Possible Open Teams

[basketba11]

Is it too early to predict the Open Teams yet? We are about halfway through season and have seen some outcomes already that will impact the top seeds for Open Division. Here are the Top 10 NorCal rankings as of today, the Open teams will most likely be the 6 or 8 from this group:
1. Mitty (11-3)
2. Bishop O'Dowd (8-4)
3. St. Mary's, Stockton (8-4)
4. St. Joseph (8-3)
5. Salesian (12-2)
6. Miramonte (14-2)
7. Cardinal Newman (15-2)
8. Menlo (11-1)
9. Pinewood (10-1)
10. Antelope (13-2)

 

[LBJ6]

Pretty good year to go with 8 open teams. 7 private powers and miramonte.

 

[GBBall4L]

Is it too early to predict the Open Teams yet? We are about halfway through season and have seen some outcomes already that will impact the top seeds for Open Division. Here are the Top 10 NorCal rankings as of today, the Open teams will most likely be the 6 or 8 from this group:
1. Mitty (11-3)
2. Bishop O'Dowd (8-4)
3. St. Mary's, Stockton (8-4)
4. St. Joseph (8-3)
5. Salesian (12-2)
6. Miramonte (14-2)
7. Cardinal Newman (15-2)
8. Menlo (11-1)
9. Pinewood (10-1)
10. Antelope (13-2)

Antelope lost to Oakland Tech so them being in the Top 10 for Norcal is questionable. No offense to Oakland Tech as they play hard and have some good players but I still see them at the D3,D4 level. But, that loss to Oakland Tech Looks bad for them.

 

[observer22]

Is it too early to predict the Open Teams yet? We are about halfway through season and have seen some outcomes already that will impact the top seeds for Open Division. Here are the Top 10 NorCal rankings as of today, the Open teams will most likely be the 6 or 8 from this group:
1. Mitty (11-3)
2. Bishop O'Dowd (8-4)
3. St. Mary's, Stockton (8-4)
4. St. Joseph (8-3)
5. Salesian (12-2)
6. Miramonte (14-2)
7. Cardinal Newman (15-2)
8. Menlo (11-1)
9. Pinewood (10-1)
10. Antelope (13-2)

I think the max from any one section is still 4 teams, so one of those 5 NCS teams in the top 7 will drop to D1.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Is it too early to predict the Open Teams yet? We are about halfway through season and have seen some outcomes already that will impact the top seeds for Open Division. Here are the Top 10 NorCal rankings as of today, the Open teams will most likely be the 6 or 8 from this group:
1. Mitty (11-3)
2. Bishop O'Dowd (8-4)
3. St. Mary's, Stockton (8-4)
4. St. Joseph (8-3)
5. Salesian (12-2)
6. Miramonte (14-2)
7. Cardinal Newman (15-2)
8. Menlo (11-1)
9. Pinewood (10-1)
10. Antelope (13-2)

A lot has to do with how they do in the NCS open championship so far.
NCS
BOD
SJND
MM
Salesian
Cardinal Newman
Heritage
8?

Out of those 7, I can see any of the top 4 making open. it's still a long season and who knows where antelope and PW end.

 

[observer22]

A lot has to do with how they do in the NCS open championship so far.
NCS
BOD
SJND
MM
Salesian
Cardinal Newman
Heritage
8?

Out of those 7, I can see any of the top 4 making open. it's still a long season and who knows where antelope and PW end.

There are only 6 listed, and I think the NCS Open is only taking 6. Maybe the 4 semi finalists, which wold be the top 2 seeds and the winners of 3 vs 6 & 4 vs 5?

 

[CW Golden Eagles]

I think the max from any one section is still 4 teams, so one of those 5 NCS teams in the top 7 will drop to D1.

They took the cap off the sections.

 

[LBJ6]

They took the cap off the sections.

Does clovis west go south for norcal or does that vary by the year?

 

[basketba11]

Antelope lost to Oakland Tech so them being in the Top 10 for Norcal is questionable. No offense to Oakland Tech as they play hard and have some good players but I still see them at the D3,D4 level. But, that loss to Oakland Tech Looks bad for them.

Antelope and Cardinal Newman play each other in couple of weeks, the winner of this game could determine an Open seed.

 

[basketba11]

Pinewood is still very much in the mix. If they beat Menlo the 2nd time around, then they play Salesian. And a very interesting last game of the season against Miramonte could be huge for determining who is in and out.

 

[straightline50]

San Joaquin 2 teams, CCS 2 teams, NCS 2-4 Teams depending on the number of the bracket. St. Mary's, Antelope, McClatchy, Mitty, Menlo, Pinewood, Miramonte, St Joseph, Salesian, Bishop O'Dowd, Cardinal Newman and Heritage. 12 teams with 6-8 spots open.

