Good call. The theme that almost in all of these kids is either grades, attitude, drugs, or crime. No different than normal society but these kids had a gift.
Best Players that Never Were...
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Good call. The theme that almost in all of these kids is either grades, attitude, drugs, or crime. No different than normal society but these kids had a gift.
Is there any other program in the country that produces more flops/flameouts/whatever you want to call them than Mater Dei? Aforementioned Taylor King (Duke) was once the career all time state leading scorer, The Wear Twins (UNC/UCLA), Katin Reinhardt (UNLV/USC), Xavier Johnson (Colorado), Rex Pflueger (ND), MJ Cage (Oregon), Stanley Johnson (Ariz/Detroit Pistons), Miles Simon (Ariz)[ok Final Four MOP is really really good], DJ Strawberry, and Jamal Sampson (Cal) just to name a few.
I guess with Stanley Johnson it remains to be seen. I dont think he will reach his potential with the Pistons. He needs to have a change of scenery.
This thread depends on what your definitions of "big time ball" is.
Let's take Dominic Artis. Artis was a Pac-10/12 recruit but he was not a McDonald's All-American. He had the incident at Oregon [ he was never even charged with a crime], transferred after his second season and he played two more years at UTEP. He was second team Conference USA. I don't know if he graduated but he is playing in Poland this season. IMO, playing division 1 and/or overseas is "big time ball". He should not be on this list.
Iamgearyblvd calling Stanley Johnson a flop is comical. Travis Wear scored 7 points in the 4th quarter last night for the LA LAKERS, how is he flameout!! Both DJ Strawberry and Jamal Sampson (non McDonald's all Americans) played in the NBA and had solid international careers. Even a guy like Cedric Bozeman, who was a McDonald's All-American and had an underwhelming career at UCLA, eventually played in the NBA. How is Rex Pflueger a flop?
Carl Hudspeth Woodside High early 90's
Was on the list to be a Mc Donalds All American. Passed away at an open gym at Deanza JC.
Kevin Smith Mills. Had the total package. Second on the all time ccs scoring list.
Was on the list to be a Mc Donalds All American. Passed away at an open gym at Deanza JC.
Kevin Smith Mills. Had the total package. Second on the all time ccs scoring list.
I was a big believer that Stanley Johnson was going to be a perennial NBA all-star. He had EVERYTHING. Shoots, drives, handles, size, athleticism, winning pedigree. and I said he is still a remains to be seen meaning his stardom is still there being he is still very young.
If your definition is making it to the NBA and being the 11th-15th man on a roster being big time, then so be it. Congrats to them.
Im not going to dissect every micro word like you did. My subjective defintion of making it big time are exampled by Tyler Johnson, Jeremy Lin, very soon Aaron Gordon when he inks his new deal after this year. When you get that 2nd NBA contract and have accumulated over $50M in your bank account throughout the course of your playing career, THATS BIG TIME.
Agree with you on johnson. He is looking like a bust in the nba. isn't he the only 4x state champ in ca? Also rex plueger is a big part of notre dame team. he doesn't score much but he defends well and plays within the system. he was never a huge prospect like these other guys. taylor king is a perfect example of the over hype of hs kids today. was a ucla commit in 8th grade i think. please... guy couldn't guard a goal post.
I added him to the list because DA was going to be in the NBA but caught up in all that extra stuff. Did not know about Poland but his ceiling was NBA
Joe Mixon and Dennis Dixon. Yeah yeah yeah, say what you will about their football careers.... but certainly underdeveloped on the hard wood. Let's throw Chris Blackwood and Chad Lichau out there for fun. Anyone remember those guys? Two great high school scorers that to my knowledge accomplished virtually nothing after..... Eli Holman was a big disappointment. Decensae White. Somebody already mentioned Drew Gordon.
