San Diego coaches gang up on Folsom
- Thread starter thespecialone
- Start date
Personally, I think Chris Richardson is a great coach and person. It's a state championship game and Folsom rarely gets to play it's starters more than half a game. Somebodies a little butt hurt in my opinon
If Richardson truly told him he’s trying to break records it’s sad. But up north we already knew what folsom football is about no matter their qb they’ll try to get him in the record books I think folsom has done a better job at putting their backs up in the game this year. I’d assume some of it has to do with parents of the kids that grew up in Folsom would like to see their kids play. Putting up crazy stats also helps to attract players
Why doesn't De La Salle ever bitch about Folsom leaving their starters in the entire game?
Anyone that saw that game has to have some sort of impression and bias. What I saw (and have confirmed via. video review) was that on the last offensive series, Oceanside had 8 in the box and were hitting Jake every time whether he had the ball or not. So Folsom runs a little dump screen to our 3rd string RB (a 5'6" 190lb Sr who had a total of 14 catches all season) out of the backfield and he goes the distance in a foot race.
Then Folsom kicks off with about a minute to go and Oceanside rolls out their starting offense and is trying to throw deep. I KNOW Folsom didn't have their defensive starters in because my son was playing behind Jonah Williams (now at Bama) and Cody Creason (now at Arizona) and was actually on the field for the last series. So the starting QB (who scored on their 1st series) is scrambling as time runs out, gets sacked and drops the ball....LB scoops and scores with 0 time left on the clock.
So within the last minute of the game, predicated by their insistence on loading the box and late hitting the QB, the spread went from 48 to 61 pts. in the blink of an eye. The ONLY points Folsom scored in the 4th were those 13 in the last minute. Had they not gone after Jake, Folsom would have ran on 4 downs and the clock would have run out...just like they did most games that season.
Revisionist history is dangerous because everyone is dependent on the people present to offer the REAL version of what went on. I'm 100% positive that neither of our recollections is 100% accurate BUT I know for a fact that Folsom was not running their starters against their 2nd string O.
Then Folsom kicks off with about a minute to go and Oceanside rolls out their starting offense and is trying to throw deep. I KNOW Folsom didn't have their defensive starters in because my son was playing behind Jonah Williams (now at Bama) and Cody Creason (now at Arizona) and was actually on the field for the last series. So the starting QB (who scored on their 1st series) is scrambling as time runs out, gets sacked and drops the ball....LB scoops and scores with 0 time left on the clock.
So within the last minute of the game, predicated by their insistence on loading the box and late hitting the QB, the spread went from 48 to 61 pts. in the blink of an eye. The ONLY points Folsom scored in the 4th were those 13 in the last minute. Had they not gone after Jake, Folsom would have ran on 4 downs and the clock would have run out...just like they did most games that season.
Revisionist history is dangerous because everyone is dependent on the people present to offer the REAL version of what went on. I'm 100% positive that neither of our recollections is 100% accurate BUT I know for a fact that Folsom was not running their starters against their 2nd string O.
Ha!!!...
.... Because Folsom has a lot of trouble scoring against good teams...Folsom is like the schoolyard bully who beats up on all the little kids... When the Big kids show up Folsom either gets the Butt Kicked or they Run and Hide...
Why is the Folsom #1 QB in the Game with a 30+ Point Lead?
Why does the LB not just fall on the ball up 53-7?
What's the Big Deal with Oceanside Throwing Deep? Are the kids supposed to give up?
Spin it however you want, Your team loves running up the score on helpless opponents because they struggle to score against good teams... That's why your coach keeps his nice soft schedule...
Folsom only agreed to play DLS because Folsom has Nothing to Lose... Win and go to the open, Lose and go run up the score in the D-1AA Bowl on some lower level D2 So Cal Team.... The "Folsom Rule" "Loser Moves On" working to perfection...
"Why does the LB not just fall on the ball up 53-7?
What's the Big Deal with Oceanside Throwing Deep? Are the kids supposed to give up? "
Can't have it both ways. Why should that Linebacker give up? How many opportunities do you have to scoop up a fumble and take it to the house in a State Championship in your lifetime. These kids put in hard work for four years to make memories that will last them a lifetime.
What's the Big Deal with Oceanside Throwing Deep? Are the kids supposed to give up? "
Can't have it both ways. Why should that Linebacker give up? How many opportunities do you have to scoop up a fumble and take it to the house in a State Championship in your lifetime. These kids put in hard work for four years to make memories that will last them a lifetime.
