Nor-Cal Bowl Matchups

[SearsPoints]

DIVISION 1–AA
Central, Fresno (13-0) at Oak Ridge (11-2) – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30 p.m.

DIVISION 1–A
San Joaquin Memorial (12-1) at Serra, San Mateo (12-1) – Saturday, Dec. 7 at Noon

DIVISION 2–AA
Elk Grove (10-4) at Clayton Valley Charter (8-5) – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30 p.m.

DIVISION 2–A
Manteca (11-2) at McClymonds (10-0) – Saturday, Dec. 7 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 3–AA
Los Gatos (12-1) at Cardinal Newman (12-1) – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30 p.m.

DIVISION 3–A
Rancho Cotate (10-3) at Sierra, Manteca (11-3) – Saturday, Dec. 7 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 4–AA
Sutter (12-1) at Ripon (12-1) – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30 p.m.

DIVISION 4–A
Escalon (12-1) at Pleasant Valley (7-5) – Saturday, Dec. 7 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 5–AA
Del Norte, Crescent City (12-2) at Kings Academy (10-3) – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30 p.m.

DIVISION 5–A
Milpitas (7-6) at Caruthers (13-1) – Saturday, Dec. 7 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 6–AA
St. Bernard’s, Eureka (10-3) vs. East Nicolaus (12-1) at River Valley HS – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30p.m.

DIVISION 6–A
Salesian, Richmond (11-2) at Santa Cruz (10-3) – Saturday, Dec. 7 at 6:00 p.m.

DIVISION 7–AA
Lincoln, San Francisco (10-1) vs. Mariposa (8-4) at Golden Valley HS – Friday, Dec. 6 at 7:30 p.m.

 

[Streak One]

First pass, I don’t see anything real glaring wrong. Would have liked to see CN-McClymonds but some good matchups for this coming week

 

[SmoothJay]

First pass, I don’t see anything real glaring wrong. Would have liked to see CN-McClymonds but some good matchups for this coming week

How is home field advantage determined?

 

[Cal 14]

No ranking service/poll had/has Oak Ridge higher than Serra. Every single one (including NorCalPreps) has Serra not only higher, but much higher.

Just goes to show that the CCS leadership just doesn't fight for its members very well, while it's clear that those for the SJS do.

 

[ThunderRam]

No ranking service/poll had/has Oak Ridge higher than Serra. Every single one (including NorCalPreps) has Serra not only higher, but much higher.

Just goes to show that the CCS leadership just doesn't fight for its members very well, while it's clear that those for the SJS do.

Serious question, but after the Open — does it really matter which division a team is bracketed into?

I mean, perhaps Serra/CCS didn’t care which one they’re in since they’re not going Open? Outside of Open, it’s not like any of the games are more prestigious than the other. Hell, I believe they’ve got an easier matchup.

But outside of that possibility, I agree that Serra is likely better than OR and potentially a stronger opponent against Central.

 

[bella123]

No ranking service/poll had/has Oak Ridge higher than Serra. Every single one (including NorCalPreps) has Serra not only higher, but much higher.

Just goes to show that the CCS leadership just doesn't fight for its members very well, while it's clear that those for the SJS do.

How much juice does the section have in the final decision? If they have some and didn’t put up a fight, shame on them. Just curious who gets the final say. Because yes this looks flawed and screwed up. Someone at the section or CIF level dropped the ball and the level of incompetence that the CIF and the sections have shown in the past it easily could be either.

 

[Cal 14]

Serious question, but after the Open — does it really matter which division a team is bracketed into?

I mean, perhaps Serra/CCS didn’t care which one they’re in since they’re not going Open? Outside of Open, it’s not like any of the games are more prestigious than the other. Hell, I believe they’ve got an easier matchup.

But outside of that possibility, I agree that Serra is likely better than OR and potentially a stronger opponent against Central.

It matters a little. The CIF tells us things but then goes against what they tell us. It's pretty annoying.

It actually seems as if they went with your Folsom-related argument.

 

[Cal 14]

How much juice does the section have in the final decision? If they have some and didn’t put up a fight, shame on them. Just curious who gets the final say. Because yes this looks flawed and screwed up. Someone at the section or CIF level dropped the ball and the level of incompetence that the CIF and the sections have shown in the past it easily could be either.

Every sectional winner advances, so there at least isn't the same level of politics as before. However, you've got to figure that the CS, SS, or SDS commissioners aren't going to be making arguments on the CCS winners' behalf. That's got to be up to the CCS commissioner.

