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CCS Open Division

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colhenrylives

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Sep 25, 2009
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Let's take a preliminary gander at a projected 2022 lineup:

Mitty... Pinewood... St. Ignatius... Valley Christian... St. Francis

So who's next? CCS prefers an eight-team Open bracket. The WBAL is way, way down this season. There are very few publics even remotely on a par with the listed five above. Hillsdale of the competitive PAL South is 17-1 but its schedule has not been especially challenging. Palo Alto is 15-1. Its current scenario is very similar to Hillsdale's. So is Evergreen Valley 's resume at 16-1. If those three run the remaining regular season table, they probably will be forced into the Open as a triple public sacrifice. It's never pretty in the CCS Open. The sole benefit for the over-matched publics: A guaranteed slot in an equity division in the NorCal tournament.
 
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If they have to add teams, I think Menlo makes it as the #2 team in the WBAL, but they lost by 40 to Pinewood. Worth mentioning Harker, which should be 22-1 (with only a loss to Menlo but no signature wins), but they'd get creamed. As for publics, Palo Alto looks like the best of the bunch.
 
TheHillZ said:
If they have to add teams, I think Menlo makes it as the #2 team in the WBAL, but they lost by 40 to Pinewood. Worth mentioning Harker, which should be 22-1 (with only a loss to Menlo but no signature wins), but they'd get creamed. As for publics, Palo Alto looks like the best of the bunch.
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Menlo is a shell of its former status. It has multiple losses to CCS publics (Aragon, Burlingame, Half Moon Bay) and isn't special at all this year. Harker? Not even close. The WBAL is a one-trick pony: Pinewood and no one else. As for the three publics mentioned earlier, none has a true signature W. All three would become female cannon fodder for the top five private/parochials.
 
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There is an argument that ALL CCS Open teams should be of the private/parochial persuasion because of the vast difference in the two educational/athletic systems. The public version is boundary/neighborhood-based. The private/parochial option has no such limits at all. Some have boarding components as well. There are no coaching compensation limits either. They are two very different systems. Nowhere is it more stark than CCS girls' hoops.
 
Oh, and one more thing: CCS private/parochials have won 30 CIF state girls' basketball crowns; CCS publics have captured one such title 34 years ago. Since then, zippo, nada, zilch. Maybe the state's equity-based lower divisions can produce a second public state champ. We'll see.
 
colhenrylives said:
Menlo is a shell of its former status. It has multiple losses to CCS publics (Aragon, Burlingame, Half Moon Bay) and isn't special at all this year. Harker? Not even close. The WBAL is a one-trick pony: Pinewood and no one else. As for the three publics mentioned earlier, none has a true signature W. All three would become female cannon fodder for the top five private/parochials.
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I agree that any team beyond the five listed above gets blown out. I thought the question was how would you round out an 8-team bracket if you had to. I would rather they didn't.
 
keepitreal.32 said:
So colhenrylives, did coach Picci stay retired or did some school convince him to return?
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He is currently retired, though there are some indications he may return to coaching in some capacity next season. His tender hand at the half-court tiller is missed in the PAL.
 
I think the CCS should explicitly define the round robin format they're using for the Open division. I couldn't find any explanation of it on the CCS site. To my mind, round robin means every team plays every other team. So if there are 8 teams, that means every team would play 7 games. So that's clearly not how it will work. Maybe they will split the teams into two pools with four teams each, and teams would play one game against each of the teams in their pool. Then the winner of each pool would play a fourth game for the championship. I've run enough tournaments to know that this format requires explicit rules about who is the winner of the pool. If one team wins all three games, it's clear who the winner is. But who is the winner when three teams finish pool play with two wins and one loss? Or maybe there's some other format I'm not considering? Regardless they really should explain how it will work, and sooner rather than later.
 
