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Corner Bakery Showdown scores

Officiating was not an issue in the Carondelet/Pinewood game, nor was the relative talent/speed of the players.

C-let's decision to play the game in a 2-3 zone was a major problem. Gave up too many open looks at 3's. Created too many opportunities to drive against rushed close outs. Most importantly, it's harder to rebound out of a zone. Saw a lot of missed threes bouncing over the heads of weak side C-let defenders into the hands of PW players. Would like to see the relative numbers on offensive boards.

C-let also seemed uncertain about what it wanted to do in terms of half court offense. Talented teams that generate a lot of offense with pressing, fast breaks, and three pointers are sometimes stumped facing a quality defense that won't give up the rim so easily. This has been a C-let weakness in the past and seems to be continuing.

Nevertheless it was still a 6 point differential late in the game, which only opened up at the end because of the usual fouling to try to get back possession, free throws, etc. Could have gone either way.
 
personalogic,

Your assessment of the game was very good. You touched on so many good points. In addition to what you are saying if you look into my post under "Corner Bakery Showdown Jan. 24( Bentley) you will see I actually gave both teams the keys to victory before the game. Fouls and player rotation. Points scored off fouls according to Ol Layer had Pinewood ahead I believe 17 to 6.(actually I think it was 23 attempts to 6 in favor of Pinewood)

If you look at the productivity of both benches it was not even close until very late in the game.

The way Doc Scheppler prepares and rotates his players allows the team to be in the best position to succeed, regardless to whether or not a player is a freshman or senior. Ability should always trump seniority because the team's success is ultimately what should matter.

As a matter of fact three of the better contributors tonight on both sides were from freshman. But clearly the impact the two freshman from Pinewood, Stella and Brianna made allowed the Pinewood starters to remain fresh for the entire game.Both Stella and Brianna had points, rebounds,and provided excellent defensive pressure etc…. Pinewood never had any significant drop off in team productivity during their player rotations. Their team chemistry was very enjoyable to watch. But I will say Carondelet's fight and effort was good until the very end even with out a few key injured players.

The overall bench production was the difference in my opinion.

All you have to do is study the best. This year the Golden State Warriors have the best record because they have awesome bench production. It compliments the awesome play that the starting lineup has provided.


Paytc

This post was edited on 1/25 7:46 AM by Paytc

This post was edited on 1/25 9:01 AM by Paytc

This post was edited on 1/25 9:39 AM by Paytc
 
Ol'.... layer I was at the I had a parent behind complain about the physical play of Pinewood. I know Carondelet had more fouls because they were reaching a lot after when Pinewood guards would blow them. Fouls where call at key times at the end of the 2nd quarter when Pinewood was make run and was up by 16. Bade pick up 2 quick fouls during that time slow pinewood down when she went to the bench. The second the end of the 4th was the same thing but press Carondelet got away with some fouls and shoot the 3's well because when pinewood pressure the shooter they get call for a foul so they play off some.

Pinewood is a team that quick and fast that adjusted to the way the game was called that day. Great game but shouldn't have been that close if Pinewood would aloud to play there at all times. But that happens on most home courts which Carondelet was the home team today. I would love to see the game played at Pinewood I can only guest what the score would have been.

I can wait to see the Norcal open hopefully see MM vs Brookside first round. I cant say Carondelet vs Brookside because both team are below 4th ranking. But I think Brookside might not be in the open and when a D4 State Champion ship. But with 3 big school signees you would thing they would be. Faith only knows what ever one don't know. The fear factor of the unknown maybe happen.
 
I HAVE A QUESTION WHY IS EVERYONE DOWN PLAY WHAT HAPPEN BETWEEN MM VS BERKLEY. I NEVER HEARD OF A TEAM COMPLAIN SO MUCH TO WALK OF THE COURT UNLESS ITS THAT BAD. IT MUST HAVE BEEN THAT BAD BECAUSE AS BERKLEY COACH HAVE BEEN COACH FOR MANY YEARS AND FOR THIS TO BE THE FIRST TIME THEY WALK OF IS SAYING ALOT!!!!!! SO IF BERKLEY NOT COMING BACK NEXT YEAR DOES THE MEAN THE DONT PLAY IN THE WCJ EITHER ???????????

