been in existence...AND you will be 26-3. AND there is a good chance you may running clock everybody in sections.

How do you NOT go? Especially if CW doesn't come north.
 
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northbaybbguru said:
CLAYK....

quite often when you write something you downplay MM for the OPEN...and I cant blame you. Potentially you have 2 of the top 5 teams in the country in the North if CW is moved up north for the OPEN. And if you stay in D2 you have a legit shot(norcal favorite) at D2 state championship...
BUT......the article speaks VOLUMES!!!
If you win you will be a 4 time in a row NCS champ. You've been in the OPEN every year its been in existence...AND you will be 26-3. AND there is a good chance you may running clock everybody in sections.

How do you NOT go? Especially if CW doesn't come north.
Click to expand...
What article are you talking about? Can you put in a link to it?
 
The point would be that those achievements are not the achievements of this year's team -- and you might recall there was an Ionescu kid who played for four years at Miramonte and was pretty good, people say.

The real question, though, is this: Is the Open for this year's best teams -- in which case Folsom should be eligible -- or for teams that have been good in recent years? It would seem to me that if competitive equity is the goal, that the Open should be this year's best teams.

But if you want to refer to history, Miramonte has never won a state title, unlike every other contender for the Open. And one year they got bumped to the Open after losing by 30 in the section final.
 
Northbay

Are you saying MM might get throw to wolves like Brookside??? You now what the say about Karma ???
 
the point being....

that MM had no problem at all when they were one of the BIG DOGS around the state. They would routinely DESTROY teams on a regular basis. Now that the playing field has been leveled they want to run and hide?
They had a chance to win the OPEN state title last year. You did play in the OPEN final last year, right???Cmon CLAYK you've thrown Heritage,Fulsom and Sac hi as names for the OPEN instead of MM....seriously?
 
None of the teams you just mentioned would beat MM. THEY are definitely a top 8 team no matter how u slice unless politics plays heavily into the decision
 
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Passionate

Not this year not even close to last year. This was no American candidate like last year. There is only one big name know across the nation and that is DeCosta. Nobody fears them like last year. The bench play not like last year! But they are a good team and that is it!!
 
unless something drastic happens in sectionals... aka they take a dive.. MM will have to be in open.. they have the record (2 out of 3 losses came from out of state).. and they have the recent history.. CamAca said it right, unless some lobbying/influence goes into it they should be in the open
 
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I personally think 2 teams are coming out of the SJS.

I think if SMS and McClatchy are in the SJS D1 finals and McC wins...they both go. Potentially setting up a Mitty/SMS 1st round matchup. If SMS wins....then it will be a coinflip between D1 runner up and D2 winner with that team as #8 matched up vs Mitty

at least that's how I see it....

I think the #2 team out of the SJS is most likely to get that #8 seed and 1st round matchup with mitty
BUT.....if Salesian was to take 2nd in the NCS D3 and they were chosen over CN because of their H2H over CN.....THEN I think Salesian would get the 8th seed because of SMS H2H over Salesian.
 
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That's fair enough, but
Decosta top 5 USA Today
Johnson top 50 , 2018 class nationally
Young, offers from Illinois, sdsu , LMU, and interest from others
Murray all-state guard a year ago
Oliver, off the charts frosh
But that being said they haven't been healthy
 
Passionate

I said they are good but not like last year. The bench with starts now was way better then this year. There is no Tudor 3pt shooter, there is no Clayton set the tempo, there is no Smith to be the Intimidator rebounder and there us no S. Smith to run the show. They are good but not like last year!!!!!! The come no where near last year team!!!!!
 
Ariel Johnson more than feels the pt guard roll , Murray was their leading 3 pt shooter makes and pct last year . Cayton is hard to replace , but decosta is way better than last year . Oliver is scary . Young is streaky. All Ivy League teams r recruiting her , , but big 12 Illinois, that's huge. And they all. One back next year, except Murray.
 
RoundBaller81

The will be a great team next year but not this year. Johnson is good player but more a 2 guard then a point guard. DeCosta is DeCosta the nation knows that. Oliver is a good freshman the question is how good will SMS be after next year's graduation. That means DeCosta, Johnson and N. Young. What then that's the question???
 
All I'm saying is they lost to cw by 5 and centennial by 3 without Murray. That would be a concern if they all peak at the right time. I think Murray is worth 10-15 pts or more. A lot of ifs though.
 
Passionate

Murray will when she gets her sealers back but it will take 3 to 5 games. I watch the game Lincoln vs SMS look like she was force the score and she was in her normal rhythm. DeCosta will make a big difference if she is healthy but the same with her take a few games to get her sealegs!!!!
 
