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Sanctions against several SJS teams

I generally support the CIF as they have a tough job. However, these sanctions have me wondering what the heck they are thinking. Anyone who was at the Del Oro camp witnessed coach Taylor bringing every child, coach and referee to the center of the field. This is where he spent at least 15-20 minutes going over the new contact law and the training he had received. The whistles at this camp were so fast that players would pull up and quickly wrap up and release. It was evident that Coach Taylor was running this camp in compliance with the training he had received by the CIF. The part that is concerning to me is that teams that attended different camps are part of these penalties. Clayton Valley was not at the Del Oro camp and I can tell you that coach Taylor is not speaking with Coach Murphy. If you watch the Clayton Valley film that was posted on this site the camp was run almost identical to the Del Oro camp. The interpretation of the law was exactly the same. If all these coaches that received training on the new law from the CIF are interpreting the law the same way and the CIF says it is wrong, then there is clearly a problem in the clarity of the training these coaches received. Great leaders are not afraid to take the blame for failures. The right thing to do would be for the CIF to use the first year as an education period and not come in with a heavy hand when the issues are clearly a result of failures in training and poor clarity of the law. Lastly, all the penalties are against teams that held local camps, filmed the camps and shared the film with the CIF. These programs are clearly trying to do the right thing. What about the programs that say they did not film the camp or went to an out of state camp in Oregon or Nevada. I guarantee these camps were not modified to meet this California law.
 
Wonder if Gil Lemmon has the same idea for Clayton and Antioch. Rumor is they've been in pads nealry all summer and I doubt they were more cautious then schools like Del Oro.
 
Decoy,

I think the most of CT and his staff, a great amount of respect, lets start there but......a quick look on FB or search of you tube shows plenty of clips where kids were taking full contact, going to the ground and generally playing football, very looesly. it is NOT the way you are presenting things.

Secondly it doesn't appear the SJS Section is penalizing theses teams. they chose to go to camp. They had contact, therefore to keep the field balanced they will lose a number of practices to make the playing field even with teams that choose to abid by the LAW. AB2127

Here is where many are confused, such as yourself. This is not an SJS, Section or a football ruling. This is a change of the law. Just imagine if a player got a concussion by "accident" at one of the camps. we all know there are plenty of lawyers in this state that parents could hire. Since it is a law being broken, the school ,coach, staff and anyone else deemed involved are now at risk. Is this worth it??

I am not saying they purposely did this and hid it. (hiding it would be hard since film was on the net the first day). I am saying that with a "WINK" everyone involved knew there could be ramifications.

Put 50 players in pads, put an opposoing team in pads and line up. Tell them no contact....REALLY....REALLY.....btw Clayton Valley is not in SJS so it would be difficult to hammer them but I heard Woodcreek will be having suspensions due to that camp??? JMO
 
As far as out of state camps are concerned, that was brought up at the CIF meeting and the CIF told us all that should teams go out of state and attend full contact camps there would be ramifications for that. A California team would have to abide to the California law!!! Period
 
WWHS44,

I realize it is a law. The CIF has taken on the task of training coaches and enforcing the rules. I am not a coach and was not at the training so cannot speak to what was communicated. I am just looking at the facts that there appears to be a great deal of confusion in regards to what is allowed at these camps. If the penalties were enforced to keep the field balanced as you suggested then all teams that attended padded camps like Elk Grove and Oakridge would also receive the same penalty. The fact that schools that did not film or destroyed the film got off the hook does not eliminate the fact that they were at padded camps where contact took place. It all comes down to the true definition of Full Contact and how the training was presented to these coaches. There just seems to be a great deal of confusion. If all types of contact were against the law I guarantee Casey Taylor would not have held a padded camp. I am confident that CT asked a ton of questions to make sure he had a clear understanding of what is allowed. He then developed the camp in accordance with what was conveyed at the training. I believe there is a disconnect between what was presented in the training and what is being enforced. Kids are going to go to the ground in football, soccer, lacrosse with contact or without. Look at 7 on 7 and how many kids are taken down. The Del Oro camp was a true testament to law AB2127 as kids in attendance completed the camp healthy. Again, I respect the CIF and usually go to bat for them. The CIF SJS works very close with Sac State. To see the Sac State camp also interpreted the law wrong has to carry some merit.
 
Dan,

One thing that was well known was a predetermined winner. Quick look at film and this was not done Case closed. Complaining about other teams or schools is not relevant here. the contact is very close to a game. i think you should look at the film again....Quick look at the Placer hearld and the pictures that came about of the camp Placer put on shows the same evidence. lowering shoulder into thigh pad making a tackle, kids on the ground etc.etc.etc.....

Just bc noone got hurt doesnt equate to the law being broken. Since when did the CIF have the power to enforce state law???

I think this may be the end to contact football camps period! For the record DELORO is not the only school or camp to have teams lose practice time.

It is my understanding the camp MT put on was so controlled that it was a waste of time.....Some teams attended camps where there was no interaction with another team? If practicing in gear is the goal, this was not the way to do it....

Mind you many schools did not attend camp such as Folsom for fear of the unknown???

I could be wrong but heard the teams that went to SOU, Sac state will be having issues???
 
