Will SMS's OT win vs Salesian impact their #1 National Ranking?

[bulldogmgc]

Missing 2 starters again with Cayton and Johnson out, SMS needed OT to beat Salesian 82-78. Kat Tudor hit critical FT's to keep SMS on top at the end and Salesian hit a 3-ptr as time ran out, but it wasn't enough. Both teams were tied at 66 at end of regulation with Salesian having the ball with a chance to pull off the upset. SMS definitely escaped this one.

So will this effect their national ranking? Or will the different committees give leniency knowing SMS was without two starters?

 

[RespectBBGame]

Thats the look of next and Kat wont be there either. Get used to close games that can go either way next year. Cayton, Tudor and Johnson will not be there to seal the wins ip any more. I guess people are going to ask why Johnson will be missed. She is the enforcer of the team and what do i mean about that is the toughness of SMS this year.

 

[jaymel911]

Still #1! Respect - you mean they won't be #1 in the country next year? Duh.... They will still smoke BC and it would be a running clock. I typed would because BC will not schedule them next year, well they might schedule the game but they won't play the game.

 

[RespectBBGame]

Jaymel911

Did I strike a nerve again !!!! Not #1 in Norcal either lol lol

 

[jaymel911]

Hopefully it will be Mitty. You put teams down all you want but it will never raise your team up, the best you can hope for is for them to sink to your level. With AM gone and your coach leaving for greener pastures next year that won't happen either. Good luck in the d5 Christian league.

Hire Que back and maybe just maybe you will return to relevance

 

[colhenrylives]

The real question is: How good is Salesian?

 

[Passionatedad]

The real question is: How good is Salesian?

If anything winning last nite would have to impress the people that do rankings considering they played the game without three starters and fourth starter that fouled out in the 4th quarter. Great teams get the job done under adversity and SMS has done that the last two games. Congrats to them. I have a feeling you will see a completely different team as everyone gets healthy.

 

[RespectBBGame]

Jaymel911

Sounds like im still hitting that neeve lol lol lol. K who the coach that rants and raves at young ladies. Yes he is a good trainer but how many young ladies have bad knee from too many hours of training.

Passionatedad

This tell me how much Cayton means to SMS success and I think her will be an All American McDonald player too. Next year SMS will have to find a true leader on rhe court. Smith will be the leader but she is going to need help. So players have to step up to the spot light. Be that one. When Brookside played they lost to Salesian because 3 out 4 minutes in over time played with 4 players which shouldn't have happen according to CIF rules. Without Cayton on the SMS is only beat teams by 10 with her on the floor by 30 big big difference. Like i been saying she is the pace maker on the team.

 

[Paytc]

The real question is: How good is Salesian?

Colhenrylives,



Salesian has a history of being a good team. At least from what I have seen during the Moore sister's era. And as I have always said any (well coached) good team can upset or beat a so call better team. Personally I don't think Salesian would be able to handle St. Mary's at full strength, but games like these make several teams believe they can play with St. Mary's. And any confident team going into a game is dangerous.

I also am the guy who believes "players" make the difference more so than given credit. That is why when coaches put the wrong players and wrong combination of players on the floor they make the players have to work harder and games closer than they should be. One or two players missing can make a big difference. That is also why game planning and adjustments are more critical than just running the system and so call playing your style of play. Sure you can do almost whatever you want to in easy games. But you have to put some thought and game planning into tougher games. In tough games you must make adjustments. And you must manage the "game" during tougher games. Players matter. You take Sabrina and Howard off of Miramonte and you can bet they are not the same team.

All players are not the same. Some are more talented. Some have more courage and confidence. Some will kill you in practice and easy games, but disappear in tougher games. Some are point scorers, some are primarily rebounders or defenders. Some can only play on one side of the ball, others both sides. Some wait on the coaches approval while others just go for it. Some can do more if asked, or encouraged to do more. Some young players especially need a little more coaching than others. Better coaches recognize more.

Coaches on both sides need to recognize these things to make the game easier for their teams.




Third string players should never be your starters no matter how easy you think a game will be. You can't play nice guy/coach. You have a starting lineup for a purpose. That purpose is to get off to a good start. It doesn't matter if you like some players (butt kissers) or like some parents (palm greasers) do what is in the best interest of the "team". Cheating is cheating, have some integrity.

I think St. Mary's looking human is opening up for an interesting Open tournament. I also hope it encourages teams that are afraid of teams like St. Marys of Stockton and Miramonte to stop beating themselves before the game tips off. Both the coach and the players must take the bold approach.
It's only basketball not an astroid coming toward earth. Why should anyone be afraid of a team or a game? What's the worse thing that can happen........ you lose? So what, get over that fear. And it might not even happen.

