regional games..did they get it right?
- Thread starter Thunderous1
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SHP was put in this position by their own section and the CIF. If they weren't forced into their sections Open bracket - which could and should have been eliminated this season via overwhelming support from the coaches/schools - they would be playing in a lower division Regional Bowl game next weekend. Additionally, the CIF compounded the problem with their horrible decision to eliminate the Open game.
Because of those two factors, SHP had to be compared against another undefeated section champ that had a better resume than they did. The CIF made the correct decision based upon SOS, quality wins, ratings, etc. However, they shouldn't have created the situation that made it necessary to choose between 2 qualified teams.
The CCS and CIF need to get their act together so a team like SHP doesn't get screwed again next year. I truly feel bad for the Gators.
Because of those two factors, SHP had to be compared against another undefeated section champ that had a better resume than they did. The CIF made the correct decision based upon SOS, quality wins, ratings, etc. However, they shouldn't have created the situation that made it necessary to choose between 2 qualified teams.
The CCS and CIF need to get their act together so a team like SHP doesn't get screwed again next year. I truly feel bad for the Gators.
enterprise was snubbed... look at the numbers anyhting you want, 5 teams in from the sjs give me a break.
I'm not remotely researching the qualifications of the D2 thru small school teams, but vs the prediction thread, Enterprise is definitely the team that stands out
I think everyone except one predicted them
I think everyone except one predicted them
I agree with you that an enterprise shp game would be solid. love to see bbk and mathews go at it. I just am at a loss with it, give them a shot to defend their title, Oakdale is a hard noised team and all that but after watching their game last night i coulda understood an inderkum win and selection but watching i felt eneterprise and sutter would have their way with either team.
Anyone living in the CCS bubble will think SHP got snubbed. SHP had an excellent season and it was quite an accomplishment to win the CCS Open; however there are those that feel that CCS Open is toughest section around and feel an Open section win should automatically give that team a ticket to the regional.
FAR_NORTHERN - I agree with you. I would have selected the Hornets over Oakdale. I understand you frustration with 5 SJS in the mix, but most them should be there. Oakdale is the one selection that I feel you are spot on, though, to question.
I think overall the picks were good. The bowl format ensures there will be a few teams (north and south) that have a good claim at a bowl shot do not get picked. None of the northern picks are a surprise. All deserve a shot (as the ones that didn't). As it is the north should be positioned well to compete in the state finals -
Open - DLS v Corona Centennial - looks like it should be a very good game. (Maybe 60-% shot for Spartan victory)
D1 - North has a great shot in this one - probably 70% shot with Folsom / Grant may be even against (Got to favor Oceanside or Fresno-Edison
D2 - Clayton Valley / Oakdale versus Redlands East Valley or Ridgeview - could be competitive (slight favorite Socal)
D3 - Socal will be favorite over whoever wins in Norcal. El Capitan will be favorite bit needs to get through a decent Paso Robles.
Small school - Central Catholic versus St Margarets / Christian El Cajon - could be a competitive game but slight favorite Central Catholic.
Norcal will have a shot at winning more games than socal this year. Maybe D1 would be Norcal big favorite and D3 a big Socal favorite.
Open - DLS v Corona Centennial - looks like it should be a very good game. (Maybe 60-% shot for Spartan victory)
D1 - North has a great shot in this one - probably 70% shot with Folsom / Grant may be even against (Got to favor Oceanside or Fresno-Edison
D2 - Clayton Valley / Oakdale versus Redlands East Valley or Ridgeview - could be competitive (slight favorite Socal)
D3 - Socal will be favorite over whoever wins in Norcal. El Capitan will be favorite bit needs to get through a decent Paso Robles.
Small school - Central Catholic versus St Margarets / Christian El Cajon - could be a competitive game but slight favorite Central Catholic.
Norcal will have a shot at winning more games than socal this year. Maybe D1 would be Norcal big favorite and D3 a big Socal favorite.
Yeah that got it right with the cards that were dealt. I know a couple teams feel snubbed and its not a perfect system but I think overall its accurate.
