WCAL Coaches
- Thread starter kobe510
- Start date
Currently, Eagleson is the Mitty JV coach and Kennedy is not going anywhere. I was ranking the top three WCAL coaches in my opinion.
My rankings currently are:
1. Rapp
2. Kennedy
3. Motil
4. Schneider
5. Buckner
6. Unrealistic Expectation Parent(s)
7. Marcaletti
8. VC Coach
1. Rapp
2. Kennedy
3. Motil
4. Schneider
5. Buckner
6. Unrealistic Expectation Parent(s)
7. Marcaletti
8. VC Coach
I incorrectly ranked DeLuca. He should be listed is INC for Incomplete. Give him 2 or 3 seasons to see if he can make VC a .500 ball club. By then we will know where he stands.
#6 isn't higher up? You sure?
Actually if Unrealistic Expectations Parent had his way, that team would be even worse than #8 if possible.
Agreed. RB is vastly underrated because of the sub.500 records in League. But look at what he has to work with. He gets the most out of his kids. When he's had talent he's delivered. Unfortunately Riordan is no longer THE school as it once was for hoops.
The only coaches you can say "gets the most of of his kids" year in and year out is Coach Rapp and Coach Kennedy, in that order. This year's Serra team is a perfect example. You can complain about a lack of "talent" for poor records but then say " he gets the most out of the players." "Getting the most out of" implies overachieving. So was a 3-11 league record and 7th place finish overachieving in your eyes? The phrase is widely overused.
Marcaletti is new but is getting talented players in his short time there (we shall see how he handles the next two seasons), Barbour is gone but always got talent, Motil has won titles (and undefeated seasons), Schneider has failed to consistently attract high caliber players, Kennedy has gone 8-6, 9-5, 12-2, 9-5 in seasons without Aaron Gordon.
Based on what I've seen over the years and from what I've seen from DeLuca coached teams I'd rank them in this order:
Rapp - 68% win pct. last 12 seasons
Kennedy - 77% win pct. last 8 seasons
DeLuca - taking over VC program with 9-131 record last 10 seasons (6% win pct.)
Motil - 63% win pct. last 8 seasons
Schneider - 48% win pct. last 12 seasons
Marcaletti - 10-18 past two seasons. 4-0 against Riordan, 1-3 against SHC.
Buckner - 38% win pct. last 9 seasons.
SHC Coach - TBD
Thanks, but I will stand behind my opinion that RB gets more out of nothing. I'm not dismissing anything Rapp or Kennedy has accomplished (although it helped Tim to have a lottery pick for 4 years lol) However, I'm not convinced that any of those coaches you mentioned would elevate Riordan any higher if they were placed there to coach the same kids RB has been given. That was my point.
Give Buckner the talent at Mitty over the last decade or so. Then watch his stock rise dramatically.
You must hold down the fort as a Riordan alum I get it
. And I would very much like to see Riordan do well and have stronger teams. But that's why I was sure to state Kennedy's record without that lotto pick. . I would say Rapp, Kennedy, and now DeLuca would've elevated them higher just from what I've seen them do in the past.Anyone's stock would rise with Aaron Gordon that is not a question. I'm judging and what he's done with the varying levels of talent he's had while there. Has never gotten to 9 wins. Never higher than 4th place. I'm hearing too many excuses on Phelan Ave. One thing is for sure, Riordan will not win the league this year and will match the longest drought without a title (10 years) in school history.
Why isn't Riordan attracting the talent it used to back in the day? Are they more adversely affected by the ongoing gentrification within SF? Isn't part of being a good coach for a private school attracting good athletes to enroll in the school? As far as getting the most out of their talent - I have to list Coach Rapp and Coach Buck at the top of the heap (coming from a Riordan fan).
The process of getting $ for athletes is scrutinized more than the healthcare bill going through Congress. The administration wants to maintain balance, academics and athletics, but who are they kidding. This is Riordan. They need to look in the mirror and remember what Riordan was. And then they'll be able to see what Riordan can be again. Until then it will be CCS D3 titles theyre happy with, with the occasional invitation to the CCS Open. Again, it is what it is.
If your basing it on strictly wins and loses than your right. But RB has done well when given the talent to work with. Check the CCS titles and he would have won more had they not been elevated to the CCS Open the years they went to the Norcal Finals in their Division. Like I said Im not dismissing the other coaches, IMO the WCAL has the best coaches top to bottom in Northern California.