WWHS44
Your points are well taken. If high school summer camps go away this certainly opens the door for full contact AAU teams to come in. AAU type teams already have one foot in the door with traveling 7 on 7 teams.
 
Last I heard it was football and tackling was part of the game. This red tape "big brother" oversight is going to kill the game and lead to other organizations capitalizing. Its still more dangerous to get on skateboard.
 
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Cud this be the start of High School teams from California leaving the CIF and forming their own Sections/Districts? Will there be a mass exodus from the CIF? I am just wondering...or is their law preventing them from leaving the CIF?
 
Pretty sure some of the other post brought this up but a competitive Thud session where players aren't supposed to take each other to the ground never works that way 100%, somebody is going down every other play. This declaring a pre-snap winner and loser thing is ridiculous because in my experience injury's occur when one player is going full speed and the other half. I'm sure MOST coaches have the best intentions with these contact practices/camps and do their due diligence to abide by the rules. sounds like these teams need a warning or a probation and nothing else. All I know is in NCS you had to wait until July 22nd to even do full padded thud, not sure CVC was in that timeline.
 
First off it doesn't matter if your in the NCS, DVAL, CVC. The change was in STATE LAW, AB 2127.
Second 'THUD' is a term that is not acceptable concernign camp and everyone whoo attended the meeting understood this.
I have no doubt that all coach's have good intentions buuutt they all know and knew they were pushing the limits and were willing to see how far they could bend the rules......They found out.

Punished? Not at all, It was made that ALL teams will get the same amount of padded practices, an even playing field if you will.

leaving the CIF won't make any difference as it is a Stae law that will govern any league...
 
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Wow. Kind of hard to believe that the section would penalize teams an entire week of practice for an infraction of a rule that not many understand.
 
It needs to be restated here. As WWHS44 has said this is a STATE law which the CIF has nothing to do with its inception. In fact I am sure the CIF hates this. Its the Good olé politicians that have to have their hands in everything!!! It is the bigger picture guys. You know how our Ca. Government works. Lets be the first to screw things up!!!! I am one that attended the meeting and Warren Moon and some other coaches and trainers were there speaking on this new law and what is being done to cut down on concussions. There were some very sad stories on injuries and even death however they are very few in comparison to the amount of kids that participate in sports. I am not being heartless to those that are injured or deceased and if this comment offends anyone I apologize up front I am just being open to the fact that there are many things that hurt or kill in our lives. Football and other sports have many many more positives than negatives. I truly believe that injuries will rise now that these summer work outs have been limited. Especially early on in the scrimmages and season openers. For now all of our hands are tied by our government and I also have to agree I do believe at some point these summer camps will unfortunately be banned and no longer allowed.
 
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Followed Will C Wood up to Tahoe to watch their camp and while up there talked to some of their coaches. They normally have gone to Oregon for camp but felt that with Oregon and Idaho schools already in pads for two weeks and using different rules, that they would get into a full (normal) contact mode and then be in violation. So they chose Tahoe (with only California schools). I took away a couple of different things from the camp. One, a lot of bad habits were being formed by players not getting in good hitting positions before whistles blew and not hustling to the ball because of fast whistles. Both very correctable, but still the new format created some issues. The other piece I took away was that for the first time in 4 years all of the players came back healthy...nobody was badly hurt. I don't just mean concussions, no ankles, knees, shoulders etc. The coaches will fix the new bad habits, but when was the last time your school came away from a camp/scrimmage with no real injuries. I'm an old time football guy and hitting is the name of the game, but I was pleasantly surprise with the healthy return of all the players.
 
http://www.cifsjs.org/coaches_and_administrators/sanctions

If you check out the sanctions page you will see that Whitney was penalized in the spring.

1903.3
OUT OF SEASON (INCLUDING LIMITED PERIOD):
The use of any football equipment will not be
allowed between the end of a school’s football season and the school’s last day of attendance (See also
Bylaw 504.7).​

Del Oro and Oakridge are on probation (all sports) for having 8th graders participate.
​
 
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Regarding Oak Ridge and this thread...

First, OR is on probation, but not because they had 8th graders participating during off season activities, as mentioned above. OR had a "parent information night" for all incoming freshman athletes during the course of their 8th grade year a few months ago. OR handed out information regarding freshman football and information pertaining to summer dates, workout schedules, etc. OR realized that the handout content of this event was a violation. The OR athletic department contacted CIF and turned itself in, resulting in a probation period for all athletics.

No 8th graders ever participated in sports at OR.

Second, OR participated in the Southern Oregon University's football contact camp this past summer. The football team abided by the new law and did not participate in illegal contact. Due to the sanctions posed on the teams mentioned in this thread, the CIF investigated OR's participation by contacting SOU football staff and viewed film of the camp.

OR football was found to have properly conducted the camp within Califonia law.
 
MtEdenHomer said:
How was the information they passed out a violation of any CIF rules? Just curious.
Click to expand...
8th graders are not supposed to participate in any high school activities or even be contacted by school officials until they graduate the 8th grade and enroll at the high school they are going to attend.
 
Oh gotcha. I see now that the post said "during the course of their 8th grade year". I didn't catch that in the post. Thank you.

Seems so odd that CIF is so adamant about kids not receiving information. These admin are so good about getting in their own way.
 
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