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CTE- fact or fiction

I think the biggest issue with CTE is that almost everybody involved with football (owners and executives of pro teams, coaches, TV executives, athletic departments, most fans, and yes, most players) are happy with the status quo. I mean look at something as simple as eliminating the kickoff. That would be a very small change that would without question reduce head injuries; but literally none of the groups I mentioned wants that change to happen, so it won’t.
 
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SpeedCity51 said:
I think the biggest issue with CTE is that almost everybody involved with football (owners and executives of pro teams, coaches, TV executives, athletic departments, most fans, and yes, most players) are happy with the status quo. I mean look at something as simple as eliminating the kickoff. That would be a very small change that would without question reduce head injuries; but literally none of the groups I mentioned wants that change to happen, so it won’t.
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I completely agree, this sport is a brutal one and it’s already changing in the NFL and people hate it. The big hits on ball carriers and QBs are almost always flagged even if there’s no helmet to helmet.
 
Got to live your life man, this all much ado about nothing. People make choices and if that choice is football they should know the risks, same with soccer, baseball,skateboarding, you name it.
 
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A question: Would football in its current form be allowed by U.S. high schools and colleges today if we were starting from scratch? Or would the sport be deemed too inherently dangerous to be played in any organized, sanctioned fashion? I have to wonder.
 
colhenrylives said:
A question: Would football in its current form be allowed by U.S. high schools and colleges today if we were starting from scratch? Or would the sport be deemed too inherently dangerous to be played in any organized, sanctioned fashion? I have to wonder.
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Interesting question. I think if Hockey were more popular in a non-football world they would probably be dealing with the CTE controversy. And in that scenario I could see football not being sanctioned as people would probably think “Hockey is bad enough, how can this be allowed?”
 
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i played football from Pop Warner through JC in the South. I can’t tell you how many times our coaches made us play bull in the ring in the dark. To learn to keep our heads up I remember a drill where we used wrap up a big Oak Tree. After hitting it head on a few times we learned quick. I’m in my 60’s now and seem to be like most my age. The literature I’ve read would suggest maybe 10% of long term players develop this terrible brain issue. Danger is amongst us anywhere. Out of the 30 guys I still talk to only 2 have some brain related issues(memory, seizures, tube fed) but I believe even the non football guys have these same friends. With all the new rules and banning of ridiculous pop warner drills these numbers will drop and hopefully I will be able to wipe my hind side for years to come.
 
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colhenrylives said:
A question: Would football in its current form be allowed by U.S. high schools and colleges today if we were starting from scratch? Or would the sport be deemed too inherently dangerous to be played in any organized, sanctioned fashion? I have to wonder.
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Who knows, but kids can’t live in a bubble though. Now they can’t even play smear the queer, 3 flies up or dodgeball anymore at recess? I’m all for safety, but that seems over the top.
 
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Ha! THertz, ubered Speedfitty1, drove to Safeway a month ago, no seatbelt and his Takata airbag set on the 2 mph twitch and said, “Gimme all that Romaine lettuce y’al are tossing. I ain’t scared no little bug eColi...man up!”

All kidding aside, the evidence is increasing, as more data is collected from non-pros, I.e. HS/college players that it REMAINS the position of experts the youth brain is at the greatest risk.

It seems reasonable that HS coaches would like to see youth tackle programs feed into theirs. Less initial teaching time gives them greater “success”, let’s say, at the frosh level.
If readers have not experienced several non-youth players excel at top levels it exists, even in families where it’s a secondary sport.

FYI- youth hockey in Canada bans checking for up to age 15, and moving toward including all high school age players.
 
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SpeedCity51 said:
Nobody in this thread mentioned anything about limiting choice, so this comment is completely irrelevant.
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I guess you should read posts you decide to quote then huh? My original post was about choices and sports. Sports naturally come with risks. It’s a choice if a individual decides to take that risk, and I named a few sports as examples. In those terms this CTE situation is much ado about nothing in all reality. Yes it’s a serious risk athletes take but not the only risk in sports or frankly life. Some of the rule changes are frankly ridiculous and add more danger to a already risky situation.

I guess in short if you are going to quote somebody and say exhibit “A” of what you’re talking about. You should know what exhibit “A” was. It was about choice.
 
