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Thoughts and reflections on the 2016-2017 season?

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LoganHomer

Sports Fanatic
Mar 11, 2017
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With the open division game ending, the CA basketball season has officially ended. What are your thoughts and opinions on what you guys saw this year?

For me personally I'm so happy, satisfied and proud with the way James Logan played this year. Made it to state after 30 years, and those guys competed in every single game. 4/6 losses came to teams playing in the championships, 1 team was in the open division and the other team was the NorCal Division 1's number one seed. We were down in many games and we came back to win. It sucks how half of James Logan is against their own basketball program but s/o to this squad and coaches.

Also, S/O to Moreau Catholic for also making it to the states all the way from MVALs. And Mission's 35-1 season to top it off with the championship is amazing. They could have and should have beaten Monte Vista but I'm sure no one is complaining with the way this season turned out for them.
 
Its all about Mission and bringing home a title to the city. That was beyond special. And you can't forget St Pats and winning a football and hoops title. Impressive.

All year I thought Sheldon and WC were the 2 best teams in Norcal and it pretty much played out how it was suppose to. Both those teams rose to the top. And a team like Odowd was very disappointing. Tons of talent but got sent home early. Wonder if that happens again or they put it together?

I think seedings are getting tougher at the lower levels. Sort of similar to what we are seeing in the NCAA tourney but in the end the best teams prevail. You just have to take a harder path sometime.
 
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Random thoughts:

1.
Mitch Stephen's Top 20 in the Chronicle: Where does Mission ultimately finish in the rankings? I wish I had the last one that was published. Many teams will have an argument of being in the Top 5.

2.
Niamey Harris showed his skills in the NorCals and Finals. He is the AAA player of the year, Chronicle will likely name him SF Player Of The Year, etc, etc. He's definitely an all time AAA player now. But in terms of rating him against the best of the past, where does Harris rank? Which players are considered the best the AAA has ever produced? There is a list, but none of them won a state final. This will be an interesting discussion in the future.

3.
If the CIF did not have the Open Division, which team's in the Open from NorCal / SoCal would have been in Division 3? Just curious about the path Mission may have taken instead. This isn't to look down at Mission's win. I love it. But the creation of the Open Division pulled some teams away from the lower divisions and created opportunities for other teams which was the point.

Also, one can also look back to Don Collins (commissioner of the AAA) who I believe did two things for the AAA.

ONE: He got the AAA runner-up the chance to play in the NorCals. I don't think the AAA runner-up has ever won a game in NorCals (to my recollection) but the opportunity to play is good.

TWO: The AAA teams starting playing in their division rather than strictly being in Division I. Maybe in the past, there was enough talent for AAA teams to hang in Division 1. But the AAA is primarily a small school league now (only two Division 1 teams, rest are lower Divisions).

4.
Speaking of the Open Division / Random What If: Mission had a good record overall but was not considered for the Open Division. How far would have they gotten playing in the Open Division playoffs? This would be a fun one to speculate on.
 
It is time to get rid of the open and reduce divisions from 5 to 3. A state championship is extremely watered down in 2017.
 
They need to make a movie about Mission! Love that story! I will be visiting the City soon and will have a drink (or two) in their honor!
 
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What are you talking about? Reduce from 5 to 3? I've been watching the state champ for 25+ years and that has never been the case.

And a state that has 40+ million plus people doesn't have a watered down State Champion. I hate when people say that. Sorry but CA has the best sports in the country. It's not even close. Look at the road most of these teams took. I'm sure St Pats/St Vincents as a D4 school would knock off a lot of state champions from other states.

Lets give the kids some credit and hang those flags like they deserve.
 
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Can someone give a brief explanation of why this Mission championship is so important? I'm not trying to hate, I read the comments and I'm genuinely curious.
 
LoganHomer said:
Can someone give a brief explanation of why this Mission championship is so important? I'm not trying to hate, I read the comments and I'm genuinely curious.
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I think the magnitude of the win. The fact the AAA has really fallen over the last x years and its the first in city's history. Its a great story. You love kids like that. Pretty much nothing handed to them. Very tough school. Coach that believed and worked hard. Had his kids prepared for the biggest stage. The entire thing resonates with positivity.