The LB would not be giving up, he would be 'Showing Class" and Sportsmanship... Was he concerned that Oceanside was going make a comeback from 53-7?....
The Kid had a chance to show Class up 53-7 on a Big Stage, instead he rubbed his opponents Faces in It....
I guess if Scoring a meaningless TD up 53-7 at the end of a game to rub it in a bunch of over-matched HS kids faces is The Kind of Memory that Kid wants, then more power to him and Congrat's on his TD!
Yeah I am sure the KID thought "I am going to scoop this take it to the house so we can rub it in their face." You are right though he wasn't concerned with Oceanside making a comeback, he was concerned about finishing out a once in a lifetime opportunity for most.
Was Oceanside expecting to comeback? Why not just run it up the gut, take time off the clock and call it a day. See how it works both ways.
Pretty sure he was thinking more along the lines of "Oh shit I got the ball, oh shit no ones in front of me, oh shit I'm about to score, oh shit I just scored this is great."
Have you ever played competitive sports? Or did you hang around the participation trophy crowd.
It's football hit or sit.
Was Oceanside expecting to comeback? Why not just run it up the gut, take time off the clock and call it a day. See how it works both ways.
Pretty sure he was thinking more along the lines of "Oh shit I got the ball, oh shit no ones in front of me, oh shit I'm about to score, oh shit I just scored this is great."
Have you ever played competitive sports? Or did you hang around the participation trophy crowd.
It's football hit or sit.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Had Folsom not left Jake on the field with at late 30+ point lead, I'm sure Oceanside would not have gone after your QB. They were bringing the house to send a message to Richardson and the rest of Bulldog nation that good sportsmanship dictates that you pull your QB with that huge lead. Apparently Folsom does not care about sportsmanship or character and preaches to demoralize your opponent at all costs.
Why in the world would you bring this up and out during the week of the champ? Its like the guy who can't control his mouth before the national champ game or super bowl. Or have they already concluded they have no chance? Strange if you ask me.
Congrats CC. You are going to lose by 60 now instead of 35.
Congrats CC. You are going to lose by 60 now instead of 35.
Shhhhh, you can't expose secrets like that!
I mean a smart guy like you should know that the best way to maximize the performance of any high school athlete is to convince them that their opponents are garbage. If this gets out EVERY HS team will adopt the no character / demoralize your opponent at all costs strategy! I would hate to have to back to that old outdated system of starting kids with solid fundamentals at the mighty mite level and building them up with coaching and encouragement, respect of parents, players, coaches, officials and parents. That's SO old school. SMH
A few years back I witnessed a game in the jr program where Folsom had their opponent in a running clock in the 4th quarter. Their opponent fumbled the ball with 4 seconds left on the game clock and Folsom did not have to run another play. However, Folsom's coach called a timeout and ran his starters out on the field in an attempt to put another score on the board. While I realize that the jr program is not the high school, it is this mentality that is very prevalent within the Folsom community.Shhhhh, you can't expose secrets like that!
SMH
Oh yeah, ruthless from top to bottom! It's ingrained early that to win at all costs and most definitely embarrass your opponents any way you can! Imagine the diabolical minds behind this kind of embarrassment!!
Coaches Preach to "Not Give Up" so trying to score when you are down 50+ points, is different then leaving your #1 QB in the game up 30+ and running in a TD up 53-7... We can just agree to disagree...
Let me ask you this, when Folsom was on the 2 yard Line against Central with 2 Minutes left up by 31 points 77-46, why did they just not kick a field goal or take a Knee?... Is punching in a TD up 31 points with your starters in the game, not running up the score?
Rubbing it in the Face of High School Kids is just Sad...
Also, I Played HSFB, Linebacker 3 Year Varsity Starter and was Defensive Player of the Year...I also Played Varsity Baseball since I was Freshmen...
It's Funny that a Folsom fan talks about the 'Participation Trophy Crowd" That would be you guys... Your Star QB was a total Bust against DLS so you cried to the CIF so you didn't have to play the "Big Green Bully" so your Overrated Star QB could go to a Bowl game...
That's a participation trophy my friend... Cant play with the Big Boys, so go beat up on the little kids...
And this Folsom Team, Got Shut Out and Lost By 2 TD... Folsom is Nothing more then a Classless "Paper Tiger" that runs up the score against lower level teams...
So the only “big boys” in california are DLS and SoCal schools? GTFOH with that garbage.
This is just so demonstrably dishonest. They were clearly going to after the national TD pass record. That screen pass was the one that tied it.
