with the season winding down any predictions on which teams within PCAL should get bumped up or down? Also, if there is any weight behind a possible merger with SCVAL?
PCAL League realignments ?
- Thread starter 831ccschamp
- Start date
Gabilan:
Salinas
Hollister
Palma
Aptos
Alvarez
MVC
Mission:
Carmel
Christopher
Alisal
Seaside
Soquel
Santa Cruz
Soledad
Monterey
Cypress:
Gonzales
King City
Scotts Valley
SLV
North Salinas
Watsonville
North County
Gilroy
Santa Lucia:
Pacific Grove
Harbor
Marina
Greenfield
Stevenson
Rancho San Juan
Pajaro Valley
St Francis
Salinas
Hollister
Palma
Aptos
Alvarez
MVC
Mission:
Carmel
Christopher
Alisal
Seaside
Soquel
Santa Cruz
Soledad
Monterey
Cypress:
Gonzales
King City
Scotts Valley
SLV
North Salinas
Watsonville
North County
Gilroy
Santa Lucia:
Pacific Grove
Harbor
Marina
Greenfield
Stevenson
Rancho San Juan
Pajaro Valley
St Francis
Gabilan:
Salinas
Palma
Aptos
Hollister
Carmel
Alvarez
Mission:
MVC
Alisal
Gilroy
Christoper
Soledad
Monterey
Seaside
Santa Cruz
Cypress:
Gonzales
NMC
King City
Scotts Valley
North Salinas
Soquel
SLV
Pacific Grove
Santa Lucia:
RLS
Rancho San Juan
St. Francis
Watsonville
Greenfield
Harbor
Pajaro Valley
Marina
Salinas
Palma
Aptos
Hollister
Carmel
Alvarez
Mission:
MVC
Alisal
Gilroy
Christoper
Soledad
Monterey
Seaside
Santa Cruz
Cypress:
Gonzales
NMC
King City
Scotts Valley
North Salinas
Soquel
SLV
Pacific Grove
Santa Lucia:
RLS
Rancho San Juan
St. Francis
Watsonville
Greenfield
Harbor
Pajaro Valley
Marina
a merger needs to happen. The Monterey Peninsula football has become a joke. There is too big of a gap in talent. Forcing some of these teams to play each other doesn’t do anyone any good. Palma Salinas Hollister and Aptos should want to play better teams too.
I think a 6 team gabilan will solve that problem. They can schedule against PAL schools or schools in the 805
Mission and cypress will be competitive leagues and the Santa Lucia will be good for the rebuilding teams.
Seem to recall John Devine last year claiming Carmel was #1 in the entire PCAL. Now he’s crying that they don’t ever belong in the Gab.
Which is it? It can’t be both.
5th team and 6th can probably be a Alvarez carmel or mvc. 5-5 can get you if you play in the gabilan. Alvarez missed the cut by not that much
I’m sure that was a simple thought based on Carmel beating SHS last year. I’m not a fan of Devine so I won’t go further into his thoughts.
I just want to see good football. I want to see some of these top players tested by better competition. I’ve heard people crying about certain players not getting recruited and it makes it difficult to get looks when you are playing against teams that would struggle against JV teams. I come from the cloth of better competition makes better teams.
Pretty dumb to call the Monterey Peninsula a “joke” because they are experiencing a widening gap in talent like almost every other area.
The Gab should not go to 6 teams. Why? This set up showed its value. First off, probably take Gilroy aside. The schools have to do a better job of getting bad teams out of that league. But while Palma and Salinas were at the top, you had plenty of intrigue throughout the league. Hollister beat Aptos only to lose to Carmel. Carmel could have also beat Aptos if it wasn't for a missed field goal and in turn got beat by a tough Alvarez group. I think you'd get even more excitement if you swapped out the two Gilroy schools and brought back in MVC. Another change that would be beneficial is move some of the games around so Carmel doesn't have a month straight of the big 4 schools.
cliff notes as to the “why”:
- fewer schools forced to the big 4
- more flexibility for the big 4 when it comes to their schedule; more opportunities to for the big 4 to schedule up, and more opportunities for the other two schools to “schedule down” to balance out the tough league games
- there would be literally nothing stopping the gab schools from scheduling any local teams not in their league that they want to play.