CamAca said:
MM. THEY are definitely a top 8 team
Click to expand...

an overstatement. by maxpreps algorithm (which I don't think is the last word), they're #9 in a norcal without CW. no offense, but I think we can toss MA without the sisters, which leaves them an unfortunate #8. this is assuming the higher ranked teams win out, as does MM, although 3 are in CCS, thus 2 will take a loss in CCS Open.

their 3 losses were "good" (out-of-state winners are ranked higher, losses by 2 and 4), Campo is underrated and is an "anything can happen" rivalry game. I just don't see a statement win. They're a good team, just not as good as 8 other MM teams I've seen, or as good as 14 of the 15 Open teams I've seen (4MM, 11 opponents). not "definitely", and where CW lands may make the difference.

full disclosure--I like my recliner a lot, and CIF announced Norcal finals for all but Open and D1 will be on the home court on the higher seeded team. could be as many as 5 games at MM if they stay D2, with one in far-distant Moraga (SMC).

but somebody's got to be #8...
 
We need posters to state what school they are supporting when opining on teams going to the open. I think CW is coming North and if not the breakdown is CCS 3, NCS 3 & SJS 2. Place the teams in how you see fit. For me, I look at quality wins and SOS.
 
ClayK said:
The point would be that those achievements are not the achievements of this year's team -- and you might recall there was an Ionescu kid who played for four years at Miramonte and was pretty good, people say.

The real question, though, is this: Is the Open for this year's best teams -- in which case Folsom should be eligible -- or for teams that have been good in recent years? It would seem to me that if competitive equity is the goal, that the Open should be this year's best teams.

But if you want to refer to history, Miramonte has never won a state title, unlike every other contender for the Open. And one year they got bumped to the Open after losing by 30 in the section final.
Click to expand...

Salesian also has not won a State title....yet

p.s. I support Salesian :)
 
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ClayK said:
The point would be that those achievements are not the achievements of this year's team -- and you might recall there was an Ionescu kid who played for four years at Miramonte and was pretty good, people say.

The real question, though, is this: Is the Open for this year's best teams -- in which case Folsom should be eligible -- or for teams that have been good in recent years? It would seem to me that if competitive equity is the goal, that the Open should be this year's best teams.

But if you want to refer to history, Miramonte has never won a state title, unlike every other contender for the Open. And one year they got bumped to the Open after losing by 30 in the section final.
Click to expand...

Clay,

Miramonte is 22-3 and SMS is 16-8 and ranked 8th in the state. Meaning MM should be ranked at least in the top 7 in the state, not just Norcal. So based on your own words "the scoreboard doesn't lie" it's hard not to put MM in the open. It appears to me MM should be in to open. Please keep in mind "the scoreboard doesn't lie". LOL.........
 
Obviously I favor Miramonte, and despite what Erin Davenport said in the CIF media conference, the goal for almost every team is to flee the Open -- and I think the issue with northbayguru is that he wants Cardinal Newman out and Miramonte in. Fair enough, and if it came down to those two, I'd rather have Cardinal Newman in and Miramonte out.

I don't think Salesian goes Open unless they win D3, which is possible, and the other question is whether four NCS teams go -- as has happened three of the past four years -- or just three. If it's four, Newman and Miramonte are both in; if it's three ... well, let's look.

Cardinal Newman (24-3, MaxPreps' computer 31.1, MP strength of schedule, 17.0, Cal-Hi state rankings 7; defending state champion)

Best wins: Campolindo 85-54, Eastside College Prep 48-46, SHC 68-58, SMS 53-46

Losses: SMS 74-55, Salesian 48-40, O'Dowd 58-48

Miramonte (22-3, MP 28.2, MP SOS 14.2, Cal-Hi NR; defending NorCal Open champion)

Best wins: Campolindo 73-59, Brea-Olinda 52-47, Cactus Shadows AZ 48-46, St. Francis (Sac) 63-53,

Losses: Campolindo 49-44, Highlands Ranch 49-45, Southridge OR 64-62

Common opponents

Campolindo: CN 1-0 (85-54); Miramonte 1-1 (73-59, 44-49)
Oak Ridge: CN 1-0 (60-29); Miramonte 1-0 (75-48)
Montgomery: CN 2-0 (76-32, 76-48); Miramonte 1-0 (74-30)

So if you took the names off, which team has the better resume for the 2016-17 season?
 