CAN ANYONE DEFEND WHAT HAPPEN DURING THE GAME BECUASE EVRYONE AT THE GAME SEEN WHAT WAS HAPPENING ?????????? WHO WILL SAY WHAT HAPPEN THAT NOTHING WAS WONG WITH THE GAME ???????? PEOPLE BEHIND ME FROM DIFFERENT TEAMS WAS SAYING THE SAME THING????????????

NO HIDING IN THE OPEN THIS YEARS BECUASE EVERYONE WILL BE WATCHING CLOSELY NOW??????????
HOPEFULLY THE CIF GETS A TAPE OF THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I saw the game, but didn't hear anything (then again, not listening for racial slurs). Officials did a good job in the first half but in the second there was a discrepancy in terms of how many fouls Berkeley had in relation to MM. at least 10-4. I didn't see it but apparently the point guard drove to the bucket, got hammered (no call) and MM went down the other way and got fouled. Then the point guard from Berkeley got her second T and was removed from the game.

You really need to ask why this board is downplaying the issue? You have a predominately privileged white team from Orinda vs. a predominately African-American team from Berkeley. Nobody is going to touch this issue; especially if there was a racial slur that was thrown out. I personally didn't hear it from the stands (as was said in the paper) and was sitting right behind Berkeley but apparently it happened on the court. I think Draper was just disgusted with the officiating and walked off in protest. It was very one sided last 2-3 minutes that I saw.
 
Norcal_fun I guess me and you was at a different game then anyone else. It wasn't a racial thing at all it was frustration because they had a chance to beat MM and the game was taken from and lease a chance to win. But they didn't complain the week before when the same think happen in the Pit MLK last weekend. What would the rankings look like if Berkley lost to Brookside then bet Berkley beats MM. But hopefully CIF can address the issues what happen this game because there is tape on the whole thing by a Berkley parent. I think refs should random picked for each game every where!!! Teams should be to pick who they want to ref their games not saying that happen yesterday. Just like playoffs each section should have refs from a different section. Norcal should be the same a different section then the 2 teams are from. That's just a suggestion. Home court advantage should be only because u are playing at home with the home fans nothing else. I give a lot of credit to teams that are on the road a lot and winning Pinewood and Brookside are some of the teams.
 
Norcal_Fan

I think what ballersdreams real point is WHY nobody wants too talk about how bad the officiating can be ???? we all would be fouls to think racial slurs don't happen. it happens all the time..... if you ever played team sports you already know ???? it happens..... this is a blog!!!! I personal would not have walked my team off of the court unless they was in danger of a hostel environment!!! that was not the case............... Bad move on Berkley play the game then make your protest ?!?!?! as for you so call SPORTS FANATICS >>> SUPERSTARS>>>>>>>> SEASON VETERANS>>>>>>> ROOKIES...... SPEAK UP
 
I was not at the game...did a Caucasian player on Miramonte's team
slur an African American player on Berkeley's team?
No Names necessary....
 
First, thanks to all who came: Players, coaches, fans, officials, etc.

Second, thanks to all the volunteers from Campolindo and Bentley who made the event a success.

Now, on to Berkeley-Miramonte ...

1) As everyone probably knows by now, I think blaming/whining about/focusing on officials at high school games is pointless. Officiating is very difficult, almost all of those who have exceptional talent, or the time to devote, move up and out of high school officiating fairly quickly. Those who remain are hard-working men and women who do a difficult job under stressful situations as best they can.

Those officials also do a tremendous number of games. Every official at the Showdown that I talked to had done three games the night before. One official said he had 35 games in the month of January. This is a demanding avocation, mentally and physically, and no one is in it for the money. (The rate is approximately $60 a game, and there are no paid expenses (gas, etc.) and travel time is not part of the equation.)