There is literally no good reason to keep the Gabilan at 8 schools. Really bad move decision that everybody is hoping is changed this offseason.
Sorry I guess I should have clarified my comment. My reference was more about their organization of leagues to make fair competition. It’s impossible to do and teams are being sacrificed.
CCS Realignment committee has not met, I believe it is about a 2 year process for a merger, so there will be no merger of any leagues for the 2020 season.
If Gabilan goes to 6, and I believe it will, the only question is who goes/stays up. If you go strictly by talent then MVC and Carmel are probably the 2 logical choices. I believe that is your top 6 in next years pre-season rankings.
If you look at JV programs and number of kids a program, than you should probably along with competitive consider Alvarez, Motnerey and Christopher. Theses programs are form larger schools and they have a lot of kids in the program.
Because they realign every year, they are just looking at that years varsity more than the entire program, So Carmel stays up.
Gabilan:
Salinas
Palma
Aptos
Hollister
Carmel
MVC
Mission:
Alvarez
Alisal
Soquel
Christoper
Soledad
Monterey
Seaside
Santa Cruz
Cypress:
Gilroy
Gonzales
NMC
King City
Scotts Valley
North Salinas
SLV
Watsonville
Santa Lucia:
RLS
Pacific Grove
Rancho San Juan
St. Francis
Greenfield
Harbor
Pajaro Valley
Marina
If Gabilan goes to 6, and I believe it will, the only question is who goes/stays up. If you go strictly by talent then MVC and Carmel are probably the 2 logical choices. I believe that is your top 6 in next years pre-season rankings.
If you look at JV programs and number of kids a program, than you should probably along with competitive consider Alvarez, Motnerey and Christopher. Theses programs are form larger schools and they have a lot of kids in the program.
Because they realign every year, they are just looking at that years varsity more than the entire program, So Carmel stays up.
Gabilan:
Salinas
Palma
Aptos
Hollister
Carmel
MVC
Mission:
Alvarez
Alisal
Soquel
Christoper
Soledad
Monterey
Seaside
Santa Cruz
Cypress:
Gilroy
Gonzales
NMC
King City
Scotts Valley
North Salinas
SLV
Watsonville
Santa Lucia:
RLS
Pacific Grove
Rancho San Juan
St. Francis
Greenfield
Harbor
Pajaro Valley
Marina
Slightly disappointed you didn’t have RLS in the Gabilan !
I still think they go 5X6 as far as divisions go. I don’t see the benefit of doing a 6-team gab and then 8 for the rest. Just move one of Mission’s bids to the bottom league.
Speed looks like you may win. According to John Devine of the Monterey Herald the PCAL sub Committee has proposed 5 divisions of six team each.
https://www.montereyherald.com/2019/11/20/radical-realignment-could-be-coming-in-football/
The proposed divsions are as followed:
Gabilan "A" 4 Guaranteed playoffs
Aptos
Alvarez
Christopher
Hollister
Palma
Salinas
Mission "B"(2?Playoffs)
Alisal
Gilroy
Monterey
Monte Vista
Seaside
Soledad
Cypress "B" (1? Playoff)
Carmel
Gonzales
King City
North Salinas
Soquel
Santa Cruz
Santa Lucia "C" (1? Playoff)
North Monterey County
Pacific Grove
Rancho San Juan
Scott's valley
San Lorenzo Valley
Watsonville
Arroyo "C" (1?Playoff)
Greenfield
Harbor
Marina
Pajaro Valley
RLS
St. Francis CC
This is what Devine said was being proposed. Nothing is set. First glance it is not horrible. But, no way Carmel Drops 2 divisions. I would switch them with Gilroy. Also Rancho San Juan should probably be in Arroyo (first year playing varsity) switch them with RLS or St. Francis.
As far as playoffs, not sure if the PCAL can get another automatic CCS birth or if they will have to drop the 3rd mission spot to the Arroyo.
I think if you swap Carmel and Gilroy this looks pretty good.
Zero chance that proposal would pass if the bottom league doesn’t get an auto bid. A division with no auto bid is a complete non-starter.