If the coach is more afraid than the players (which happens too often IMO) players have to go out and make the coach look good.

Now to answer the original question...... No I don't think SMS should lose their #1 ranking for playing in tough fought games that they find a way to win regardless. Especially when you take into account they are playing without 2 senior starters.

 

[jaymel911]

Good post. I would add each team is made up differently in that losing a player hurts more for some than others. The more versatile the individual players are the more versatile a team can be less dependent on anyone player. The Warriors use Stephen to not only score but he makes the others better, plus he allows Livingston to be a change of pace and flow guy. Contrary to the Spurs who are not the same team without there best player, whomever that is this week.

 

[ClayK]

The scoreboard doesn't lie -- St. Mary's won, and that's the main thing. I would find it very hard to justify dropping a team out of No. 1 after a win, and as far as that goes, dropping any team after a win.

Margin of victory doesn't mean that much to me, overall, though I guess it could be a tiebreaker if absolutely everything else was equal.

 

[RespectBBGame]

Clay

I think its just a preview of next because the only difference was Tudor clutch play that help them to over time. But next Tudor wont be there either Clayton, or Johnson. Who will step up beside Smith and DeCasta. I was talking about next year not this one. They deserve #1 this year with them great SR.

 

[Passionatedad]

Fun topic. So just for the fun of it I will address SMS next year. But first I want to remind you that other teams lose seniors as well. I believe SMS will be very very good after this year.
Smith
Murray
Ari Johnson
Razi Potter
De costa
Neenah Young and one of the best 8thgraders in the country, 6'1
I would put that line-up against anyone.

 

[RespectBBGame]

Passionatedad

That the old TRACY STORM team except Smith, DeCasta and Murraty. That give no worries because not say they are not good but not like this year seniors. Can the stand the pressure of being the Stars. Some can and some cant. The pressure was on last night and how many foul out. Pressure will fo that to players.

 

[mkbgdns]

just watched the game on NFHS network. SMS looked to be pulling away after almost 3 quarters of back-and-forth, opening an 11 point lead early in the 4th, still 8 up at the 4:00 mark. Salesian fought back, and missed a point-blank shot off an inbounds under the basket in the final seconds. clearly not uncontested, bad camera angle, shot came out of a crowd. still, perfection was very close to gone…

my main impression was that Decosta is essentially unstoppable. 6-2, plays bigger, dominates the paint at both ends, runs the floor like a greyhound, often out in front in transition. Moore of Salesian carried her team, but didn't have the supporting cast. in a way, SMS press played to Moore's strength in the open court, allowed her to get to the basket through spread-out defenders.

is it next season already? so many things pass by me...

 

[northbaybbguru]

1) ALOT of big time seniors are graduating this year. Ionescu, Cayton, Moore among them. Things will tighten up next year considerably. Whereas this year the cream of the crop are SMS, Miramonte & Mitty....NEXT year will be wide open. That being said, SMS will reload(as always) and still be the early favorite out of the gate....not as clearly defined of a favorite as this year, but still VERY, VERY good.

2) Jaymel911......have you been secretly listening in to my private conversations???? LMAO because I agree with your assertion that after AMAC leaves PICO is off to greener pastures. Rumor has it he's coaching with the Oakland Soldiers new girl's team, does that mean he's looking to come back to the East Bay? It definitely makes one wonder.........

 

[ClayK]

Mitty will be awfully good next year ... SMS may not be the preseason favorite.

 

[colhenrylives]

Mitty is loaded with outstanding underclassmen. They seem to get better with each passing week. They are 10-deep and very well-coached.

 

[jaymel911]

Now we are talking.

 

[RespectBBGame]

Northbay

Pico is going no where anytime soon. Brookside will reload as well since he will be around for a while.

The question is WHO WILL MM HAVE NEXT YEAR WILL KELLY LEAVE TO COACH ANOTHER TEAM on the other side of the Caldecott tunnel.

 

[northbaybbguru]

Northbay

Pico is going no where anytime soon. Brookside will reload as well since he will be around for a while.

The question is WHO WILL MM HAVE NEXT YEAR WILL KELLY LEAVE TO COACH ANOTHER TEAM on the other side of the Caldecott tunnel.

If/when Sopak leaves MM, that will be the end of MM's run. They will still be good for a yr or 2 but after the current girls on the roster graduate, will just be average again. Great run for a public school though.
And yes I've heard the same rumors....And I'm not going to say where I've heard he's going out of respect for the coach who is there now.

 

[northbaybbguru]

Mitty will be awfully good next year ... SMS may not be the preseason favorite.