I also like our overall chances to come out ahead in 3 out of the 5 games. Also 60% chance of DLS beating Centennial? Huh? I will move that to more like 90%. Centennial gives up way too many points. Defense wins championships.
I also like our overall chances to come out ahead in 3 out of the 5 games. Also 60% chance of DLS beating Centennial? Huh? I will move that to more like 90%. Centennial gives up way too many points. Defense wins championships.
As a fan who lives in the far north (Chico) here is a message to all of our northern teams.... go out and play someone in non league games!!!! Enterprise lost to a good Vacaville team and the rest of their non-league schedule was soft! It doesn't help our cause that the playoff system is such that we play against the same teams from our own league. How can we expect to be invited to the play in game when teams from the bay and sacramento have a stronger SOS???
well they went into oakdale last year and won, i would have expected oakdale to take the trip north this year but that didnt happen for whatever reason, they took on vacavaille one of the top sjs d2 games. I can assure you that they tried. Whitney also lost 3 of its best players when they were knocked around by enterorise, not that whitney was elite but that definitely did effect the rest of their season. and at the begining of the year many people loooked at whitney as a team that could be in the mix this year, the cards just did not fall that way.
Yeah - the Northen Section playoffs certainly don't help teams like Enterprise. With a first round BYE, they only end up playing 2 playoff games and both are typically against teams they've already defeated. Scheduling out-of-section games is paramount for them.
In fairness to Enterprise they have scheduled the following since 2010:
AntelopeDel CampoOakdaleWhitneyVacavilleEureka
If I were them, I'd try to have at least 2 out-of-section games each year. They accomplished that this season with 3, but, unfortunately, Whitney and Eureka were not good teams. Looking at programs that are a consistent threat to win SJS D3 and NCS D3 seems the way to go. I think they tried to do that with Del Campo, Oakdale and now Whitney.
They should look to add Inderkum, Cardinal Newman and Marin Catholic (just to name a few) to the pool of teams listed above and try to keep 2 of them on the schedule at all times.
In fairness to Enterprise they have scheduled the following since 2010:
AntelopeDel CampoOakdaleWhitneyVacavilleEureka
If I were them, I'd try to have at least 2 out-of-section games each year. They accomplished that this season with 3, but, unfortunately, Whitney and Eureka were not good teams. Looking at programs that are a consistent threat to win SJS D3 and NCS D3 seems the way to go. I think they tried to do that with Del Campo, Oakdale and now Whitney.
They should look to add Inderkum, Cardinal Newman and Marin Catholic (just to name a few) to the pool of teams listed above and try to keep 2 of them on the schedule at all times.
Wow...interesting that Oakdale didn't make a return visit. Inderkum would definitely be a great team to schedule. Sounds like Oakdale didn't want to deal with y'all this year. A great coach once told me. "If they won't come to us we will go to them". It may mean making a trip to SJS every year.
This years Sutter team is a blue print of how a northern section team needs to schedule.
Paradise played Grant in back to seasons but as a whole we tend not to travel to play the type of games we need to play in order to be recognized.
Paradise played Grant in back to seasons but as a whole we tend not to travel to play the type of games we need to play in order to be recognized.
I dont know that i would call that the blueprint, i also feel that yes intersectional games need to be had but games between in section opponents are also important. Sutter should have come to enterprise this year. Enterprise scheduled as tough of if not tougher out of section games than sutter did. 2 of the teams just happened to not pan out, thats just the way it goes.