So to say that the officials are "bought" simply makes no sense. There is no significant amount of money involved anywhere in girls' basketball. Who is going to "buy" an official and how much would they supposedly pay? (Also, just consider the logistics, as no one at the Showdown knew who was officiating any of the games beforehand except me -- and I never looked at Arbiter to see. So did a Miramonte booster go upstairs at Bentley, ask the officials there who was working the Berkeley game and slip them $100 each? How do you think that conversation went down? Do you think every ref would happily take the money and then throw the game? I would love to hear a plausible scenario about how officials are "bought" at the high school level.)

2) Now, to the racial question. Three white males officiated the Miramonte-Berkeley game. I am a white male. Miramonte had two African-American girls and one or two other girls of color. Berkeley was all African-American.

I do not know if the Contra Costa Basketball Officials' Association regularly works Berkeley games, or if that league's assignments are through the East Bay Officials' Association. The CCBOA supplied the refs Saturday.

It is certainly possible that unconscious racial bias plays a part in officiating (as it does in almost every walk of life, sadly). It is certainly possible that Berkeley got the worst of the calls on Saturday.

I think, however, it is quite a large -- and unwarranted -- leap to assert that the officials were consciously out to make sure Berkeley lost the game.

As for the incident itself: I was doing the 30-second clock for the game, and thus was about 15 feet from Cheryl Draper. She had been complaining that Sabrina Ionescu was pushing off and extending her non-dribbling arm when she was pressured. From my angle, that appeared to happen on several occasions; it also appeared, from my angle, that the Berkeley guards bumped Ionescu every time she got within about five feet of the top of the key. They didn't necessarily displace her, but there was definitely contact. And the same could be said of Ionescu's off-arm: It didn't necessarily displace the defender, but there was definitely contact.

Reasonable people can certainly disagree about my observations. Some might feel Ionescu initiated the contact and was primarily at fault; some might say the Berkeley defenders initiated the contact and were primarily at fault. Others might say it was a physical game and the officials let the contact go.

Berkeley, however, like most teams, could not stay in front of Ionescu and she got to the rim pretty much whenever she wanted, and drew numerous fouls. When you pressure a guard like Ionescu, you take away the three but you give up penetration, and penetration often leads to fouls.

As Berkeley's frustration mounted on the court, Draper complained more loudly -- but never in a confrontational or aggressive manner -- about Ionescu pushing off, and when No. 12 fouled out, she wanted to know what 12 had done. At that point, a technical foul was called and Ionescu shot four free throws. One official told Draper "I'm trying to get the answer to your question (he needed to talk to the ref who made the call) but I can't now (the technical was being administered)."

When the next foul was called, almost immediately thereafter, Jaimoni Welch-Coleman picked up her second technical foul and Draper pulled her team from the court.

After the game, I heard two competing claims. The first was that someone in the stands behind Draper had used the N-word. As I mentioned, I was 15 feet away from her and did not hear it. Also, those who have been to Bentley might recall there are only about six rows of bleachers behind the benches, and the fans behind Berkeley's bench were, to my eyes, all Berkeley supporters. It seems unlikely, though certainly not impossible, that a non-Berkeley fan used the N-word behind the Berkeley bench in the midst of the Berkeley fans. But it could have happened.

The second claim was that Miramonte players had used the N-word on the court just before Draper pulled her team. If so, there was no communication from the floor to Draper that I saw or heard that indicated that had taken place, and Draper pulled her team when the players had lined up for a free throw and it didn't appear any on-court conversations were taking place.

This doesn't mean that such an exchange did not occur, or that Draper was not informed of the exchange, but from my vantage point -- and I was paying close attention at the time -- I did not see evidence of either one.

Again, I'm just one person, and I'm not claiming that I saw or heard everything.

But I did feel it was unfair of Draper to blame the "coaches ... and administrators" of the event for the incident. Given the situation as described above, from my perspective, I don't know what I could have done to prevent the use of the N-word by anyone. I don't know what any coach could have done.

If it happened in the stands, no Berkeley supporter pointed out that person. If it happened on the court, no Berkeley player overtly reacted.

Again, it may have happened in one of the two ways Draper described, or both. Obviously, such conduct is reprehensible and not to be tolerated, and had any mention of it been made at the time, we would have done all that we could, but the first we heard about it was after the game when Draper was talking to the media.

