SJS realignment

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Yes. That's right.

Rumor has it there is a possibility that some type of tiered structure with a 2 year cycle of promotion and relegation could finally be implemented. Proposals 2F and 2H are trying to address that:

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

cifsjs.org

I'm ever the eternal optimist, so I am still holding out hope for a system like this. It won't be perfect either, but it could more favorably address the discrepancy between football and other sports that causes so many re-alignment problems.

that would be great.

to be clear again... this relegation proposal is a school proposal, not a section proposal.. I think the section has made it clear that they are not open to this type of structure for this realignment cycle. They said it's something they would have to study and potentially explore for the next cycle.

 

[MTsince2004]

that would be great.

to be clear again... this relegation proposal is a school proposal, not a section proposal.. I think the section has made it clear that they are not open to this type of structure for this realignment cycle. They said it's something they would have to study and potentially explore for the next cycle.

Yes, it's clear that it's a school proposal. However, the two ADs I've talked to said it's getting more traction than in the past. Of course, that still means it's an uphill battle.

I think one of the biggest problems will be people will just see it as a more complex version of the problems at hand. Instead of arguing about league placement every four years, it will just become arguments about "conference" placement. THEN, there will be arguments about league placements every two years.

There is also the issue about whether to split boys and girls sports within a conference. Sports like basketball and soccer can have a lot of facilities coordination between them within their league schedule. If the teams are in different leagues within the conference, that could create some headaches.

It's not without pitfalls and obstacles.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

a true relegation system would be black and white. finish low, move down, finish high, move up. just have to create the ladders and the criteria. that would be every 4 years as usual. So once you set it up, I don't see any arguing.

 

[MTsince2004]

a true relegation system would be black and white. finish low, move down, finish high, move up. just have to create the ladders and the criteria. that would be every 4 years as usual. So once you set it up, I don't see any arguing.

Hopefully. However, as proposed and as it is being discussed, it would be on a two-year cycle within each conference.

So the hypothetical idea is to create "conferences" of 12 to 24 teams, then create two to four "tiers" that will be named after traditional leagues within each conference.

Conferences would be up for re-alignment through negotiation every four years like leagues are now. Tiers/leagues could be by criteria mid-cycle.

I want to fully note that this is what is being discussed in Proposals 2F and 2H, not what is actually being enacted.

 

[John Mellencamp]

The latest...

 

[MTsince2004]

A lot of reshuffling in the North D2.

And the new GSL and MEL are going to be kinda brutal at times regarding travel. Splitting up all of those Vacaville and Fairfield schools is going to create some long bus trips across the Causeway for Sacto and EG teams. Depending on traffic, I wouldn't be surprised if Valley or Florin skirts the top of the delta and takes Hwy 12 to Armijo.

Here's a link for a better view:

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

cifsjs.org

 

[LeeCorso1234]

Why can't the SJS just have tiered leagues so sports can go up or down based on competitiveness? Solves many issues.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Why can't the SJS just have tiered leagues so sports can go up or down based on competitiveness? Solves many issues.

from the feb 7 meeting, their 2nd, they have a 2 hr conversation about this.
https://cifsjs.org/coaches_and_admi...4-28/Realignment_Meeting_-2_Feb_7-_-23-CT.pdf

I love reading these transcripts... it really gives you great insight into the difficult task of realignment...

But tl;dr: it's not as simple as just doing it. The Lodi AD proposed a 'pilot program' of creating a conference in the south of 3 leagues, tcal, sjaa, and ccal... just to try it and gave all sorts of great reasons why, and outlined a potential procedure, tried to solve some logistics.. it really is a well thought out proposal. And it seems to be very popular among the schools: This guy reported his informal straw poll saw a 90% approval rate. It starts on page 22.. but they keep going back to it where it dominated the study portion of the meeting.

but there are a ton of logistical and legal reasons not to do it, which garrison et al was very thorough in explaining. And by the end of it, they decided not yet, but it's the future. There is overwhelming sentiment on the committee to recommend to start planning for it now to put a pilot in place in 2 years.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

A lot of reshuffling in the North D2.

And the new GSL and MEL are going to be kinda brutal at times regarding travel. Splitting up all of those Vacaville and Fairfield schools is going to create some long bus trips across the Causeway for Sacto and EG teams. Depending on traffic, I wouldn't be surprised if Valley or Florin skirts the top of the delta and takes Hwy 12 to Armijo.

Here's a link for a better view:

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

cifsjs.org

there was a ton of discussion from the prior meeting on what to do with fairfield and armijo. Those 2 schools are desperate to get out of the MEL, because they cannot compete, and they think competitive equity is what their athletes need. I guess they are not good at anything, and it's almost like athletics is facing an existential crisis. So they both stated they are open to the travel.

