Finally the game is here....
Tomorrow 3PM PST
http://dmvstream.com/2017/02/14/201...championship-to-stream-live-at-dmvstream-com/
Tomorrow 3PM PST
http://dmvstream.com/2017/02/14/201...championship-to-stream-live-at-dmvstream-com/
Paul Vi vs St Johns...best game of the year...free webcast
- Thread starter jazzpt55
- Start date
End of 1 SJ 15 PVI 14
PVI amazing Tenn, ND and UCONN commits
Mutombo looks like she is 6' 5"
Half PV1 30 SJ 27
End of 3 SJ 44 PVI 37...Huge QTR for SJ
Final SJ 58 PVI 52
Clay... Come on man...
St John's is the number one team in the nation....
SJ played without it's starting PG
PVI amazing Tenn, ND and UCONN commits
Mutombo looks like she is 6' 5"
Half PV1 30 SJ 27
End of 3 SJ 44 PVI 37...Huge QTR for SJ
Final SJ 58 PVI 52
Clay... Come on man...
St John's is the number one team in the nation....
SJ played without it's starting PG
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I think St. Johns may have proved there as good or better than Paul VI. Not sure that will make them the number 1 team in the nation. I probably would award that to several teams over both Paul and St. Johns depending on how their season's end. But St. Johns may indeed be a top 5 team. Congratulations for beating your cross town rivals 2 of 3 times.
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Several teams can beat St John's today???
Who are these several teams?
I thought you had ...a litmus test....
A team had to go to their Nike TOC...to qualify...
At a minimum. ...
Paul VI has 9 D1 players....including a UConn, Tennessee and ND commit...
Who else can beat that team 2 out of 3 times...
Please tell me what team can do that???
Who are these several teams?
I thought you had ...a litmus test....
A team had to go to their Nike TOC...to qualify...
At a minimum. ...
Paul VI has 9 D1 players....including a UConn, Tennessee and ND commit...
Who else can beat that team 2 out of 3 times...
Please tell me what team can do that???
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A team had to go to their Nike TOC...to qualify...
I think that helps. Then you take into account how each team did at the TOC. I will re-post my top ten of a few weeks ago just for a reference. Then we take into account the level of challenge each team has had during the season up to that point. And then what level of difficulty they finished the season on to include the challenge of their state championship. If your a team like Paul VI who looks great on paper but was never really tested I would'n't place you at #1 or even in the top 5 just because you beat a very good cross town rival and otherwise weren't challenged. Because after all what team can't get up for 1 or 2 games at home or nearby, against a familiar opponent, with known refs, while sleeping in your own bed the night before? Not to say both PaulVI and St. John's aren't good teams because they do seem to be capable of playing with anyone in the nation. To answer your questions... "who are these several teams" ? "Who else can beat that team 2 of 3 times"? I think the answer would be found in several of the teams in the top 10 list below.
My top ten list. As of 1/24/17. Based on Body of work, not speculation or necessarily who I think is best. Because that is speculating, not as objective, and I could be playing favorites or guessing wrong. (subject to change as games are played each week). Yes, you can fall in the rankings without losing based on your SOS in comparison to others.
Note: This list has not been updated since 1/24/17
1. Miami CD 22-1 (Only loss in the TOC Championship to the TOC champions and #1 as a result at the time CW.
2. Grandview Co. 13-1 (Only loss to Miami CD in OT @TOC, beat former #1 going into TOC Mitty
3.Centennial, Nv. 20-2 (loss to Paul VI, split with CW winning the most recent).
4.Clovis West 18-2 Beat Miami CD in the TOC Championship #1 as a result at the time, split w/Centennial
5.St. John's, D.C. 16-1 Beat Mitty at TOC 71-53 Loss CW at TOC 75-58
6. Mitty 14-2 Loss to Grandview at TOC, beat CW IN OT BY 1,loss to St. John's
7. Paul VI 17-1 beat Centennial @home early in season. Loss game w/ St. John's 1/24.
8. Riverdale TN, 17-0 Beat Norcross. Schedule is soft and suspect in ranking them as a result.
9. Seton, AZ. 20-3 Beat Mesquite & LBP, loss to Grandview 44-40 and loss Centennial 45-42 @TOC
10. Mesquite, AZ. 22-1 Loss to Seton AZ @ TOC beat MD, Christ the King, I. Word @TOC
On the bubble....St. Frances Ga. 19-3, Male 17-1, Monacan 15-0, St. Frances, MD. 18-0, Duncanville TX. 27-2, and others. Perhaps I will expand on the list to 20 or 25 teams in the future.
