Mitty vs Carondelet

[Paytc]

I'll admit that may have been a bad example if she is as on and off as you stated, and I trust your info more than my 2 times watching Carondelet over the internet. I agree that the game was about flows and momentum and a few timely runs were the biggest difference, but I just meant that it wasnt only due to Carondelets ineptitude.. I think Mitty "made its own luck" with those runs, by creating them. They had to play very well for those spurts in order to win, and like sjbasket said about rotations of fresh players is a huge part of those spurts. They often happen at the end of quarters for a reason. I hope this matchup happens again, I think it'll be even better next time around. I like the way Carondelet plays and I hope they do well, like you I love rooting for well coached teams, and they definitely are one.

btw, ClayK, are you saying that you are one of those teams hoping for an upset??

Again I think I have said repeatedly how good I thought Clovis West and Mitty are. And the fact of the Matter as good as Mitty is now they will probably be much better next year. But I'm not here to promote Mitty or Carondelet. I am here in support of all the children on each team. My alignment is with Carondelet. The things I have said have never been against any player, coach, or team personally. I make comments designed to see improvement from all from the bottom to the top. Carondelet just happens to be the team I'm connected with closer. Every comment I made in reference to Carondelet getting better was not to diminish the success Mitty had in the game they played. I saw that coming before the game was played. So I am urging Carondelet to handle their own business. If Carondelet does that they won't need to worry about any other team, and shouldn't because other teams are not Carondelet's business anyway.

The fact of the matter Mitty didn't do anything any other team that has played Carondelet win or lose has done that has prevented Carondelet from looking at its obvious weaknesses and working to correct them. Mitty and several of the better teams just exposed the weaknesses more. But regardless, Carondelet,if they want to get better (and that to me is more important than worrying about winning) they will need to first acknowledge the weaknesses and then work to correct them.

 

[Paytc]

I thought we already established you are not a coach...?

With all the respect due if it is given in return in advance......I'll tell you and all who would ever make an attempt to label or define me who haven't a clue very much about me. I define me so others can call me whatever they want it will never define me. So you or no one else can tell me what I am or am not. I only define that. And it will never be wrapped into a simple one word label unless of course I choose that label. So no you and no one else established whether or not I am a coach.

Not that coaches are to be the only ones permitted to have opinions about coaches or coaching for that matter in the first place. Because everyone should be allowed to express opinions especially when there is no harm intended towards anyone in particular.

 

[OnBall8]

I didnt say only coaches could have opinions.. any one can.. everyone does. You said "us better coaches" implying you are one of the better coaches. Sure you can be whatever you want to be.. call yourself whatever you like, thats the world we have created.. be a unicorn for all i care

 

[winetot]

Paytc -

Why has the Carondelet coach not asked you to help yet? Do you think it is because you are a parent?

 

[Paytc]

Wouldn't you like to know the inner workings of the elite. Smile I think parents have coached their child before and some do presently coach their child as head and assistant coaches.

In my opinion Carondelet and the Lakers should be reaching out to me, among others....

paythekidsfirst@gmail.com just to make it convenient. Even though I'm not hard to find.

 

[winetot]

I coached at a private Catholic High School for almost 20 years, I may know more than you think.

 

[ClayK]

If Miramonte gets in the Open, we are simply not a physical matchup for Mitty -- and by that I mean size and strength. Their guards, Ortiz and Jones, are taller than our tallest player, and if you've seen us play, then you know what our two freshmen wings look like.

Size matters in basketball, and if two players are equal in skill and quickness, and one is four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, the taller and heavier player has the advantage. That doesn't mean that the result is already decided, but the edge has to go to the taller, stronger athlete. (Usually, the taller, stronger athletes are not as quick or coordinated as the smaller ones, but that's not true in Mitty's case.)

 

[OnBall8]

If Miramonte gets in the Open, we are simply not a physical matchup for Mitty -- and by that I mean size and strength. Their guards, Ortiz and Jones, are taller than our tallest player, and if you've seen us play, then you know what our two freshmen wings look like.