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SouthBayHoopFan said:
I think the CCS should explicitly define the round robin format they're using for the Open division. I couldn't find any explanation of it on the CCS site. To my mind, round robin means every team plays every other team. So if there are 8 teams, that means every team would play 7 games. So that's clearly not how it will work. Maybe they will split the teams into two pools with four teams each, and teams would play one game against each of the teams in their pool. Then the winner of each pool would play a fourth game for the championship. I've run enough tournaments to know that this format requires explicit rules about who is the winner of the pool. If one team wins all three games, it's clear who the winner is. But who is the winner when three teams finish pool play with two wins and one loss? Or maybe there's some other format I'm not considering? Regardless they really should explain how it will work, and sooner rather than later.
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I'm sure they will explain to those in the playoffs, whether or not they explain it to us fans is another story. I'm sure its going to be a little different than your average AAU tournament. This playoff will have seeded teams that should carry some weight in a tie breaker or "points" awarded for a win. Its the CCS, I don't expect them to do anything the easy way. Heck the game is in Santa Cruz.. there are so many better and closer sites that could be used. Sounds cool, but I'm skeptical.
 
Mitty... Pinewood... St. Ignatius... Valley Christian... St. Francis

In addition to the five you started with, I think Burlingame and Palo Alto will be included as long as they keep winning.

8th spot is wide open
 
Streak One said:
Mitty... Pinewood... St. Ignatius... Valley Christian... St. Francis

In addition to the five you started with, I think Burlingame and Palo Alto will be included as long as they keep winning.

8th spot is wide open
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Wide open... but possibly all teams that won't sniff a win in either pool. Do they complain that they dont get a chance at a CCS title or gracefully accept a free pass to NorCal and take the @$$ whoopin?? The age old debate of the double edged sword called the open div..
 
OnBall8 said:
I'm sure they will explain to those in the playoffs, whether or not they explain it to us fans is another story. I'm sure its going to be a little different than your average AAU tournament. This playoff will have seeded teams that should carry some weight in a tie breaker or "points" awarded for a win. Its the CCS, I don't expect them to do anything the easy way. Heck the game is in Santa Cruz.. there are so many better and closer sites that could be used. Sounds cool, but I'm skeptical.
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Exactly waste of time… gas money… plus
Dangerous for my old car… I am sticking with the NCS now that Clet has some competition
 
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Streak One said:
Mitty... Pinewood... St. Ignatius... Valley Christian... St. Francis

In addition to the five you started with, I think Burlingame and Palo Alto will be included as long as they keep winning.

8th spot is wide open
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We will know more about Burlingame (and Hillsdale) by Wednesday night. They play at Burlingame at 6 Wednesday. Both are unbeaten in PAL South action so far. If you had to pick a favorite at this point, the Knights would probably get the nod. They are an experienced (though small in size) and very savvy group that shoots well, defends and understands the half-court approach very well. In many ways, they remind some of us of the recent Lynbrook teams. Burlingame is bigger, younger and less experienced as a unit. The Panthers two posts are the best pair down low in the PAL, North or South. This one may well come down to guard play, execution in the half-court and tempo. These teams play each other only once due to the PAL South's unbalanced schedule. Should be interesting.
 
colhenrylives said:
Let's take a preliminary gander at a projected 2022 lineup:

Mitty... Pinewood... St. Ignatius... Valley Christian... St. Francis

So who's next? CCS prefers an eight-team Open bracket. The WBAL is way, way down this season. There are very few publics even remotely on a par with the listed five above. Hillsdale of the competitive PAL South is 17-1 but its schedule has not been especially challenging. Palo Alto is 15-1. Its current scenario is very similar to Hillsdale's. So is Evergreen Valley 's resume at 16-1. If those three run the remaining regular season table, they probably will be forced into the Open as a triple public sacrifice. It's never pretty in the CCS Open. The sole benefit for the over-matched publics: A guaranteed slot in an equity division in the NorCal tournament.
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6 would be preferred. I think St Francis best Hillsdale by 40 and Aragon by 20. And they would be the 4th/5th seed!

If you absolutely NEED 8, I would go Burlingame, Hillsdale, and a toss-up. Or give Mitty a first rd bye.

Talent level is way down it seems this year across the board.
 
One thing that would help, at the Section and state level: Honor all Open Division participants with a banner. It's an achievement to be invited, and should be recognized officially.