Its one of the biggest stories I can recall.
 
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LoganHomer said:
Can someone give a brief explanation of why this Mission championship is so important? I'm not trying to hate, I read the comments and I'm genuinely curious.
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Simply put......SF public schools have been much maligned over many, many years.....justifiably so for the most part....so it is a major win to see one of their public schools come into the regionals and not only play well, but win the region AND then the state finals.
 
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It is watered down. Not only is 6 state titles a lot of "champions" but the open has dilluted the division championships. St pats is not beating Bishop Montgomery in division 4. Mission is not winning the division 3 state title without the open.
 
da real said:
It is watered down. Not only is 6 state titles a lot of "champions" but the open has dilluted the division championships. St pats is not beating Bishop Montgomery in division 4. Mission is not winning the division 3 state title without the open.
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Agreed, but this gives schools that otherwise would not have the opportunity to experience the chance at a title, a chance at a title
 
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hoopisthegame said:
Agreed, but this gives schools that otherwise would not have the opportunity to experience the chance at a title, a chance at a title
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And with the movement towards competitive equity rather than enrollment, more powerful lower division teams like St. Pats, Mission and Moreau may be moving to higher divisions, opening the door for even more teams to experience section and state title chances in the future.
 
LoganHomer said:
Can someone give a brief explanation of why this Mission championship is so important? I'm not trying to hate, I read the comments and I'm genuinely curious.
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There are many reasons this championship meant so much.
If you played or coached in the AAA you would realize a few things!
1. The sports programs in AAA are probably the least funded out all big city's in the country. Beyond dilapidated facilities, no money for uniforms, no money for transportation.

2. This leads to a lack of school spirit and pride. Your bench has to be your cheering section on the road.

3. The Gentrification taking place in the city has forced a lot of inner city kids parents out of the city. This has dropped the level of talent in the AAA greatly.

The pride and passion the Bears brought every game was something short of remarkable!
The greatest reason why they were great, was they never got rattled! Following in their leaders footsteps, Niamey Harris, their expression on the floor was emotionless!
To quote the best coach ever, john wooden "To play at your best when your best is needed"
Niamey epitomized this saying, in all games I watched him play this year.
And, it became more and more clear each game they advanced. That composure and willingness to refuse to lose is a quality rarely seen!! He will play D 1, depends on which coach is able to these trait in this young man!
For a team, that has/had the least amount of resources, they overcame great odds physically and mentally to win the State championship!
 
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Lincoln240 said:
He will play D 1, depends on which coach is able to these trait in this young man!
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That was a great breakdown and I agree Niamey Harris is a monster. He had 22 of his teams 53 points when they played against us and won by 2. We have some good defenders on the team but none of them could stop him. He's also really athletic
 
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Does Harris have the necessary academic qualifications for immediate admission to a high-caliber NCAA football or basketball program? By the way, it's still not entirely clear if he will make his eventual collegiate mark in football or basketball.
 
LoganHomer said:
That was a great breakdown and I agree Niamey Harris is a monster. He had 22 of his teams 53 points when they played against us and won by 2. We have some good defenders on the team but none of them could stop him. He's also really athletic
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Thank you.
I was at the Logan game. Another game, they refused to lose! Pretty amazing that they won as many close games as the did against really good teams, while shooting a deplorable free throw percentage!
That was their biggest bug a boo! Almost lost the state and other games along the way due to ugly free throw percentages. Yet, they won every close game of the year they played.
Btw- when teams saw Mission, they somewhat overlooked them. Thinking they could play at their tempo and beat them. SI- check, Vanden, Check, Villa Park- check, if I were one of those coach's, I would of slowed the game, feed the post and then foul them at the end of the game. See Rob Ray and the Coach of Monte Vista.
 
colhenrylives said:
Does Harris have the necessary academic qualifications for immediate admission to a high-caliber NCAA football or basketball program? By the way, it's still not entirely clear if he will make his eventual collegiate mark in football or basketball.
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He definitely said his heart is in basketball. As of right now, he is playing for Justin at City.
I think he plays one year at City and then goes to Cal Bears if they are smart enough.
He is a bright kid and am pretty sure he would be a qualifier.
 