All in all, it was a most unfortunate incident. Berkeley has come to the Showdown in its various incarnations almost every year since its inception, and has been a crucial and welcome part of the yearly lineup. I'm hopeful all of the confusion is cleared up quickly and the matter is resolved. Cheryl Draper has always been a good competitor and the Berkeley teams have always played hard and represented their school and city well. It is sad that their participation this year ended the way it did.
 
Let's stop the whining about the officiating. So many of you keep playing the conspiracy card. It simply isn't true. Deal with it. High school sports is a microcosm of the real world, so start preparing your kids for the next 50 years.

Speaking of preparing our children for the rest of their lives...quitting should not be a value taught. The Berkeley coach was blessed with a teachable moment and she blew it. Racial slur or not, It's a disgrace and disservice to those young women from Berkeley who I watched play with determination and honor. It's a teachable moment, and the wrong lesson plan broke out. Adversity, and there is plenty of it in high school sports, reveals character. All girls will face adversity, they must learn to overcome it. Don't quit. Don't ever quit.
 
I agree. It was a very teachable moment and one that could have been
instrumental in a lot of the players maturation process. When Coleman
got her second technical foul, she said NOTHING...not one word. She
just told her teammate that the refs were going to foul out every kid.
She didn't direct it to the official..but his rabbit ears heard and
ringed her up. Also, there were 3 total T's given against Berkeley.
One in the first half and 2 in the second. Sabrina and the kid guarding
her were talking all night. In the last exchange you could hear both of
them talking to each other. When the kid fouled out, they exchanged
words and Sabrina waved bye bye to her. What I was told, it was during
that moment that words were exchanged. The following play Coleman got
her 2nd T and was tossed. Draper took her players and walked off the
court.

Again, I didn't hear any racial slurs from the stands
not did I hear anything from the two kids who were going at it; I'm not
saying it did or did not happen. I am saying that in the fourth
quarter, the referees did swallow their whistle. Whether it was a conscious or unconscious bias, I doubt that any official had a vested interest in MM wining that game. Like Clay said, what does it benefit them? After the game (again second hand info but from a good source), MM/Orinda parents allegedly heard that Berkeley kids were waiting around to start a fight and the police were called. Yet there were no Berkeley kids in sight...they were ALL gone. Was it a case of parents/players overreacting to the African-American kids from over the hill? Maybe.

All in all, it was a good game until the last 1/2 of the 4th quarter. Berkeley was right there but Ionescu (as Clay said) was able to drive to the bucket at will with no help on the drive whatsoever.
 
Why is it that anytime a team is losing that they think the fouls called should be even. If one team is playing more aggressively then they will likely get more fouls called on them. It does not have to be even to be a well reffed game. I hear so many times from the stands the ignorant rant of "Call it both ways!"

The problem is that we are human and when we have a rooting interest in a game we tend to see things with a bias. We see when a player on the opposing team stays in the lane for more than 3 seconds, but don't say anything when a player from our team does the same thing. We can't help ourselves because we want to see our team win.

We also tend to focus on negative incidents. If a ref blows a call that goes against our team, we are all over them, but if the same ref makes a great call we don't notice. Unfortunately, we are teaching our children that it is ALWAYS someone else's fault when they fail or lose.

I remember years ago when I was heading into a gym to coach a game and a father and his son from a previous game were walking back to their car. The father was complaining that the refs were bad, the other team was playing dirty and that the coach was at fault for not playing his son more. The boy, likely a freshman, said to his dad in a quiet, but mature voice, "Dad, I don't play that much because I am not as good as the other players." That young man understood that when you compete everyone will not be a winner.
 
I don't think all refs are bad but when calls are made 1 way that's not bad that's help. But not all refs are like that only a very few!!!! Clay most of the refs are try to get to the next level so they have to get as many as games to get there where they wamt to be. I know because I know a lot refs that are trying to get to the next level. Some get paid more then 60 a game more 100 depends on who they are working for that day. A lot of the refs do AAU games to and do 3 games a day and walk home with 300 at a good top tournament. If you going to talk about tell the whole story not part of it!!!!!!!!!!!! And how much do you pay your refs and be honest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you real think a ref will drive more the 40 miles to get paid 60 for the game!!!!!!!!!!!
 