This thread is funny cause everyone is using a diffeeebt definition of bust. I believe the stat is 1.6 % of D1 players will play in the nba. Guys like Drew Gordon are super accomplished imo. Excellent college career had a cup of coffee in the league and will have a 10+ year career in the best Europeans leagues. Rex phluger is a stud. Will be a 3 year starter for a top 20 program. A bust is somebody like Corey Hazewood from Kennedy in the mid 90’s. Had offers to Syracuse and Kansas and never even got to play a college game.
Was thinking about Fred LaCour (dubbed a West Coast version of Oscar Robertson by some) but calling him a total flop would be inaccurate. The 1956 SI grad, a smooth, fluid 6-5 guard/forward, played for USF for the better part of two seasons, was drafted high by the old St. Louis Hawks of the NBA, played a tiny bit for the SF Warriors of the NBA and SF Saints of the old ABL and then lapsed into runaway substance abuse and died broke and alone early in the 1970s at a San Francisco hospital. He wasn't close to 40 at the time of his passing. LaCour, a mixed race fellow at a time when segregation was still the rule in many parts of the U.S., struggled with his ethnicity. He was a two-time California State Player of the Year at SI and MVP of the East-West All-Star Game in Kentucky. He never reached his potential. But he was not a total bust either. Bob Feerick, a former Warriors' coach and GM (and a Lowell star, Santa Clara stud and NBA player), said LaCour was simply not hungry enough. The game was too easy for him as a young player. He didn't have to work hard to be effective, if not dominant. The pros, though, were different. He couldn't handle the racist atmosphere in St. Louis (Len Wilkens was a teammate and verified that circumstance) and went downhill. A very sad story. A chronic gambler, he could not handle money at all. At USF, his academic career was a shambles. He remains something of a legend at SI, a truly gifted player who played during an era when the AAA was one of the best prep basketball leagues in the state. Tom Meschery, for example, played for Lowell at the same time LaCour was at SI. If LaCour was playing now, he would be one of the nation's top prep recruits for sure. He wasn't a bust. But he could have been so much more.
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Josiah Turner may be the top on the list as far as talent. Was on target to be Mickey D player. He was starting at Arizona and after several chances they forced Miller to get rid of him. Had 2 stints with the Lakers D league squad. Started quite a bit and scored at will. Just couldn't over off the court issues. Was so close.
I would say darius nelson. All time leading scorer in sjs history if I recall. i believe his brother played at vallejo for a couple years so technically some of those were in ncs. guy didn't play 1 minute of college basketball and had tons of talent. But it was no surprise if you watched any of their games during that time.
I thought Brett Crawford played at US International Univ in San Diego. He was excellent in HS (Phil Kess and Frank Avalos were the stars of the championship win over Fremont Sunnyvale with Lamson and Prunty in CCS final (Prunty started at PG for 4 years at USD and his younger brother is interim HC for Milwaukee Bucks).
Lin and Paly won the 2006 state title game...Drew Gordon was only a sophomore at that time. While he didn't have a "successful" NBA career, you can hardly call him a bust.
His UCLA experience ended badly, but he redeemed himself at New Mexico.
Where is Trevar Dumbar? Very good high school ball player. Extremely hyped.
I would think any kid who at least got his degree through basketball should not be in this list. Not all meant for NBA career.
I am thinking this post is for kids who were a cut above in high school that could not get looks due to grades and personal demons.
This board has got better about not putting "D-1" labels on kids that in reality just don't materialized. No more than 3-5% of kids called D-1 on this board really ever make it that far. Absolutely nothing wrong with a kid going DII, DIII (no athletic money), NAIA, or the JUCO route. Only a handful for NorCal make it to big time DI programs. Yes, a few get letters, asked to fill out a questionnaire, but in reality that's were most of it ends and other options are what happen.
I would think any kid who at least got his degree through basketball should not be in this list. Not all meant for NBA career.
I am thinking this post is for kids who were a cut above in high school that could not get looks due to grades and personal demons.