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I don't like speculation. But if given the chance I'm sure several teams could beat their bitter rivals at home or nearby 2 of 3 times. It wouldn't matter if they had 5 UConn committed players because that wouldn't automatically mean they would be able to play well together as a team. If that was automatic then Paul would have beaten St. Johns all 3 times by over 40 points.
And you won't see one from me because I don't get into speculation. I will say had they come out to the TOC they would have proven just how good they were or were not. Now losing two of three to a cross town rival at home or nearby just proves their very beatable indeed.
St. John's on the other hand may indeed have a legitimate claim at the top prize at the season's end in my book. But I will have to look closer into what all the top teams have done at that time.
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Not sure. Clay has his own formula and it works as he sees fit. That is why there are so many different polls. It's up to the individual to use their own brain to determine which is most accurate to them. Based on the many variables that apply such as body of work or challenge and how a team responds to it? Did they take on the nations toughest tournaments or intentionally or accidentally dodge them? And how did the team end the season? Whether they actually continued to progress or not? How tough was their state championship? Best undefeated team? Best on paper? Most D1 committed players? Best coached? Best 1 loss team? Best two loss team etc.... Best overall team regardless to the number of losses?
Who the best is will always be an opinion. It will be less of an opinion with a national playoff system. Until they get a national playoff system the TOC and Iolani tournaments and how difficult the team's state championship is to win, the challenge and all things taken into consideration will be the best determining factor IMO.
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What would be your overall criteria used for determining Monacan or Riverdale should be ranked higher than say CW, MCD, Mitty, Grandview, Centennial, St. John's, LBP, and PaulVI ? All of which would probably be ranked higher than those two on my system at this point. Is that just based on the team's going undefeated whether challenged or not? Is there any monetary gain for a team to be ranked #1 in the nation for that team or anyone else?
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I think the difference is that we give a lot of credit to the Myrtle Beach tournament, which had a lot of good East Coast teams, including Norcross -- and Monacan won that event.
They also beat National Christian Academy, a very strong team that could wind up back in the national rankings, and Winder-Barrow, which had Olivia Nelson-Ododa at that time (she was hurt later on and thus Winder-Barrow struggled).
Forest Trail is another good win over a team just outside the national rankings, and so there is quality on the schedule. It's not Monacan's fault that Virginia is down this year, but they took care of business there.
The case for Monacan:
1) They are unbeaten against a good schedule
2) They played and won an elite tournament
3) They scheduled quality out of state opponents and beat them
4) They have arguably the best player in the country in Megan Walker
You can say they should have been at the TOC, but not every school has the financial ability to travel across the country, so they did the next best thing.
The difference between Monacan and the other teams is that they haven't lost. Your ranking order makes sense, but a case could be made that Clovis West should be No. 1 for you since they beat MCD, and then Mitty could claim they beat Clovis West, etc. Again, your order is fine, but reasonable people could disagree.
Monacan played the best schedule they could, challenged themselves, and no one beat them.
They also beat National Christian Academy, a very strong team that could wind up back in the national rankings, and Winder-Barrow, which had Olivia Nelson-Ododa at that time (she was hurt later on and thus Winder-Barrow struggled).
Forest Trail is another good win over a team just outside the national rankings, and so there is quality on the schedule. It's not Monacan's fault that Virginia is down this year, but they took care of business there.
The case for Monacan:
1) They are unbeaten against a good schedule
2) They played and won an elite tournament
3) They scheduled quality out of state opponents and beat them
4) They have arguably the best player in the country in Megan Walker
You can say they should have been at the TOC, but not every school has the financial ability to travel across the country, so they did the next best thing.
The difference between Monacan and the other teams is that they haven't lost. Your ranking order makes sense, but a case could be made that Clovis West should be No. 1 for you since they beat MCD, and then Mitty could claim they beat Clovis West, etc. Again, your order is fine, but reasonable people could disagree.
Monacan played the best schedule they could, challenged themselves, and no one beat them.
I only ranked MCD #1 at the time because at that time CW had picked up the 2nd loss. But I still placed CW very high on the list. And because CW was still high on the list and MCD's only loss was to CW in the TOC Championship game they were worthy at that time. But as I have said I allow for movement in my ranking system. And a team that was #1 and idle during the time the #2 team played and was impressive #2 could take the top slot even if #1 didn't lose. But #1 could gain #1 back when they resume play but I would take into account who took on the higher ranked teams and the greater challenge.