observer22 said:
opening the door for even more teams to experience section and state title chances in the future.
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Why is this a good thing? You arent good enough to win your section or even make the section finals, but you are a state champion? if they go away from enrollment, why call the non elite divisions state champions? It seems silly to me.
 
da real said:
Why is this a good thing? You arent good enough to win your section or even make the section finals, but you are a state champion? if they go away from enrollment, why call the non elite divisions state champions? It seems silly to me.
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Because there is not an even playing field!! Enrollement, facilities, recruiting, not recruiting, money, money and once again money.
When you have private schools, who are fully endowed and can give kids free education. Which are usually providing a high quality education, you can not compete year after year!
 
Then have two titles one for private and one for public. Or create a NIT tournament for the schools are playing for fun. State titles should be earned!
 
Lincoln240 said:
Because there is not an even playing field!! Enrollement, facilities, recruiting, not recruiting, money, money and once again money.
When you have private schools, who are fully endowed and can give kids free education. Which are usually providing a high quality education, you can not compete year after year!
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Those are good points. It really is apples and oranges.
 
Another writer has pointed out that California contains more than 40 million people. To have just one division for all high schools (public, private, small, large, medium, charter, etc.) in the entire state would be unfair and unrealistic because the playing field is simply not level. Not even close. Way too many variables. One division might work well for a state like Wyoming, North Dakota or Rhode Island. But not California. Or New York. Or Florida. So, yes, the Open Division championship, for boys or girls, certainly does settle the question of the overall No.1. No problem with that. But the other titles, though somewhat diminished for sure, do have relevance and importance in a state like CA. Oh, and one more thing. The five lower division title games do something important beyond simply handing out trophies to five champions. The competition also includes five schools (10 if you include the girls) on the losing end. And don't be mistaken. Losing is definitely a learning experience. Most of us do a lot of losing, or failing, in our tangled lives. So learning how to cope with losing is perhaps even more important than winning in the big picture. But I digress. Nothing new there.
 
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Again a special team that everything came together for them. Homer, just the fact that Logan has 4,200 students some of the best facilities of any high school in State, maybe the question is not why all the hype about Mission, enrollment 900 and the smallest gym in the City...but why doesn't Logan win more often? Strictly hypothetically.
 
Why the hype of Mission and what's the story of the AAA? I think some folks covered it but let's give some concrete examples:

Mission's gym floor is slightly LONGER than a regulation high school court. I'd estimate the Mission floor close to being NBA sized. DOWNSIDE: While the court has the requisite width, there is no "sideline out of bounds". The WALL is out of bounds. Also, the score table and the benches for the teams are on end of the gym and the stands / bleachers are on the other end. This makes the game an interesting experience for those coaching, watching or in my case, officiating. I don't think anyone outside of SF will understand what I am talking about until you see it in reality.

Many schools in the AAA have grammar schools sized courts. Galileo has a large practice court but due to safety reasons, (not enough space on the endline), Galileo plays at a smaller on campus court. Balboa plays their home games on a small court as well. I found it amusing when visiting teams used to these large regular courts come into Galileo and Balboa during the pre-season.

Most of the AAA facilities are very old. Lincoln High has the best maintained facilities and probably the best court in the AAA. Lowell has a full sized court but it could use some modernization. Washington made an adjustment to their gym to have games played on a regular court but the fan seating is set up weirdly. Burton High has a nice facility outside of the bigger schools. But the rest of the schools struggle along with smaller facilities.

I know the AAA had a serious lack of funding before Don Collins took over. I think the funding has "improved" a bit and Don has worked with the school's to improve fields and stuff. One thing I wish that would be improved is the gyms. Of course, it is not possible to just "remake" the gyms easily. There would be a lot of construction and money needed. Too bad no one has put money into the SFUSD to help with school facility modernization.

That's just some thoughts on the AAA.
 
CityVibesII said:
Again a special team that everything came together for them. Homer, just the fact that Logan has 4,200 students some of the best facilities of any high school in State, maybe the question is not why all the hype about Mission, enrollment 900 and the smallest gym in the City...but why doesn't Logan win more often? Strictly hypothetically.
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I wasn't trying to downplay Mission's season at all, I was actually curious. Not everyone knows everything about the city's basketball situation.

