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1-2 vs. Hop

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coach_augie

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Aug 1, 2008
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My daughter went to a College ID camp in Southern California a couple weeks ago. There was interest from this school but they wanted her to come and see how she did against the other recruits in her position.

They start to do shooting drills and my daughter, who is a hop shooter, starts off slow then starts knocking them down consistently. The head coach comes over to her and says "...you need to make sure you 1-2 step into your shot. you'll never be consistent hopping into your shot..." My daughter kinda rolls her eyes but obliges. After a while she reverts back to her hop shooting and the college "trainer" (who allegedly is the shooting coach for Katie Lou Samulson's little sister-who coincidently is a....HOP SHOOTER) tells her virtually the same thing the head coach says..."hop shooting doesn't work."

she moves to the shell, post drills, 1v1 she does great and she's feeling pretty good about herself. After lunch they had a classroom session and the "trainer" tells them there are 3 types of shots: 1-2, hop, and left slide. Cross out the hop because this is a terrible shot, not quick enough, and not consistent. He then tells the kids that he's training a kid who's a hop shooter but since she's being recruited by major D1 schools, he doesn't want to change her success. Isn't that the role of a trainer? To fix something that's broken? This is the absolute WORST example you can tell a group of kids when trying to say something doesn't work...smdh

I'm just curious to see if any of you have had similar experience with High School, college coaches or trainers (personal or at ID camps) liking one thing but not the other and verbalizing it or demanding they do it. Personally, I'm a 1-2 shooter, teach the 1-2 but if a kid I have hops, has great mechanics and it goes in, then who am I to tell them different? If you have a kid that can fill it up, it shouldn't matter if you 1-2 or hop or shoot our your rear end.
 
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there is a time and a place for both. There are definitely situations where a 1-2 is better and pretty much necessary. Kids should be taught both properly, emphasis on properly.. its very easy to travel on the hop when you don't time it right
 
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coach_augie said:
My daughter went to a College ID camp in Southern California a couple weeks ago. There was interest from this school but they wanted her to come and see how she did against the other recruits in her position.

They start to do shooting drills and my daughter, who is a hop shooter, starts off slow then starts knocking them down consistently. The head coach comes over to her and says "...you need to make sure you 1-2 step into your shot. you'll never be consistent hopping into your shot..." My daughter kinda rolls her eyes but obliges. After a while she reverts back to her hop shooting and the college "trainer" (who allegedly is the shooting coach for Katie Lou Samulson's little sister-who coincidently is a....HOP SHOOTER) tells her virtually the same thing the head coach says..."hop shooting doesn't work."

she moves to the shell, post drills, 1v1 she does great and she's feeling pretty good about herself. After lunch they had a classroom session and the "trainer" tells them there are 3 types of shots: 1-2, hop, and left slide. Cross out the hop because this is a terrible shot, not quick enough, and not consistent. He then tells the kids that he's training a kid who's a hop shooter but since she's being recruited by major D1 schools, he doesn't want to change her success. Isn't that the role of a trainer? To fix something that's broken? This is the absolute WORST example you can tell a group of kids when trying to say something doesn't work...smdh

I'm just curious to see if any of you have had similar experience with High School, college coaches or trainers (personal or at ID camps) liking one thing but not the other and verbalizing it or demanding they do it. Personally, I'm a 1-2 shooter, teach the 1-2 but if a kid I have hops, has great mechanics and it goes in, then who am I to tell them different? If you have a kid that can fill it up, it shouldn't matter if you 1-2 or hop or shoot our your rear end.
Click to expand...

It's actually quite comical that a coach would tell them the hop doesn't work when facts show quite the opposite in both the WNBA and the NBA. Many of them incorporate the hop and 1-2, but Steph, KD, Lillard, Ray Allen, Maya Moore, Taurasi, Sue Bird...all are hop shooters. Both older Samuelson sisters hopped. Pinewood, Miramonte, St. Mary's and Clovis West are almost exclusively hop shooters--and those are 4 of the top shooting teams in the state each year for the past 6+ years.

