So who do I like.. Corey and Donovan …
On a shoestring budget sometimes with 6 kids suiting up for games
On a shoestring budget sometimes with 6 kids suiting up for games
NCS OPEN predictions
- Thread starter northbaybbguru
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That's awesome. But as Tara VanDerveer re-quoted "You can't win the Kentucky Derby on a Donkey". Building a program is a skillset that is disrespected. The coaches you seem to dislike are program builders. Wherever they go the program was better in their hands than when they got there.
You think these all-Americans showing up for Geno or Uconn? They going to Uconn for the man that built the program, with the vision of Pat Meiser. There was no budget for the squad when Geno came in. They wasn't even charging admission to games. Pat and Geno changed that in a time most thought women basketball would fall off. Now they doing multi-million dollar TV deals. If you can't respect that I'm not sure what to tell ya. That's growing the game.
You think these all-Americans showing up for Geno or Uconn? They going to Uconn for the man that built the program, with the vision of Pat Meiser. There was no budget for the squad when Geno came in. They wasn't even charging admission to games. Pat and Geno changed that in a time most thought women basketball would fall off. Now they doing multi-million dollar TV deals. If you can't respect that I'm not sure what to tell ya. That's growing the game.
I think Sue does a great job with her teams. They've ran into some teams in the open finals that were having great shooting nights. Doc does do more with less as he has never had a team with more than 3 BCS kids on his teams and the others are "role" players. He upset the #1 teams in the nation twice (SMS and Mitty) in the open playoffs. Sopak is an overrated coach that had a lot success with Sabrina. Post Sabrina, they haven't done much. Does he win? YES! but he also ducks competition like in the WCJ. Everyone talks about zone vs. man and the only one who consistently plays zone is C-let. When they try to play man, it's obvious that they don't spend much time in practice doing shell drills. Teaching man is VERY hard and a reason why you see a lot of coaches playing zone. Antelope is a GREAT example of this. All that athleticism and sitting back in a zone. works against marginal teams but tell me the last time a zone team won in the open or even D1?
Now where Sopak shines is in AAU. He's a great recruiter and gets kids that fit his system. The proof is in the pudding with a couple of national titles. AAU is a MUCH different beast than HS. I'm not saying he's kibbles, but not in the conversation with Doc, Sue, or Monica, and I'd even throw in Cristiano at San Ramon who has made a big believer out of me since taking over the program a few years ago. The bottom line is that all these coaches are creating pathways for girls to get to the next level and I don't see any of the keyboard Karens (including me) out there making it happen.
Good conversation!
Layla Dixon led Carondelet with 17 pionts. Kent and Cummins combined for 27 points. Ariana Hallstrom had 13 points for the Dons, who were without Natalie Lyons - https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/16/carondelet-holds-off-acalanes-in-ncs-open-girls-thriller/
26' Dixon had a great game. Impressed with the Acalanes players and coaching staff. Aside from Lyons not suiting up, they lost two other key players to head injuries and still the game was tied with less than a minute to go. Congratulation to to the Cougars.
When you're talking about any of the top programs, Sue, Kelly, Doc, Margret, John, Steve, Monica, Malik, etc. they are all very, very good. Coaches have different strength just like players. For example; The "do more with less" might be Doc, he's a great skill and development coach, others may be game strategy and adjustments, creating offenses, building culture, etc. Let's not knock any coaches good or bad they all deserve a thank you for committing a lot of time for very little money and they spend more time with players than their school teachers and in some cases their parents so start believing and supporting them. I can't imagine putting in all that time, energy and helping these kids become better overall young ladies and then to be judge, makes no sense. The coach that's up and coming is at Marin Catholic, Ashley Saia she's a MC alumni. In her first five and half seasons she has over 130 wins and likely to get a few more this post season. To me it looks like she can develop players and what I've heard is the culture is over the top good.
I like Pinewood and Doc, but as someone said, it's a false narrative that he does more with less. His program and school is 4x smaller. He's not going to have 50 kids with a frosh, JV, and varsity like Mitty or Clet. He and his staff hand picks a few key pieces. All these programs are successful due to 1, 2, or 3 key pieces, the rest are hard working role players. The rest for Pinewood happens to be 8 kids, while for Mitty or Clet, the rest is going to be like 30. Is that do more with less? Not really. You get to an open state championship with the 1-3 key pieces.
i dont get why you get credit for doing more with less. it isnt like he is rolling out there with kids who have never touched a ball.
coaching talent is just as hard as coaching no talent. but his teams have talent.
they have talent to fit what they do, and sure maybe they wouldnt play at mitty or st marys, but they aint scrubs.
this year they are 13-10 with losses to all the elite bay teams. why isnt more with less working this season?
coaching talent is just as hard as coaching no talent. but his teams have talent.
they have talent to fit what they do, and sure maybe they wouldnt play at mitty or st marys, but they aint scrubs.
this year they are 13-10 with losses to all the elite bay teams. why isnt more with less working this season?
