Rethinking the CIF-SJS (South)

[BigMann08]

The staff of the CIF's Sac-Joaquin Section (SJS) takes pride in governing the second-largest section in California. The SJS comprises 26 leagues and 200 schools and reaches 225,000 students annually. The section also covers more than 14,500 square miles of California, consisting of Solano, Yolo, Sacramento, Placer, Sutter, Amador, El Dorado, San Joaquin, Stanislaus, and Merced counties.

This single section governs a population exceeding four million residents, and experts crown the Central Valley as the fastest-growing region in the state.

Given its population growth and large landmass, has the SJS's geographic jurisdiction grown too large for one section to manage?

Take the Southern side of the SJS section:

Does it still make sense for Merced High to make the 5-hour round trip drive to Granite Bay for an HS playoff game? Or vice versa?

Given its present and future growth, do the San Joaquin, Stanislaus, and Merced regions now have enough schools to support a prosperous/competitive section? (I'm confident that they have the facilities) (Probably have always had enough schools)

Should this region of more than 1.5 million people establish its own section and crown its own section winners?

 

[larry legend33]

The staff of the CIF's Sac-Joaquin Section (SJS) takes pride in governing the second-largest section in California. The SJS comprises 26 leagues and 200 schools and reaches 225,000 students annually. The section also covers more than 14,500 square miles of California, consisting of Solano, Yolo, Sacramento, Placer, Sutter, Amador, El Dorado, San Joaquin, Stanislaus, and Merced counties.

This single section governs a population exceeding four million residents, and experts crown the Central Valley as the fastest-growing region in the state.

Given its population growth and large landmass, has the SJS's geographic jurisdiction grown too large for one section to manage?

Take the Southern side of the SJS section:

Does it still make sense for Merced High to make the 5-hour round trip drive to Granite Bay for an HS playoff game? Or vice versa?

Given its present and future growth, do the San Joaquin, Stanislaus, and Merced regions now have enough schools to support a prosperous/competitive section? (I'm confident that they have the facilities) (Probably have always had enough schools)

Should this region of more than 1.5 million people establish its own section and crown its own section winners?

Doesn’t make sense for them to make a 5hr drive when it’s 2:15 to Merced from granite bay! 5 hours. Hahha..😀

 

[BoutDatAction]

It said 5 hours round trip. There.. and back. I like the idea of splitting North and South but SJS seems real old school and traditional so not sure if that would ever happen.

Doesn’t make sense for them to make a 5hr drive when it’s 2:15 to Merced from granite bay! 5 hours. Hahha..😀

 

[NCS707]

Not even bad! NCS goes from Fremont to Crescent City! 6.5 hours 1 way! NS goes from Winters to Alturas, 5 hours!

 

[pantera-cat]

I’m sure in the Southern Section there are some games that are only 30 miles apart that take 2-3 hours due to traffic!

In all seriousness, we need to do away from sections and have a real state playoff.

 

[SearsPoints]

The CIF needs less sections, or NO sections. In my opinion the Sections are the problem and the CIF State should manage the entire state. Put schools in districts based on sports, enrollment & competitiveness.

 

[larry legend33]

Not even bad! NCS goes from Fremont to Crescent City! 6.5 hours 1 way! NS goes from Winters to Alturas, 5 hours!

Yup, on a horrible road with fog. Been there and done that.

 

[MTsince2004]

Size (population) is part of the power and influence of sections. A section could end up so small as to be insignificant. I can't see why the Sac Area of the SJS would want to get rid of the political weight that the southern portion of the section adds and vice-versa.

 

[BigMann08]

Doesn’t make sense for them to make a 5hr drive when it’s 2:15 to Merced from granite bay! 5 hours. Hahha..😀

Take the Southern side of the SJS section:

Does it still make sense for Merced High to make the 5-hour round trip drive to Granite Bay for an HS playoff game? Or vice versa?

lol

 

[BigMann08]

Not even bad! NCS goes from Fremont to Crescent City! 6.5 hours 1 way! NS goes from Winters to Alturas, 5 hours!

Sheesh! Thats insane. Although Crescent City is very isolated. I guess the point is, there are a ton of schools in the San Joaquin side of the section. Given the growth of the Central Valley area, there is no need to travel long distances when there are plenty schools within the region.

 

[MTsince2004]

Sheesh! Thats insane. Although Crescent City is very isolated. I guess the point is, there are a ton of schools in the San Joaquin side of the section. Given the growth of the Central Valley area, there is no need to travel long distances when there are plenty schools within the region.