I would be concerned about the validity of this "trainer's" expertise when he states the hop is not quick enough. Whether you believe in the hop, 1-2, or both--there is zero argument that the hop is faster that a 1-2.

I do know we have 7 kids from our program playing D1 this year and 6 of those 7 are all hop shooters and all 6 were excellent HS shooters that transitioned well and performed well at the next level. The only one that doesn't hop came to us her junior year as a permanent pivot player. Ironically, she shoots it well off the hop training she did daily with us, and I would argue she shoots it better off the hop, but she is more comfortable and it's habit for her permanent pivot habits.
 
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coach_augie said:
My daughter went to a College ID camp in Southern California a couple weeks ago. There was interest from this school but they wanted her to come and see how she did against the other recruits in her position.

They start to do shooting drills and my daughter, who is a hop shooter, starts off slow then starts knocking them down consistently. The head coach comes over to her and says "...you need to make sure you 1-2 step into your shot. you'll never be consistent hopping into your shot..." My daughter kinda rolls her eyes but obliges. After a while she reverts back to her hop shooting and the college "trainer" (who allegedly is the shooting coach for Katie Lou Samulson's little sister-who coincidently is a....HOP SHOOTER) tells her virtually the same thing the head coach says..."hop shooting doesn't work."

she moves to the shell, post drills, 1v1 she does great and she's feeling pretty good about herself. After lunch they had a classroom session and the "trainer" tells them there are 3 types of shots: 1-2, hop, and left slide. Cross out the hop because this is a terrible shot, not quick enough, and not consistent. He then tells the kids that he's training a kid who's a hop shooter but since she's being recruited by major D1 schools, he doesn't want to change her success. Isn't that the role of a trainer? To fix something that's broken? This is the absolute WORST example you can tell a group of kids when trying to say something doesn't work...smdh

I'm just curious to see if any of you have had similar experience with High School, college coaches or trainers (personal or at ID camps) liking one thing but not the other and verbalizing it or demanding they do it. Personally, I'm a 1-2 shooter, teach the 1-2 but if a kid I have hops, has great mechanics and it goes in, then who am I to tell them different? If you have a kid that can fill it up, it shouldn't matter if you 1-2 or hop or shoot our your rear end.
Click to expand...

I start younger players with the hop going straight at the basket, and the 1-2 when they need to turn and square up before taking the shot. Using the hop after squaring in the air comes later.

I would never want a player to become an exclusively 1-2 shooter. It's slower. It takes more lateral space (for the pivot) which a player may not have. It commits the player to one pivot foot, reducing options if the shot can't be released due to a defender closing out. There's a higher risk of traveling due to a player pivoting on the wrong foot.

Regarding traveling, I don't see the argument that the hop presents risks in execution. Are we talking about a double hop? Can't say I see that often enough for it to be a major issue. What I do see a lot is, for example, a right hander who lands her right foot first in a stride stop (establishing it as her pivot foot) then pivots on her left foot to get square. Though it's not called consistently, that's a travel for sure.
 
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As a coach and the King of Hop,I started teaching the hop in the 80’s after watching Players such as Ainge, siechting, Hodges, Kerr... Automatic balance, natural rhythm, quicker release. As a player I loved it.
As far as teaching it well... there are musts
1. Don’t step and hop.. just hop and have feet in the air on catch, load ball at the waist,spring quick and have you rfeet flow forward after you shoot. The hop is about 1-2 inches off ground.. It s minimal and efficient. Those clowns that correlate ACL s with hop shooters are just misguided. I mean really landing in balance with both feet at the same time 2 inches off the ground.. Please!
Lot of coaches teach a hop with a stride stop.. totally unrhythmical and ugly!
A step 1-2 can be rhythmical IF... the ball is at waist on the 2 and you spring quickly.. Too many stubborn coaches who aren’t shooters in the first place teach shooting the way THEY were taught and continue to pass on bad habits. I have to fix so many 1-2 shots because they bring up the ball to shooting pocket before the 2.

