Talent vs. attitude

[ClayK]

I don't think many here have heard of Emily Engstler, who was just released by the Indiana Fever after a decent rookie season. More may know of Chennedy Carter, a tremendously talented player chosen No. 4 overall in the WNBA draft, but now without a team.

Both were known as problems during their high school careers. Other players didn't like playing with them, despite their ability to win games, and coaches endured them. Both continued to have issues with others in college, and both wound up getting surprisingly cut, despite being in the 99.9th percentile of basketball players.

Two lessons here, at least:

1) If you don't get along with teammates, play tennis Team sports demand a cohesive group of individuals who can find a way to get along.

2) Talent is not enough. If you want to play basketball, you have to find a way to get along with people. It's not up to them to get along with you, no matter how good you are. If you have continuing issues with teammates and coaches, look in the mirror (no matter what your parents say).

 

[becoolpt55]

Try Boxing, Muay Thai or BJJ….something about getting your face smashed… or your arm put into reverse hyperextension tunes anybody up

 

[bunnyhopninja]

Same with the NBA though?

 

[ClayK]

One big difference is the number of teams. Guys get more chances, but still, some very talented players have left the league earlier than you'd expect. Gilbert Arenas jumps to mind ...

 

[ankleassassin]

if that were the case in the nba... draymunnnnn wouldnt be in the league still

 

[thatch62]

First off you have no information about Emily not getting along with teammates. Emily plays hard and parties hard and that’s the issue. She hurt her back playing in France and is out of shape. That’s why she got released. Nothing to do with getting along with teammates

 

[WivitBear]

if that were the case in the nba... draymunnnnn wouldnt be in the league still

His team mates like him fine. The opposition, referees and the league can't stand him.

 

[ankleassassin]

His team mates like him fine. The opposition, referees and the league can't stand him.

almost certain jordan poole doesnt like him.

 

[OnBall8]

almost certain jordan poole doesnt like him.

sounds like harrison barnes didnt either...

 

[Streak One]

if that were the case in the nba... draymunnnnn wouldnt be in the league still

With Draymond, the quote winning is a great deodorant applies. My guess is whenever he leaves Golden State, he will start bouncing around more

 

[ankleassassin]

sounds like harrison barnes didnt either...

or kevin durant.

 

[510sportsfan]

if that were the case in the nba... draymunnnnn wouldnt be in the league still

Draymond gets along with who he needs to get along with. And Curry loves him so that's what makes it work

 

[ClayK]

If Draymond's your teammate, you may not like him, but you're glad to have him. With some players, they're so obnoxious it doesn't matter how good they are.

Don't be that player.

 

[ankleassassin]

he punched his teammate in the jaw. he is HIM. it is just tolerated in the nba

 

[510sportsfan]

I agree that we tolerate this stuff with men more than women no doubt. But also I think in any sport, any gender, once you've won (and in Draymond's case won 4 times) you earn tolerance. No way Draymond gets away with that in 2015 before they win the title. But if you're filling up most of your hand with rings that buys you a lot of leeway. I just don't know that there is an example of that type of success and misbehavior at the same time in the WNBA

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

I always feel bad for demarcus cousins, cuz he was an elite talent who needed to be handled, and was put in the worst situation possible.

I always say, if you switched cousins and draymond, cousins would be the competitive plays all out overlook the techs xfactor guy with rings, and draymond would be the malcontent head case loser can't win with him.

 

[Forderer]

That comparison is ridiculous. Cousins went through how many coaches in Sac? All accounts wonderful guy, well liked but was mentally weak! Basketball is an every play game! Couldn’t handle adversity, mistakes, ref calls,
He would lose his composure

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

That comparison is ridiculous. Cousins went through how many coaches in Sac? All accounts wonderful guy, well liked but was mentally weak! Basketball is an every play game! Couldn’t handle adversity, mistakes, ref calls,
He would lose his composure

Proving my point. If Dray was in sac, new coach every year, incompetence in the front office, losing 60 games every year, surrounded by mediocre, no defense. Wouldn't be long before he acts out.

If Demarcus was surrounded by hall of famers, winning rings, supportive and elite coaching, supportive management... he'd be an all star... and they would defend him every t he got.

 

[WivitBear]

Proving my point. If Dray was in sac, new coach every year, incompetence in the front office, losing 60 games every year, surrounded by mediocre, no defense. Wouldn't be long before he acts out.

If Demarcus was surrounded by hall of famers, winning rings, supportive and elite coaching, supportive management... he'd be an all star... and they would defend him every t he got.

Demarcus played for the warriors but didn't add much.

 

[Forderer]

Proving my point. If Dray was in sac, new coach every year, incompetence in the front office, losing 60 games every year, surrounded by mediocre, no defense. Wouldn't be long before he acts out.

If Demarcus was surrounded by hall of famers, winning rings, supportive and elite coaching, supportive management... he'd be an all star... and they would defend him every t he got.

