CCS Open (as things stand)

[TheHillZ]

Looks like a very private affair

6 Teams from WCAL (Mitty, St. Francis, Riordan, SI, Valley Christian & Sacred Heart Cathedral)
2 Teams from WBAL (Pinewood & Priory)

Los Gatos is gaining on the pack according to Max Preps, having won nine in a row. SHC has lost six straight and seven of eight. If Los Gatos keeps winning and SHC drops a couple more games, the Wildcats may sneak in as the 8-seed. That wouldn't be crazy given that Los Gatos was very competitive in losses to Priory and Riordan. But I'm sure they'd prefer to be in D1.

If it is the eight private schools, there's an interesting question about how to seed/divide them into pools. Right now, Priory is ranked third in the group, just ahead of SF (who it beat) and Riordan. That might change as the season winds down. But if Priory is seeded third, it would have to play Pinewood for the third time. Plus, four WCAL teams in the other pool would all have to face each other for a third time. I guess that's okay, but I suspect most teams would prefer a bit of variety.

As a fan, I'd suggest Mitty (1) Pinewood (2) SF/Riordan (3) Priory (4) Riordan/SF (5) SI (6) Valley (7) and SHC (8). Pool A: Mitty/Priory/SF/SHC Pool B: Pinewood/Riordan/SI/Valley

Again, all subject to change in the final two weeks of league play.

 

[ClayK]

Los Gatos plays at Carondelet Saturday, which could be a big win if they pull it off. A loss, though, could knock them out of the Open.

 

[TheHillZ]

Carondelet easily defeated Los Gatos 85-57. Max Preps still has the Cats in the hunt for the last spot, but it sure looks like it will be the eight private schools.

As for seeding, the latest Max Preps update still has Priory 3. Riordan beat SF last week, so it is now in the 4 spot.

There are a few more regular season games that could change things up.

Riordan could shock Mitty on Tuesday. That would boost them to 3.
SI plays SF and might get the nod over SF for the 5 spot with a win.
Valley Christian hosts SHC. The winner should be 7 and the loser 8.

 

[ClayK]

Los Gatos is a good. Sara Quilici Giles leaned over the scorer's table in the second half and said "This doesn't seem like a 30-point game -- or is it just me?"

And no, it didn't feel that way. Junior Sophia Ross went off for Carondelet with eight threes and 39 points, which skewed that margin, but overall Los Gatos didn't look out of place.

That said, CCS should let the privates be privates and go to war with each other.

 

[kiddman32]

That Riordan-Mitty game is listed as being on NFHS.

Riordan-Mitty

 

[colhenrylives]

Los Gatos is a good. Sara Quilici Giles leaned over the scorer's table in the second half and said "This doesn't seem like a 30-point game -- or is it just me?"

And no, it didn't feel that way. Junior Sophia Ross went off for Carondelet with eight threes and 39 points, which skewed that margin, but overall Los Gatos didn't look out of place.

That said, CCS should let the privates be privates and go to war with each other.

Agree. But the CCS poobahs seem fixated on an eight-team Open bracket. Forcing Los Gatos (or another public) into the Open really hurts them at the NorCal seeding meeting. The Open status is actually bogus but it gives the NorCal seeding committee the impetus to place them in Division I. Not helpful.

 

[northbaybbguru]

Agree. But the CCS poobahs seem fixated on an eight-team Open bracket. Forcing Los Gatos (or another public) into the Open really hurts them at the NorCal seeding meeting. The Open status is actually bogus but it gives the NorCal seeding committee the impetus to place them in Division I. Not helpful.

Will the 8th place team in the CCS Open still go to DI in Norcals?

3-7 CCS ok...thats 5
3- ? NCS ..6 teams Id think right?
and then 5 from SJS....

AND possibly Clovis from the south...

I'm thinking #8 in the CCS may get a D2 norcal bid...

 

[TheHillZ]

Will the 8th place team in the CCS Open still go to DI in Norcals?

3-7 CCS ok...thats 5
3- ? NCS ..6 teams Id think right?
and then 5 from SJS....

AND possibly Clovis from the south...

I'm thinking #8 in the CCS may get a D2 norcal bid...