There are four sections that have as large or much larger geographical areas than the SJS. Check out the map. The SJS looks rather compact in comparison to the Southern or North Coast sections:

CIF State Track and Field Championships

www.bvtrack.com

CIF State Sections - CIF Southern Section

National Federation of State High School Associations Dr. Karissa Niehoff, Executive DirectorP.O. Box 690 Indianapolis, Indiana 46206Telephone:

cifss.org

 

[ararar]

Sections are killing a real playoff system.We need less section involvement not more

 

[larry legend33]

What we need is less marginal teams making the playoffs. The first and sometimes 2nd round games are a complete joke.

 

[BigMann08]

Size (population) is part of the power and influence of sections. A section could end up so small as to be insignificant. I can't see why the Sac Area of the SJS would want to get rid of the political weight that the southern portion of the section adds and vice-versa.

I see your point of view. But if I'm the Southern section, I would want complete control and autonomy over what goes on in my region. I wouldn't want to be governed and controlled by the current SJS staff, which has heavy Placer County leanings. (The commissioners are from the Rocklin USD)

I would much rather have a staff or board that presides and understands the growing needs of my region and area. I wouldn't want to play championship games in Sacramento when I have excellent facilities in the San Joaquin region. Given the dictates of this current section staff, I would much rather have complete control of my own area.

I'd want my championships played between the Stockton and Modesto area. I would play my basketball championships at the Stockton arena/UOP and football championships at UOP or Modesto JC... I'd much rather have political weight over my own section than state power. Especially since programs like St. Mary's, Central Catholic, Modesto Christian, Manteca, and Ripon Christain have established the region on a state and, in some instances, national level.

 

[bella123]

The CIF needs less sections, or NO sections. In my opinion the Sections are the problem and the CIF State should manage the entire state. Put schools in districts based on sports, enrollment & competitiveness.

Been saying this for years. Blow them up.

 

[BigMann08]

What we need is less marginal teams making the playoffs. The first and sometimes 2nd round games are a complete joke.

If I were in the San Joaquin area, I would want a sectional playoff comprised of local teams, even if outsiders considered some of our playoff teams marginal or a joke. The whole idea would be about promoting San Joaquin Valley sports.

 

[BigMann08]

Been saying this for years. Blow them up.

If you blow the sections up, be prepared to see the state run like the Southern Section! Not that I would mind, but it would become Big City football/basketball all over the state.

 

[MTsince2004]

I see your point of view. But if I'm the Southern section, I would want complete control and autonomy over what goes on in my region. I wouldn't want to be governed and controlled by the current SJS staff, which has heavy Placer County leanings. (The commissioners are from the Rocklin USD)

I would much rather have a staff or board that presides and understands the growing needs of my region and area. I wouldn't want to play championship games in Sacramento when I have excellent facilities in the San Joaquin region. Given the dictates of this current section staff, I would much rather have complete control of my own area.

I'd want my championships played between the Stockton and Modesto area. I would play my basketball championships at the Stockton arena/UOP and football championships at UOP or Modesto JC... I'd much rather have political weight over my own section than state power. Especially since programs like St. Mary's, Central Catholic, Modesto Christian, Manteca, and Ripon Christain have established the region on a state and, in some instances, national level.

I can see your point, but it would be perceived as that part of the section running from Sac area competition. Whether that is true or not, that would be the perception.

I grew up playing in then later coached in the old Monticello Empire League. The Napa-area teams will tell you they left the SJS because of traffic/travel issues.

However, in private conversations, the move was motivated by shifting demographics that were going to keep those teams from consistently competing with the Sac-area schools in football and basketball.

When they left for the NCS, most people saw it for what it actually was.

 

[bella123]

If you blow the sections up, be prepared to see the state run like the Southern Section! Not that I would mind, but it would become Big City football/basketball all over the state.

Then maybe it could be run like the UIL in Texas. While although not perfect with D1 and DII still manages more football playing school and is still able to put on a statewide playoff in land wise bigger state that is head and shoulders above the terrible SBG format everyone hates.

 

[BigMann08]

I can see your point, but it would be perceived as that part of the section running from Sac area competition. Whether that is true or not, that would be the perception.

I grew up playing in then later coached in the old Monticello Empire League. The Napa-area teams will tell you they left the SJS because of traffic/travel issues.

However, in private conversations, the move was motivated by shifting demographics that were going to keep those teams from consistently competing with the Sac-area schools in football and basketball.

When they left for the NCS, most people saw it for what it actually was.