Size matters in basketball, and if two players are equal in skill and quickness, and one is four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, the taller and heavier player has the advantage. That doesn't mean that the result is already decided, but the edge has to go to the taller, stronger athlete. (Usually, the taller, stronger athletes are not as quick or coordinated as the smaller ones, but that's not true in Mitty's case.)

I really wish we could have seen this matchup last year. I think it would have been very fun to watch and see what each coach did

 

[Paytc]

In general, I agree -- but I thought Mitty could have played much better, and I do think Mitty is clearly the best team in Northern California, and by a wide margin. They are just as powerful as the great SMS teams, relatively speaking, and though not perfect, have few holes.

Also, though Carondelet missed many easy shots, the Cougars also banked in more than a couple, so in some ways that balances out.

Carondelet is very good, and Open-bound, but like seven of the eight Open teams, will be hoping someone else beats Mitty before they have to play the Monarchs.

Clay,

I'm sure Mitty must love your support and at times unrealistic enthusiasm. Knowing the little I do about Sue Phillips, she probably would prefer her team stay more humble and hungry than over hyped. If I hadn't seen them lose with my own eyes at the TOC based on the props you and a few others give them (and they do deserve some major props up to an extent) I would think they were an undefeatable or undefeated team? Or one with practically just one loss at the Toc by a top ranked Dillard in two years. Who then upset the mighty MD with Katie Lou in the California Open State Championship. Then returned to the TOC and won the Toc at the highest level. And were a team that truly had the intimidation factor that SMS had for that two year run. No? I think it's fair to say they don't carry that intimidation factor, and they haven't won the TOC or the Open State Championship yet. (They may indeed do both?) Nor do they strike fear in potential opponents at the level SMS did during that most impressive run by perhaps the most impressive California( if not nation-wide team) in recent to forever history of girls high school basketball.

Let's give Mitty props for being a very good team with the potential to win both the TOC and the California Open State Championship. But not hand them trophies before they cross goal lines. Nor be unrealistic about just how great they are at this point. No team is that good, so we mustn't get it twisted. Like my homie Money B says....you and a few others "are on their wood like a tree sitter" Smile.

And when a person has a belief that their team is capable of doing more and playing well against the so call best, that doesn't mean they are trying to discredit the so call better team. No, it means they are setting up realistic achievable goals for them selves and their own team so that they at least increase the odds of being able to present the best showing if and when they play these better teams that are presently playing at a level or two higher than they are.


Congratulations to Mitty on a well coached and well played game. You do appear to be growing together as a close nit and enjoyable team to watch play. Much success to you all as you move forward in your lives as young adults and talented basketball players at whatever levels you reach.

 

[Coach102532]

Clay,
Did you really put that out there? I can't believe you would say that about a team you currently coach. Even if you think it, why would you put it out there for others and possibly the players from Miramonte to see. If I'm a player and my coach just said we are no match for Mitty, and you know what out freshmen wings look like, I would lose all respect for him. If coaches don't have supreme confidence in their players, then how do you expect players to go out and believe in themselves. Pinewood was no match for St Mary's last year but they beat them. Did Doc say we are no match for them? You are an embarrassment and a poor excuse for a coach. Walk into that gym and tell those kids what you said and see if you get any respect from them or the other coaches on that staff. Sitting in a meeting with the coaching staff and wondering how do we match up against a team is completely different than putting it out there for everyone to see including players. I guess that's status quo for a guy who would cancel games because the other teams are better and you might have to take a beating instead of competing. I feel sorry for the players at Miramonte if this is what they have to deal with.

 

[Sjbasket]

we are now coming to the best part of the season. Teams have now gone through their so called adjustment period, transfers have landed, players getting the needed rest from challenging preseason schedule.

This is the time when players and coaches decide it on the court. As far as national rankings go, maxpreps, USA Today, ESPN, Bluestar media. We have to accept the reality at a girls high school basketball level there way to many variables to get extreme accuracy. The true factor is there are those 15-20 teams that are truly standing out above the rest.

As usual the post season will give us many answers. Then graduation will dictate which programs remain and which will look to rebuild for future seasons.

I know I'm staying the obvious,

 

[ClayK]

Archbishop Mitty is a top ten team in the country, and no other Northern California team is even close.