Again, Folsom fans have a weird belief that no one else sees what they do. That LB who got the scoop and score was a starter. He was on the field all game.
It's a matter of opinion. Most coaches I know understand that when you're getting blown out, it's up to you to 'wave the white flag.' You might not like to hear that, but that's how it is. When a coach keeps throwing it deep down by +40, that tells the other team you're not going away. If you don't want the score ran up, run the ball and try to get out of the game unhurt. In a championship game, throw it deep, f it. Just understand what the outcomes are.
If we are running the ball, what does it matter who is handing to them? You're gonna hit our QB after he's handed it off? OK, we'll just have him back pedal and throw the screen. VIOLA!
I wasn't watching the last 2 minutes, but I'm sure it's just part of the grand scheme to humiliate weaker opponents that have gone 36-5 over the last 3 seasons
Totally agree...but lets put this one aside for a moment (we'll reference it later and denote with a *) and read on....
Wowzers! That is quite a resume! If you would have added "a Section and State football Championship, 4 year varsity wrestler, 3x Masters qualifier & state placer before going to a small D2 school and starting at linebacker for 3 years and becoming an NCAA All American in track & field while getting my mechanical engineering degree" I would have said "SON! WTH are you doing on here? Call your mother, she's worried about plans for Christmas!
Instead, I'm left to ask "What were you doing in the winter in HS?"
...NOW would be the appropriate time to refer back to * statement above. I am sure that Jesuit, Antelope, Chaminade, Oak Ridge, Rocklin, Whitney, Granite Bay, Grant, Del Oro, Edison, St Mary's, Monterey Trail and Fresno Central all consider themselves "little kids" getting picked on. (despite that 4 of the last 6 faced Folsom undefeated and account for a combined record of 66-6 without their Folsom loss)
....and again *.
So despite the fact that these kids and coaches work their tails off, you go out of your way to discredit their accomplishments at every turn. If their not home grown enough, they're too good and running up the score on other undefeated teams. From youth football through HS they're just "classless paper tigers" raised, not to play football to the best of their ability, but rather avoid the "really good teams" and only embarrass teams in their league and the undefeated teams they happen to stumble upon in the playoffs.
It's amazing that any of them find any sort of success beyond HS as athletes, students, husbands, fathers and community members with such a crooked moral compass created by the Folsom football program, yet somehow they persevere.
I guess we can be thankful that none of them have fallen so far that they spend their free time on-line discrediting the accomplishments and finding fault in HS kids playing football.* Their only apparent purpose to elevate their own mental midgetry, moral superiority and distorted self image.* That's where the real failures dwell....
Nope but Socal puts most of it heavy hitters in one bracket and 1 team moves on to SBG. The rest are a clear level behind that group basically the “B” squads. NorCal makes sure it’s top two team play in SBG games because one couldn’t handle losing.
For Folsom fans to think they don’t run up the score, well you probably need to take off your Blue tinted glasses.
Honestly, I’m fine with them doing it....I’ve been around sports and coaching long enough to know there are many ways to ‘skin a cat. Folsom has built a successful model doing things the way they do them.
BUT....what I’m not fine with; is Folsom fan coming on here with a boatload of excuses / reasons why they do it. Just accept that your team plays a certain way. It doesn’t mean they are bad people, or dirty players, it means that they may have priorities that may piss of others. So what? I always wanted opponents to dislike my teams when I played, as a hint of arrogance can be motivating and provide success. But at some point, not respecting how your opponent views the way you play can come back and bite you.
And having your star QB in a 53-7 game is insane....IMHO. C’mon, don’t try tit justify that.
BTW...in Folsom’s defense, the arguement that a Folsom Defensive player who picked up a fumble at the end of the game should’ve fallen on ball and not scored a TD is ridiculous. I’m all for calling out teams for running up the score, but you can’t expect a defensive player to take a knee when he’s got paydirt in front of him.
Honestly, I’m fine with them doing it....I’ve been around sports and coaching long enough to know there are many ways to ‘skin a cat. Folsom has built a successful model doing things the way they do them.
BUT....what I’m not fine with; is Folsom fan coming on here with a boatload of excuses / reasons why they do it. Just accept that your team plays a certain way. It doesn’t mean they are bad people, or dirty players, it means that they may have priorities that may piss of others. So what? I always wanted opponents to dislike my teams when I played, as a hint of arrogance can be motivating and provide success. But at some point, not respecting how your opponent views the way you play can come back and bite you.
And having your star QB in a 53-7 game is insane....IMHO. C’mon, don’t try tit justify that.