Between you and I, CW is in my opinion a better team by quite a bit than MCD. But my personal opinion could be wrong. Because believe it or not my opinion is not always correct. Plus fact is the best team doesn't always win. Things happen. But by seasons end, if CW finishes strong, MCD would be moved out of the top slot by not only CW, but any other top team that finish the season winning more impressively in tougher challenges than MCD. But I don't rank teams on who I think has the better team or who I know has more D1 COMMITTED PLAYERS. I rank them primarily off strength of schedule, amount of challenge, and how they handled and bounced back from the challenges. So you can lose more than 2 games and based on your BOW against other top teams BOW you could finish the season number 1 on my list even with 2 or 3 loses and perhaps more depending on the year and others BOW in the top 10.
Myrtle Beach Tournament? I don't see any top teams showing up there.
Norcross is not a top 20 team in the nation on my list. And neither are the other teams you listed as reasons to place Monocan #1 in the nation. So I have a hard time accepting Monocan as the #10 in the nation. Placing them or Riverdale when taking B.O.W. into account #1 is pretty much not even in the discussion for my list.
They would most likely be very high if not #1 on my " best undefeated team list". But that wouldn't have to take into account as much of a challenge and strong BOW to determine that list.
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Everyone has their own system, and as long as they are internally consistent, they're worth looking at.
Norcross has played and beaten a lot of good teams (Homewood-Flossmoor, McEachern, White Station, Lake Highland Prep, Wesleyan) and its two losses (to Monacan and Riverdale) are "good" ones. But a case could be made they are ranked too high, as it could for other teams using other systems.
Here's another way to think about it, but for reasons I'll explain, probably not the best method: Gather the top 16 teams in the country and play a tournament and see who's better. The reason that doesn't work for me is injury.
For example, if you put SMS in that tournament in three weeks, they might win it -- but they've lost to Lincoln of Stockton, and should a national champion have a loss like that (no offense, Chris)? Or what about St. John's College without Beverly for four tough games? If they go 0-4, do you nullify the results, just as you could set aside several SMS losses for the same reason?
Norcross has played and beaten a lot of good teams (Homewood-Flossmoor, McEachern, White Station, Lake Highland Prep, Wesleyan) and its two losses (to Monacan and Riverdale) are "good" ones. But a case could be made they are ranked too high, as it could for other teams using other systems.
Here's another way to think about it, but for reasons I'll explain, probably not the best method: Gather the top 16 teams in the country and play a tournament and see who's better. The reason that doesn't work for me is injury.
For example, if you put SMS in that tournament in three weeks, they might win it -- but they've lost to Lincoln of Stockton, and should a national champion have a loss like that (no offense, Chris)? Or what about St. John's College without Beverly for four tough games? If they go 0-4, do you nullify the results, just as you could set aside several SMS losses for the same reason?
No, injuries are a part of the game. You do however take them into account. And again, the best thing to do is judge the entire B.O.W. of each top team at the close of the season. You don't crown a champion beforehand. Especially one who clearly took an easier path to victory.
Here is a better way to look at it....
Larry Holmes beat an old Ali. He also may have ended his career with a better record than Ali. And Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield had great careers and perhaps less losses than Ali. But in my book it isn't even close to who the greatest heavy weight of all times was. That is because I considered everything. Not just who had the easiest challenge and may have looked the best record wise, or on paper.
You see before there was just CNN AKA Fox. Or Espn and USA Today.
Welcome in the new perspective. Because boy..... is one truly needed IMO.
Not to take the other perspectives away. But to offer more than just the same ole tired and predictable perspectives.
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Clay,
Does any team in the nation have 9 D1s
And 3 super majors Tenn, ND and Uconn..
And a National COY for their last two years.. Talent wise PVI is the UCONN of
HS girls BB....seems people don't get that
Who right now could beat UCONN 2 out of 3 times this year???
Does any team in the nation have 9 D1s
And 3 super majors Tenn, ND and Uconn..
And a National COY for their last two years.. Talent wise PVI is the UCONN of
HS girls BB....seems people don't get that
Who right now could beat UCONN 2 out of 3 times this year???
I'm not saying they don't have chemistry. I know very little about them. I was saying any team loaded with so call stars doesn't mean their chemistry is as good or better than all teams with less so call star players. That is why teams with a lot of stars still often times get upset by teams with less. It is also why the best way to determine who's best is by playing the tough games and tough tournaments, and letting the chips fall where they may. Not by dodging the tough games, teams, and tournaments, just to go undefeated.
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Don't forget talent. If the talent gap is large enough, chemistry doesn't matter.
That is true 95% of the time. But we have all seen the best team lose from time to time. And we have all seen very talented teams like SMB with two McDonald All Americans under achieve. Because the best talent in the world still has to know how and want to play well together. And hope they don't ( get out coached) or come along during a Mariya Moore era (Minyon too) LOL........
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