SHC makes Sweet 16 semis

[jaymel911]

We have a similar system today but with the addition that your acalanes team would have been pulled to the open.

Last season the top D1 team, two top d2 teams, the two top d3 teams, the top d4 team and the top d5 team all were pulled to the open. Absent the open and barring a major upset none of the Nor Cal Champions would have represented Nor Cal at state and in D2 and D3 (Elk Grove & SHC) would not have (barring upset) made it to the Nor Cal final.

At no time in CIF Basketball history, prior to the open have they taken the best eight teams from all division classes like they did last year. In the end it balances out, I suppose.

 

[iamgearyblvd]

CIityBoy415

If DIV has some many bad teams the why did CN beat SHC by 12 points? Some teams in the lower division dont beling there. Brookside beat SHC last year when they was DIV team but now D1. Cant say lower Division teams are weaker. Dont forget about Salesian was DIV too last year.

How does a school jump from D4 to D1 like that? Isnt division placement based on school enrollment?

 

[iamgearyblvd]

The division placement has always been a clusterf** since I can remember. You have in the 90s those super SH Prep teams who were playing in D1 but they were enrollment-wise D4 or D5. I dont get it. I probably never will. I just believe if you have D1 players on your team, you play in Open. If you don't, stay in your division.

 

[CityBoy415]

It really depends, year to year, where the strength is -- and though the Open lifts some powers, it doesn't necessarily lift them all.

I think the Open makes it easier to win a Division title, but it's not written in stone that a particular division will be harder or easier than one ten years ago. Certainly, some divisions are easier with the Open, but a state title is a state title.

I agree and that's all I'm saying. If a team is a dominate team they will run through the first few rounds of their division title anyway. The OPEN creates better games through out the entire tournament and not just the final Nor- Cal and state games which is what the division state tournament does. These kids work to hard for adults to diminish a state championship because it wasn't the OPEN.

 

[CityBoy415]

Name a state title since the open that did mot have a team removed from the tournament, North or South?Four years of the open and five divisions (excluding the open) means twenty state championship games and I would bet in eighteen of the twenty games a team was removed, which made the bracket easier.

That would be like saying winning the Sugar Bowl or Orange Bowl is the same now even though Alabama has been moved to the Open. Don't put shaving cream on my milkshake and tell me it is whip cream.

Your still missing the point. I'm not saying the division championship is harder than the OPEN. What I'm saying is the level of competition in the division championships now is the same level of competition as it was before the OPEN. When you look at the divisions in the past there has NEVER been 8 teams in any division that were top tier teams. Every division has always has 2 teams that were more dominate that met in the state championship. Either way you look at it BEFORE the open was established teams had a cake walk to the championship game anyway. No difference now. The good teams in the division still have a cake walk to the championship. There has never been any division as competitive as the OPEN.

 

[CityBoy415]

So there are 16 Open berths, north and south, though one year the South didn't fill them all. That means the teams that are left are presumably the 17th best on down, though in fact that's not quite true. Upsets, weird decisions, etc., probably mean that at least one top 12 team is in a division and most likely a top 10.

Pre-Open, however, teams were stacked in particular divisions by enrollment (different divisions were tougher each year) and so Division III, say, might be relatively easy and Division II very difficult.

In 1999 (I think that was the year), we won the state title at Acalanes and it was one of those seasons when that particular division was very weak. We were a good team, but we were also really lucky -- if we had been in a different division, we might not have even made the semis.

Another factor: The quality of play among the top 50 to 75 teams in the state is much higher than it was 10 to 15 years ago. The top few teams were just as good but the depth wasn't there, so it may be just as hard now as in 2005 because there are more good teams.

I think so too. I think that the level of competition in the division is the same as the level of competition in the early 00's when Harrigan won his championships. What made his team elite is the level of competition they played outside of the division.

 

[OnBall8]

Basically, yes, there was a chance before the open that you could have an easy path, just as there is now. And, yes, both before and after the open, you could also have a hard path. It just depended/depends on how the chips fall in your lap..