This is a lot like how they were impressed by how Grant beat two state champs in 2008, despite the fact that neither of those entire states had as many school as the CCS alone. Demonstrates that they don't really know anything about the landscape.

 

[bella123]

Serious question, but after the Open — does it really matter which division a team is bracketed into?

I mean, perhaps Serra/CCS didn’t care which one they’re in since they’re not going Open? Outside of Open, it’s not like any of the games are more prestigious than the other. Hell, I believe they’ve got an easier matchup.

But outside of that possibility, I agree that Serra is likely better than OR and potentially a stronger opponent against Central.

That is a valid point. But you figure they’d at least want to get matched up with the best possible opponent out there.

 

[ThunderRam]

It matters a little. The CIF tells us things but then goes against what they tell us. It's pretty annoying.

It actually seems as if they went with your Folsom-related argument.

Except that OR didn’t beat Folsom. Just beat the team that did. Not quite the same.

I still contend that we might be overrating the differences between these divisions. Outside of Open which is geared to be a matchup of the perceived 2 best teams overall, the other games are pretty much the same. Just supposed to be enrollment based.

Serra can win D1 A and still be ranked above whomever wins D1 AA, no?

 

[colhenrylives]

Not all are enrollment-based. Witness Lincoln of SF in the bottom division. Lincoln has a large enrollment. And that's just one example. Milpitas is another.

 

[cougar15]

The thing that's a farce about all this is that schools like Pleasant Valley (1,900 students and 7-5 record) can go beat a school with 800 students (Escalon) and then they're one game away from getting to proclaim that they're "state champions". It's really unfortunate the direction that high school sports have moved in California, with competitive equity, 14 state champions, etc.

 

[Cal 14]

Except that OR didn’t beat Folsom. Just beat the team that did. Not quite the same.

I still contend that we might be overrating the differences between these divisions. Outside of Open which is geared to be a matchup of the perceived 2 best teams overall, the other games are pretty much the same. Just supposed to be enrollment based.

Serra can win D1 A and still be ranked above whomever wins D1 AA, no?

No, enrollment plays no role. My comment (not properly explained) was that Folsom apparently played a role.

Really, though, the more I look at this, the more it doesn't make sense. You could make a good argument about the OR's Folsom game being a "good loss", but Rocklin? How was that ignored? Serra also had a win (two, actually) over the team that beat them. I just don't get it.

One positive from this is that, in my opinion, the CIF messed up the SoCal D-IAA game, too. I would have put Corona del Mar in that one and Sierra Canyon in D-IA. Instead (at least on paper), it appears that we'll get a potentially really good Serra-Corona del Mar game in D-IA.

 

[ds1968]

Except that OR didn’t beat Folsom. Just beat the team that did. Not quite the same.

I still contend that we might be overrating the differences between these divisions. Outside of Open which is geared to be a matchup of the perceived 2 best teams overall, the other games are pretty much the same. Just supposed to be enrollment based.

Serra can win D1 A and still be ranked above whomever wins D1 AA, no?

That’s a good point I did not know. The selection of norcal game placement for teams is based on enrollment.

 

[Cal 14]

The thing that's a farce about all this is that schools like Pleasant Valley (1,900 students and 7-5 record) can go beat a school with 800 students (Escalon) and then they're one game away from getting to proclaim that they're "state champions". It's really unfortunate the direction that high school sports have moved with competitive equity, 14 state champions, etc.

So, you'd rather see complete blowouts among big schools? You'd rather see the small school powerhouses blast the non-powerhouse small schools? Would that make you feel better?

 

[zebs]

It's not enrollment based. It's based on competative equity. Escalon and Pleasant Valley are on two different ends of the spectrum with enrollment.

 

[Cal 14]

That’s a good point I did not know. The selection of norcal game placement for teams is based on enrollment.

No, it isn't.

 

[ds1968]

No, it isn't.

Ok Im confused with all these posts concurrently. But thanks for correcting me

 

[ds1968]

I guess I’m just questioning serra at the 1-A level. I’m just considering 3 issues
1. If teams are placed on equity, then serra imho should be be 1-AA because you are ranked higher and you want that chance to play the best teams possible
2. since serra is placed at 1-A, it’s now a home game which is obviously better
3. But after the open, does it really matter what level a team plays.
Just discerning in my thought process

 

[bella123]

The thing that's a farce about all this is that schools like Pleasant Valley (1,900 students and 7-5 record) can go beat a school with 800 students (Escalon) and then they're one game away from getting to proclaim that they're "state champions". It's really unfortunate the direction that high school sports have moved in California, with competitive equity, 14 state champions, etc.