Clay,

You may be right....but, for me, until someone in norcal beats them I'm not ranking any team ahead of them. SMS last 2 yrs has been too impressive....some team needs to PROVE they are better before I speculate they are.
That's just my take.

 

[RespectBBGame]

Northbay

Yes i think its a done deal too and that team will make and impact next year or the year after. That team has alot young talent. Yes SMS will cone in rank #1 in the being for the year but that doesn't matter it's about the end of the year ranking.

Then let me put thos out because I know it is coming. Brookside will be good next but it depends on how goos they want to be. They stand in there own way most the time. And then it depends on who is coming into Brookside as freshman and transfers for other school. They have had alot college scouts all year even though McDonald was signed. Brookside just haven't played at their best yet.

 

[Willtalk]

. Moore of Salesian carried her team, but didn't have the supporting cast. in a way, SMS press played to Moore's strength in the open court, allowed her to get to the basket through spread-out defenders.
...

Petty much agree with your post. However you seemed to have forgotten Hobsen hit a lot of clutch shots and ended up with at least 19 points. She was hitting corner three's the entire night. . The officiating was poor for both sides. There were more than 16 fouls called in the first quarter alone. Moore was successful in driving though the center and might have been helped by the fact that SMS had a lot of players in foul trouble along with being short handed. Murry fouled out and they ended up playing with 4 sophs and Tudor. SMS for the second game in a row had a high number of unforced turnovers ( uncharacteristic bad passing ). It might not just be the missing players rather they could be worn down from they travel as well. The just seemed slow at times.

As has been often pointed out the better teams under the right circumstances does not always win. This was the second game in a row that circumstances made it possible for good team to beat SMS. Still they did pull out a victory. Those soph's played very well. That is a credit to their depth. Arial Johnson played her second high scoring game in row. She became the primary ball handler once Smith was out. One has to give Salesian a lot of credit. They played well enough to win. Got a great games out of both Moore and Hobson. Teams are going to bring their best against SMS. Salesian played a great game. They are playing far better now than they were earlier.

. N. Murry fouled out in the fourth quarter. No one from Salesian did but they also had mulitple players with 4 fouls on them at the end.

 

[mkbgdns]

If/when Sopak leaves MM, that will be the end of MM's run. They will still be good for a yr or 2 but after the current girls on the roster graduate, will just be average again. Great run for a public school though.
And yes I've heard the same rumors....And I'm not going to say where I've heard he's going out of respect for the coach who is there now.

MM hasn't been average since 2000, the year I started to follow them. 7 straight DFAL titles, 4NCS DIII, a state final appearance, a Norcal final loss to SMS under Coach Hirashima through 2008. A pause of 3 years (do you consider seasons with 19, 22, and 23 wins "average"?) then the current run under Coach Sopak. Actually, they probably haven't been .500 for a long time before that, if ever. Yes, with a lottery jackpot player departing, the current high tide will recede. It always does.

This board has always been about the front runners, the church of Who's # 1. The "average" team loses 1/2 of its games. By "average", I think you mean "not worthy of our (whose?) notice." There are plenty of above-average teams and kids that never get mentioned here. Luckily, they have fans who appreciate them who have chosen not to join our elevated presence on this board. I think that this puzzling shift toward speculation about next season is related to the fact that the Who's # 1ers have run out of things to say for this year. SMS is #1.

Willtalk, you're right, Hobsen deserved mention, and was the other Salesian player who kept them in it. I differ with your saying both sides got "poor" officiating. They were calling it tight, but fair. Both teams used aggressive and physical defense, and both teams attacked the basket on the dribble, which often yields blocking, holding, or charging fouls. It's not a fan's delight, but it wasn't "poor". In fact, the frequent pauses may have helped Salesian handle deeper SMS's up tempo style.

 

[northbaybbguru]

MM hasn't been average since 2000, the year I started to follow them. 7 straight DFAL titles, 4NCS DIII, a state final appearance, two Norcal final losses to BOD and SMS under Coach Hirashima through 2008. A pause of 3 years (do you consider seasons with 19, 22, and 23 wins "average"?) then the current run under Coach Sopak. Actually, they probably haven't been .500 for a long time before that, if ever. Yes, with a lottery jackpot player departing, the current high tide will recede. It always does.

This board has always been about the front runners, the church of Who's # 1. The "average" team loses 1/2 of its games. By "average", I think you mean "not worthy of our (whose?) notice." There are plenty of above-average teams and kids that never get mentioned here. Luckily, they have fans who appreciate them who have chosen not to join our elevated presence on this board. I think that this puzzling shift toward speculation about next season is related to the fact that the Who's # 1ers have run out of things to say for this year. SMS is #1.