Also, Logan isn't a basketball powerhouse but we're good enough to be a good program year in and year out in the future. I don't want to bash on someone but Fortenberry really, really mismanaged that program. Our school is large but we're good at alot of things. We have one of the best band and forensics programs in the entire nation, our track team is also one of the best in the area, we have connections to get students where they want to be. Not every school is destined to be dominant due to size. Again, congrats to Mission.
 
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I think the Open Division was created to combat the public vs private school disparity. In fact, I forgot to mention that in my other post.

One reason why Mission's win is so celebrated is that the kids themselves are San Franciscans. When a SF WCAL or BCL team wins, they likely have kids from outside of SF on their rosters. Nothing wrong with that specifically.

However, the SFUSD high schools (outside of a few select schools) are not known for their academics. So there's a lot of SF students going to private schools for the education plus athletics is a side bonus.
 
Thought the 3 epic battles dela and dublin had this year were just about the
best games you could ask for i think somebody posted earlier the 12 qtrs of
play ended up 154 to 150 with dela having the advantage.
 
colhenrylives said:
Another writer has pointed out that California contains more than 40 million people. To have just one division for all high schools (public, private, small, large, medium, charter, etc.) in the entire state would be unfair and unrealistic because the playing field is simply not level. Not even close. Way too many variables. One division might work well for a state like Wyoming, North Dakota or Rhode Island. But not California. Or New York. Or Florida. So, yes, the Open Division championship, for boys or girls, certainly does settle the question of the overall No.1. No problem with that. But the other titles, though somewhat diminished for sure, do have relevance and importance in a state like CA. Oh, and one more thing. The five lower division title games do something important beyond simply handing out trophies to five champions. The competition also includes five schools (10 if you include the girls) on the losing end. And don't be mistaken. Losing is definitely a learning experience. Most of us do a lot of losing, or failing, in our tangled lives. So learning how to cope with losing is perhaps even more important than winning in the big picture. But I digress. Nothing new there.
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Hey Colonel. I sat next to a parent, who's kid was on the losing end of one of the teams. He was not happy, as anyone might expect.
I said here's the bright side, he had a kid who got to play for a State Championship. He got it.
Here's wishing you great hoops
 
Someone from James Logan uploaded the pre-season match up between Mission and Logan. You could see Mission's MO from that game onward. They would play calm and under control and get teams at the end. I was there the first day when Mission played Skyline but missed the Logan game:

 
 
 
Change SI and St. Francis at 16 and 18, SI won all the head to head. Dublin's ranking based on entire season. BOD played Salesian close twice, league Champ and tough schedule all season, still a good team.
 
Last edited:
coach41 said:
Someone from James Logan uploaded the pre-season match up between Mission and Logan. You could see Mission's MO from that game onward. They would play calm and under control and get teams at the end. I was there the first day when Mission played Skyline but missed the Logan game:

View embedded media
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Mission kids were spent after the Logan game which many believe led to their only loss of season next night v. Monte Vista
 
Marcskit said:
Hey Colonel. I sat next to a parent, who's kid was on the losing end of one of the teams. He was not happy, as anyone might expect.
I said here's the bright side, he had a kid who got to play for a State Championship. He got it.
Here's wishing you great hoops
Click to expand...

... and to you as well ...
 
Bellarmine's undefeated run through the WCAL this year was impressive even though the WCAL was down this year. I was impressed with their effort vs Sheldon in the Open and thought they were the better team but lost a close one. The Bells return their two best players (Athen's extremely good as well don't mean to dismiss his talents) and should be up at the top of the WCAL along with Mitty / SI.
 
SF_Mikey said:
Bellarmine's undefeated run through the WCAL this year was impressive even though the WCAL was down this year. I was impressed with their effort vs Sheldon in the Open and thought they were the better team but lost a close one. The Bells return their two best players (Athen's extremely good as well don't mean to dismiss his talents) and should be up at the top of the WCAL along with Mitty / SI.
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I agree. The Bells were a better team than Sheldon. Sheldon got pretty lucky and they were at home. I really wanted to see what the Bells could do past that.
 
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