So his mentally weak attitude was because of all these factors? I’m looking at who his coaches were…You re right! They’re incompetent! Incompetent because they couldn’t get him to play hard! Maybe some day the coaches and player would say how they could have changed their behavior.. He s been a thorn every place he’s played! I hope he s dominating in Puerto Rico!

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Demarcus played for the warriors but didn't add much.

Wow... comparing old cousins to prime cousins. Cmon now

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

So his mentally weak attitude was because of all these factors? I’m looking at who his coaches were…You re right! They’re incompetent! Incompetent because they couldn’t get him to play hard! Maybe some day the coaches and player would say how they could have changed their behavior.. He s been a thorn every place he’s played! I hope he s dominating in Puerto Rico!

So if draymond were in cousins situation, you think it'd be any different?

Cousins wasnt mentally weak. He has an anger management problem. So does dray. Dray is just in a better support situation. .

 

[Forderer]

So if draymond were in cousins situation, you think it'd be any different?

Cousins wasnt mentally weak. He has an anger management problem. So does dray. Dray is just in a better support situation. .

I’m no Dr Phil but someone who has anger management issues in basketball… not mentally tough. can’t get over a call, bad play, coaches criticism? Some players don’t understand the concept of playing every play! Too emotional up and down! Mindset is an undervalued ingredient in comprising a great player!
I kinda see your Draymond logic!
But he and cousins 2 opposites as players! I saw cousins as mailing in effort!
Anyway good discussion!

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

You only think they are opposite because of the results. Draymond has anger issues too. He has support. And winning hides alot. He clocked his own teammate, and couldn't get along with kd. Don't tell me he doesn't have anger issues.

Cousins was the best big guy in the league in his prime. The sliver of time they were winning, then he got mono and missed a month and started losing. Then they fired Malone , the only coach that he liked, and hired Karl, the one guy he specifically said he didn't want.... the Kings were so dysfunctional. Worst place for Cousins to be. And if it were dray, he would be a reclamation project today.

 

[Forderer]

You only think they are opposite because of the results. Draymond has anger issues too. He has support. And winning hides alot. He clocked his own teammate, and couldn't get along with kd. Don't tell me he doesn't have anger issues.

Cousins was the best big guy in the league in his prime. The sliver of time they were winning, then he got mono and missed a month and started losing. Then they fired Malone , the only coach that he liked, and hired Karl, the one guy he specifically said he didn't want.... the Kings were so dysfunctional. Worst place for Cousins to be. And if it were dray, he would be a reclamation project today.

Opposites as players in terms of defensive and offensive!.There’s No question Green has anger issues! I think that Cousins issues caused a severe drop in his effectiveness as a player!
Thank you for the Cousins education. I appreciate your insightful knowledge!

 

[WivitBear]

You only think they are opposite because of the results. Draymond has anger issues too. He has support. And winning hides alot. He clocked his own teammate, and couldn't get along with kd. Don't tell me he doesn't have anger issues.

Cousins was the best big guy in the league in his prime. The sliver of time they were winning, then he got mono and missed a month and started losing. Then they fired Malone , the only coach that he liked, and hired Karl, the one guy he specifically said he didn't want.... the Kings were so dysfunctional. Worst place for Cousins to be. And if it were dray, he would be a reclamation project today.

Cousins had Steve Kerr as a coach and you can't get better than that.

 

[MC415]

Cousins had Steve Kerr as a coach and you can't get better than that.

For less then half a year ?

 

[WivitBear]

For less then half a year ?

Gary Payton II improved a lot in half a year under Kerr.

 

[MC415]

Gary Payton II improved a lot in half a year under Kerr.

Was he coming off a severe injury that took away most of fast twitch athletic ability ? I don’t recall ?

 

[WivitBear]

Was he coming off a severe injury that took away most of fast twitch athletic ability ? I don’t recall ?

He was injured last year and this year.

 

[MC415]

He was injured last year and this year.

That wasn’t my question if you read it ? GP2 played 71 games last year, how do you play 71 games with a severe surgery to his Achilles or knee? How is that physically possible ? I must have forgotten that he tore his Achilles or some other injury that affects his explosiveness in his legs ?

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Cousins had Steve Kerr as a coach and you can't get better than that.

You trying to compare prime cousins to washed up injury riddled looking for a life line cousins is disingenuous.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

And then comparing young up and coming gp2 to on the way down cousins and equate them as the same scenario is laughable.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Opposites as players in terms of defensive and offensive!.There’s No question Green has anger issues! I think that Cousins issues caused a severe drop in his effectiveness as a player!
Thank you for the Cousins education. I appreciate your insightful knowledge!

Yes, it did affect him negatively. My point is IF he had the support, coaching, talent around him that dray does, he'd be a perennial all star.

And if dray had the incompetence around him, his issues would affect him negatively.

Environment matters.