BTW...in Folsom’s defense, the arguement that a Folsom Defensive player who picked up a fumble at the end of the game should’ve fallen on ball and not scored a TD is ridiculous. I’m all for calling out teams for running up the score, but you can’t expect a defensive player to take a knee when he’s got paydirt in front of him.
Really? According to who? The screen pass I am speaking of was #229...yet the references I find list Maty Mauk in 2nd place with 219?
If you are the record holder with 228 TD passes, then #229 is in fact, breaking the record...albeit your own.
Plus...I think it was #91 for the season....tying the single season record, right?
Plus...I think it was #91 for the season....tying the single season record, right?
Ahhh, gotcha. You're right, same source lists the #91 as tying that record. Again, it's all in the lens you are looking through. There are a bunch listed where I was looking and I wasn't sure what record he was looking at and "career TD" was the 1st I saw Jake's name listed as holding.
It was not my intent to be "dishonest". I had watched every game they played that year and it was standard practice once we went to controlled scrimmage / running clock (every game that year) to wait until the ref started counting down, snap the ball and hand it off to 1 of the 14 kids that they let carry the ball that year. Hell, if they wouldn't have kept trying to hurt Jake, my younger son (a LS'er and 3rd string D lineman) might have gotten his chance to carry the ball in a State Championship game!
@awood1
Honestly, I’m Ok with Richardson wanting Jake to get the record, and leaving him in for that reason. He has loyalty to his guy, and I can respect that. However, he had to have known that would piss off their opponent...but so be it. Honestly, I don’t know what I’d have done in that situation. But, for you to think Browing was in a 53-7 Championship Game to hand off....and the only reason he was passing is because Oceanside was ‘trying to hurt’ him....well then, I’m afraid your bias is not allowing you to honestly assess the situation.
Honestly, I’m Ok with Richardson wanting Jake to get the record, and leaving him in for that reason. He has loyalty to his guy, and I can respect that. However, he had to have known that would piss off their opponent...but so be it. Honestly, I don’t know what I’d have done in that situation. But, for you to think Browing was in a 53-7 Championship Game to hand off....and the only reason he was passing is because Oceanside was ‘trying to hurt’ him....well then, I’m afraid your bias is not allowing you to honestly assess the situation.
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My guess is that he wouldn't have been in position to tie the record in the first place because you would have pulled him out of blowouts early like a normal person.
Interesting Post @awood1 !... Maybe you didn't read what @ivey1919 posted when he said that "Have you even ever Played Sports?"... I was answering him back when I discussed what sports I played in High School...
While I may not be accomplished as you athletically and I am not an Engineer, I did serve 6 years in the Navy, Put Myself Through College, graduated with a Degree in Psychology and Built and sold 2 Business from the ground up and have a wonderful family...
What I find Interesting is, You decided to immediately rub my face in your accomplishments and disparage my own... Just like the way your recruited up team (Which I think is Fine) Rubs their Athletic prowess in their lower level opponents opponents face by running up the score (Not Fine)...
This seems consistent with the feeling of the teams in your league that Folsom has better Recruited up Athletes and Runs up the Score for no reason... Teams like Grant, Del Oro, Rocklin and all the other SFL Team's that complained in the paper...
Your Accomplishments are Great and both You and Your Parents Should Be Proud... I hope you keep in mind that while I am not an "All American Athlete", It's people like me who Volunteer to serve our country are why dudes like you have the freedom to play sports be All Americans and become Engineers...
Maybe one day your Folsom "Great Athletes" Who are "Better Then Everyone Else", will get on a Bus like PITT (Who is a Public School With Limited Resources) did 2 years in a row and try to Punch CC in The Mouth....
So what do you say Mr. All American? Are you willing to call out your coach and say "Lets stop embarrassing these poor kids by running up the score and get on a bus and go punch Corona Centennial in the Mouth?"
Or are you content with the Ball on the 2 yard line up by 31 with 2 minutes left and punching in another TD with your 1st String QB in the game against a Lower Level D-1AA Team?....
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Here's my .02 regarding running up scores. And this is independent of Folsom, I'm not thinking or speaking of them when I say this.
In most situations where the losing party still has their starters in the game and is still trying to score, I don't believe it should be incumbent upon the winning team to pull all their starters and stop playing.