Paul14, Do you really seriously think that Aptos had a chance at Campo? I have watched numerous games of Aptos this season and went live on Sat night. I am not asking you not to be a homer. We all are but be realistic. Aptos is not a bad team. However what I saw was a scrappy D and a very vanilla Offense with NO passing game. They did not even get a first down until the final drive of the first half against a very mediocre SI team. You have to be balanced. Face it the CCS is down this year with the exception of SHP and Aptos just as other sections go through the ups and downs. I have watched a lot of football both live and on tape and I am telling you there is good football in every section not just yours!!!! Its ok to be bitter. You may even have a kid on the team so that is even more understandable. The second place D3 team, Orland in the North Section could beat Aptos this year. I do feel bad for those Aptos players that came so close. My heart goes out to them. Now what they need to do is go out there and get bigger stronger and more diverse on offense this off season. The resume this season will be enough to get them there next year because all you will need to get in is your section Championship. Does Aptos need a game next year??? Maybe the powers to be can get a Sutter game on their schedule just to show you that the North section can Ball!!! I do know Sutter is not going anywhere for a while. They lose a lot of seniors but have 2 classes combining for a 19-1 JV record next season and quite arguably maybe one of the best Frosh groups it has had with a 9-1 record and the 1 loss being a 1 score game to DLS at DLS. Sutter is 113 - 21 in the last 10 seasons with 5 Section Championships and section runner up 3 of those other seasons and a 2012 Regional Bowl participant.Just for comparison purposes Aptos in the same time frame is 76-45 with 1 sect title. This can be said however since Blankenship took over the Aptos program has been on the rise and is 48-13 since 2010 with 2 sect titles. Coaching does make a diffrence!!!!
Just as others have said it is a shame Sutter and Aptos couldn't determine it on the field. Both teams deserve it!!!!!!!
This post was edited on 12/8 8:12 AM by farmair3
Just as others have said it is a shame Sutter and Aptos couldn't determine it on the field. Both teams deserve it!!!!!!!
This post was edited on 12/8 8:12 AM by farmair3
This is a really bad way of looking at selections. The result doesn't impact if it was a good decision or not. For example, I thought Enterprise should have been chosen over Oakdale. If Oakdale gets blown out by CVC, that won't strengthen my point. If Oakdale wins, it won't weaken my point either.
CCS may be a little down this year within itself and a few public schools actually stronger but not in comparison to the other sections in norcal. The other sections seemed not as strong as well.
Mitty CCS D2 finalist defeated Pittsburg NCS D1 Finalist 13-7
St Ignatius CCS D3 finalist defeated St Mary's Stockton SJS D2 finalist 27-24 OT
Bellarmine defeated Frankilin - SJS Delta first game of season. While not as big a margin as Grant, Bells spotted Frankilin 21 and ended up winning 42-28 in its first game of the season.
Los Gatos CCS Open semifinalist lost by 3 points to St Mary's who could have been 3rd best SJS team.
Actually WCAL did well against other sections. Serra had very tough games against DeLaSalle and did as well as any norcal team in its loss.
Mitty CCS D2 finalist defeated Pittsburg NCS D1 Finalist 13-7
St Ignatius CCS D3 finalist defeated St Mary's Stockton SJS D2 finalist 27-24 OT
Bellarmine defeated Frankilin - SJS Delta first game of season. While not as big a margin as Grant, Bells spotted Frankilin 21 and ended up winning 42-28 in its first game of the season.
Los Gatos CCS Open semifinalist lost by 3 points to St Mary's who could have been 3rd best SJS team.
Actually WCAL did well against other sections. Serra had very tough games against DeLaSalle and did as well as any norcal team in its loss.
The CCS being "DOWN" was a bad choice of verbage on my part. What I should say is "PARITY" in the CCS was up. I don't want it to sound like I don't think the CCS is any good because that is not how I feel. All of these sections have great teams and programs in them.
I strongly disagree. Aptos got snubbed. The mantra of the CIF has been "strength of schedule", yet they don't always reward teams for playing one. The Mariners played 4 teams as good or better than the best team Sutter played, going 3-1. Sutter would not have beaten Granite Bay, either.
Next year, the Santa Cruz Sentinel is suggesting we may see an Aptos-Bellarmine game.
Coach Blankenship has been at this for a very long time. The point is to win the games, which they did.
That "very mediocre" SI team beat the SJS D-II finalist St. Mary's. Aptos also beat this "mediocre" team by the same margin as did CCS Open finalist Bellarmine and CCS D-II finalist Mitty. Yes, the Wildcats took some losses. That's what happens when you have competition in your own section.
Bellarmine is not particularly balanced, yet they've been pretty successful, don't you think? Folsom isn't particularly balanced, either. That's bad, too?
Now, that's just crazy talk. Perhaps you were feeling a little emotional when you wrote this, but this loses credibility for you.