Does Mitty have flaws? Absolutely. They lack a true point guard, are not particularly quick and not particularly fast. Their perimeter shooting, especially from three-point distance, is not consistent.

All of those weaknesses were exposed by Grandview, which won by one point, and even more so by St. John's, which took advantage of Garza's absence, among other things.

At the highest levels, basketball becomes a game of matchups, and St. John's matches up very well with Mitty due to its quickness on the perimeter. Mitty, on the other hand, matches up very well with teams that are not overwhelmingly quick and fast, because then their size becomes the determining factor.

Carondelet, in many ways, is like Mitty -- tall, strong, inconsistent from three-point distance and vulnerable to perimeter quickness from high-level teams. But, as mentioned, there aren't many high-level teams in Northern California (a lot of very good ones, though) so those weaknesses are unlikely to be exploited.

I would not be surprised at all to see a Carondelet-Mitty matchup in the NorCal Open finals, especially with SMS struggling (may not even make the Open) and no other real matchup issues. Of course Carondelet could lose along the way, as could every team -- Mitty, however, has by far the best odds of getting to the NorCal Open finals because I don't see a NorCal team that can really take advantage of their weaknesses.

 

[Paytc]

Archbishop Mitty is a top ten team in the country, and no other Northern California team is even close.

Does Mitty have flaws? Absolutely. They lack a true point guard, are not particularly quick and not particularly fast. Their perimeter shooting, especially from three-point distance, is not consistent.

All of those weaknesses were exposed by Grandview, which won by one point, and even more so by St. John's, which took advantage of Garza's absence, among other things.

At the highest levels, basketball becomes a game of matchups, and St. John's matches up very well with Mitty due to its quickness on the perimeter. Mitty, on the other hand, matches up very well with teams that are not overwhelmingly quick and fast, because then their size becomes the determining factor.

Carondelet, in many ways, is like Mitty -- tall, strong, inconsistent from three-point distance and vulnerable to perimeter quickness from high-level teams. But, as mentioned, there aren't many high-level teams in Northern California (a lot of very good ones, though) so those weaknesses are unlikely to be exploited.

I would not be surprised at all to see a Carondelet-Mitty matchup in the NorCal Open finals, especially with SMS struggling (may not even make the Open) and no other real matchup issues. Of course Carondelet could lose along the way, as could every team -- Mitty, however, has by far the best odds of getting to the NorCal Open finals because I don't see a NorCal team that can really take advantage of their weaknesses.

Thanks for sharing your opinion ! I agree with some of it. Smile.

You talk about Carondelet and Mitty not being consistent at the 3 point shot? Based on seeing them shoot from 3 point range in one or two high level games? What girls team is consistent from 3 point range? Especially when playing the so call best? The 3 point shot is about a 30% shot in high school girls basketball. Everyone's inconsistent at that shot.

The Warriors have three of the best shooters in the history of the game. And they are not always consistent from three point range. No girl or girls team I've seen comes close to shooting under pressure better than any good pro basketball 3 point shooter. And the pros shoot about 40% on average (and that's being very kind) from 3 point range.

Players tend to shoot better when the team has good spacing and good ball movement. And a good half court offense. That way players have time to set their feet and shoot in rhythm. Not many players and teams understand that. That is why coaching can make the difference when all things are close or equal. And it is why I talk about coaching importance so often.

 

[ClayK]

Clay,
Did you really put that out there? I can't believe you would say that about a team you currently coach. Even if you think it, why would you put it out there for others and possibly the players from Miramonte to see. If I'm a player and my coach just said we are no match for Mitty, and you know what out freshmen wings look like, I would lose all respect for him. If coaches don't have supreme confidence in their players, then how do you expect players to go out and believe in themselves. Pinewood was no match for St Mary's last year but they beat them. Did Doc say we are no match for them? You are an embarrassment and a poor excuse for a coach. Walk into that gym and tell those kids what you said and see if you get any respect from them or the other coaches on that staff. Sitting in a meeting with the coaching staff and wondering how do we match up against a team is completely different than putting it out there for everyone to see including players. I guess that's status quo for a guy who would cancel games because the other teams are better and you might have to take a beating instead of competing. I feel sorry for the players at Miramonte if this is what they have to deal with.