When I help a player with their shot We attack 4 areas
1- keep arc at a tight 45 degree entry..
2. Jump quickly on shot.. adds power,natural arc,and speeds release
3. Where is ball located when you JUMP to shoot it... at waist height.. that’s where your arms are to effectively jump as a skills
4. Feet land in front after the shot

In 10 minutes they will have a rhythmical smooth motion, and have a ball that they can control!

Many fallacies in shooting
1- more arc better shooter.. nope same arc every time better distance control and develop muscle memory
2. Square shoulders... depends where you release ball... middle of foreheads shooters yes.. slightly to right have you feet angled to 11 o clock or so.. you want your line to be hand shoulder elbow hip
3. Jump straight up straight down- nope too rigid and power leak
4.Cookie jar.. nope it’ll be a moon ball
5. Bend your knees - nope Jump quick.. the spring will add power!
6. High release above forehead.. nope release it quick in one motion!
7. Elbow in- sort of hand behind the ball.. depends where you release ball
Middle of forehead square .. slightly to right elbow will be under hand
8. You can’t change a shot during season! Baloney- you ll help somebody right away with above 4 areas!
8. A key factor is jumping the same way on every shot for consistent distance control
9. That college coach sayin 1-2 is quicker... Time their release on the catch and release.. hopping on catch .5.. 1-2 slightly slower when done correctly!
10. Don’t dip the ball you’ll slow your shot.. Pfft.. You dip it for rhythm and power.. If your jumping too slow your dip or tuck or load WILL be low.. Bottom line Jump quickly and load ball at waist when jumping!
11.” I don’t have any shooters” wah wah.. make em better it s your job!
12. “There’s more than 1 way to shoot” yep and there’s a right way and wrong way .. a good way and a better way!”

I’ve heard coaches call a hop shooter an amateur! Really do you watch basketball? And 2 years later his or her team are hopping on their catch n shoot!
Watch and analyze the best shooters and have a life long learning approach. Get better!
You can develop shooters and make them better..
Sorry about length but knowledge is power!
 
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I shared this experience with Pinewood Coach Doc Scheppler who's been working with her over the spring and summer and he was flabbergasted! He sent me this video to see how smooth and effortless KT shoots the ball. Doc Said.."Klay is recognized as having perfect form! Well here he's hopping...you can't look at that and say...wow that's perfection..."

 
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Every shot looks the same! Same Jump same dip same snap,same flow forward! Effortless power! Poetry in motion. Show this to your players as their template! Watching Perfection can give players that model! See it, internalize it do it!
 
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Great story and question. I have a preference I teach all my players but that’s not what your question was really about. The trainers and camp coaches trying to change the shot of a advanced player based on their preference... I don’t think it’s good or right. If a player is exceptional at shooting off either that is great and not worth changing. I agree that they are times where each is more beneficial. We saw it in the Warriors playoffs this year. Iguodala used a 1-2 into a three to win and game. And we see Steph and Clay take super quick threes off the hop leaning with almost no time or space. Improving on fundamentals is always worth coaching. But I don’t like hearing camp instructors harping on things based upon their own preference.
 
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I begin with the one-two, especially when working with younger players. The "two" step is also a precursor to a shot fake and go.

Next step: Shoot a set or minimal jump shot with no step. (Feet properly placed.)

For the majority of players, this is what they need to be able to be a credible three-point threat in high school. But from this basis, advancing to the hop is not a big step, and at that point, I'd move the player on to Doc or someone who specialized in the hop.

But ... whatever works best for that player at that time in their development. Every body is different and the same mechanics do not work for every athlete. There is no perfect style, no perfect form, no perfect system, and for coaches at a clinic to impose such arbitrary standards is simply wrong. I always tell anyone I work with that whatever their coach tells them is the way they should do it because, really, any way will work to some extent. Some ways, though, obviously work better than others.
 