So, while you say in '05 they had an easy path, conversely, in '08 they had the hardest path. I think everyone here agrees that last year the path was made easier by having Mirarmonte go open. It just is what it is. So your comparison to the past works and doesnt work at the same time, just depends what year you want to compare to.

In regards to gearyblvd's comment, before the open they made you stay in your enrollment division. Before they did that, a school could opt UP into a higher division, but never lower than their enrollment determined. I think all the schools that never got to win D1 got their feelings hurt and complained that all the best teams would never give them a chance to win. Lucky for Berkeley they got to continue to win nor cal titles even though the more recent teams could probably never match up against the old Gene Nakamura teams.

 

[ClayK]

When we were very good at Campo in the mid-'90s in D4, teams would opt up to D2 to get away from us.

As for that Acalanes team, I doubt they would have taken us in the Open. We were just not that good, but we had Corrie Mizusawa and an elite point guard who hates to lose can get a lot done against teams that couldn't overwhelm us athletically.

 

[CityBoy415]

Basically, yes, there was a chance before the open that you could have an easy path, just as there is now. And, yes, both before and after the open, you could also have a hard path. It just depended/depends on how the chips fall in your lap..

So, while you say in '05 they had an easy path, conversely, in '08 they had the hardest path. I think everyone here agrees that last year the path was made easier by having Mirarmonte go open. It just is what it is. So your comparison to the past works and doesnt work at the same time, just depends what year you want to compare to.

In regards to gearyblvd's comment, before the open they made you stay in your enrollment division. Before they did that, a school could opt UP into a higher division, but never lower than their enrollment determined. I think all the schools that never got to win D1 got their feelings hurt and complained that all the best teams would never give them a chance to win. Lucky for Berkeley they got to continue to win nor cal titles even though the more recent teams could probably never match up against the old Gene Nakamura teams.

I'm still confused as to how you think one team Miramonte affects the entire path. If they played in the division that one game would have been tough at the Nor Cal final but the other game still would have been easy.

 

[GBBall4L]

One of the hardest parts about saying who is "best" is that being a dominant high school player doesn't always transfer to being a dominant college player. I think I'Imari Thomas falls into that category – she's pretty much unguardable at the high school level, but there's a reason she's going to Cincinnati (not that there's anything wrong with that). DeCosta is a USA Basketball veteran, with gold medals, and will go pretty much wherever she wants because her package of athleticism and size seems like it will translate not only to the college level but to the professional level beyond that. I'm not sure that Thomas can make the same case.

All that said, I'm not sure who I would rather face in a high school game. Thomas is a beast -- she's too tough and strong for a quick player, and too skilled for a bigger slower player. DeCosta is a little more dependent on someone else getting her the ball, and she's not really as good a shooter.

So do you want steak or ice cream? Personally, I'd like to have both.

This comment didn't age well.

I'Imari Thomas on the Naismith watchlist for 2020

Cincinnati Women’s Basketball Star Ilmar’I Thomas is a Legitimate Candidate for the Naismith!

Has Been Named to Numerous Watch Lists

www.downthedrive.com

And not hating on DeCosta as she is developing into a complete player and will be a force at LMU but maybe the shiny major program was more for the hype than the fit.

Former St. Mary's standout Aquira DeCosta on her difficult decision to come home

STOCKTON — Nine months ago, Aquira DeCosta celebrated with her Baylor University teammates on the Amalie Arena court in Tampa Bay, Florida, after

www.recordnet.com

Maybe I'Imari felt she wanted to go where she was needed and not just wanted and was on to something. If you read why DeCosta left Baylor it seems like she figured that out later.

As you can see I've been going through the archives and see some of the names still active today on this forum. You guys had some great discussions. Shout out to all the norcal high school girls basketball supporters. Cant wait to beat Covid and get the girls playing.

 

[ClayK]

Very true. She's turned into a force at Cincinnati and should have a fine pro career if she wants one.