High school refs are assigned by the association, not by tournament organizers. AAU tournament refs get assigned by whatever connection they have There is always an assigner not the tournament director. Associations have set rates, so yes some refs drive 40 miles for 60 bucks but I think most people would drive 100 miles a week for 240 bucks.
 
To machoopsSF,

Nice post. I agree with most of what you said, just a couple thoughts. All things being equal, teams that play more aggressively tend to get less fouls called on them. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but it's predominantly the case. And I've observed this over a very long period of time, so it's not an isolated case or two. Also, the pejorative "Call it both ways" isn't always ignorant. We've all seen games where one team is called for a foul any time there is contact on the ball handler, while the other team is allowed to arm-bar or two-hand check the ball handler without a call. Maybe the "aggressive" team is given some leeway? I'm not saying it should be called out as the reason your team lost the game, or a reason for pulling your team off the court before the game is over. Just saying it happens, and denying it also ridiculous.

On the topic of referee assignments, I actually know a lot of the referees in the South Bay, and have asked them about how games are assigned. This may not be tne same in all areas, but from what I've been told, referees can "sign up" for the games they want to officiate. I suppose this can be over-ridden by the assigner, but I don't think that's common. (I'm actually friends with Curtis, but don't choose to talk to him about referee stuff.) Anyway, my point is that this process doesn't necessarily result in "random" assignments. Rather, it seems like it opens the door for referees to sign up for games with teams that they "like", or even teams that they "dislike". Of course any coach can specify a certain number of referees that they do not want at their home games, but that only addresses the dislike side of the equation at their home gym. I honestly think a "random" assignment system would be more fair.
 
My impression is that CCBOA refs are assigned and have no specific choice. They can select days they don't want to work, and maybe geographic areas, but I don't think they can say "I want to do Miramonte games."

I'm not sure what desiring to move up has to do with officiating a specific game. I think almost all officials want to go out and do the best job they can in that particular game.

Again, blaming the refs is like blaming the weather ... conspiracy theorists can believe each is in control of mysterious, powerful forces, but I'm not buying, especially in girls' high school basketball. All of the officials at the Showdown also work boys' games, so I just don't see why they care who wins.

Finally, I'm sure there was a lot of overreacting after the way the game ended. I certainly was going to overreact rather than underreact and for whatever reason, there were no incidents and everyone went home safely and quietly. If overreacting contributed to that outcome, that's all to the good ... and if it didn't, what did it hurt?

Thanks to all who attended and volunteered ...
 
Clay,

It's hard for people of color to see an incident (post game) like this and not be offended. I think that it fed into the whole stereotype of we heard ______ from the inner city kids...lets call the cops. Did you actually hear or see any kids wanting to rumble with MM kids? These kids were already gone and yet being blamed for something that they didn't do or have anything to do with.

All the MM kids were in the locker room until Berkeley left. If nothing was said on the court and it was all good (as you said between coaches) then why did they wait? All of these kids know each other from AAu and were chummy before the game...were they scared of all the black kids? I don't know...All I'm saying is that by over reacting to something that clearly wasn't an immanent threat sends the wrong message.

If you look at many of my posts, I agree with 90% of the things you say on here because you know your stuff about basketball and eat, sleep, drink it. But the way the post-game was handled by you and your co-director was totally out of line.

This post was edited on 1/25 10:48 PM by Norcal_Fan
 
Ol' Brick Layer,

You may be right with that post? It was definitely time for a lesson. I don't know enough about what happened to comment on it. I would have to hear from both sides to have the best understanding. I do know it's not always easy for young children to deal with frustration. When both sides believe they are in the right? But more times than not we've all been taught the wrong lessons.

We could all use the "Win Anyway" lesson.




Paytc
 
Originally posted by Norcal_Fan:
Clay,

It's hard for people of color to see an incident (post game) like this and not be offended. I think that it fed into the whole stereotype of we heard ______ from the inner city kids...lets call the cops. Did you actually hear or see any kids wanting to rumble with MM kids? These kids were already gone and yet being blamed for something that they didn't do or have anything to do with.