The accusations of ducking could come up. But the anecdotal evidence will suggest that several teams: SM, MC, CC, Manteca, and others, have had much success against the Sacramento schools. They are also not afraid to compete against other regions such as CCS, NCS, SS, etc.

 

[BigMann08]

Then maybe it could be run like the UIL in Texas. While although not perfect with D1 and DII still manages more football playing school and is still able to put on a statewide playoff in land wise bigger state that is head and shoulders above the terrible SBG format everyone hates.

A statewide playoff would be great. I'm not opposed. But is everyone ready to conform to the Southern California transfer rules? And Although CA is a football state, fans will not travel well to support their teams. Only a few schools in the entire state travel well.

 

[bella123]

A statewide playoff would be great. I'm not opposed. But is everyone ready to conform to the Southern California transfer rules? And Although CA is a football state, fans will not travel well to support their teams. Only a few schools in the entire state travel well.

Personally zero problem with the transfer rules myself. I’m just for whatever a family feels is “their” best option who the hell am I to say to say how they regulate their lives and their individual situations. It’s no worse than some of the decisions of other sections regarding transfers, which to put it best have been “inconsistent” over the years. So yeah one governing body would not be bad imo. At least it’s one entity you could blame or champion for consistency sake.

The travel aspect I do agree with you on. But that’s a true reality for almost any state. It’s prep sports, so yeah it’s not like CFB or the NFL where you have a much bigger audience. There’s a reason why the NFL is the GOAT sports product. That will never change, so it’s much easier to accept that and not necessarily use that in the equation and comparisons.

 

[mistark]

Just go back to a North and South City champ. Allow the loser of the North v South championship game to be eligible for a bowl game.

 

[ararar]

Although CA is a football state, fans will not travel well to support their teams. Only a few schools in the entire state travel well.

You schedule a state playoff so the first round is in your area then District then section of state then regional when ever possible to promote attendance.When the semifinals and finals come around then outside interested parties will show up just like the 16K that showed up for SJB vs MD section championship

 

[remc]

I can see your point, but it would be perceived as that part of the section running from Sac area competition. Whether that is true or not, that would be the perception.

I grew up playing in then later coached in the old Monticello Empire League. The Napa-area teams will tell you they left the SJS because of traffic/travel issues.

However, in private conversations, the move was motivated by shifting demographics that were going to keep those teams from consistently competing with the Sac-area schools in football and basketball.

When they left for the NCS, most people saw it for what it actually was.

Monticello Empire League used to be TOUGH. Napa and Vintage. Hogan and Vallejo, Vacaville and Fairfield. All big schools at the time playing high level football. Talent all over

 

[SqMike]

Yup, on a horrible road with fog. Been there and done that.

I always wonder why the most northern schools of the NCS just play in the Northern Section.

 

[MTsince2004]

Monticello Empire League used to be TOUGH. Napa and Vintage. Hogan and Vallejo, Vacaville and Fairfield. All big schools at the time playing high level football. Talent all overrated

Yeah, the olden days. Vacaville is still consistently solid. The others are only sporadically so, if at all. Hogan doesn't even exist anymore.

The big exodus from the Bay Area to Sacramento that started decades ago, and is still going on, has shifted where people raise their families. Amongst those cities, Napa in particular got prohibitively expensive.

 

[remc]

Yeah, the olden days. Vacaville is still consistently solid. The others are only sporadically so, if at all. Hogan doesn't even exist anymore.

The big exodus from the Bay Area to Sacramento that started decades ago, and is still going on, has shifted where people raise their families. Amongst those cities, Napa in particular got prohibitively expensive.

Plus Mare Island closing

 

[MTsince2004]

Plus Mare Island closing

Oh, for sure. A lot of those families lived in American Canyon right across the Napa County line. Those Vintage teams of the 70's and 80's had a lot of kids who more or less lived in North Vallejo and bused up to Napa for middle school and high school.

 

[observer22]

I always wonder why the most northern schools of the NCS (don’t) just play in the Northern Section.

That would seem to be a good idea. However there is a mountain range and forest land in between, and it’s actually easier for them to travel north and south up there than east and west. I've driven from Chico to Arcata & back on 299 through Weaverville before and it's an adventure.

 

[remc]

Oh, for sure. A lot of those families lived in American Canyon right across the Napa County line. Those Vintage teams of the 70's and 80's had a lot of kids who more or less lived in North Vallejo and bused up to Napa for middle school and high school.