I tend to agree. To me the first few years of the SBG generated the most interest and it has waned since. First year, 3 games seemed exciting. They added the Open and a small school division (later D IV) and had 5 games. Seemed like the right number.

They’ve added regional games which in theory should have garnered more interest, but I don’t think it has...maybe because the best matchup at the top isn’t even played anymore?

I’ll watch the Open and maybe watch a bit of a game on Friday and maybe a bit if one on Saturday, but it’s not must see for me. Seems the CIF has watered down a product (obviously for sake of $$) rather than put together a top notch state playoff. I’ve said it before, but until they blow up the sections that will never happen. If they can put on more mediocre games but still make a buck they won’t change a thing.

 

[cougar15]

So, you'd rather see complete blowouts among big schools? You'd rather see the small school powerhouses blast the non-powerhouse small schools? Would that make you feel better?

If those were the only 2 options, yes, I'd rather see blowouts than big schools being rewarded for mediocrity and small schools having to play schools with 5x more kids to choose from, for a chance to win a state championship. Thankfully, those aren't the only two options. Unfortunately, we've chosen a completely flawed system, in my opinion.

 

[ILOVETROJANFOOTBALL]

That’s a good point I did not know. The selection of norcal game placement for teams is based on enrollment.

Lets see if OR can hang 80 on Central

 

[Cal 14]

If those were the only 2 options, yes, I'd rather see blowouts than big schools being rewarded for mediocrity and small schools having to play schools with 5x more kids to choose from, for a chance to win a state championship. Thankfully, those aren't the only two options. Unfortunately, we've chosen a completely flawed system, in my opinion.

Actually, those are the only options... which is why the CIF didn't choose your preference.

 

[Cal 14]

Lets see if OR can hang 80 on Central

Let's see if they can score 38 on the Grizzlies, which is how much I'm guessing it will take to get the win.

I'm not holding my breath for this to happen, though.

 

[Cal 14]

I guess I’m just questioning serra at the 1-A level. I’m just considering 3 issues
1. If teams are placed on equity, then serra imho should be be 1-AA because you are ranked higher and you want that chance to play the best teams possible
2. since serra is placed at 1-A, it’s now a home game which is obviously better
3. But after the open, does it really matter what level a team plays.
Just discerning in my thought process

In my opinion, Serra should be in D-IAA. That would have been a tougher regional game, but I'm not entirely sure that the SoCal rep in D-IAA will be better than in D-IA.

 

[dcpanda]

I think Serra may have been the 1AA rep if they still had McLemore. Lampkin has tons of potential, Serra has plenty of excellent players, and Walsh is a great coach, but this is clearly a different offense without McLemore. I think 1A is a better slot for them without their leader at QB. This will be their highest slot ever, by the way (they previously played in 2A and 2AA).

Edit: Cal 14 points out Serra did get a D1 slot in 2013 under the previous playoff set up.

 

[cougar15]

Actually, those are the only options... which is why the CIF didn't choose your preference.

If you think there are only two options when it comes to how high school playoffs could be organized, I'm not sure you have the depth necessary to make it worth continuing this conversation. Have a nice day.

 

[colhenrylives]

Competitive equity, the new buzzword favored by the PC folks at CIF, is AYSO writ large.

 

[dcpanda]

Competitive equity, the new buzzword favored by the PC folks at CIF, is AYSO writ large.

Why is that worse than enrollment-based? Enrollment means nothing these days as far as competitive football programs.

 

[Cal 14]

If you think there are only two options when it comes to how high school playoffs could be organized, I'm not sure you have the depth necessary to make it worth continuing this conversation. Have a nice day.

You have no idea who I am. Feel free to take a poll as who whose opinion is more respected on this site... yours or mine.

 

[cougar15]

No ranking service/poll had/has Oak Ridge higher than Serra. Every single one (including NorCalPreps) has Serra not only higher, but much higher.

Just goes to show that the CCS leadership just doesn't fight for its members very well, while it's clear that those for the SJS do.

Do you think there's a chance that the CCS leadership got exactly what they wanted, a more favorable match-up for their team? I can tell you for a fact that many coaches care more about winning a "state championship" than whether it's 1-AA or 1-A.

 

[larry legend33]

Couldn’t you make an argument Oak Ridge is playing better than anybody right now in NorCal? They have the best QB and possibly player in Lamson. Don’t discount this team. They are very worthy to compete /beat central. Serra Not Same Team with backup QB.