It's a whole lot less than expected.
Pinewood's starting center and starting point guard from a year ago were lost to season-ending injuries. Three girls who transferred in were ineligible to play all year.
In the two games where they had both a healthy point guard and their lone eligible transfer, they beat Salesian and Moreau on the road. They were leading O-Tech when the point guard got hurt.
With the little they have left, they gave Carondelet a very tough game last week.
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Have you seen who they've had this season? MOST of those kids have been playing with Doc and Co. since middle school and have been developed since an early age. Losing two key players and not playing with all the transfers have not helped. 13-10 with his team and the schedule he's played is better than say a University team with over 20 wins (great season by the way) in D5 (pinewoods normal division)
Last one on this subject, need to move on to current events and better storylines in GBB.
"More with Less" narrative coming from private schools is on Richard Pryor funny levels. Doc CANNOT be the poster coach for "More with Less". I understand he had that triple OT upset against Mitty and beat St. Mary's. But two upsets isn't more. Pinewood has not done more than Mitty in the open era (do the research). And he is not working with less than most other high schools either. But keeping it on the private school level he's not working with less than Mertle. She has a better shot finding the next Farmer of America or wine maker than she does a Haley Jones or Hannah Jump. Mind you a lot of Mertle's "role" players go to 2-year colleges and some don't even play after high school.
The "role" players at Pinewood are still very good. With a lot of them playing at 4-year colleges after Pinewood. Main difference between Div 1 and the other college levels is size for position and athleticism, NOT skill. Pinewood has highly skilled ball players (credit to Doc). There are plenty of D2 and D3 recruits that are more skilled and have better high school careers than some D1 recruits. However, potential is a recruiting tool so size for position and athleticism win the recruiting war in most cases. So stop the disrespect to these Pinewood kids.
Also, the Sopak overrated nonsense is wild. Sabrina or not the man took a public to the open ship. There have been better teams that have not made it to the open ship (from norcal and socal), so give the guy some credit. Can we wait and see what he does on a level playing field at a private before the over hype talk? Cuz after all wasn't the open made for primarily privates?
Respect all these coaches for putting in time with these kids!
"More with Less" narrative coming from private schools is on Richard Pryor funny levels. Doc CANNOT be the poster coach for "More with Less". I understand he had that triple OT upset against Mitty and beat St. Mary's. But two upsets isn't more. Pinewood has not done more than Mitty in the open era (do the research). And he is not working with less than most other high schools either. But keeping it on the private school level he's not working with less than Mertle. She has a better shot finding the next Farmer of America or wine maker than she does a Haley Jones or Hannah Jump. Mind you a lot of Mertle's "role" players go to 2-year colleges and some don't even play after high school.
The "role" players at Pinewood are still very good. With a lot of them playing at 4-year colleges after Pinewood. Main difference between Div 1 and the other college levels is size for position and athleticism, NOT skill. Pinewood has highly skilled ball players (credit to Doc). There are plenty of D2 and D3 recruits that are more skilled and have better high school careers than some D1 recruits. However, potential is a recruiting tool so size for position and athleticism win the recruiting war in most cases. So stop the disrespect to these Pinewood kids.
Also, the Sopak overrated nonsense is wild. Sabrina or not the man took a public to the open ship. There have been better teams that have not made it to the open ship (from norcal and socal), so give the guy some credit. Can we wait and see what he does on a level playing field at a private before the over hype talk? Cuz after all wasn't the open made for primarily privates?
Respect all these coaches for putting in time with these kids!
More with less?
Just to add to HoopDreamz415's point...
There isnt a single girl on CNs roster right now with an offer.
Just thought I'd point that out. 🤷
Just to add to HoopDreamz415's point...
There isnt a single girl on CNs roster right now with an offer.
Just thought I'd point that out. 🤷
for reals, don't start with the public school BS. Many of the kids in that program while he was at MM was not even from the Lamorinda area when they made that run. Delos Santos, Howard, Bryant, all kids who did not live in the Lamorinda area and most of the best players during his stay were NOT from the Lamorinda area.