Vintage was really tough in those days

 

[NCS707]

Monticello Empire League used to be TOUGH. Napa and Vintage. Hogan and Vallejo, Vacaville and Fairfield. All big schools at the time playing high level football. Talent all over

Exactly. Napa is a mirror of Sonoma County and Southern Solano is like northern Contra Costa. Families moving toward Sac/209, mainly children of immigrants from Mexico in Napa or Asia in Southern Solano. Many of the kids like watching sports but don’t play as much due to less family income, and also poor school athletic support. Frosh football is rare in the North Bay and even most of the east bay now for instance.

What I love about 209 (and Sac/valley in general) schools is they value high school athletics A LOT more. Fans showing up at games, fundraisers, admin support, ect. It matters! I see this in the 209 regardless of school demographics or school enrollment. Even if it is 90%+ first generation kids like Mendota, they value sports and football.

 

[remc]

Exactly. Napa is a mirror of Sonoma County and Southern Solano is like northern Contra Costa. Families moving toward Sac/209, mainly children of immigrants from Mexico in Napa or Asia in Southern Solano. Many of the kids like watching sports but don’t play as much due to less family income, and also poor school athletic support. Frosh football is rare in the North Bay and even most of the east bay now for instance.

What I love about 209 (and Sac/valley in general) schools is they value high school athletics A LOT more. Fans showing up at games, fundraisers, admin support, ect. It matters! I see this in the 209 regardless of school demographics or school enrollment. Even if it is 90%+ first generation kids like Mendota, they value sports and football.

Very true. I noticed it in particular with the smaller schools. In NCS, for example, the smaller schools are more inner city and get little to no sin some cases. In SJS, the smaller schools are usually from a particular town, and the whole town and vicinity support the school and kids. Much better atmosphere for local high school sports

 

[Macallan]

One thing I will never understand is why SF and Oakland have their own sections...Made up of one league each.

CA is a large state, and one might be able to argue successfully that sections are good. However, IMO, ten sections is entirely too much. Especially with such disparity between the make up of the sections...large geographic area, small geographic area, large number of leagues/schools, small number of leagues/schools...there is no logic to it as a whole. But with the same Section CIF executives in charge of change, and making a decent salary for themselves while doing so, the likelihood of change to sections is as about as likely as congress passing term limits on themselves.

 

[BigMann08]

One thing I will never understand is why SF and Oakland have their own sections...Made up of one league each.

CA is a large state, and one might be able to argue successfully that sections are good. However, IMO, ten sections is entirely too much. Especially with such disparity between the make up of the sections...large geographic area, small geographic area, large number of leagues/schools, small number of leagues/schools...there is no logic to it as a whole. But with the same Section CIF executives in charge of change, and making a decent salary for themselves while doing so, the likelihood of change to sections is as about as likely as congress passing term limits on themselves.

I'm glad that SF and Oakland have their own sections. I'm starting to think that Sacramento should have it's own too. The leadership of the SJS doesn't represent the spirit of the Sacramento youth Sports community. Especially given the leadership being displayed by commissioners from the Rocklin USD.

 

[Cal 14]

Sheesh! Thats insane. Although Crescent City is very isolated. I guess the point is, there are a ton of schools in the San Joaquin side of the section. Given the growth of the Central Valley area, there is no need to travel long distances when there are plenty schools within the region.

That's a whole other thing... those far northern NCS schools should probably just join the NS. The competition would be more compatible and closer.

 

[observer22]

That's a whole other thing... those far northern NCS schools should probably just join the NS. The competition would be more compatible and closer.

There’s a mountain range and forest that separates them. They were put into different sections for a reason. Not an easy commute from Arcata to Redding.

 

[Cal 14]

There’s a mountain range and forest that separates them. They were put into different sections for a reason. Not an easy commute from Arcata to Redding.

They don't need to commute for anything but the playoffs. This setup is somewhat similar to the SLO area teams that eventually got tired of driving down to LA for the playoffs, so they joined the closer Central Section.

Arcata to Redding is just under 3 hours. Arcata to Moraga is over 5. Arcata to Santa Rosa is about 4.

Out of the 8 Humboldt-Del Norte teams, there were 8 non-league games against NS teams last year already.

 

[observer22]

And Arcata to Chico is over 4 hours each way, when chains aren’t required. And if you move the northernmost teams, that leaves less teams for the other schools north of Santa Rosa to play. There is no simple solution that makes them less remote.

 

[RidgeRider]

If you blow the sections up, be prepared to see the state run like the Southern Section! Not that I would mind, but it would become Big City football/basketball all over the state.

If we blow them up who advocates for the schools on the Northern part of NorCal, someone in So Cal? No thanks.