In any event, a 6 team Gab would afford more intersection, and league competition which would make the season more interesting for both the players and fans.
I see the first proposal has been shared, who is in charge here? I get it that no matter what, somebody is going to be pissed off. But after this last season Carmel is going to drop down to a third division? After beating Hollister, being neck and neck with Aptos, and still being alive in the CCS playoffs.. They should instead be paired up with King City, Gonzales and two others from the Cypress along with winless North Salinas. HAHA what is Carmel on the in charge of this? This is idiodic. If you want to argue they don't belong in the A league that is fine but they are better served to be up there than Christopher. In the end you have a handful of teams all in the same boat and no way of really working it out that has worked in the past.
And this is what is the biggest problem is for this league. Who is in charge? Where you at Commish? What is the criteria for any of this. If there is going to be massive changes and a league formed why is it a handful of coaches pulling the strings. I know one of the posts likes to use rankings and show where everything aligns. Shouldn't that be part of it? Feels like every year it's simply who yells the loudest, or who has the most friends or support. No direction from the top of the PCAL and it shows with the way decisions have been made.
Lastly, and I don't know because I haven't looked at any of this, but would adding a league hurt more local teams when it comes to playoffs? Is the Gab going to still get 4 automatics? That would be 66% of the league. They'd also be playing two games with B league teams which would lower them all at least 1 point come playoff time.
And this is what is the biggest problem is for this league. Who is in charge? Where you at Commish? What is the criteria for any of this. If there is going to be massive changes and a league formed why is it a handful of coaches pulling the strings. I know one of the posts likes to use rankings and show where everything aligns. Shouldn't that be part of it? Feels like every year it's simply who yells the loudest, or who has the most friends or support. No direction from the top of the PCAL and it shows with the way decisions have been made.
Lastly, and I don't know because I haven't looked at any of this, but would adding a league hurt more local teams when it comes to playoffs? Is the Gab going to still get 4 automatics? That would be 66% of the league. They'd also be playing two games with B league teams which would lower them all at least 1 point come playoff time.
Not only do these moves not make sense, if they actually happen, but moving Seaside back up and Carmel down 2 levels really casts doubt on last year's decisions to move Seaside down and Carmel to the Gab. Seriously?
The Carmel debate is always interesting. I don’t think there will ever be a right answer for where they belong in an equity league. They are losing a lot of talent in the skill positions. Not sure they will be able to hang with the Gab next year.
The haters will put Carmel in the Gabilan next year. What was the vote last year? 25 to 2?
But Carmel finished where they did this year because of their offense. Through 11 games they were in a virtual tie with Salinas as the Gabilan's best offense - 37.1 points per game. And in the Gabilan only Christopher had a worse defense. Carmel gave up 32.7 points per game. (Salinas, Palma, Aptos and Hollister all gave up around 22) Next year Carmel loses arguably the second best QB in the area and one of the best running backs in the area to graduation. With realistically nothing in the wings to replace them. Byrne is an athlete but with very little QB experience. Christofolo can play RB or receiver but not both at the same time and wherever he is not is weak. The JV team played just 5 games this year, forfeiting two because of lack of players. They (Carmel's soph-frosh JV team) lost badly to all-freshmen teams from Palma, Salinas and Aptos. They beat RLS and Greenfield. So no signs that the defense will get any better and the offense cannot be as good as they were this year.
Should they drop 2 levels? Why not? Take two of the automatic qualifiers from the Gabilan and give one to the Arroyo Division and one to the Cypress. The Gabilan does not need 4 AQ's...for the past many years 5 teams have qualified for the play-offs simply on points. So 5 Gabilan teams will still qualify for the play-offs...2 as AQ and 3 on points. Then with the Mission and Cypress both having 2 AQ's make one of them for larger schools and one for smaller schools. No more "senior" B league and "junior" B league. Two B leagues made up of big schools and small schools. Put MVC in the Cypress and North Salinas in the Mission.
Don't look at Carmel's move to Cypress as a 2 level drop. They are only going to the smaller school B league. Only team I feel bad for is Christopher in the Gabilan. Maybe Alsial should move up and Christopher to the Mission. Or even MVC to the Gabilan and put the 2 top private schools in the Gabilan.