Aptos is one of those schools that benefit from the CCS Open. You could argue that aptos is a borderline top 5 small school in the CCS. There were 3 teams in the open that aptos would easily fall behind IMO. I dont think aptos did anything spectacular to be chosen over an undefeated Sutter. They did have a great season. They now have back to back section championships. No point in putting a dark cloud over a good season.
This post was edited on 12/8 10:36 AM by thehookup55
This post was edited on 12/8 10:36 AM by thehookup55
Farmair- It's okay to not be politically correct. The CCS WAS down because the WCAL was down. They didn't have a dominating team. The reality is that they get the top players in the area and need to be the power for that section to do well.
It's cyclical to a certain extent but there is a slight trend down. I get ripped because my take on the WCAL is that they need to get with the times and have a balanced Offense. They get great athletes and squander them because they refuse to develop a semblance of a passing game.
They will always dominate their area because they boat race teams with superior athletes. They have difficulty when they face a team like Palo Alto a few years ago because they had a balanced Offense and athletes to match. Until they evolve, more of the same.
It's cyclical to a certain extent but there is a slight trend down. I get ripped because my take on the WCAL is that they need to get with the times and have a balanced Offense. They get great athletes and squander them because they refuse to develop a semblance of a passing game.
They will always dominate their area because they boat race teams with superior athletes. They have difficulty when they face a team like Palo Alto a few years ago because they had a balanced Offense and athletes to match. Until they evolve, more of the same.
Sutter's best win came against NCS D-IV winner, Justin-Siena. Aptos beat CCS D-I finalist, Salinas, and challenged SJS D-I semifinalist Granite Bay. The Mariners also beat a team that beat a SJS D-II finalist. The Aptos schedule was vastly superior, in terms of key games. Sutter tried with games with El Cerrito and Novato, but those teams weren't very good.
Sutter took on D-III sized teams to show strength. Aptos took on D-I sized teams. That's a pretty big difference.
Posted by Cal14
Sutter took on D-III sized teams to show strength. Aptos took on D-I sized teams. That's a pretty big difference.
This sentence could be rewritten to say:
Sutter took on D-III sized teams to show strength, and did that by winning. Aptos took on D-I sized teams to show strength, and failed to do that by losing. That's a pretty big difference.
Sutter took on D-III sized teams to show strength. Aptos took on D-I sized teams. That's a pretty big difference.
This sentence could be rewritten to say:
Sutter took on D-III sized teams to show strength, and did that by winning. Aptos took on D-I sized teams to show strength, and failed to do that by losing. That's a pretty big difference.
I hear ya bud. Im not saying aptos didnt have an argument. Just hard to say they got snubbed. If aptos was chosen you could argue sutter got snubbed too. There are teams that get left out every year. I think Aptos needed Salinas to win D-I to really have a shot at getting picked over Sutter
This post was edited on 12/8 11:21 AM by thehookup55
I would disagree on wording that way - school size doesnt equal strength.
Top 3 rated teams that Sutter played, Justin Siena 23.9, Lassen 20.8 and Orland 18.2 - and yes they won all of them.
Top 3 rated Aptos teams, Granite Bay 41.7, SI 32.2, Salinas 28.9 - and they went 2-1 against them.
I think clearly Aptos played the tougher teams and you could clearly argue their merit in being selected over Sutter, even with that 1 loss. Personally, I think I would have picked Aptos over Sutter, but I believe in rewarding teams with the tougher schedules over those that dont schedule anyone difficult. But, not saying Sutter doesnt deserve to go, just that I would have voted Aptos over them.
True. I agree. In this case, though, it did.
The numbers actually get worse for Sutter if you dig deeper. For instance, Orland only beat one team all year with a winning record (yet, somehow fairmar actually thinks they'd beat Aptos?!?!?).
Yes, in the current format, someone was going to not get selected. Like you, though, I favor those with the tougher schedules.
Simple question... could Sutter have had a better record against the same Aptos schedule? No. They would not have beaten Granite Bay. Aptos would have ripped Sutter's schedule, though.
Sutter's 3 playoff opponents combined for a grand total of 4 wins against teams with winning records... 3 coming against the same team, Corning.