The Riordan administration isn't handing out athletic scholarships like every other WCAL school. It's actually a simple answer. You have to pay to play. If you create a successful athletic program enrollment increases and schools make money. Buck can attract them no problem, he just can't offer them, I know for a fact Riordan has lost several Studs because Riordan won't step up. Everyone remembers Florida Gulf Coast run in NCAA tourney a few years ago? That summer registration applicants went up 400% the online application server crashed as a direct result of tourney run. Invest in athletics with success on the field and court and you'll see enrollment rise. Regarding Coach Buck, give him the athletic scholarship money the other schools offer and put him on a level playing field than judge. 2 NorCal finals and a NorCal Semi Final last 4 years not bad.
Based on what I've seen over the years and from what I've seen from DeLuca and MacKay coached teams I'd rank them in this order:
Rapp - 68% win pct. last 12 seasons
MacKay - 2013 NorCalPreps COY takes over a talented and underachieving team
Kennedy - 77% win pct. last 8 seasons
DeLuca - taking over VC program with 9-131 record last 10 seasons (6% win pct.)
Motil - 63% win pct. last 8 seasons
Schneider - 48% win pct. last 12 seasons
Marcaletti - 10-18 past two seasons. 4-0 against Riordan, 1-3 against SHC.
Buckner - 38% win pct. last 9 seasons.
Now break down by coach who has more W's in NorCal State Playoff games the last 4 years?
Funny that you mention "4 years ago". I believe that was when the CCS and CIF adopted the Open Division format which really diluted, and in my opinion ruined the division playoffs. Take last year's historic St. Francis team that went undefeated in league play. They didn't win 1 Nor-Cal game. While teams that finished 6th place (SH) and 7th (Riordan), 3rd place (Bellarmine)and 4th place (Mitty, without their POY Kone) each won 1 Nor-Cal game. No one can say they had a better season than St. Francis. In fact those teams probably don't win 1 Nor-Cal game if the Open division wasn't there. I hope the CIF removes it or tweaks it similar to what they did for the football playoffs. I mean the CCS Open had consolation games. Ridiculous. That's why I like to compare league records.
But prior to the open division failed experiment, these are the Nor-Cal records for the prior 8 seasons for the WCAL coaches:
Rapp - 8 seasons, 5 appearances, 5-5 record.
Kennedy - 4 seasons, 4 appearances, 9-2 record.
Motil - 4 seasons, 3 appearances, 5-3 record.
Schneider - 8 seasons, 4 appearances, 0-4 record.
Buckner - 5 Seasons, 1 appearance, 1-1 record.
Barbour - 6 seasons, 5 appearances, 9-4 record.
Marcaletti - N/A
Last edited:
Mr Direct wants to go back 8 years prior to Open or 12 years, hell lets go back to the 80's than lol. Simple put let's keep it current and relevant to current system which isn't changing anytime soon.
Riordan NorCal Record
2012-13
2-1 wins over Libery Ranch and Marin Catholic loss to CN
2013-14
2-1 wins over Christian Brothers and Campo loss to Drake
2014-15
1-1 win over Albany and loss to Sierra
2015-16
1-1 win over Placer and loss to Manteca
6 Nor Cal State Wins in 4 years. what WCAL coaches have more than 6 W's in State in last 4 years? Focusing on league records can be fun but not an accurate indication of the job some of these coaches do in State playoffs and respected divisions. It's also an indicator of how great the WCAL is. I'd say coach Buck has represented the WCAL extremely well.
And before you go and knock the Open system Serra wouldn't have won D2 State Title this year, which I'm sure Serra would tell you was an incredible experience for all involved. Serra is an excellent example the last 4 years of how cruel the Open can be and how rewarding it can be, at the end of the day 20 years from now, Serra's State Trophy won't include *Non Open Team on it!
I went back 8 years because we have the data readily available for that time period and it was prior to open division which, like the example I stated in my previous post, clearly dilutes and cheapens the division playoffs with which you cannot argue. I tried to show why bringing up Nor-Cal wins since the new open system was established is highly flawed. Either you are a friend of Coach Buckner or are just a Riordan homer, I do not know, I have nothing against the school or him I just call it as I see it. In fact I wish they were good because I love going to games there. The best team they had in the 4 years you mention was the 12-13 team. They were loaded with talent and were fortunately placed in Division 4 that year. If I'm not mistaken they were the biggest school in division 4 that year. The loss to Cardinal Newman was highly disappointing. If you are OK with 10+ years of not competing for a league title then there is nothing I can say to you that will make you see my point.