 

[CW Golden Eagles]

Does clovis west go south for norcal or does that vary by the year?

We’ve been told year to year we could go either way. It’s tough when everyone but our section has an idea of the landscape but we literally won’t know until brackets are released.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

We’ve been told year to year we could go either way. It’s tough when everyone but our section has an idea of the landscape but we literally won’t know until brackets are released.

it does really suck for you guys having to be on the fence every year. I've always thought it depends on how competitive (or lack there of) the north is but no evidence to support that. If you had your pick, would you go North or South?

 

[ClayK]

Everyone's on the fence for NorCal Division placement as well ... and really, you can't scout all the possible teams you're going to play, so from my limited perspective, it's more about travel than anything else. SoCal Open, NorCal Open, you have to go play really good teams and beat them, and if you do, you draw a Mitty or La Jolla Country Day.

The road is hard either way and there's not much you can do to prepare until you see the seedings.

As for the number of teams, my guess would be that unless the Central comes north, NorCal puts six in the Open to SoCal's eight to help balance the competition a little. Moving two teams down a division, from one through five, gives NorCal teams a little better shot at a state title.

With six, it would make sense to take two from each section ... the Open winners from CCS and NCS, and the top two D-1 in SJS. If the Central winner comes north, give Mitty a first-round bye.

 

[basketba11]

Everyone's on the fence for NorCal Division placement as well ... and really, you can't scout all the possible teams you're going to play, so from my limited perspective, it's more about travel than anything else. SoCal Open, NorCal Open, you have to go play really good teams and beat them, and if you do, you draw a Mitty or La Jolla Country Day.

The road is hard either way and there's not much you can do to prepare until you see the seedings.

As for the number of teams, my guess would be that unless the Central comes north, NorCal puts six in the Open to SoCal's eight to help balance the competition a little. Moving two teams down a division, from one through five, gives NorCal teams a little better shot at a state title.

With six, it would make sense to take two from each section ... the Open winners from CCS and NCS, and the top two D-1 in SJS. If the Central winner comes north, give Mitty a first-round bye.

So with that formula of 6 right now, if you would take just the top 6 ranking wise, the top 2 from CCS, NCS and SJS would be:
1. Mitty (11-3) CCS 1
2. Bishop O'Dowd (8-4) NCS 1
3. St. Mary's, Stockton (8-4) SJS 1
4. St. Joseph (8-3) NCS 2
8. Menlo (11-1) CCS 2
10. Antelope (13-2) SJS 2

 

[northbaybbguru]

Or maybe if they go six with Central Section included it would look like:

CCS 2 (Open final 2)
NCS 2 (Open final 2)
SJ D1 winner.
Central Section top team

To me that would be a good NorCal Open.
And all the teams earn their way in so no committee BS.

 

[ClayK]

I've heard SJS is planning to add an Open Division, which would then make it very simple: Open finalists from SJS, NCS and CCS with room for Northern, SF, Oak if needed. And Central could be added as well.

For me, I'd rather have it decided on the floor than by committee, and though there's risk that the third place Open team in SJS, say, is better than the NCS second place team, it still makes more sense to me to have it clear from the start who's going and who isn't.

 

[CW Golden Eagles]

it does really suck for you guys having to be on the fence every year. I've always thought it depends on how competitive (or lack there of) the north is but no evidence to support that. If you had your pick, would you go North or South?

I'm really fine with whatever...but just puts us at a disadvantage not knowing--especially when we are the only section in limbo. Hard to schedule for the following year, scout, etc when you could literally go anywhere in the state. The other sections know who they have to beat/go through, who to schedule, what to prepare for. We'll just go out and do our best with wherever they put us.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

I'm really fine with whatever...but just puts us at a disadvantage not knowing--especially when we are the only section in limbo. Hard to schedule for the following year, scout, etc when you could literally go anywhere in the state. The other sections know who they have to beat/go through, who to schedule, what to prepare for. We'll just go out and do our best with wherever they put us.

well you've done a great job since taking over the helm and I'm sure you'll continue to have a lot of success! best of luck coach

 

[ClayK]

So I do sympathize, but in the North Coast Section, we have similar uncertainty (as do other sections), so I don't think uncertainty should be a dealbreaker.

To begin with, we don't know if we'll be Open or in a division, so all the scheduling, etc., issues apply. And in NorCal, we know even less, so again, same issues. Back in the day, when it was all locked in, we could schedule to make sure we played the teams we needed to play for seeding, but it's all guesswork now, no matter where you are.