Of course it wouldn't change the imbalance, but that happens no matter what system you use. Remember, Pinewood is D5 without the Open, and there was a year Mitty was D2 at the state level.
 
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Would adding 3 sacrificial lambs to the already mentioned 5 do justice to the "open" division or dilute it?
 
Norcal_Fan said:
Would adding 3 sacrificial lambs to the already mentioned 5 do justice to the "open" division or dilute it?
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Well to play devils advocate for a second, it allows the CCS to ensure 8 teams to represent them in NorCal. Even with competitive equity, they want their best 8 to go as far as possible.

If they are worried about making the 6 most competitive tournaments possible at the section level, then yes, its diluting it. If they are trying to get the best showing from their section in NorCal, then its stacking your chips on your top 8 teams.
 
Final: Hillsdale 76, Burlingame 51. It was 69-39 after three periods. Knights were very sharp, maybe the best public in CCS. But that remains to be seen. In any event, they are now 19-1 and looking good.
 
colhenrylives said:
Final: Hillsdale 76, Burlingame 51. It was 69-39 after three periods. Knights were very sharp, maybe the best public in CCS. But that remains to be seen. In any event, they are now 19-1 and looking good.
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Scored 32 points in the 3rd quarter. Match up with Aragon will be telling.
 
It doesn't matter how many teams you include -- there will always be either some who don't belong or some who do belong but didn't get in.
 
letsski said:
Scored 32 points in the 3rd quarter. Match up with Aragon will be telling.
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For what it's worth, Hillsdale defeated Aragon the first time they played. By the way, this year's Hillsdale unit has the best record at the school in the last 30 years at this point in the campaign. Additionally, it's worth noting that the female Knights have never won a section title, a NorCal crown or a CIF championship. So what we are seeing is all fresh territory for them. The school's volleyball team recently went on a similar run but came up sort in a state final. Solid year for the San Mateo pubic school.
 
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colhenrylives said:
For what it's worth, Hillsdale defeated Aragon the first time they played. By the way, this year's Hillsdale unit has the best record at the school in the last 30 years at this point in the campaign. Additionally, it's worth noting that the female Knights have never won a section title, a NorCal crown or a CIF championship. So what we are seeing is all fresh territory for them. The school's volleyball team recently went on a similar run but came up sort in a state final. Solid year for the San Mateo pubic school.
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A final morsel of Hillsdale info: That girls' hoops unit back in the very early 1990s featured two of the Brady teens, Nancy and Julie. They are older siblings of Tom Brady, of whom you may have heard. There is just something in the water over there near the Hillsdale Shopping Center and Alameda de las Pulgas.
 
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colhenrylives said:
For what it's worth, Hillsdale defeated Aragon the first time they played. By the way, this year's Hillsdale unit has the best record at the school in the last 30 years at this point in the campaign. Additionally, it's worth noting that the female Knights have never won a section title, a NorCal crown or a CIF championship. So what we are seeing is all fresh territory for them. The school's volleyball team recently went on a similar run but came up sort in a state final. Solid year for the San Mateo pubic school.
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True, but note that Aragon was without their leading scorer, UC Merced commit Jordan Beaumont, who is averaging 16.5 points per game. Not that it would have changed the outcome, but does make the rematch more interesting.

I would think that if Hillsdale wins out, or even if they drop one they will have to (get to) play in the open.
 
As of Saturday night, here are the records of the three noteworthy CCS publics: Hillsdale, 20-1; Palo Alto, 17-1; Evergreen Valley, 16-1.
 
Evergreen Valley's soph Ryka Aprameyan hit 11 3s and scored 44 points in a win against Oak Grove. The 1 loss EV team seems like a shoo in to the Open.
 
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letsski said:
Evergreen Valley's soph Ryka Aprameyan hit 11 3s and scored 44 points in a win against Oak Grove. The 1 loss EV team seems like a shoo in to the Open.
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That score was awesome to see for Public school girls basketball in that section. 170 plus points combined. Love to see that
 
As of Saturday morning, Hillsdale is 22-1, Palo Alto is 19-1 and Evergreen Valley is 18-1. All three have games this weekend.
 
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