Sabrina, Howard, Steele, and Bryant (track) all were D1 athletes. It's different than say Clay, Casey Rush, or even Scott Brown who's teams won with Lamorinda kids. Again, I'm not trashing him and think he's a great AAU coach, and better than average HS coach. I was just having fun...
Pinewood has done MORE with LESS. How many D1 players does Sue have on an average year (since the open) on her roster? How many had PW had? They both have two state finals appearances. PW has upset the #1 team in the nation twice during those runs in the playoffs. How many times has Mitty beat a number one team during that time? Both teams are amazing and both coaches are legit. Again, look at both rosters and tell me PW should have been in ANY of those games they've played.
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And Sabrina was from Walnut Creek. I’m sure she would have gone to Northgate if Kelly had still been coaching there.
Trying to end this man. Asked for people to do the research but you came back with the same two upsets and false state records.
Since 2012 Mitty is 7-2 Heads up against Pinewood with a win margin of 13. So I need you to uncap lock your "More" and chill out. Mitty has actually been to 3 state open ships NOT 2: faced CW, La Jolla Country Day (game canceled) and Sierra Canyon. Mitty has beat more nationally ranked teams than Pinewood in that span. I'm not doing anymore of your homework but I'll throw you a bone, Mitty beat #1 ranked Riverdale on the way to winning TOC (that's how they got the #1 spot).
Again, I covered my thoughts on D1 vs D2/D3. More D1 players does not mean better team. I've seen plenty of skilled teams with lower division talent beat teams loaded with D1 talent.
As far as Sopak, he took a public to state. How many publics have made it to a state open? There are plenty of publics with open enrollment, some that bus kids in and all kinds of other situation. He still defied the odds. I am holding judgement on overrated until I see where he takes C-Let. But will say making it to the NorCal Open ship last year is a good start.
As I stated in my other post these coaches can run a program. You may not like some of there styles but being a coach is more than what happens on game day.
Moving on...
Schat
@northbaybbguru , that speaks volumes on what Monica and staff have done. Chemistry, hard work, roles…. Do you see schat and Angelo getting some d2 scholarship looks? Im surprised that hasn’t come yet. Good luck against SRV!
I believe the same goes for SRV, zero offers. Two well coached team which execute.
The other semifinal with Salesian vs Clet is the opposite where both teams have multiple girls with offers.
Both games should make for great match-ups.
You ask, "How many D1 players does Sue have on an average year?" I think a better question would be, how many players has Sue and her staff coached to become D1 players? Yes, Haley Jones, Kelly Hayes and Danielle Robinson were going to be D1 where ever they went. But players such as Hiraki, Scharfpf, Holland, M. Hernandez, Borland, Simon, Todd, Garza, Hill, Garner, Watson, etc. ; none of these players came into Mitty surefire D1 prospects. Many played frosh and JV, played sub minutes as Juniors and contributed as Seniors.
Some judge quality of coaching only by wins and losses. I prefer to look at player, program and culture development in addition to program success.
Let me start off by saying how much i respect Sue and the Mitty program. The results speak for themselves and GOOD PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY AT GOOD PROGRAMS. THOSE PROGRAMS "RECRUIT" THEMSELVES and it's one of the reasons their stud Frosh (whos from San Bruno) will drive to Mitty everyday to play ball there.
But lets not mistake the fact that Mitty gets a glutton of riches in their program. The reason all those kids mentioned played frosh/jv is because the Varsity was so loaded with talent. Every one of the kids you mentioned as JV/FROSH players would start or be in the rotation of EVERY other good program's VARSITY in Northern Calif as a freshmen.
Sorry, disagree. Some, maybe. Many that I know personally were not even close to starting on a good varsity anywhere, let alone at Mitty. Yes, even if they could have played on other team's varsities, doesn't make them even close to being a D1 prospect.
Funny now I agree most are above average
kids not D1 … now they are above average height but when you have 3 D1 prospects and add to that 6-7 above average kids many that are 5-10 to 6 ft … that is just hard to compete against
kids not D1 … now they are above average height but when you have 3 D1 prospects and add to that 6-7 above average kids many that are 5-10 to 6 ft … that is just hard to compete against
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it really isnt hard to play D1 basketball for girls. you can average less that 10 points and get a scholarship
You mean a player can average less than 10 points a game at a Mitty, Sierra Canyon or a Etiwanda… not a small school not even ranked…
I disagree here. It’s not as easy as some think it is for the girls.
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