All the MM kids were in the locker room until Berkeley left. If nothing was said on the court and it was all good (as you said between coaches) then why did they wait? All of these kids know each other from AAu and were chummy before the game...were they scared of all the black kids? I don't know...All I'm saying is that by over reacting to something that clearly wasn't an immanent threat sends the wrong message.

If you look at many of my posts, I agree with 90% of the things you say on here because you know your stuff about basketball and eat, sleep, drink it. But the way the post-game was handled by you and your co-director was totally out of line.

This post was edited on 1/25 10:48 PM by Norcal_Fan
One of the event organizers came up to me and said "We've heard some Berkeley saying they want to fight Ionescu ..."

OK, that's hearsay. OK, it's probably not true.

But if that was told to you, and you were the tournament director, would you ignore it? And if something did happen, even if there was a very small chance of it, how would you respond when asked why you didn't do anything when someone told you trouble was brewing?
 
Clay,

Did they have guns? I know airing on caution is usually the best rule. But I think Sabrina and her dad were big enough to make it to their car and get home by themselves. I also don't think Berkeley players were looking to fight her afterwards.(But I could be wrong)? I thought there was a lot of over reacting by many authority figures.

From the outside looking in I thought the refs were too abusive and controlling with their power. I could be wrong but I don't think J. Welch Coleman deserved two technical foul calls.That late in the game? The timing was interesting to say the least. She probably deserved a warning and may not have gotten even one tech called on her had she been warned to not be so frustrated. Or not talk to her own players about the frustration she was feeling when it was obvious the refs were looking to make a statement and/or control things.

Now I do think that Coleman will have to be careful in the future because there are other over bearing power toating refs both in high school and college. You do have to adjust to the authority at hand.

It should not have taken away from a otherwise totally well organized and nice event. Things are gonna happen we just can't over react because it makes things appear worse than they are. Girls basketball has come too far to have to deal with any unnecessary setbacks.


Paytc

This post was edited on 1/26 8:19 AM by Paytc
 
Know we know who was accused of the racial slur ???? But to call the police ????
Have you ever locked your car door when you felt you was in DANGER ???? We don't call the police every time
We fill like where in Danger.? Or some do ? But I don't believe the Berkley coach would allow them to hang around the gym to fight???
Remember they did walk off of the court. If they wanted to fight it would have happen on the court........ YOU JUST OVER REACTED. MR DIRECTOR
 
Yes always be cautions of threats better to be safe then sorry in the end. Players in the heat of the moment will say thinks they will regret at the end of the day. But should this incident be swept under the rug because who will learn for all what happen during the game and after the game. We players are under a lot stress because thinks aren't going their way on the court things do happen out of character. Like I always say mental is the biggest part of the game and it seam their was metal breakdown that night. The refs that game should have a warning first and let the coaches know what was happening on the court. That is call controlling the game before it get out of hand like it did. Film of the game needs to be sent to the CIF and CCBOD so they can decide what kind of penalties need or not need to be done. Ref can be requested to ref games by coaches just like the can blackball them to from doing certain teams. If team goes to another teams house most of the time the ref will be there from the year before. So don't tell this don't happen Clay because I know how it works. This been going on for years and years. But lets talk about players waiting after a game to fight, they should be suspended and kick off the team no need for all that bad sports mans ship.

THIS NEEDS TO BE USED FOR LIFE LESSON PLAYERS ARE NOT INVISBLE FOR THEY ACTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REFS SHOULD CONTROL THE GAME BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND NOT DICTATE THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME IN ANY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Baller

What your saying is to suspend the ones that was waiting outside to fight ? But thier was nobody waiting to fight??? Or suspend them because one of the organizers said they wanted to fight ???? Or why not just suspend them for walking off the court ???? Or lets suspend the person or persons for racial slurs ???? Im one of the few that agree with your harsh opinions Lol !?!?! Not this one you lost me on this ?!?!?