 

[OnBall8]

To begin with, we don't know if we'll be Open or in a division, so all the scheduling, etc., issues apply. And in NorCal, we know even less, so again, same issues. Back in the day, when it was all locked in, we could schedule to make sure we played the teams we needed to play for seeding, but it's all guesswork now, no matter where you are.

Oh please, you act like you don't already have an idea of who will be strong next year. You play a couple open contenders this year, was that hard to figure out?

Don't act like you're in the same boat as Craig and CW (and others in his section). He could be at the halfway point of a season and realize his team isn't SoCal Open worthy.. he then has to worry about all potential D1 teams in SoCal as well as having to worry about NorCal Open teams..

Now if you're trying to schedule meticulously so that you lose to just enough open teams so that you get home court for most or all of D1... then yea I could see your struggle.. but who does that???

 

[CW Golden Eagles]

well you've done a great job since taking over the helm and I'm sure you'll continue to have a lot of success! best of luck coach

Thank you very much. Really appreciate it!

 

[CW Golden Eagles]

So I do sympathize, but in the North Coast Section, we have similar uncertainty (as do other sections), so I don't think uncertainty should be a dealbreaker.

To begin with, we don't know if we'll be Open or in a division, so all the scheduling, etc., issues apply. And in NorCal, we know even less, so again, same issues. Back in the day, when it was all locked in, we could schedule to make sure we played the teams we needed to play for seeding, but it's all guesswork now, no matter where you are.

Come on Clay. That's not even close to the same. You have a very good idea who the top 6-10 teams are and can navigate that accordingly throughout the season. We have to look at the entire State when scheduling, prepping, etc. Huge disadvantage for the teams of our section. If you guys could be shipped to the South and not know that until the day the brackets are released, then you are in the same boat as our section. I'm not talking about whether we are D1 or Open. Everyone is in that boat. We have no idea who we would need to beat because we don't know where we will land. If we were locked into the South this year, we might be a bubble Open or even D1. If we were in the North this year, we have a very good shot at this point of Open and a fairly decent seed. Year to year the power changes but we can't plan ahead and schedule ahead or even go scout during the season the same as the other sections.

Has the NorCal top 10 changed much the past 6 months? Not much. Couple teams a little higher, couple teams a little lower. But you can navigate your schedule back in the spring with a very strong idea of who you'll need to beat to get to the level you need to get to. We don't have that luxury.

 

[straightline50]

I think it can be to an advantage as well. While Clovis West may not technically know where they are going, they have gone south every year but should they end up in the north I would think that favors them more than hurts them, especially if they get a home game or two.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Come on Clay. That's not even close to the same. You have a very good idea who the top 6-10 teams are and can navigate that accordingly throughout the season. We have to look at the entire State when scheduling, prepping, etc. Huge disadvantage for the teams of our section. If you guys could be shipped to the South and not know that until the day the brackets are released, then you are in the same boat as our section. I'm not talking about whether we are D1 or Open. Everyone is in that boat. We have no idea who we would need to beat because we don't know where we will land. If we were locked into the South this year, we might be a bubble Open or even D1. If we were in the North this year, we have a very good shot at this point of Open and a fairly decent seed. Year to year the power changes but we can't plan ahead and schedule ahead or even go scout during the season the same as the other sections.

Has the NorCal top 10 changed much the past 6 months? Not much. Couple teams a little higher, couple teams a little lower. But you can navigate your schedule back in the spring with a very strong idea of who you'll need to beat to get to the level you need to get to. We don't have that luxury.

In all reality, the top 10 in Norcal hasn't changed much in the last 10 years!

Mitty
Pinewood
BOD
SMS
Salesian
Miramonte
CLET (this year they're not as strong)
Cardinal Newman

The last two always have D1 public schools or up and coming (Sac, Antelope, McClatchy, Heritage, etc).

And as for navigating, this year I think MM did just enough to purposely NOT go open. First with playing in a weak WCJ bracket, and then ducking the competition in their "elite is earned" shootouts. Im not suggesting that their schedule is cream puff by any means....Their 14-2, with a 16 strength of schedule is not like SMS's 9-4, 25.6 strength of schedule.

 

[OnBall8]

And as for navigating, this year I think MM did just enough to purposely NOT go open. First with playing in a weak WCJ bracket, and then ducking the competition in their "elite is earned" shootouts. Im not suggesting that their schedule is cream puff by any means....Their 14-2, with a 16 strength of schedule is not like SMS's 9-4, 25.6 strength of schedule.

Totally agree.. And I hope Craig knows I was hinting to MM in my last comment, not CW