Willtalk, you're right, Hobsen deserved mention, and was the other Salesian player who kept them in it. I differ with your saying both sides got "poor" officiating. They were calling it tight, but fair. Both teams used aggressive and physical defense, and both teams attacked the basket on the dribble, which often yields blocking, holding, or charging fouls. It's not a fan's delight, but it wasn't "poor". In fact, the frequent pauses may have helped Salesian handle deeper SMS's up tempo style.

their string of league championships may end with the departures of Ionescu and De los santos....and maybe Sopak...

Campolindo could get them next year.

 

[observer22]

Their current string is 4 DFAL championships. They finished 3rd in 2010-2011 behind both Dougherty and Campo.

 

[jazzpt55]

Mitty has a tremendous feeder system that is used to recruit players
they will be very good every year....If you gave Donovan at ESCP that talent every year
he would win a D2 state title every year or win at least Norcal Open title every year....

Sue is overrated as a coach She is above average...
nothing wrong with that...just doesn't walk on water...like many think

 

[northbaybbguru]

Mitty has a tremendous feeder system that is used to recruit players
they will be very good every year....If you gave Donovan at ESCP that talent every year
he would win a D2 state title every year or win at least Norcal Open title every year....

Sue is overrated as a coach She is above average...
nothing wrong with that...just doesn't walk on water...like many think

You don't just roll out of bed and win D2 and OPEN state titles.
And the US national team doesn't pick coaches because of their gender.

I think maybe the one who is doing the overrating is you.

 

[mkbgdns]

Their current string is 4 DFAL championships. They finished 3rd in 2010-2011 behind both Dougherty and Campo.

The string I referred to was under Coach Hirashima, 2002-08. Thought the post was clear. Coach Sopak did not win the league title his first two years, but has since had unprecedented success, with no small help from one singular player. With or without the coach, the 3 senior starters departing will be a big loss, and I wouldn't expect a league title next year. My point was that, even if "average" meant the program's 10 years before Coach Sopak arrived, that would be very good indeed. If MM would have the misfortune to lose Coach Sopak, the only hope for recovery would be to poach Coach Kallam from Bentley. See? We've really run out of things to talk about that don't involve speculation about next year!

 

[observer22]

The string I referred to was under Coach Hirashima, 2002-08. Thought the post was clear. Coach Sopak did not win the league title his first two years, but has since had unprecedented success, with no small help from one singular player.


I knew what you meant. I was actually thinking the same thing before you posted that. Just clarifying as some may have thought the current streak was 7.

 

[northbaybbguru]

The string I referred to was under Coach Hirashima, 2002-08. Thought the post was clear. Coach Sopak did not win the league title his first two years, but has since had unprecedented success, with no small help from one singular player. With or without the coach, the 3 seniors departing will be a big loss, and I wouldn't expect a league title next year. My point was that, even if "average" meant the program's 10 years before Coach Sopak arrived, that would be very good indeed. If MM would have the misfortune to lose Coach Sopak, the only hope for recovery would be to poach Coach Kallam from Bentley. See? We've really run out of things to talk about that don't involve speculation about next year!

If we cant speculate...half the posts on this board would disappear. Who would beat who, who may coach where? Who should be ranked where?..... etc....

and what fun would that be?

 

[ClayK]

Given my record at Bentley, I don't think anyone will come poaching ... just hoping to get a win this week.

 

[mkbgdns]

wait…how about if MM ups the coach's annual salary from $200 to $250? that'a a 25% increase, and is a big step toward $1 an hour. we can throw in a restraining order against parents who think their bunny isn't getting enough minutes. don't reply, just think about it…if I win the power ball drawing tomorrow, my lawyer will be in touch...

 

[Willtalk]

You don't just roll out of bed and win D2 and OPEN state titles.
And the US national team doesn't pick coaches because of their gender.

I think maybe the one who is doing the overrating is you.

This is not meant as a slam on Sue. I think she is a very good coach, but being picked as a USA team coach has lost it's luster, at least in my eyes, after I witnessed their moronic choice they made for their U16 head coach. Now there is a slightly better than average high school coach that was over rated because of a three year run that was due to a strong class. So Sue being an assistant coach for a USA team means far less than her record and success she accomplished at the high school level in California.

 

[ClayK]

Sue was a two-time head coach, if I'm not mistaken, on the Selection Committee, and won at least one gold medal.

I think her USA Basketball tenure qualifies as highly successful. The bad coaches (Anne Donovan, for example) find ways to lose games, though they usually wind up with gold anyway.