Now, thinking as a coach, if my team is up 35 points with 8 minutes to go, I'd like to get my starters out of the game to prevent the possibility of injury and to give others some game experience. Therefore I'd make the first move and pull my starting offensive skill players (while leaving my starting line in the game) and hope to see my opponent begin following suit. If they begin doing the same, then I'm pulling all my starters across the board. But if they don't and are still slinging it play after play indicating that they aren't conceding or quitting, then I'm putting my starters back in. Period.
How I'd approach play calling from that point on would depend upon how my opponent continued to play their hand.
In most situations where the losing party still has their starters in the game and is still trying to score, I don't believe it should be incumbent upon the winning team to pull all their starters and stop playing.
Now, thinking as a coach, if my team is up 35 points with 8 minutes to go, I'd like to get my starters out of the game to prevent the possibility of injury and to give others some game experience. Therefore I'd make the first move and pull my starting offensive skill players (while leaving my starting line in the game) and hope to see my opponent begin following suit. If they begin doing the same, then I'm pulling all my starters across the board. But if they don't and are still slinging it play after play indicating that they aren't conceding or quitting, then I'm putting my starters back in. Period.
How I'd approach play calling from that point on would depend upon how my opponent continued to play their hand.
If you're up by 35 points with 8 minutes to go, there's a decent chance that your backups are about as good as their starters.
Having read the article, I feel Carroll is right that the 1st team shouldn't be in against his reserves. I don't recall whether he is correct that Folsom's defensive starters were in the game or that his 1st team offense was out, but assuming that he is correct on both accounts -- I fully understand his frustration. As I stated above, if my opponent put in his reserves -- I'd do the same.
However, I think he's misguided regarding a defensive player not scoring a TD when the opportunity arises. Players that don't often score are typically going to run with the opportunity w/o giving it a 2nd thought. It happens in college and pro ball too. While it's nice to think a player might run out of bounds or stop short of the goal line, how often do you see that happen? It's quite uncommon.
Lastly, I find it funny that these coaches are working together in an effort to humble Folsom.That's classic. Perception is often reality. And sometimes you reap what you sow.
FWIW, I'm sure DLS has been accused of running up the score many times over the years too (even with backups in the game). When you win as often as they do and usually by large margins because the opposition can't score much -- it's bound to come with the territory.
However, I think he's misguided regarding a defensive player not scoring a TD when the opportunity arises. Players that don't often score are typically going to run with the opportunity w/o giving it a 2nd thought. It happens in college and pro ball too. While it's nice to think a player might run out of bounds or stop short of the goal line, how often do you see that happen? It's quite uncommon.
Lastly, I find it funny that these coaches are working together in an effort to humble Folsom.That's classic. Perception is often reality. And sometimes you reap what you sow.
FWIW, I'm sure DLS has been accused of running up the score many times over the years too (even with backups in the game). When you win as often as they do and usually by large margins because the opposition can't score much -- it's bound to come with the territory.
I agree.
And the example off the top of my head may not be a good one. Point was, once it was clear the game was decided in my favor, I'd start cycling in reserves and hope my opponent would begin to concede as well. A running clock helps too.
I have followed DLS very closely for years and I have not seen nor heard anyone accusing them of running up the score.... I May be wrong, so I will defer to anyone who knows different...
What I do know is, if DLS was up by 31 Points with 2 Minutes left in the game and on the 2 yard line, they would have their second string in the game and take a knee...
Because even if the other team scores a TD against DLS 2nd string, DLS is fine with winning by 24 vs 31... Because rubbing it in their opponents face by running up the score is not what DLS does...
I remember a televised game DLS had vs Evangel Christian of Louisiana some years ago at DVC. Spartans were up 27-10 and had the ball on Evangels 2 yard line with about a minute and a half to play. DLS took a knee three times to close it out. ESPN commentators remarked about the sportsmanship DLS displayed.
To provide some clarity and point of reference....Folsom led 41-7 at the half. That means they had only scored 2 TDS over the next 15-17 minutes before the final TD pass by Browning ( on a screen pass). I still don’t think id have had my starting QB in the game at that point, but it does appear the Bulldogs had taken their fooot of the gas at halftime
Folsom fans think it's cute. They turn a blind eye to reality, It's unfortunate but the only way this will ever change is when one of their star players blows a knee out in the middle of trash time and Richardson has to answer questions. It's unfortunate but it's what will ultimately happen.
Case in point: GB with the great Ernie Cooper was playing Grant Union in GB. Less than a minute left in the game with the score 21-7, GB was parked at Grants 2 yard line. First play they took a knee instead of driving the score up. Grant quickly decided to call a time out....Next play GB ran an Iso and scored to make it 28-7....who is that on? I agree with his decision....