Agreed. The truth is not fact, yet. So the thread title will be changed. But interestingly, Dr. Samadani’s HS FB son is...a K.

If you’ve never had a concussion with loss of consciousness, then it’d be easy to say it’s “much ado about nothing.” Some of us would disagree. But I’m probably more content than others since mine didn’t play as youths.

Even the science has work to do:
 
Sunday's Page One story in the Mercury News/East Bay Times regarding the life and death of former St. Francis star RB Rod Stensrud is an eye-opener and a sad cautionary tale, not unlike some of the other brain-damage pieces produced in the last decade or so. He passed away in 2011 due to complications from early onset Alzheimer's. He played football for the Lancers in the late 1960s at the time of the creation of the WCAL. His outstanding 1968 SF team played Serra (with Tom Scott, Lynn Swann and Jesse Freitas) for the championship. SI (with Dan Fouts) was right behind those two. Stensrud played with a number of outstanding SF players, including Bob Klatt and Jim Winters. After graduation, Stensrud played for UCLA and Long Beach State. When he passed away in a nursing home, he was just 60-years-old. His family has filed a lawsuit alleging that college football caused his multiple concussions and eventual neurological condition.
 
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That article was the initial post on this thread. Sad way to go and way too young, whether the cause was sports related or not.
 
1315 said:
much ado about nothing.”
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In reality it is. People hyperventilating over injury in sports and demanding changes is comical. It’s like people didn’t understand playing sports came with risk. Millions of people play football, box, hockey, etc, every year for decade after decade. Fact is the statistics show you have better odds of simply just having fun than you are sustaining long term brain injury. In fact probably much greater odds developing arthritis In knees, back, etc, than sustain debilitating brain injury.
 
Measuring fun? I’d like to read that study.

Hertz do tell: just HOW are those cerebrum replacements going these days?
 
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1315 said:
Measuring fun? I’d like to read that study.

Hertz do tell: just HOW are those cerebrum replacements going these days?
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No need for study to measure the fun. If it wasn’t fun people wouldn’t participate. Pretty simple concept. It’s like wiping your arse with sandpaper. It may actually be a better way to wipe ones arse, but it certainly isn’t fun so people don’t do it. No study needed here.

And there is no such thing as cerebrum replacement. But not really sure what that has to do with a individuals choice to take part in a activity that may cause a head injury.
 
There's another aspect to all of this: It's not just the individual athlete who is affected by his fateful decision to become a boxer, hockey player, football player, etc.; it's also his family. Once the neurological damage begins to assert itself, it's up to the former athlete's family (and sometimes his friends) to care for him up to and including the time of his ultimate death. The impact of that long-term care is expensive, time-consuming and emotionally debilitating. The whole experience is exhausting for one and all.
 
Truthhertz said:
In reality it is. People hyperventilating over injury in sports and demanding changes is comical. It’s like people didn’t understand playing sports came with risk. Millions of people play football, box, hockey, etc, every year for decade after decade. Fact is the statistics show you have better odds of simply just having fun than you are sustaining long term brain injury. In fact probably much greater odds developing arthritis In knees, back, etc, than sustain debilitating brain injury.
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For one no one said sports don’t have risks, what I’m saying is people don’t understand the risks involved with taking repeated blows to the head. And your pretty far off from reality if you think boxing doesn’t give you brain damage it’s probably the worst example of former athletes having brain issues for decade after decade. Now will a kid who plays 4 years of high school football have Chronic CTE? No chances are not even close but you don’t seem to know what CTE actually is. CTE is a brain disease that causes progressive degeneration of the brain. The brain degeneration is associated with symptoms including memory loss, confusion, impaired judgment, impulse control problems, aggression, depression, suicidality, parkinsonism, and eventually progressive dementia. Like most diseases genetics play a huge role also the number of blows. The players at real risk are the ones that play long careers for multiple years and if you want to just say hey they had fun! Fine but people are unaware of the long term risk. People should know that if they want to play in the NFL that brain damage is almost inevitable just like Boxing that’s the only point that I want to make
 
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One day there will be brain transplants with the advancement of medicine. I’m pretty sure they tried one with a baboon brain or maybe it was a heart. Of course it was not successful.
 