ClayK said:
Obviously I favor Miramonte, and despite what Erin Davenport said in the CIF media conference, the goal for almost every team is to flee the Open -- and I think the issue with northbayguru is that he wants Cardinal Newman out and Miramonte in. Fair enough, and if it came down to those two, I'd rather have Cardinal Newman in and Miramonte out.

I don't think Salesian goes Open unless they win D3, which is possible, and the other question is whether four NCS teams go -- as has happened three of the past four years -- or just three. If it's four, Newman and Miramonte are both in; if it's three ... well, let's look.

Cardinal Newman (24-3, MaxPreps' computer 31.1, MP strength of schedule, 17.0, Cal-Hi state rankings 7; defending state champion)

Best wins: Campolindo 85-54, Eastside College Prep 48-46, SHC 68-58, SMS 53-46

Losses: SMS 74-55, Salesian 48-40, O'Dowd 58-48

Miramonte (22-3, MP 28.2, MP SOS 14.2, Cal-Hi NR; defending NorCal Open champion)

Best wins: Campolindo 73-59, Brea-Olinda 52-47, Cactus Shadows AZ 48-46, St. Francis (Sac) 63-53,

Losses: Campolindo 49-44, Highlands Ranch 49-45, Southridge OR 64-62

Common opponents

Campolindo: CN 1-0 (85-54); Miramonte 1-1 (73-59, 44-49)
Oak Ridge: CN 1-0 (60-29); Miramonte 1-0 (75-48)
Montgomery: CN 2-0 (76-32, 76-48); Miramonte 1-0 (74-30)

So if you took the names off, which team has the better resume for the 2016-17 season?
Click to expand...


I agree with much of that. But Carondelet has four losses and those two teams only 3. So based on your own words ....." the scoreboard doesn't lie" both of those teams should go to the open before Carondelet and any other team with more than 3 losses. Because the scoreboard doesn't lie...... right? LOL..............
 
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Didn't think the article would go down this road, but everything points back to Open in the current HS landscape.

Here is my take (Without CW in the North)

3 CCS: Mitty, SHC, Pinewood
4 NCS: Carondelet and O'Dowd are solid and then its Salesian, Miramonte and CN. I think CN and Miramonte are the choices
1 SJS: D1 winner (St. Mary's being the favorite)

It gets tricky if CW is in the North bracket or if St. Mary's loses (as well as any other upsets). I do think Miramonte is in the 8th spot, so they are right on the tipping point
 
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1.Mitty
2.Carondelet
3.BOD
4.Pinewood
5.CN
6.SHC
7.St Mary's
8.Miramonte
These are the 8 best teams and would have some really good matchups. Mitty/Pinewood and BOD/St Mary's would be interesting semi-final games in my opinion.
Out-McClatchy,Salesian,Campo,Heritage
 
That's pretty much how we see it -- a first-round trip to Mitty, which is a horrid matchup for us. As I mentioned before, both their guards are taller than our tallest player, not to mention they're Power 5 kids. Or they can start Heleyna Hill, who's going to San Jose State, since we have no answer for Garza inside.

It would be fun to play any of those other teams, as we wouldn't be at the same level of physical disadvantage.

And on another note, most teams that trying to get out of the Open are saying other teams should get in (Cardinal Newman pushing Miramonte is just one example), but once in, the argument shifts to which team should have the higher seed. If indeed CN is behind Miramonte, then shouldn't they be seeded eighth? If CN deserves a higher seed, then CN should go if NCS only gets three. You're not supposed to have it both ways.
 
No matter what CIF says, the maneuvering to stay out of the Open Division is real. Teams still see it as a penalty outside of the 1-3 teams that can actually win it depending on a given year
 
Salesian is likely in. They have wins over Cardinal Newman and Bishop O'Dowd plus a win over LCD who just beat Bishops. What four go in for NCS I do not know nor do I care but the if past history has shown anything it is significant win or wins will get you in. The the eight teams with the most significant wins and that is who is going to be placed in the Open.

CCS 3 Mitty pinewood shc
NCS 3 BOD, Carondelet & Salesian
SJS 2 SMS & TBA

Mitty vs TBA
SMS vs Salesian
BOD vs Sacred Heart
Carondelet vs Pinewood

If you don't like a team that I have in replace it with another that you do like but the top six, barring upsets are a lock
1. Mitty
2. BOD
3. Carondelet
4. SM Stockton
5. Salesian
6. Pinewood
 
I don't think SJS will get 2 teams selected for Open unless CKM or Lincoln upsets St Mary's. I think NCS deserves 4 teams in. If you think Salesian is in, then that would make Clay happy and move Miramonte out. I think CN definitely deserves to be in Open - "significant" wins over SHC twice and split with SMS (although injuries factored in), and State Champion last year.