You left out a few D1 "bid stealers"

Pleasant Valley from the Northern Section
Central from Central
Carruthers from Central
Oakland Tech from Oakland

 

[TheHillZ]

In today's Max Preps rankings for CCS, Los Gatos has slipped into 8th place, ahead of Valley Christian. They each have one more game (against opponents ranked 500+). If Los Gatos gets the Open nod over VC, VC would drop into Division 2 where it would instantly become the favorite over solid public programs like Hillsdale, Christopher and Monta Vista.

 

[letsski]

In today's Max Preps rankings for CCS, Los Gatos has slipped into 8th place, ahead of Valley Christian. They each have one more game (against opponents ranked 500+). If Los Gatos gets the Open nod over VC, VC would drop into Division 2 where it would instantly become the favorite over solid public programs like Hillsdale, Christopher and Monta Vista.

While V.C. may be the favorite if they drop down, Hillsdale, Christopher or Monta Vista would certainly give them a game. With that said, I'd be shocked if Los Gatos wants to go Open, and from what I understand, CCS is pretty open to honoring school's wishes to stay in their own division. See last year's Evergreen Valley and Branham teams.

 

[northbaybbguru]

I am by no means an expert on the CCS open/brackets but it seems to me the CCS Open should be 8 privates every year EXCEPT for maybe that once a decade public school (like MA a few yrs back) who shows they can compete and beat the privates. So maybe once a decade a public goes in?

The CCS publics want nothing to do with the Open..they get annihilated and then get hosed in the state playoff seedings.

The CCS is such an outlier in Nor Cal. The NCS and SJS don't have that private domination problem. Times have changed and it's actually pretty balanced at the top between the public/privates.

 

[TheHillZ]

No doubt there is an imbalance and the divide is generally growing. But it's not quite so bleak.

Just two years ago, there were three public schools in the CCS Open: Palo Alto, Branham and Los Gatos. Palo Alto went 2-1, with convincing wins over Sacred Heart Cathedral (private) and St. Ignatius (private) and a 7-point loss to Pinewood (private). Branham went 1-2, beating Los Gatos (who was winless but without a star player).

Last year, Los Gatos beat Priory (private) in the Open, and hung tough with SHCP (private).

This year, Los Gatos played even with Priory and Riordan (private) though it dropped both. I think it would handle both SHCP and Valley Christian (private).

So exceptional public schools can compete with at least some of the private schools in the Open. The real question is whether anyone can compete with Mitty. We'll see soon.

 

[colhenrylives]

Again, for some relevant perspective:

1. A CCS public has never played for a CCS Open Division title.
2. A CCS public sacrificed in the CCS Open Division gets seeded much too high when NorCals appear.
3. A CCS public is denied a chance for a CCS Division I-III crown if boosted to the Open Division.
4. CCS publics have a total of one CIF championship; CCS private/parochials have 30-plus.
5. A CCS public has not played for a CIF crown since 1988.
6. A fair, reasonable NorCal bracket/seed might provide LG a decent shot at CIF glory.
7. Yes, "the divide is generally growing." Yes, it is indeed "quite so bleak."

 

[TheHillZ]

Only a handful of teams have EVER played for a CCS Open Division title. Mitty and Pinewood have faced each other almost every year. I think SI and SHCP have made cameos. That doesn't speak to privates dominating publics. It's really two great programs dominating the section.

Private schools that get "boosted" into the Open are equally denied the chance for CCS Division crowns. This year, Priory would waltz to the D5 title in CCS. SHCP in D3. St. Francis/Valley in D2. The publics are no worse off on this front.

I don't know how to measure whether publics get seeded much too high in the NorCals. Two years ago, after winning two CCS Open games, Paly a D1 school was sent to D1 (#14). Branham a D1 school got sent to D2 (#14). And Los Gatos, a D1 school, was sent to D2 (#16). Those don't bother me, but your mileage may vary.

Open is about picking the top 8 teams in the Section. Sometimes that includes a public school or two. While the public title drought is unfortunate, I think it's a structural problem unrelated to the existence of an open division or the rare public participation in it.