This post was edited on 1/26 1:29 PM by luvthegame21
 
Originally posted by luvthegame21:
Know we know who was accused of the racial slur ???? But to call the police ????
Have you ever locked your car door when you felt you was in DANGER ???? We don't call the police every time
We fill like where in Danger.? Or some do ? But I don't believe the Berkley coach would allow them to hang around the gym to fight???
Remember they did walk off of the court. If they wanted to fight it would have happen on the court........ YOU JUST OVER REACTED. MR DIRECTOR
When there is the safety of students involved, I would rather overreact.

I personally did not feel it was a dangerous situation, but I have been wrong before.

And the Berkeley coach was talking to the media while her players were in the gym. And there were players still in the gym after the coaches had left (or at least when I could no longer see the coaches). Again, I personally did not feel there was any danger, but there had been reports from other people that there was talk of fighting with specific Miramonte players.

The other administrators on site suggested that we call the police, and again, I would rather err on the side of being too cautious than not being cautious enough. Others might disagree ...
 
Clay,

There is nothing more important than the health,well being, and safety of our children.

I think the refs were more the problem than anyone else. The refs can stop the game and warn the coaches talk to their players about what consequences they might face if this or that continues to happen. I also think the tone of the officiating should be set early. And coaches have to know how to help their young players manage times of frustration.

Are we all just in this only to win every time? I have meet some of the biggest winners, but no one wins all the time. We must teach our children the right lessons. And hold ourselves accountable when we make mistakes too.

While Ol Layer rightfully commented on this being a good time to teach the kids a lesson, the adults can learn from this too.
I have yet too meet anyone who had all the answers.

Although I am placing much of the blame on the refs, it is only because they had the power to prevent things from getting out of hand. By setting the tone early...Many of the things that may have or may not have happened could have been prevented. Do not wait until the last few minutes. There should be a lesson here for all to learn.

Refs,coaches,players,parents,directors,fans,and siblings can all get better.


Paytc
 
Clay,

It is hearsay! I've said hundreds of times...I want to beat someone's butt but you don't see people calling the police when they hear that? You didn't hear it, yet reacted immediately. To answer your question: I would not have ignored it. If someone had told me the exact same thing (and I was the tourney director), I would have investigated outside to see if there was any imminent threat and not take the word of some overreacting lamorinda parents. IF there were kids outside, as a director, I would have told them to leave and if, and ONLY IF, they did not listen, I would have called the police. You need to investigate, see if there is a threat then make a call. Your parents/players (and maybe even you unconsciously), jumped to conclusions because you heard the kids from Berkeley was waiting outside to beat up Ionescu.

Like I said, you don't know what it's like to be a person of color and will never know what feelings this type of overreaction evokes. We're not even touching the whole other incident of your co-director and the parent from Berkeley.
 
Norcal_Fan

Thats spot on!!!!! why make a bad situation into a police matter ??? you should have security!?!?!
 
JUST LIKE I SAID THEY ARE GOING TO DOWN PLAY IT ANY WAY THEY CAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This post was edited on 1/26 3:05 PM by ballersdreams
 
Why does no one want to talk about the racial slur??????????? Right is right but wrong is wrong !!!!!!!! Racial slur should be always addressed because this day of time the majority of younger generation moved on from this. Racial slur only come from up bring of any race players parents. Majority of younger are color behind these days. The other issue that day was that a coach took their team off the court instead of trying to solve the situation right there and then. Teaching kids to quit is wrong in all different ways is always wrong. Just like the movie "Salma" Dr. King solved the problem before walking across the bridge. He never quit just solve the problem before he to actions that he would regret in the end.


SO WITH SAYING THE HOPEFULLY THIS GAME WAS A LIFE LESSON THAT PLAYERS CAN LOOK BACK AND SAY THAT THE SITUATION DURING THAT GAME WAS ALL WRONG IN MANY WAYS. THAT THEY SHOULD SOLVE PROBLEM BEFORE TAKING ACTION THAT THEY WILL REGRET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Why is the subject no one wants to talk about on both sides ??? Think I know why is an embarrassment to both teams !!!!!!!!!!!
 
still no answers is this going to be swept under the rug like all racial issues are these days and with bad judgement to walk away and not solve the problem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ok ballersdreams,

I didn't personally hear any racial comments but there could very well have been a racial slur made. We all live in America. A country that is far from perfect.