This board has got better about not putting "D-1" labels on kids that in reality just don't materialized. No more than 3-5% of kids called D-1 on this board really ever make it that far. Absolutely nothing wrong with a kid going DII, DIII (no athletic money), NAIA, or the JUCO route. Only a handful for NorCal make it to big time DI programs. Yes, a few get letters, asked to fill out a questionnaire, but in reality that's were most of it ends and other options are what happen.
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Apparently playing overseas in the Philippines. His Mom is Filipina and hence he likely has dual citizenship???
So I assuming playing for money, hence his college options are mute. Hope whatever money he makes, he puts some of it towards a diploma.
Here are some thoughts I would share. They are my thoughts, and just that.
I used to be a scout and writer for NCP. Back in the day it was more focused on High School players in general. There was less emphasis on ( DIV 1 ) players and more on teams and players overall. The site had a more personal feel, and I felt it was more in touch with the average fan in general.
There used to be stories about basketball history, more indepth focus on actual high school teams.
Things changed when this site joined the Rivals network. Unfortunately the emphasis became geared toward being a clearing house for coaches. And a focus on the top players overall. This is where the site makes it’s bank and that’s understandable.
Unfortunately somethings were lost in the process.
Here’s wishing you great hoops
Ah. You are probably right, sir. I got it mixed up with FL Int'l. Lol! I US Intl still around?
Larry the know it all of high school sports said
Last time I checked Vallejo is SJS and was in Demarcus era so " Technically Demarcus was all time leading scorer in SJS history since he is also state all time leader
Way to skirt the real question HEAT and go after a technicality. Nelson is the biggest bust on this list. Not even close. Darius Nelson never played a minute of college basketball. Ouch... Is he a convicted felon now? Didn't recall how that went. Maybe you can enlighten us.
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/high-school/joe-davidson/article9645629.html
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/high-school/joe-davidson/article9645629.html
Just looked up Stanley Johnson's stats at basketball-reference.com.
So far this year he has played in 53 games, starting 36. Avg 27.7 minutes a game, 8.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg. Dude is 21 years old. Has plenty of time to become a very solid player in the league.
Doesn't look like he'll become the superstar many (including me) were projecting, but calling him a flop just ain't quite right.
So far this year he has played in 53 games, starting 36. Avg 27.7 minutes a game, 8.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg. Dude is 21 years old. Has plenty of time to become a very solid player in the league.
Doesn't look like he'll become the superstar many (including me) were projecting, but calling him a flop just ain't quite right.
I went to school with the Manigaults. Brooklyn was a clearing house for so many playground legends. The things kids had to deal with could fill up several books, and has.
Moors the pity
Here's wishing you great hoops
A lot of people may not have heard of him. But in the Mid 2000's....there was a basketball player at Stuart Hall named Stephen Powell. Before he arrived at Stuart Hall, we had been okay at basketball. He was the player that put us on the map. Watching him play, was similar to watching Bryce Monroe play. Those two are similar in how they played. Unfortunately Stephen got caught stealing laptops with some other students, and he was expelled from school. He ended up transferring to either Lincoln or Lowell...I cannot remember, but he did well playing ball at that school as well.
Unfortunately one tragic night in the Castro, during the annual Halloween Parade he was shot and killed in a targeted attack. He was only 16 I believe
Unfortunately one tragic night in the Castro, during the annual Halloween Parade he was shot and killed in a targeted attack. He was only 16 I believe
Teeter Marshall was a flat out stud while he was at Jefferson high in Daly city they
would sell out games with no more standing room he was that dude.I saw him play as a 8th grader at st Paul shipwreck in San Francisco and he could score it from everywhere on the floor.
He was for sure a future pro if his off
The court problems did not arise.
would sell out games with no more standing room he was that dude.I saw him play as a 8th grader at st Paul shipwreck in San Francisco and he could score it from everywhere on the floor.