 

[ClayK]

To bang my drum again, it's all about who's willing to recruit. If the administration Is willing to support athletics, and coaches are willing to do the work, any athletic program can be successful.

For whatever reason, most CCS schools have not been that interested in recruiting for girls' basketball, And so we have this great divide between Mitty, Pinewood and everyone else.

 

[colhenrylives]

With all due respect, Clay, your expertise in these matters is pretty much focused on the East Bay and NCS these days. CCS is unique in the niche world of NorCal female hoops: Not one but two strong private/parochial leagues that suction up the vast majority of big-time talent as a matter of recruiting course. The publics have strict limitations on recruiting typically structured around geography or within a particular district. The list of strong WCAL and WBAL programs is impressive. They affect every public school from SF all the way to Gilroy and Santa Cruz. The arms race between these non-publics is fierce and ongoing. It's not just Mitty and Pinewood. Valley Christian, St. Francis, Priory, Menlo School, SI, SHC, Riordan, Notre Dame-Belmont, Harker, SHP, the list goes on. Every now and then a public program gets lucky and a couple of terrific kids show up as frosh. Burlingame, which has a decent female hoops pedigree (one of only three CCS publics to play for a CIF title and winning one in the process), is a great example. Ava Urich and Elana Weisman, a pair of outstanding forwards, enrolled there within a year of one another. It didn't take long before they wound up at Pinewood and Mitty respectively, destroying the Burlingame roster in the process. The frustration among the CCS publics is palpable.

 

[ClayK]

What's funny is that the rules are much the same in CCS as they are in NCS. Maybe it's that NCS doesn't really enforce it -- though that's really impossible no matter what the section -- or that the CCS public schools just don't care as much. Recruiting on the public side in NCS isn't endemic, but it does happen.

And it's interesting that some privates seem to be stepping back from recruiting. St Joseph Notre Dame, for example, has clearly given up on being an elite program and is now just another member of the BCL. At the same time, schools like San Ramon Valley and Acalnes have been actively pursuing talent outside their borders. and really there's nothing CCS or any other section can do if schools start seriously recruiting middle school players.

And of course, that's what it takes to have a successful program.

 

[letsski]

To bang my drum again, it's all about who's willing to recruit. If the administration Is willing to support athletics, and coaches are willing to do the work, any athletic program can be successful.

For whatever reason, most CCS schools have not been that interested in recruiting for girls' basketball, And so we have this great divide between Mitty, Pinewood and everyone else.

Would love for someone to actually define "recruiting". Are you saying that Woodside Priory, with its 9 transfers out of their current 12 varsity players, actively went out and recruited, i.e. contacted, offered incentives and promises and facilitated the transfer of all these players? Or did Priory put together a strong club program that exposed players to their coaches and culture and offered a small school environment and a highly successful basketball program?

And if this is what you're contending, then please explain how this is any different than what CLet and their Cal Stars program is doing?

 

[runwithm]

Making popcorn and getting a beer,,,,,,,,,,, ready in a couple to watch this show. Feels like a rerun though

 

[ClayK]

Would love for someone to actually define "recruiting". Are you saying that Woodside Priory, with its 9 transfers out of their current 12 varsity players, actively went out and recruited, i.e. contacted, offered incentives and promises and facilitated the transfer of all these players? Or did Priory put together a strong club program that exposed players to their coaches and culture and offered a small school environment and a highly successful basketball program?

And if this is what you're contending, then please explain how this is any different than what CLet and their Cal Stars program is doing?

This puts me in an awkward position because people can use this information in various ways.

I think it's fair to say that many successful programs might reach out to middle school players and encourage them to attend their school. Some schools might reach out to players in high school, and you can speculate that perhaps there was some contact.

It's also fair to say that players are looking for the best situation to showcase their abilities so that they can increase their chances of getting a scholarship to the school they want to go to.

I'm not trying to put anyone in a white hat or a black hat here. I'm just trying to describe the situation as it exists, from my perspective.

Specifically, I have no idea what Priory does or did or will do, nor would I make any claim about Priory -- or any other specific school. I think however, that the results overall speak for themselves. Some schools are consistently very successful, and success comes from talent. Let's leave it at that.