Truthhertz said:
I guess you should read posts you decide to quote then huh? My original post was about choices and sports. Sports naturally come with risks. It’s a choice if a individual decides to take that risk, and I named a few sports as examples. In those terms this CTE situation is much ado about nothing in all reality. Yes it’s a serious risk athletes take but not the only risk in sports or frankly life. Some of the rule changes are frankly ridiculous and add more danger to a already risky situation.

I guess in short if you are going to quote somebody and say exhibit “A” of what you’re talking about. You should know what exhibit “A” was. It was about choice.
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I guess it would have been more specific to say that your post was an example of a trash argument that’s only point is to shut down any talk about making football safer. My bad.
 
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I can't believe that Friday Night Tykes show aired on network TV. That show taught us everything not to do with the game, absolutely terrible. Unfortunately, younger coaches get terrible ideas as a result. I was shocked to discover there is a league in Sacramento that has virtually no weight limits, especially when running the football. I was subject to watching my nephew play for a South Sacramento team. In practice they ran a tackling drill called "Big Mac Bayou" and "Hamburger Hill. One of the drills would place 2 ball carriers on a decline hill full speed from 10-15 yards while 3 tacklers(buns) would attempt to tackle both ball carriers simultaneously as they collided in a coned off alley. Some of the collisions I witnessed were unreal. The coach explained to me the drill was great for open field tackling. I'm concerned at the youth level, we as a society have not made adequate changes to keep the game safe as possible.
 
What the hell is Hamburger Hill? That just doesn’t sound football appropriate at all. Hopefully these youth coaches figure it out or they will be spoon feeding a whole generation.
 
JCBUST said:
I can't believe that Friday Night Tykes show aired on network TV. That show taught us everything not to do with the game, absolutely terrible. Unfortunately, younger coaches get terrible ideas as a result. I was shocked to discover there is a league in Sacramento that has virtually no weight limits, especially when running the football. I was subject to watching my nephew play for a South Sacramento team. In practice they ran a tackling drill called "Big Mac Bayou" and "Hamburger Hill. One of the drills would place 2 ball carriers on a decline hill full speed from 10-15 yards while 3 tacklers(buns) would attempt to tackle both ball carriers simultaneously as they collided in a coned off alley. Some of the collisions I witnessed were unreal. The coach explained to me the drill was great for open field tackling. I'm concerned at the youth level, we as a society have not made adequate changes to keep the game safe as possible.
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Hopefully u reported that to the powers to be. Ridiculous
 
13 others said:
For one no one said sports don’t have risks, what I’m saying is people don’t understand the risks involved with taking repeated blows to the head. And your pretty far off from reality if you think boxing doesn’t give you brain damage it’s probably the worst example of former athletes having brain issues for decade after decade. Now will a kid who plays 4 years of high school football have Chronic CTE? No chances are not even close but you don’t seem to know what CTE actually is. CTE is a brain disease that causes progressive degeneration of the brain. The brain degeneration is associated with symptoms including memory loss, confusion, impaired judgment, impulse control problems, aggression, depression, suicidality, parkinsonism, and eventually progressive dementia. Like most diseases genetics play a huge role also the number of blows. The players at real risk are the ones that play long careers for multiple years and if you want to just say hey they had fun! Fine but people are unaware of the long term risk. People should know that if they want to play in the NFL that brain damage is almost inevitable just like Boxing that’s the only point that I want to make
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Lol. Maybe you don’t or didn’t understand the harmful affects of sports and repeated blows to not only your head but joints etc doesn’t mean others didn’t or don’t grasp it. It’s still a personal choice to play or participate in any activity that may be dangerous. It’s like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. Common sense says that’s a terrible idea, I don’t need you, some soccer mom, or the state telling me that. I’m never a fan when more tyranny is the answer. It the individuals choice.
 
SpeedCity51 said:
I guess it would have been more specific to say that your post was an example of a trash argument that’s only point is to shut down any talk about making football safer. My bad.
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But reality is it’s not making it safer. In fact it’s probably putting more players in jeopardy here. Players are now forced to target knees. Player we see all the time caught in poor positions trying to pull back which leads to increased injury risk. Cutting back on contact is putting kid on fields probably poorly prepared for full speed contact. It’s knee jerk soccer mom reactions that are ruining the game. Look want to protect player? Great. There are baseline tests that can be run to test brain functions on each individual prior to contact in any give season. If players exhibit or sustain concussions in course of season test them, have a protocol in place. Understand and educate the players to the risks of continued participation. Trying to change rule that ultimately create other issues is frankly pointless.
 