The inital proposal moved fairfield, and left armijo, and armijo raised hell... what about us?

There was a proposal to move vanden and vacaville away, and move river valley and yuba in. Guess that didn't fly.

so this recent proposal 5A is interesting. They finally moved both out: and moved sacramento and river city in. The sac move surprised me. They are tiny, and don't have a ton of sports. They can compete in fb and bkb, but not in much else is what I was reading, and don't offer many freshmen or girls jv teams.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

It's still a head scratcher. To go from D3 to competing with the largest school in the section seems a stretch. There are other schools in between who might make more sense.

kimball:
the projection is that their enrollment will increase quickly in the next 2-4 years. Combine that with their relative success in programs across the board, it makes sense.

In the last meeting with minutes (2/28), kimball was an out of the blue suggestion that started to make sense as they discussed it, because they needed a tcal 6th team. And it became clear manteca wasn't going to be it. Someone suggested turlock, and a few other VOL schools pushed that... CCAL rep got up and said leave turlock out of it.

Kimball wasn't there. The tracy USD superintendent was there, but left before the kimball proposal was risen. The Tracy and West ADs spoke and said kimball would be a good fit in the TCAL. And it didn't change from 4A to 5A, so either kimball is good with it or they are getting bullied into the TCAL. ETA: the minutes will tell the story

 

[Rocknrolus 95361]

I read from another source that the CCAL coaches want to preserve the league the way it is (which is in line with the current realignment proposal). When the CCAL was first formed it was predicted that Turlock and Pitman would dominate and while Pitman has totally gone in the tank Turlock did not lose any league games for the first few years. In the last two seasons Downey has come on but the reality is that the league is weak after the top two. I have no insight into why the other teams don't improve, especially Pitman as they used to have good teams. I would surmise that a winning culture has a lot to do with it, and Turlock for a number of years has had it. They expect to excel, their JV and Freshman teams always are winners , feeding the varsity, and they're not afraid to schedule difficult OOC games even knowing that they could lose the majority of them. Now, all of these observations are about football, and that is by far the driving force in high school athletics (and college). But in the other sports the CCAL is much better balanced so that is a consideration. Adding Manteca and Oakdale would immediately increase the football stature. Is that what they want?

One thing that is a no go for Oakdale. They will not go out of the VOL unless kicking and screaming. It's a tradition thing. Oakdale has been in the VOL since my father was in high school. And I am 68. The Turlock Pitman thing I think came from new school kids like going to new school. That's why Pitman did well first few years. Then tradition takes over and family ties to Turlock comes back. Just and opinion. The TVL looks even tougher. And it was already in my opinion the toughest small school football league in the state.

 

[BoutDatAction]

Why can't the SJS just have tiered leagues so sports can go up or down based on competitiveness? Solves many issues.

Bc that makes too much sense. And the SJS despises the CCS so they won’t do anything that resembles anything being done in the Bay Area.. my own 2 cents..

 

[Scoop and Score]

from the feb 7 meeting, their 2nd, they have a 2 hr conversation about this.
https://cifsjs.org/coaches_and_admi...4-28/Realignment_Meeting_-2_Feb_7-_-23-CT.pdf

I love reading these transcripts... it really gives you great insight into the difficult task of realignment...

But tl;dr: it's not as simple as just doing it. The Lodi AD proposed a 'pilot program' of creating a conference in the south of 3 leagues, tcal, sjaa, and ccal... just to try it and gave all sorts of great reasons why, and outlined a potential procedure, tried to solve some logistics.. it really is a well thought out proposal. And it seems to be very popular among the schools: This guy reported his informal straw poll saw a 90% approval rate. It starts on page 22.. but they keep going back to it where it dominated the study portion of the meeting.

but there are a ton of logistical and legal reasons not to do it, which garrison et al was very thorough in explaining. And by the end of it, they decided not yet, but it's the future. There is overwhelming sentiment on the committee to recommend to start planning for it now to put a pilot in place in 2 years.

The Lodi AD is the former HC. There should be a proposal to have this guy be the Section Commissioner. His ideas make logical sense and his interests are overall programs, not just his own.

 

[mistark]

They key is that last sentence... "His ideas make logical sense and his interests are overall programs, not just his own"
My question has always been are doing what's best for athletics or are we serving the agendas of a few.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

and moved sacramento and river city in. The sac move surprised me. They are tiny, and don't have a ton of sports. They can compete in fb and bkb, but not in much else is what I was reading, and don't offer many freshmen or girls jv teams.

reading the latest minutes... looks like Sac asked into the MEL.

I guess they didn't want to be in the Metro, a D2 league, and wanted to stay D3, and see MEL as a competitive equity fit. Tough on travel though.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

kimball:
the projection is that their enrollment will increase quickly in the next 2-4 years. Combine that with their relative success in programs across the board, it makes sense.