"My feelings are…. "letting someone else define you is a form of ignorance far greater than a person who would make a negative or racial comment". Paytc




This post was edited on 1/29 12:56 PM by Paytc
 
I know Gil Lemmon has investigated. He has asked me questions via e-mail. I have also talked to other administrators.

So what would you do, ballersdreams? How would you make sure this wasn't swept under the rug?
 
I think the player should apologize to her teammates and coaches for things that happen during the heat of the moment. And apologize to the other team for what was said and let them know that not in her character. Then the coach that quit the game apologize to her team for the let down she cause by quitting and not trying to solve the problem on hand at that time. In the day and age of time coaches can discuss things out instead of quitting on their team. Everybody has a time in their life that someone took the out of character and they said some thing the will regret for a long time. But being a coach is being a teacher so they need to watch what they are teaching their players by quitting. Because like the old saying "Being quitter is all a going to be quitter know matter want" that's not a good life lesson to these players these days or any day. Coaches need to teacher players when there is a problem you should try to solve the problem right there and then before just leaving. Teach these player you can solve thinks by talking it out and leave the situation open at hand.

In the end, Play and Coach need to be accountable for there action they took that day MM vs Berkeley and I not talking about suspending anyone just a public apology to clear their actions that day. That will let other players and coaches its was wrong in what happen that day so players and coaches can work things out by just communicating with each other things that are going on during the game.
 
At this point, there's no proof that anything was said to anyone. It is unreasonable to expect an apology for an act that didn't occur.

Your assumption is that Sabrina, or some Miramonte player, said something. Do you have any proof of that? Do you know which Berkeley player heard it? At this point, I've heard nothing to support that.

Now, I'm not saying it didn't happen, and if it did, then your scenario is on the button.

But what if it didn't, or there was some kind of misunderstanding or botched communication? Then why would anyone from Miramonte need to apologize?

And if something came from the stands, which I find unlikely as I was sitting right there and the people behind the bench were Berkeley fans, who's to say that person was from Miramonte? Should the Miramonte coach apologize for some random person in the stands? Should I?

I think the investigation has to come first. If indeed other people heard a voice from the stands, or players step forward to say they were insulted by racial slurs, then yes, there should be consequences. But at least to me, it's unclear what happened, and if indeed there is anything to apologize for.
 
One thing was clear, our coach got frustrated after several technical foul calls and with game completely out of reach she pulled the squad off the floor. Players follow their coaches lead. This was not one of Berkeley High's finer moments.
 
Yep. At this point there is not much anyone can do, unless people step forward. It's possible that both teams want to put this behind them and just move forward. Clay, there isn't anything you need to be apologizing for. I understand that you were trying to do what was best at the time for ALL the people involved. I get it. What I do not get and hope will happen, is that Harold Bend (just found out his name) reaches out to the Berkeley coach/parent and apologize for his unprofessional actions. As a person in charge, he should not have been screaming at a parent and instigating it. Is this the same guy who kept rambling on at the WCJ? Almost every person in the stands was telling this guy to shut up, well at least within 5 feel hearing lol. Bottom line is that guy has NO business acting the way he did and could really hurt the overall perception of the WCJ. Just my two cents.

Again, you put on a great event (again) and look forward to see who you get next year.
 
After reading through this thread, I figured I would weigh in on a couple of topics regarding the officials and assignments. Note that I wasn't at the game so I can't provide an opinion on what occurred.

I am involved with several officiating groups. With all groups I'm involved with, officials are assigned to games by a member or members of the group. They don't self-assign themselves but can block out dates, locations, or teams where the official may have a conflict.

Officials get paid very little to work these games. The CCS mandates a maximum pay of a little under $70 for varsity games and other sections pay the same or slightly higher amounts.

You would be amazed at how far some officials will drive to ref a game. We don't get travel pay, gas money, or expenses reimbursed in most cases. We do it because we love basketball and officiating, and some (maybe many) of us are trying to elevate our games to the next level.

Clay, as an official, I appreciate your post regarding officials and the work that we go through during a season. The teams definitely work very hard to prepare for games and most of us realize that we would be doing an injustice to the game if we didn't put in the same amount of effort and preparation.
 
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