He was for sure a future pro if his off
The court problems did not arise.
killed at 19A lot of people may not have heard of him. But in the Mid 2000's....there was a basketball player at Stuart Hall named Stephen Powell. Before he arrived at Stuart Hall, we had been okay at basketball. He was the player that put us on the map. Watching him play, was similar to watching Bryce Monroe play. Those two are similar in how they played. Unfortunately Stephen got caught stealing laptops with some other students, and he was expelled from school. He ended up transferring to either Lincoln or Lowell...I cannot remember, but he did well playing ball at that school as well.
Unfortunately one tragic night in the Castro, during the annual Halloween Parade he was shot and killed in a targeted attack. He was only 16 I believe
Slain Bayview athlete soared high, fell hard
San Francisco, like every big city, has a mythical basketball team of lost souls who are...
I saw that kid blow up the Les Schwab Invitational up in Oregon! Led Mitty to the tourney title, in spectacular fashion! Check this excerpt from the LSI's website:
"December 28th, 2007 -- Liberty High School, Hillsboro, OR
Drew Gordon’s Four Dunks in Four Possessions. LSI fans either loved or hated watching Archbishop Mitty’s Drew Gordon lead his team to the 2007 LSI Championship. In the 2007 quarterfinal game vs. Grant, Gordon electrified the crowd by throwing down thunderous dunks on four consecutive possessions that brought the fans at Liberty to their feet and amazed at Gordon’s athletic ability."
Those were far from his only dunks in the tourney... I'd guess he had maybe 15 in the four game set. But those four consecutive really ferocious rim-rockers just about burned the place down!
This tournament, which was started up in 1996, is a 16-team affair featuring 12 or 13 of Oregon's best and three or four out-of-state invitees, mostly nationally-ranked powerhouses. In the 18 years I lived up there, I saw teams such as Oak Hill, Wheeler (Ga.), Crenshaw, that great Westchester team that beat Oak Hill in the final one year (Oak Hill's only loss in 24 games of theirs at the LSI), DeMatha, etc. DLS even made the roadie up there one year, the same year Drew Gordon wrecked the rims. DLS won 3 of 4, losing in 2nd round.
As you might guess, I loved the heck out of this event!
Here's another... The great but tragic Ernest Lee, Kennedy HS, early 80's. Absolutely no ceiling on this guy, except for his classroom habits. 6-3, built like a linebacker, quicker and stronger than anyone, moves nobody had ever seen in high school ball, and could shoot the lights out!
Grades kept him out of D1, but after a year off and a move to Atlanta, he became a total superstar, averaging over 30 ppg in 3 seasons at D2 Clark College of Atlanta. Unfortunately, the NBA didn't take a chance on him, and he never really got over it, according to people who knew him. He eventually took his own life at age 30.
Things probably would have gone a lot better for him these days, with opportunities like the G-League and all the basketball academies, etc.
Grades kept him out of D1, but after a year off and a move to Atlanta, he became a total superstar, averaging over 30 ppg in 3 seasons at D2 Clark College of Atlanta. Unfortunately, the NBA didn't take a chance on him, and he never really got over it, according to people who knew him. He eventually took his own life at age 30.
Things probably would have gone a lot better for him these days, with opportunities like the G-League and all the basketball academies, etc.
One more note on LaCour: Only three NorCal preps have been named California's Mr. Basketball in two consecutive years: Aaron Gordon, Jason Kidd and LaCour. Fast company indeed.
Let's not forget. The pros didn't play every week. Which would virtually make them ineligible for the MVP.
Dante Saywer was a BEAST at Macateer. probably the best player on the court when he played. Went Juco and was All-American there too...such a fun player to watch
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Clifford Allen (Carson HS in LA) schollied at UNLV w other flame out Lloyd Daniels. I don’t think either ever played a game. Clifford ended locked up in California Youth Authority and then in Florida for murder. Kid was freakish. Biggest waste of talent ever.
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