And of course Serra didn't mind the open division this year since they won, but as you said the WOULDN'T have won it if all the Division 2 schools played in the D2 bracket! The lets get everyone a trophy mentality (or as many as possible) is a phenomenon that I cannot come to terms with. Maybe my generation didn't grow up that way and I will never understand it. But I am a WCAL fan and would like to see some better results on Phelan Ave. Although it may be a while.
Of course I support Riordan, unfortunately or fortunately the basketball season as a whole is more than just league play, (my point) ask GS Warriors and league best 73 wins! How did they finish? But they won the Western Conference that's cool. St Francis won league that to is cool, bet they would swap that league title for a state title open or no open. The goal every year is to win league and State. Serra's D2 State Title was hardly lets get everyone a trophy mentality. Coaches and teams play who's in front of them and this is the system that's in place today. I will agree with you it might be awhile on Phelan, current Admin won't be opening the wallet for basketball players like the rest of WCAL.
You make plenty of valid points about the Open, I've seen both pros and cons as it pertains to the WCAL. i still think a state title trumps a league title. If you truly are a WCAL fan than the Open was good for our league this year. Without the Open Serra and SF both get knocked out in Nor Cals to Sac and or Modesto Christian in D2. Anyway agree to disagree, btw who do you back in the WCAL? Do you claim any school?
You make plenty of valid points about the Open, I've seen both pros and cons as it pertains to the WCAL. i still think a state title trumps a league title. If you truly are a WCAL fan than the Open was good for our league this year. Without the Open Serra and SF both get knocked out in Nor Cals to Sac and or Modesto Christian in D2. Anyway agree to disagree, btw who do you back in the WCAL? Do you claim any school?
Under the old format yes a state title trumps a WCAL title. Under the new format I disagree unless it is open. St Francis League title and CCS open title trumps Serra's watered down state title. Serra would have zero chance winning a state tilte under the regular playoff format.
I went to Lowell, but my brother went to SI, my sisters to SHC, and my best friend (and my best man at my wedding) went to Riordan! Getting the WCAL champion eliminated in the first round on the road I don't think is good for the league plus people thinking Serra had a better season. And I love what Rapp did with that team. But we will have to agree to disagree on that point.
At least the regular WCAL season has more meaning now that the league tourney has been eliminated.
The league tourney was dreadful! If I am not mistaken I think Mitty played SHC five times in 2012!
The tourney's origins go all the way back to 1960 when the old CAL, which had four schools in the East Bay and four in the West Bay, created a post-season affair at USF for the four top outfits. Riordan won that debut affair, defeating Serra in a Monday playoff. The playoffs (before the creation of CCS, carved out of the NCS in 1965) were a huge success, drawing about 9,000 on the first two nights. The tourney lasted 55 years, in one form or another. But the CCS playoffs essentially made what became the WCAL playoffs redundant in the end.
And for all the relatively recent fans of the WCAL, it's worth noting that the old CAL's makeup back in the day was region-wide and it highlighted the dominance of St. Mary's and O'Dowd. Those two schools won the CAL hoops title 16 times between the end of World War II and the inauguration of the WCAL in 1967-68. Serra and St. Francis never won a CAL basketball championship.
Most interesting player in the eight-year run of the old CAL tourney: St. Elizabeth's massive Kevin Hardy, an agile 6-5, 270-pound center who wound up playing three sports at Notre Dame. He was an all-American in football, a near-.400 hitter in baseball and a center on the Irish basketball team in the latter years of the 1960s. He did not play football at SE. Like LaPorte, Hardy came from Chicago.
A footnote on Kevin Hardy: He was a key performer in what is regarded as the greatest and most dramatic prep basketball game played on the Peninsula prior to the advent of the shot clock, if not ever. It was the title game of the 1962 Peninsula Basketball Tournament at the jam-packed old Stanford gym. Since-closed Ravenswood of East Palo Alto played Hardy's St. Elizabeth's team and the affair went five OT's before Ravenswood won 60-58 on a Milky Johnson baseline jumper. The PBT was created in the late 1950s to accommodate strong West Bay programs that could not get a bid to the older and more prestigious East Bay-dominated Tournament of Champions. The CAL was part of the PBT from the outset. CAL champs did not get automatic bids to the TOC. Like the TOC, the PBT shut down once the NCS and CCS developed their own post-season playoffs.
Ravenswood would have been a powerhouse program had they kept it open. It would we a combo of MA, Woodside, and Carlmont
It was only three times but at least you won't get accused of "revising" history if I correct you...
Similar threads