So you don't like the way I approach the game -- I get that, and your criticism is not without merit. People do things differently, and have success in different ways.

I'm not going to defend my philosophy here, but one point: Just because we don't match up physically doesn't mean we don't have a chance to win -- it's just that the path to victory is very narrow given that reality.

I never mislead my players about what I think about our upcoming opponents. Sometimes I may not say it unless asked, but I try to be as honest as possible. And there is a difference between saying we have a matchup issue, and saying we can't win.

And I've told my teams in the past that winning certain games is really not in the cards. (If you lost by 50 in the first league matchup, at home, it's pretty hard to sell that you're going to win at their place.) But that doesn't mean you don't compete, and you don't play hard, and you don't try to win every possession.

Coaching, for me at least, is not all about winning, nor the illusion of winning. It's about competing in every situation you are placed in -- and, to another point of yours, I feel it's better all around to be in situations where competing can lead to a good chance to a win, which is how success is measured in sports. I like my players to have success, and I'm pretty sure they do too. (Sorry, I said I wouldn't talk about philosophy but I couldn't help myself.)

 

[CamAca]

If Miramonte gets in the Open, we are simply not a physical matchup for Mitty -- and by that I mean size and strength. Their guards, Ortiz and Jones, are taller than our tallest player, and if you've seen us play, then you know what our two freshmen wings look like.

Size matters in basketball, and if two players are equal in skill and quickness, and one is four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, the taller and heavier player has the advantage. That doesn't mean that the result is already decided, but the edge has to go to the taller, stronger athlete. (Usually, the taller, stronger athletes are not as quick or coordinated as the smaller ones, but that's not true in Mitty's case.)

Isn't that the same scenario for most of the potential Open teams that have to face or might have to face Mitty this year?...I am sure that is one of the reasons they are so strong.

 

[OnBall8]

I guess I could see both sides, and it really comes down to philosophy like Clay stated. There are coaches that will never show a doubt, never disclose to the team that they are at a disadvantage. Telling the team "we got this", "we are as good/better than them","stick with what you know and you'll be fine" can be great motivators and can absolutely instill confidence and inspire great play. But so can "keepin it real" with the team. Going into the game saying, "look, we are smaller (or whatever the disadvantage may be), but this is how we are going to combat this issue". Telling girls that it is an uphill battle, but then giving them a gameplan that they buy into can go just as far to instill confidence. I've seen and experienced both methods work. Just depends on the coach, and more importantly the group of girls.

And don't forget that Clay is a writer, he does his best to stay objective, and he is going to come on here and give his honest opinion as he sees it. And I respect that

 

[Paytc]

I guess I could see both sides, and it really comes down to philosophy like Clay stated. There are coaches that will never show a doubt, never disclose to the team that they are at a disadvantage. Telling the team "we got this", "we are as good/better than them","stick with what you know and you'll be fine" can be great motivators and can absolutely instill confidence and inspire great play. But so can "keepin it real" with the team. Going into the game saying, "look, we are smaller (or whatever the disadvantage may be), but this is how we are going to combat this issue". Telling girls that it is an uphill battle, but then giving them a gameplan that they buy into can go just as far to instill confidence. I've seen and experienced both methods work. Just depends on the coach, and more importantly the group of girls.

And don't forget that Clay is a writer, he does his best to stay objective, and he is going to come on here and give his honest opinion as he sees it. And I respect that

Really good points. Because all teams and all players are different. And in my book, I stay away from ego and absolutes. That is one of the many important areas in coaching.... knowing what buttons to push and what motivates your players individually, your team, and creates illusions for others to fall to sleep on.

Plus, if I were to guess, I would think Miramonte coaches and players like their odds at winning a Division 2 state championship slightly over an Open Division State Championship.

And just about every coach and players will take any state championship they can get.

But I'm sorry to say, Miramonte appears to be on the Open Division path. Even though they are long shots at winning there.

Miramonte, like Carondelet and every other good team, should be focused on getting better and taking on any and every challenge. Not ducking and dodging challenges. Or trying to lose intentionally just to avoid a team or teams you might be able to beat if you focus on getting better and taking on each challenge that comes during the process. Overcoming great odds is far more impressive than not taking on challenges and taking the easy route like we see so many of these unchallenged fake pretenders who are given things they have not earned. And falsely labeled great or #1 when they took the easiest route imaginable.