Sutter's "big win" came against a team that also lost 22-0 to Novato.
Cal14 - Re Aptos playing Bells
I believe Palma is replacing its Saint Francis or Carmel slot with Belarmine. Been trying to get Palma to try to get a Campolindo, Cardinal Newman (they talked last year) and Sutter game when it was though the CCS would go back to enrollments. Now it looks like Palma will have to schedule an out of section D1 power and win to get bowl consideration when only 420 students. Not sure who the other slot is.
Aptos as I mentioned above certainly deserved to be in the bowl for the reasons described. Sutter tried to schedule tougher competition, but just didn't work out. Novato hasn't been the same program as they have for several years though and El Cerrito was expected to fall some this season. Overall though Sutter showed enough to be picked. I think if Marin Catholic didn't lose to Justin Sienna and played so lose to Campo, Aptos would have been chosen. Sutter domination of Justin Sienna helped although margin of victory shouldn't be considered. Kind of a similar comparison to the Aptos win over St Ignatius. Overall Aptos had a stronger SOS, but it seems this comparison was weighted more than anything else and I agree that based on your assessment that Aptos should have been chosen. I think either team is deserving and snubbed may be harsh. The way teams are picked leaves to much subjectivity and it seems to promote in some ways to schedule to go undefeated and SOS can be used or not for or against a team. I think D3 in any event will be a good game. Socal D3 team should dominate whoever gets to the state bowl.
I believe Palma is replacing its Saint Francis or Carmel slot with Belarmine. Been trying to get Palma to try to get a Campolindo, Cardinal Newman (they talked last year) and Sutter game when it was though the CCS would go back to enrollments. Now it looks like Palma will have to schedule an out of section D1 power and win to get bowl consideration when only 420 students. Not sure who the other slot is.
Aptos as I mentioned above certainly deserved to be in the bowl for the reasons described. Sutter tried to schedule tougher competition, but just didn't work out. Novato hasn't been the same program as they have for several years though and El Cerrito was expected to fall some this season. Overall though Sutter showed enough to be picked. I think if Marin Catholic didn't lose to Justin Sienna and played so lose to Campo, Aptos would have been chosen. Sutter domination of Justin Sienna helped although margin of victory shouldn't be considered. Kind of a similar comparison to the Aptos win over St Ignatius. Overall Aptos had a stronger SOS, but it seems this comparison was weighted more than anything else and I agree that based on your assessment that Aptos should have been chosen. I think either team is deserving and snubbed may be harsh. The way teams are picked leaves to much subjectivity and it seems to promote in some ways to schedule to go undefeated and SOS can be used or not for or against a team. I think D3 in any event will be a good game. Socal D3 team should dominate whoever gets to the state bowl.
Prior to reading this thread, I wasn't up to speed on the resumes for each team other than knowing Aptos had played GB. After reading through all the info and opinions, I agree that Aptos seemed to be the more qualified team.
When playing a challenging schedule, there are more opportunities for losses. I believe 12-1 against the opponents Aptos played is more impressive than 13-0 against the schedule Sutter played. That doesn't mean Sutter couldn't have matched or outperformed Aptos' if given the same schedule -- but in the absence of proof that they could, you can only go by what actually transpired.
When playing a challenging schedule, there are more opportunities for losses. I believe 12-1 against the opponents Aptos played is more impressive than 13-0 against the schedule Sutter played. That doesn't mean Sutter couldn't have matched or outperformed Aptos' if given the same schedule -- but in the absence of proof that they could, you can only go by what actually transpired.
Even though aptos is losing 20 plus seniors - they will be back in the thick of things the next two years. The junior class has some stars and the sophmore class is considered to be faster and deeper than the current senior class. Also the freshman class this year has some studs as well. Aptos is not going anywhere over the next few years.
that being said. the senior class of kids were outstanding with lots of heart and character. Great group of kids.
This post was edited on 12/8 4:23 PM by Paul14
that being said. the senior class of kids were outstanding with lots of heart and character. Great group of kids.
This post was edited on 12/8 4:23 PM by Paul14