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this is a good analysis

Coaches Network: Teaching Footwork

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2015/05/coaches-newtwork-footwork.aspx

Sue Phillips, head coach, Archbishop Mitty High School (Calif.)

When it comes to shooting footwork, there are three general schools of thought: permanent pivot foot, inside-pivot foot, or catch off the hop. While most coaches are insistent with their players about sticking to a particular technique, we believe in teaching our players a varied footwork approach. This will not only expand their skill set, but also improve their game-day adaptability and execution.

For example, given a penetrate-and-pitch situation, we teach the “hop-shot” on the catch. We believe it is quicker to get the shot off, and our players can utilize either pivot foot if they need to drive or pass. A teaching point for the “hop-shot” is to catch the ball in the air so as to avoid the travel call. On the other hand, off the bounce, we teach an inside pivot foot or a “one-two stop” for the mid-range jumper. We have found that our players are more explosive, execute the move with greater balance, and get into their shot quicker off the “one-two stop.”

Coming off a screen for a shot however, we encourage our players to determine their preference of either a “hop-shot” or “one-two stop.” Our players vary in their preference of footwork when coming off screens, but we expect them to identify their preference and drill it accordingly. As a side note, we have observed greater efficiency when our players utilize a “one-two stop” when they curl screens, but they are equally effective with a “hop-shot” when fading screens. Regardless of your school of thought, just remember shooting mechanics is poetry of the feet.
 
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I need more for that to be good analysis!
I m going to get a little more specific if I may. My high school history teacher taught us to back up generalizations with specifics. I see lots of generalizations without telling why??
A step one -two mid range shots is NOT quicker!!! it can be perceived as quicker if done with a gather on the 2. It is moreDECEPTIVE not quicker!! Why???because the defender still is in a stay in front mentality on a drive! They don’t know you’re shooting until you shoot!!Greater balance? To jump on a shot on step 1-2?? Takes a lot reps to get balanced on this shot? Why? Because most players drive with their head way front of their feet and they are OUT of Balance when they jump to shoot, and they are less explosives s a result. You can make the mid range just as QUICK as a 1-2 if..... you lower the hop1/2 inch, time the gather with exact landing. As a result of that one sound mini stop, you’re quicker more explosive AND in automatic balance because your heads above your feet. Players are shocked with the ease of this and their counter deception is a hezzy out of the mini hop( a quick split).. I’m saying because this the Why a hop is okay off dribble.
Let me also say that coaches confuse a hop 1-2(stride stop) and a step 1-2.. I see so many players do a hop 1-2 and think it s right.. No it s the worst.. no deception no quickness.. gather before landing.. it s a shot that will work against a cone or a chair but will be swatted by a breathing human being.. please put away the cones and chairs and play 1-1 to master moves usable in comp!

Hop turns on any catch n shoots shots off screens give the shooter the same consistent feel to their catch and shoot after their feet hit.The degree of the hop varies according to where youre receiving screen or a DHO. A 1-2 is slower and HARDER be in balance and they are not definitely not Efficient on those shots.It is soooo much harder to be in balance coming off a pin down and 1-2ing your shot.. Dont get me started on why a shot off a screen is a good shot... It s hard!! When players(at high levels) learn the hop one sound.. they never go back! Ever!!! Efficiency makes it easier

I like to divide shots into categories.. easy/ hard.. You can one sound hop off any screen, anywhere from either side.. I can use Klay as an example where he ll one sound hop when his shooting shoulder is inside and 1-2 when his shooting shoulder is outside.. He could easily one sound hop both ways.. but he s got to turn more degrees because of his alignment.. as a result it s a hair slower and a harder shot.. His %age is much higher in pin downs in right side than left! Fact! Pin downs right of floor vs left!

The players FEEL the difference right away.. and that feel creates comfort!
You rep the hard shots to make the easy shots easier!

Last generalization without whys is “shooting mechanics is poetry of the feet?” Really? Give me specifics, Give me more! Give me reasons! alignment(where there feet face relative to their release)balance, how they jump, where they land, rhythm of release relative to Jump. There has to be a why to everything you teach.
 