 

[mkbgdns]

and if you've seen us play, then you know what our two freshmen wings look like.

my wife's non-basketball evaluation: "they look so young.."

a peak experience for a basketball team is to pull an upset--sometimes it makes your season. ask Pinewood. acknowledging that your team is at a big disadvantage doesn't mean they can't win, or even that your team doesn't think it can win. for the underdog, a game against a favored opponent can be Showtime.

 

[letsski]

Clay,
Did you really put that out there? I can't believe you would say that about a team you currently coach. Even if you think it, why would you put it out there for others and possibly the players from Miramonte to see. If I'm a player and my coach just said we are no match for Mitty, and you know what out freshmen wings look like, I would lose all respect for him. If coaches don't have supreme confidence in their players, then how do you expect players to go out and believe in themselves. Pinewood was no match for St Mary's last year but they beat them. Did Doc say we are no match for them? You are an embarrassment and a poor excuse for a coach. Walk into that gym and tell those kids what you said and see if you get any respect from them or the other coaches on that staff. Sitting in a meeting with the coaching staff and wondering how do we match up against a team is completely different than putting it out there for everyone to see including players. I guess that's status quo for a guy who would cancel games because the other teams are better and you might have to take a beating instead of competing. I feel sorry for the players at Miramonte if this is what they have to deal with.

I'm a bit confused. Clay wrote: "we are simply not a physical matchup for Mitty -- and by that I mean size and strength - the taller and heavier player has the advantage. That doesn't mean that the result is already decided, but the edge has to go to the taller, stronger athlete."

What Clay wrote is fact - Mitty IS bigger and taller. Do you think his players don't know that Mitty's guards are 6'2" and his are 5'6"? A good coach acknowledges mismatches and then game plans to counter those advantages. Last year Pinewood wasn't as fast nor as athletic as St. Marys - do you think Doc went into that game telling his players - "look lets outrun them because we're the more physically gifted and quicker team? No, he told his players the truth, then planned a strategy to counter St. Marys' advantages. If you don't take an honest look at your team, then you can't truly prepare your team.

As a side note - in over 20 years I've never met a player that reads this site nor would care what was written by message board poster.

 

[jaymel911]

Pretty scary that parents comment on their own team on this board, other than "Go Team"

 

[mkbgdns]

Do you think his players don't know that Mitty's guards are 6'2" and his are 5'6"?

better they know in advance than that they find out for the first time at the opening tip. and it's not so much knowing, as what they're coached to do with the knowledge.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

Does Mitty have flaws? Absolutely. They lack a true point guard

I'm guessing most teams would trade their "true" point guard for Karisma Ortiz.

 

[CamAca]

Clay,
Did you really put that out there? I can't believe you would say that about a team you currently coach. Even if you think it, why would you put it out there for others and possibly the players from Miramonte to see. If I'm a player and my coach just said we are no match for Mitty, and you know what out freshmen wings look like, I would lose all respect for him. If coaches don't have supreme confidence in their players, then how do you expect players to go out and believe in themselves. Pinewood was no match for St Mary's last year but they beat them. Did Doc say we are no match for them? You are an embarrassment and a poor excuse for a coach. Walk into that gym and tell those kids what you said and see if you get any respect from them or the other coaches on that staff. Sitting in a meeting with the coaching staff and wondering how do we match up against a team is completely different than putting it out there for everyone to see including players. I guess that's status quo for a guy who would cancel games because the other teams are better and you might have to take a beating instead of competing. I feel sorry for the players at Miramonte if this is what they have to deal with.

What I WOULDN'T respect is some coach trying to blow smoke up my arse and tell me a bunch of crap that is simply not true. Nobody respects that. Clay is mentioning the difficulty for MM with physical matchups....I don't think there is much more to it than that other than he keeps insinuating such things because he would prefer MM didn't make the Open in the first place. Can you blame him? Kids aren't stupid... the MM kids will know physically that they will be the underdog if they have to play Mitty, but I guarantee you Kelly will we working in practice on how to overcome their physical deficits in order to compensate and compete and will have them believing they can win notwithstanding. And the kids will buy into that. So I wouldn't blast Clay so harshly...really not that big of a deal especially in light of the fact that he wears two hats.