1.Mitty
2.BOD
3.Carondelet
4.Pinewood
5.CN
6.St. Mary's
7.SHC
8.Salesian
Still would get good Mitty/Pinewood and BOD/St Mary's semi-finals games.
 
The committee might seed by playoff strength!!!!

1) Misty
2) Carondelet
3) SMS if they win
4) BOD
5) Salesman
6) SHC or Pinewood
7) CN or SJS runner up SMS
8) MM

BUT who knows it's that time of the year play your best or go home??
 
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RespectBBGame said:
The committee might seed by playoff strength!!!!

1) Misty
2) Carondelet
3) SMS if they win
4) BOD
5) Salesman
6) SHC or Pinewood
7) CN or SJS runner up SMS
8) MM

BUT who knows it's that time of the year play your best or go home??
Click to expand...

You know no team can beat Misty. So it's really not fair to even have Misty in the field with all the other regular teams. Salesman are the team that pulled one of the upset last season along with Pinewood. So who knows how it will all unfold. But at least under your scenario MM has to play Misty first to soften them up a bit. LOL.......
 
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Carondelet is the only team in my locks that should have a * as they have been known to dump games when they matter most. D1 section is not a lock as they have some sever e limitations, especially at the guard play. They go as their bigs go for sure.

SMS can only get a #4 at best and possibly a 5 seed if pinewood makes the finals. Rematch but it will happen in the Los Altos Hills.
 
ClayK said:
That's pretty much how we see it -- a first-round trip to Mitty, which is a horrid matchup for us. As I mentioned before, both their guards are taller than our tallest player, not to mention they're Power 5 kids. Or they can start Heleyna Hill, who's going to San Jose State, since we have no answer for Garza inside.

It would be fun to play any of those other teams, as we wouldn't be at the same level of physical disadvantage.

And on another note, most teams that trying to get out of the Open are saying other teams should get in (Cardinal Newman pushing Miramonte is just one example), but once in, the argument shifts to which team should have the higher seed. If indeed CN is behind Miramonte, then shouldn't they be seeded eighth? If CN deserves a higher seed, then CN should go if NCS only gets three. You're not supposed to have it both ways.
Click to expand...


WAIT!!! what what what?!?!?!?

excuse me ClayK when did I ever say CN doesn't deserve to be in the OPEN??????
In fact CN scheduled their preseason accordingly with the expectation of going....

All along I have said there were 5 potential OPEN teams in NCS...BOD, CLET, CN, MM, SALESIAN....and possibly maybe 6 now if CAMPO wins D3.

I'M NOT THE ONE WHINING ABOUT GOING TO THE OPEN!! That would be the assistant coach at MM.

***** THE POINT I AM MAKING ABOUT MM IS THAT THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE AN OPEN RESUME AND TO BE ON NCP WHINING AND COMPLAINING ABOUT EVEN BEING CONSIDERED IS RIDICULOUS.
 
I confess to the whining ... I think, though, that every program would like to have a state championship banner on the wall. Salesian does not; Miramonte does not.

So if you are going to look at history to determine this year's placement in the Open -- which I disagree with -- then shouldn't state championships be taken into account? In other words, if your case is that Miramonte has been tremendously successful in recent years, thanks in great part to a graduated player who is now in the conversation for NCAA Freshman of the Year, shouldn't it also be taken into account that Miramonte has never won a state title?

It seems to me, on the other hand, that's what has happened in the past should have no bearing on this year's seedings, for Cardinal Newman or SMS or Miramonte. (If Cardinal Newman were to win the Division IV state title again this year, for example, would that mean they should be Open next year, even though they graduate five seniors?)

If Miramonte is one of the seven or eight best teams in Northern California based on this year's results, then the Open designation is fair. But Miramonte, and SMS and every other team, should not be judged on previous success or lack thereof (why Folsom cannot be considered because of what happened three years ago is a mystery to me -- and those criteria do not apply in the South).

If the idea of the Open is let the best teams decide on the court who's the best, then what happened three years seems irrelevant, at least to me. What should matter is what happened this year ...
 
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ClayK said:
If the idea of the Open is let the best teams decide on the court who's the best
Click to expand...

but.. is that the idea?? or is it to trophy share and make sure everyone gets their pat on the back?? I'm sure it wasn't the schools winning that complained and wanted a change in format.. But instead probably those who had zero state titles that wanted one..
 
Either way, though, the system should still focus on this year's results, not historical results. For example, Brea-Olinda has won more state titles than any team, so should they always be Open until someone catches them?
 
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