But when all is said and done, I'll bet my small ranch that Carmel will end up in the Gabilan in 2020, and stay there until they have spent at least two years at the bottom of the Gabilan.
But Carmel finished where they did this year because of their offense. Through 11 games they were in a virtual tie with Salinas as the Gabilan's best offense - 37.1 points per game. And in the Gabilan only Christopher had a worse defense. Carmel gave up 32.7 points per game. (Salinas, Palma, Aptos and Hollister all gave up around 22) Next year Carmel loses arguably the second best QB in the area and one of the best running backs in the area to graduation. With realistically nothing in the wings to replace them. Byrne is an athlete but with very little QB experience. Christofolo can play RB or receiver but not both at the same time and wherever he is not is weak. The JV team played just 5 games this year, forfeiting two because of lack of players. They (Carmel's soph-frosh JV team) lost badly to all-freshmen teams from Palma, Salinas and Aptos. They beat RLS and Greenfield. So no signs that the defense will get any better and the offense cannot be as good as they were this year.
Should they drop 2 levels? Why not? Take two of the automatic qualifiers from the Gabilan and give one to the Arroyo Division and one to the Cypress. The Gabilan does not need 4 AQ's...for the past many years 5 teams have qualified for the play-offs simply on points. So 5 Gabilan teams will still qualify for the play-offs...2 as AQ and 3 on points. Then with the Mission and Cypress both having 2 AQ's make one of them for larger schools and one for smaller schools. No more "senior" B league and "junior" B league. Two B leagues made up of big schools and small schools. Put MVC in the Cypress and North Salinas in the Mission.
Don't look at Carmel's move to Cypress as a 2 level drop. They are only going to the smaller school B league. Only team I feel bad for is Christopher in the Gabilan. Maybe Alsial should move up and Christopher to the Mission. Or even MVC to the Gabilan and put the 2 top private schools in the Gabilan.
But when all is said and done, I'll bet my small ranch that Carmel will end up in the Gabilan in 2020, and stay there until they have spent at least two years at the bottom of the Gabilan.
With the new format of cross over games it’s perfect for Carmel to be in the mission. MVC can pull from kids from 3-4 counties they should be in the gab.
If we are just going off performance Carmel should absolutely be in the Gab. Would I be mad if a bunch of whiny, crybaby Carmel fans cause them to be moved down two divisions? Not really. But I do find the whining pretty funny.
And it most definitely would be a TWO division drop.
Carmel should be in the second level next year. Moving down two gives them an almost guaranteed championship and one level down gives them a little more competition and others in the league. If they get beat in the second toughest division then they can move down, No reason to move them two leagues down unless they don't have enough turnout. If they can get 35-40 varsity players level two should be fine
Carmel fan: We want to be in a division with weaker teams. We also want to have that division have more automatic playoff bids. We also want to avoid better competition in the playoffs. Basically, we want as easy of a path as possible.
With the ranking component of play off criteria Carmel blowing out teams is going to put them in division 4 or higher. After tonight’s shalacking against Branham they’ll regret it. They only stand a chance in division 5.
So..... because Carmel lost big to Branham in 2019 that is proof that they will never be able to compete at a level higher then Division 5?
So the PCAL cant seem to figure this thing out. John Devine is tweeting that the voted down the 5 division format. Looking at keeping it at 4.
https://twitter.com/JohnJDevine
Based on this year's playoff's, does it really matter? Only 3 team got to the second round, and only Santa Cruz beyond that.
https://twitter.com/JohnJDevine
Based on this year's playoff's, does it really matter? Only 3 team got to the second round, and only Santa Cruz beyond that.
4 divisions instead of 5 let's you know the old guard is still in control. I've said it before and I will say it again. Carmel stays in the Gabilan. And will stay there for two more seasons. Even if they end up at the bottom of the Gabilan in 2020. Gilroy moves down to the Mission. MVC moves up to the Gabilan. (I know it seems like Seaside should move up, but I think they are tired of the negative press they get from Coach Avila every time his team is in the Gabilan.) Rancho San Juan goes into the Santa Lucia. And I wouldn't put it past them to move PG up to the Cypress and SLV or Watsonville moves down. Finally Santa Cruz goes up and NS goes down.