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ClayK said:
"And while you're at it, get rid of the two-ball dribbling drill. How often do you dribble two balls in a game?
Click to expand...
So practices should just be two-hour scrimmages every day? And several of the team members should sit and watch the scrimmage? Cause that's actually what happens in a game.
 
Slightly different, I think. You need to develop all of your players, for a variety of reasons.

And that development should include developing basketball skills -- which do not include the ability to dribble with two balls. If you want to improve hand-eye coordination, fine, then do that. But table tennis or pure reaction drills actually make more sense than dribbling two basketballs in that they more directly develop hand-eye coordination. Dribbling two balls helps, of course, but not as much as other activities could, and since it has no relationship to the game on the court, it just seems like a very inefficient way to spend time.
 
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ClayK said:
Slightly different, I think. You need to develop all of your players, for a variety of reasons.

And that development should include developing basketball skills -- which do not include the ability to dribble with two balls. If you want to improve hand-eye coordination, fine, then do that. But table tennis or pure reaction drills actually make more sense than dribbling two basketballs in that they more directly develop hand-eye coordination. Dribbling two balls helps, of course, but not as much as other activities could, and since it has no relationship to the game on the court, it just seems like a very inefficient way to spend time.
Click to expand...
Dribbling two balls forces you to use your off hand. You can't switch to your strong hand because it's already dribbling another ball. I'm not sure why you singled out this drill as worthless, but some pretty decent coaches do this drill at every practice. I understand if a coach feels his players aren't yet at a level where they can be successful at the drill, but to say it's worthless because it doesn't happen in a game is just silly. Most drills do not actually occur in a game. How many teams have you seen run liners during a game?
 
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Everyone has their own opinions and feelings ... I don't like two-ball dribbling, and I don't like to run liners in practice. You can get all the running you need in drills with a basketball if you want. (The longer I coach, the less I do sprint segments in practice, for whatever that's worth.)

Ideally, for me, every drill involves something that translates directly to game play, but of course that's not possible. That's one reason I preferred to run an unstructured offense (organized street ball) because you could practice it by just playing, and you weren't limited to a particular format. Then again, the man defense I liked required more structure than most defenses, so as a politician once said, the clammy hand of consistency never rests for long upon my shoulder.

All coaches do things differently than I do, and differently than other coaches. Many coaches are better, of course, but I'm not going to copy someone's practice plan or drills or philosophy after all these years, no matter how successful they've been. I think you have to be true to yourself to be a leader, and if you're doing things not because you believe in them but because someone else does them, I'm not sure you can be as effective as you could be.
 
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Vision, Decision, Execution
See Decide Execute
2 ball dribbling is a complete waste of time especially if ball is too low, Head and shoulders are down and there’s no body balance! There are some 2-ball wizards that can’t see and make a decision, but they re prepared to perform in a circus.
Functional handle means that you have mechanics of each change of direction dribble and you can perform them while closely guarded and SEEING the floor.
It s more beneficial to utilize valuable practice time to MASTER the specifics of a cross, spin,between legs and around the back in a progressive manner. Having explosive, deceptive dribble moves and being able to change speeds with skips,gallops,back dribbles are much more imperative and should be included in developing a player to be a creative offensive threat.

You can work on your off hand and see the floor playing dribble knockout or dribble tag. Great activity to handle with eyes forward as compared to 2 ball dribble, knee height, head down,out of balance.
Bottom line put away the cones,chairs, 2 ball dribbles! Master foot skills, ball skills, sight skills! Play 1’s, 2’s, 3’s to develop your decision making! That’s how players get better!
 
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Forderer said:
Vision, Decision, Execution
See Decide Execute
2 ball dribbling is a complete waste of time especially if ball is too low, Head and shoulders are down and there’s no body balance! There are some 2-ball wizards that can’t see and make a decision, but they re prepared to perform in a circus.
Click to expand...

Every drill is bad if you do a shitty job.
 
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