 

[CamAca]

Pretty scary that parents comment on their own team on this board, other than "Go Team"

Really??? This board is full of a bunch of parents, worn out old coaches and writers...if everybody just said "Go Team" with little commentary, it would be very boring and few would tune in is my bet. I don't think many kids even read this forum not that it matters.

 

[OnBall8]

I'm guessing most teams would trade their "true" point guard for Karisma Ortiz.

So true.. and is she not a "true" PG because almost every player in most rotations can bring the ball up?? I see many teams that have a "true" pg only because thats the only reliable weapon to bring the ball up time after time...

 

[jaymel911]

Really??? This board is full of a bunch of parents, worn out old coaches and writers...if everybody just said "Go Team" with little commentary, it would be very boring and few would tune in is my bet. I don't think many kids even read this forum not that it matters.

And if every parent got on the message board and offered up passive aggressive comments about their team and their coach it could get pretty messy.

 

[Paytc]

Really??? This board is full of a bunch of parents, worn out old coaches and writers...if everybody just said "Go Team" with little commentary, it would be very boring and few would tune in is my bet. I don't think many kids even read this forum not that it matters.

CamAca,


This is a sports forum which comments on children playing sports. And most of those children have parents. It is up to those parents to work with other adults within the sports and academic community to see to it that the children are guided properly. And their safety, happiness, and well being is at the front of the priority list. Not just winning at all cost, or negative competition. So parents should most definitely join in on the discussion(s).Most parents on here I've notice discuss a variety of things. Not just issues relating to their own team which is however very important. That adds spice and variety.

Actually this board and this world would be 100 times more exciting and productive if more individuals got off the sidelines. Instead of just sitting around listening to and observing questionable acts, just as long as they are not directly affected. Because even if things don't directly effect you, they will indirectly. And sooner or later the same issues will come into your reality. As they should for looking the other way. Instead of looking to see how to be helpful. Let your reasonable voices be heard. Share your opinions. Go everyone's team ! Go children !

 

[CamAca]

CamAca,


This is a sports forum which comments on children playing sports. And most of those children have parents. It is up to those parents to work with other adults within the sports and academic community to see to it that the children are guided properly. And their safety, happiness, and well being is at the front of the priority list. Not just winning at all cost. So parents should most definitely join in on the discussion(s).Most parents on here I've notice discuss a variety of things. Not just issues relating to their own team.

Actually this board and this world would be 100 times more exciting and productive if more individuals got off the sidelines. Instead of just sitting around listening to and observing questionable acts, just as long as they are not directly affected. Because even if things don't directly effect you, they will indirectly. And sooner or later the same issues will come into your reality. As they should for looking the other way. Instead of looking to see how to be helpful. Let your reasonable voices be heard. Share your opinions. Go everyone's team ! Go children !

Don't think I'm implying anything different so..... I think we agree

 

[kkross22]

CamAca,


This is a sports forum which comments on children playing sports. And most of those children have parents. It is up to those parents to work with other adults within the sports and academic community to see to it that the children are guided properly. And their safety, happiness, and well being is at the front of the priority list. Not just winning at all cost. So parents should most definitely join in on the discussion(s).Most parents on here I've notice discuss a variety of things. Not just issues relating to their own team. That adds spice and variety.

Actually this board and this world would be 100 times more exciting and productive if more individuals got off the sidelines. Instead of just sitting around listening to and observing questionable acts, just as long as they are not directly affected. Because even if things don't directly effect you, they will indirectly. And sooner or later the same issues will come into your reality. As they should for looking the other way. Instead of looking to see how to be helpful. Let your reasonable voices be heard. Share your opinions. Go everyone's team ! Go children !

I totally agree!

Really??? This board is full of a bunch of parents, worn out old coaches and writers...if everybody just said "Go Team" with little commentary, it would be very boring and few would tune in is my bet. I don't think many kids even read this forum not that it matters.

Believe me, there are a lot of kids who read this board. You'd be surprised how many screenshots of certain posts have been passed around to peers.