In the last meeting with minutes (2/28), kimball was an out of the blue suggestion that started to make sense as they discussed it, because they needed a tcal 6th team. And it became clear manteca wasn't going to be it. Someone suggested turlock, and a few other VOL schools pushed that... CCAL rep got up and said leave turlock out of it.

Kimball wasn't there. The tracy USD superintendent was there, but left before the kimball proposal was risen. The Tracy and West ADs spoke and said kimball would be a good fit in the TCAL. And it didn't change from 4A to 5A, so either kimball is good with it or they are getting bullied into the TCAL. ETA: the minutes will tell the story

kimball put up no objection this last meeting (3/7); the topic never came up, so they must be on board with the TCAL.

The committee feels pretty strongly that Proposal 5A will be the final product, unless there is a super compelling argument to change it today's meeting.

 

[Macallan]

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

CIF Sac-Joaquin Section

cifsjs.org

6A From the afternoon session.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

The committee feels pretty strongly that Proposal 5A will be the final product, unless there is a super compelling argument to change it today's meeting.

minor changes from the last meeting:

CVC and Metro was a huge point of conflict, with inderkum and antelope having the strongest opinions of their fates.. they ended up totally reworking the 2 leagues in 5A. Antelope really resisted going to the Metro, with a major point being sports offered... but also, the section got accused of redlining the leagues... making the Metro a 'ghetto' league (my words, not theirs)... and what comes with that is decreased school and parent resources... and Antelope didn't think that was fair to their program and their kids. Cuz, lack of offerings, lack of coaching, etc. leading to fewer opportunities for their kids. For the record, Garrison took GREAT offense to that, and outlined the reasoning and history. But it looks like they made a point to increase the diversity of the leagues, and looks like Antelope liked the solution.

Inderkum really wanted to go to D1, and the Delta. The Delta basically said, nah, we good with our elk grove clique. And they didn't want to go to the old metro, due to competitive equity. So I think they are happy with the configuration now, in the new CVC.

then they moved woodcreek from metro to cvc.
they moved casa roble from d3 fvl to d4 gel

the other big point was Lincoln L... they were being moved from D3 to D4... but they wanted to go D5... cuz they felt their enrollment was going to plummet due to 12 bridges opening... then they didn't want to be in the same league as 12 bridges cuz the communities seem to hate each other.... odd. so the final product is Lincoln getting their way in D5, while 12 bridges moves up to D3.

eagerly awaiting the minutes.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

and i am looking forward to the talk of conferences and potential relegation systems by sport 2 years from now.

 

[Scoop and Score]

minor changes from the last meeting:

CVC and Metro was a huge point of conflict, with inderkum and antelope having the strongest opinions of their fates.. they ended up totally reworking the 2 leagues in 5A. Antelope really resisted going to the Metro, with a major point being sports offered... but also, the section got accused of redlining the leagues... making the Metro a 'ghetto' league (my words, not theirs)... and what comes with that is decreased school and parent resources... and Antelope didn't think that was fair to their program and their kids. Cuz, lack of offerings, lack of coaching, etc. leading to fewer opportunities for their kids. For the record, Garrison took GREAT offense to that, and outlined the reasoning and history. But it looks like they made a point to increase the diversity of the leagues, and looks like Antelope liked the solution.

Inderkum really wanted to go to D1, and the Delta. The Delta basically said, nah, we good with our elk grove clique. And they didn't want to go to the old metro, due to competitive equity. So I think they are happy with the configuration now, in the new CVC.

then they moved woodcreek from metro to cvc.
they moved casa roble from d3 fvl to d4 gel

the other big point was Lincoln L... they were being moved from D3 to D4... but they wanted to go D5... cuz they felt their enrollment was going to plummet due to 12 bridges opening... then they didn't want to be in the same league as 12 bridges cuz the communities seem to hate each other.... odd. so the final product is Lincoln getting their way in D5, while 12 bridges moves up to D3.

eagerly awaiting the minutes.

How is it safe for Grant/Capital Christian to play Kennedy, McClatchey and Cordova.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

How is it safe for Grant/Capital Christian to play Kennedy, McClatchey and Cordova.

this was a topic of discussion, but let's clarify a thing or 2:

grant is already in the metro with kennedy and mcclatchy, and burbank.

so there's that.

but the bigger concern among administrators was sacramento high, not grant.

Burbank high at the 2/28 meeting brought it up first.. worried about the gang issue with sac moving into the metro.
Then at the 3/7 meeting, Sacramento brought it up, that they didn't want to join the metro because of their problems with the other metro schools. They were pushing for the MEL.