The Riverboat Gambler69 said:
A knee is definitely more important than a brain you bafoon!
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Not surprised you miss the point here. And in terms of players yes many are on record as saying much rather take a blow to the head than wreck a knee. Not my personal opinion but again that’s the players choice. Players make the choice to play or not. It’s not some soccer mom sitting around a chit chat table. Again its much ado about nothing. Owners don’t really care, coaches don’t really care, most players don’t really care, it’s the global warming of sports and driven by money. Yes head injuries and the study is new here and at the forefront I get that. But does anybody really need a scientist to explain to them sports are dangerous and might have long term affects? If they do then it might be to late the damage is done.
 
Truthhertz said:
Not surprised you miss the point here. And in terms of players yes many are on record as saying much rather take a blow to the head than wreck a knee. Not my personal opinion but again that’s the players choice. Players make the choice to play or not. It’s not some soccer mom sitting around a chit chat table. Again its much ado about nothing. Owners don’t really care, coaches don’t really care, most players don’t really care, it’s the global warming of sports and driven by money. Yes head injuries and the study is new here and at the forefront I get that. But does anybody really need a scientist to explain to them sports are dangerous and might have long term affects? If they do then it might be to late the damage is done.
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(It) Hertz- (!) you are either confused or ignorant. BTW, there’s no shame in ignorance; i.e. “I’m ignorant about quantum physics. Was it fission or fusion with Little Boy?”

We are alluding to YOUTH players, and most importantly, SUB-concussive cumulative events. Pro guys making millions certainly can make a choice; and with current knowledge some guys are enlightened (Borland.)

JCBust- It’s a main reason only one of my two played before HS. A single 8th grade year at that. One had a good Sr year with better #’s same league as his deLa peer. The other (single year youth at a different position) out-rated two of three (count em) FBS early signees. BOTH loved their Fr/JV stints at D. The only concussion was a scrimmage after-the-whistle PF by a wannabe.
 
1315 said:
It) Hertz- (!) you are either confused or ignorant. BTW, there’s no shame in ignorance; i.e. “I’m ignorant about quantum physics. Was it fission or fusion with Little Boy?”

We are alluding to YOUTH players, and most importantly, SUB-concussive cumulative events. Pro guys making millions certainly can make a choice; and with current knowledge some guys are enlightened (Borland.)

JCBust- It’s a main reason only one of my two played before HS. A single 8th grade year at that. One had a good Sr year with better #’s same league as his deLa peer. The other (single year youth at a different position) out-rated two of three (count em) FBS early signees. BOTH loved their Fr/JV stints at D. The only concussion was a scrimmage after-the-whistle PF by a wannabe.
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The ignorant one I guess would be you. Because most studies show that no matter the level concussion rates are about the same. So it doesn’t matter if it’s youth or HS, College, Pro. Only difference is a parent would probably make decision to participate or not at youth level. Most studies I have seen suggest that about 2 out of every 1000 playing sustain or suffer major head trauma, again overall relatively safe I would say. Changing the rules in many ways makes the game less safe but more marketable in today’s climate. And money is what it’s all about at every level.
 
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The Riverboat Gambler69 said:
I think if the NFL had a “ Concussion Bonus” placed into a Tax Shelter, it would help out the families in long term care for their loved ones.
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I would think that falls on the individual and not the league. Each player is basically independent. In other words they are like contractors. These players for the most part are very short sighted which is the problem.
 
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Truthhertz said:
The ignorant one I guess would be you. Because most studies show that no matter the level concussion rates are about the same. So it doesn’t matter if it’s youth or HS, College, Pro. Only difference is a parent would probably make decision to participate or not at youth level. Most studies I have seen suggest that about 2 out of every 1000 playing sustain or suffer major head trauma, again overall relatively safe I would say. Changing the rules in many ways makes the game less safe but more marketable in today’s climate. And money is what it’s all about at every level.
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Ignoring the issue of “repetitive sub-concussive events” is your prerogative. Myopic, yes. But yours nonetheless.
 
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