Isn't the first time I've been wrong; won't be the last.

 

[ankleassassin]

This comment didn't age well.

I'Imari Thomas on the Naismith watchlist for 2020

Cincinnati Women’s Basketball Star Ilmar’I Thomas is a Legitimate Candidate for the Naismith!

Has Been Named to Numerous Watch Lists

www.downthedrive.com

And not hating on DeCosta as she is developing into a complete player and will be a force at LMU but maybe the shiny major program was more for the hype than the fit.

Former St. Mary's standout Aquira DeCosta on her difficult decision to come home

STOCKTON — Nine months ago, Aquira DeCosta celebrated with her Baylor University teammates on the Amalie Arena court in Tampa Bay, Florida, after

www.recordnet.com

Maybe I'Imari felt she wanted to go where she was needed and not just wanted and was on to something. If you read why DeCosta left Baylor it seems like she figured that out later.

As you can see I've been going through the archives and see some of the names still active today on this forum. You guys had some great discussions. Shout out to all the norcal high school girls basketball supporters. Cant wait to beat Covid and get the girls playing.

this is more on decosta than clay or thomas. decosta was elite as they come in high school. but when you get to baylor, tenn, south carolina or miss st everyone is elite. not so much at cincy. just facts. some are scared of the comp and decide 'home' is better. when it probably is more that the comp was to much.

 

[GBBall4L]

this is more on decosta than clay or thomas. decosta was elite as they come in high school. but when you get to baylor, tenn, south carolina or miss st everyone is elite. not so much at cincy. just facts. some are scared of the comp and decide 'home' is better. when it probably is more that the comp was to much.

Based on what I saw of DeCosta in high school as you all said she was a phenomenal athlete. But I felt that she was limited in her development due to the system she played in. I think @ClayK said in this old post despite his belief she was the better of the two she still was at the mercy of people feeding her. That is the trap I see alot of players get caught up in at the high school level. But it's up to the players to work on those deficiencies so they can show the coach in practice they are capable. So I think being at Baylor it would have taken DeCosta up to her junior year to be ready for primetime there as opposed to LMU the skills and experience she learned at Baylor will enable her to make an impact real time.

 

[ankleassassin]

Based on what I saw of DeCosta in high school as you all said she was a phenomenal athlete. But I felt that she was limited in her development due to the system she played in. I think @ClayK said in this old post despite his belief she was the better of the two she still was at the mercy of people feeding her. That is the trap I see alot of players get caught up in at the high school level. But it's up to the players to work on those deficiencies so they can show the coach in practice they are capable. So I think being at Baylor it would have taken DeCosta up to her junior year to be ready for primetime there as opposed to LMU the skills and experience she learned at Baylor will enable her to make an impact real time.

so when you play with real good point guards you do well as a post. she had real good point guards. the issue is they were so much better than most teams game development was minimal. so yea she needed to do the work in practice. which she might have. but baylor is baylor.

 

[CityBoy415]

I remember saying at the time I thought Ilmari should have been a McDonalds All American and saying that she was the best player in the state. Everybody thought I was crazy. She wasn't afforded the opportunities a lot of the other top tier players got playing on nationally ranked AAU teams etc. Nobody also took into account that she is a year or 2 younger than anybody in her class. Looks like I'm not as crazy as some of these people thought. Haven't heard much from a lot of the players being compared on the message board at that time. If she leaves Cincy and uses her grad transfer to go to a top tier school she will be a top 10 pick next year. If she comes out this year top 25.

 

[ClayK]

CityBoy 415, you were right, and I was wrong.

 

[colhenrylives]

As a small forward listed at 5-10, it's not clear she would be a high WNBA draft selection. She does play biggerr, however. But the WNBA is a league filled with women 6-3 and taller.

 

[ClayK]

Thomas is an unusual player -- strong for her size, sort of like Paschall of the Warriors.

But even so, she can make some money overseas. The European leagues want scorers and Thomas can score ...