 

[Cal 14]

I think Serra may have been the 1AA rep if they still had McLemore. Lampkin has tons of potential, Serra has plenty of excellent players, and Walsh is a great coach, but this is clearly a different offense without McLemore. I think 1A is a better slot for them without their leader at QB. This will be their highest slot ever, by the way (they previously played in 2A and 2AA).

Not exactly. When the Open Division still had the regional game, Serra played Del Oro in D-I (2013). The Eagles took home that game.

 

[Cal 14]

Couldn’t you make an argument Oak Ridge is playing better than anybody right now in NorCal? They have the best QB and possibly player in Lamson. Don’t discount this team. They are very worthy to compete /beat central. Serra Not Same Team with backup QB.

You could, but there is an equal argument for Serra even with the backup.

Really, people went gaga over Monterey Trail's win over Folsom and so a lot of people are high on Oak Ridge now. I get that.

To me, though, MT's win didn't prove they were better. A lot of things had to fall into place for them to beat Folsom. I don't think the Bulldogs would lose to them more than 3 times in 10 games. I also don't think they lose to Oak Ridge in any higher of a percentage. Keep in mind that the Trojans only beat Turlock by 10 3 weeks ago.

 

[cougar15]

You have no idea who I am. Feel free to take a poll as who whose opinion is more respected on this site... yours or mine.

Honestly, no disrespect, but I don't care who you are...and if you think "high school message board street cred" means anything, you're mistaken.

That said, you can't quote only part of a sentence, you need to quote it all. I didn't say that you do, in fact, lack the capabilities to have a meaningful conversation regarding this (that's still to be determined). I would stick with my statement though that if you really think there are only 2 ways to run a state playoff, in a state with as many variables and nuances as California has, you're either not being genuine, or you're not understanding my argument. Would you not agree that omitting some teams and having fewer games might be another option? Is it mandatory that schools like Pleasant Valley, Milpitas, and Elk Grove must be in the mix for a state championship with 4+ losses?

I have no problem having a friendly discussion about this. At the end, we might still disagree...no big deal, it's just high school sports.

 

[larry legend33]

They also boat raced Inderkum 56-21 the week after. I was at both games. Turlock wasn’t bad. Very physical.
I think OR plays Serra and it’s a tossup. Not much separates theses teams.

 

[SearsPoints]

Why is that worse than enrollment-based? Enrollment means nothing these days as far as competitive football programs.

Exactly correct, which is why it is better then some of these competitive equity systems out there.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel things should be 100% enrollment, but is should be based on enrollment and then allowances made for programs that should be higher and/or lower. By no means should Milpitas be in CCS D4 and by no means should HMB be in in D1. Milpitas no lower then D2 and HMB no higher then D2/D3. BTW, a lot like the way the SJS does things. And no, I don't think the SJS has a perfect system.

I also feel teams should know their path to a title before the season beings. Should not be a moving target.

 

[FBAddict]

You could, but there is an equal argument for Serra even with the backup.

Really, people went gaga over Monterey Trail's win over Folsom and so a lot of people are high on Oak Ridge now. I get that.

To me, though, MT's win didn't prove they were better. A lot of things had to fall into place for them to beat Folsom. I don't think the Bulldogs would lose to them more than 3 times in 10 games. I also don't think they lose to Oak Ridge in any higher of a percentage. Keep in mind that the Trojans only beat Turlock by 10 3 weeks ago.

Cal, did you see the MT/Folsom game? I'm pretty sure it was the stars falling into the right place for every play of this game. I'd say it would be closer to Folsom winning 9/10 times.

 

[dcpanda]

Not exactly. When the Open Division still had the regional game, Serra played Del Oro in D-I (2013). The Eagles took home that game.

Good knowledge right there.

 

[Cal 14]

Cal, did you see the MT/Folsom game? I'm pretty sure it was the stars falling into the right place for every play of this game. I'd say it would be closer to Folsom winning 9/10 times.

I saw a bunch of it. MT executed in a number of key moments. I'm not sure you could count on that very often. I wouldn't disagree with your 9/10 assessment.

People have a tendency to always think that the better team wins and that's just not the case. If one were to look at the entire body of work, I'm not sure it's very close.

It is funny though... Folsom struggles in two games and everyone goes crazy. Liberty struggles for a half-season and just about everyone completely ignores that. There's absolutely no way that Pittsburg should ever be in the same vicinity as Folsom, much less ranked higher.