(Monterey Trail) Mustangs to the Delta?

[MTsince2004]

In this morning's Elk Grove Citizen (football only):

In conversations with those “in the know” it appears as though Monterey Trail’s five-year dominance over Metro Conference football may be over. There’s one more academic school year remaining with the current league/conference setups, but the Mustangs may play football (only) next year in the Delta League.
...
The other alternative would be to play an independent schedule, with the possible assurance Monterey Trail would have a spot in the playoffs. However, one issue for teams like Monterey Trail (and Elk Grove has had this issue, too) is finding opponents. Not too many schools like to schedule near-certain losses.

We may hear soon on this matter.

Was this the year of the sophomore?

Lots of sophomores played quality minutes for their high school football team this season.

www.egcitizen.com

 

[MTsince2004]

The process requires the Delta teams to vote unanimously in favor of the proposal. Supposedly, a similar proposal to join the SFL last year was voted down 5-1.

 

[Santa Ball]

The process requires the Delta teams to vote unanimously in favor of the proposal. Supposedly, a similar proposal to join the SFL last year was voted down 5-1.

MT, was that SFL vote for football only. Also was it that "the alleged SFL schools" voted No? I would think Trail in the SFL would be a fan pleaser.

 

[MTsince2004]

MT, was that SFL vote for football only. Also was it that "the alleged SFL schools" voted No? I would think Trail in the SFL would be a fan pleaser.

Yes, football only. They would have moved in to replace Grant. There was only one vote in favor of MT moving to the SFL for two seasons.

The reason I say "supposedly" is only because I have not confirmed that with anyone on the coaching staff. However, I assure you, I have no capacity to fabricate this story, and it was talked about openly amongst many different groups of people last year. Media, other school's ADs, etc.

 

[M.C. fan]

That for Football only makes sense for Monterey Trail. Evaluate after 3 seasons to ensure equality in league. We play in Tri-City for Basketball against better competition than the Trans Valley league where all of our other teams play. Wanna be the best, play with the best and beat the best!

 

[pastyfastquick3]

MT would have been a MUCH better fit for the SFL than the Grant disaster.

I think MT would pose a bigger threat to Folsom most years over OR, Rocklin, and DO.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Monterey Trail in the Delta makes so much sense. Not just football. Switch out MT with Davis. Geographically, it's a no brainer. Competitively, it works.

But for football:
jesuit
elk grove
sheldon
monterey trail

it would strengthen the league... then maybe the Delta gets the SFL bias that MTsince2004 keeps talking about.

 

[RidgeRider]

The process requires the Delta teams to vote unanimously in favor of the proposal. Supposedly, a similar proposal to join the SFL last year was voted down 5-1.

MT would be a good addition to the SFL but wonder if it was just that Elk Grove was too far away and that Grant didn't work out as hoped. They might be waiting for another local rivalry program to emerge, but not sure who that would be.

 

[MTsince2004]

Monterey Trail in the Delta makes so much sense. Not just football. Switch out MT with Davis. Geographically, it's a no brainer. Competitively, it works.

But for football:
jesuit
elk grove
sheldon
monterey trail

it would strengthen the league... then maybe the Delta gets the SFL bias that MTsince2004 keeps talking about.

Exactly. Where do you think all of my "conspiracy theory" rants about league-bias came from? I knew the SFL had voted against MT membership both during the Spring 2021 Covid season and the 2022-23 regular seasons. I knew that the Metro voted against MT going independent. Now, if the Delta also votes the proposal down, how can anyone look at "league strength" as anything other than a manufactured, orchestrated, and rationed commodity in which everyone does not have reasonable and fair access?

 

[MTsince2004]

MT would be a good addition to the SFL but wonder if it was just that Elk Grove was too far away and that Grant didn't work out as hoped. They might be waiting for another local rivalry program to emerge, but not sure who that would be.

One reason stated was that the SFL teams didn't want an odd number of teams in the league anymore. However, MT to the Delta would make both the Metro and the Delta even numbered again.

 

[salgovernaleisaturtle]

Exactly. Where do you think all of my "conspiracy theory" rants about league-bias came from? I knew the SFL had voted against MT membership both during the Spring 2021 Covid season and the 2022-23 regular seasons. I knew that the Metro voted against MT going independent. Now, if the Delta also votes the proposal down, how can anyone look at "league strength" as anything other than a manufactured, orchestrated, and rationed commodity in which everyone does not have reasonable and fair access?

that may or may not be true, but league strength is still a real thing. Finishing 4th in the SFL is way better than 2nd in the sjaa.

so when you talk about seedings... based on SOS and records margins of victory... you can't say the SFL teams are seeded too high. (you can argue one or 2 spots.... but there are people here saying the 4th place SFL team shouldn't even be in the playoffs.)

 

[MTsince2004]

that may or may not be true, but league strength is still a real thing. Finishing 4th in the SFL is way better than 2nd in the sjaa.

so when you talk about seedings... based on SOS and records margins of victory... you can't say the SFL teams are seeded too high. (you can argue one or 2 spots.... but there are people here saying the 4th place SFL team shouldn't even be in the playoffs.)

Oh I didn't respond to your post to re-hash the discussion. I was just pointing out that MT wants to be invited to the power-league party so that it can get some of that ratings juice. If anything, it validates your point that it's a real thing. It just shouldn't be an "exclusionary" thing. The SJAA and Metro are weaker SOS leagues. Undeniable fact. So let Edison and MT out if they want.

 

[RidgeRider]

One reason stated was that the SFL teams didn't want an odd number of teams in the league anymore. However, MT to the Delta would make both the Metro and the Delta even numbered again.

That makes sense as well.

 

[pastyfastquick3]

One reason stated was that the SFL teams didn't want an odd number of teams in the league anymore. However, MT to the Delta would make both the Metro and the Delta even numbered again.

You could make it even with an ejection of Folsom, lead by the coaches of OR, DO, and Rocklin a few years back

Easy peasy!

 

[Santa Ball]

Oh I didn't respond to your post to re-hash the discussion. I was just pointing out that MT wants to be invited to the power-league party so that it can get some of that ratings juice. If anything, it validates your point that it's a real thing. It just shouldn't be an "exclusionary" thing. The SJAA and Metro are weaker SOS leagues. Undeniable fact. So let Edison and MT out if they want.

I would love to see MT in the SFL, but I think the ideal situation would be a team that is willing to bring in all sports or what they have on hand. Don't get me wrong, I would b in favor of another team for football only, just pointing out a potential roadblock for the naysayers.

 

[Santa Ball]

You could make it even with an ejection of Folsom, lead by the coaches of OR, DO, and Rocklin a few years back

Easy peasy!

We want Folsom in the SFL, no one is scared of your 7-7 team anymore. Even with your cumulative 17 transfers, 5 net new this year.

 

[MTsince2004]

I would love to see MT in the SFL, but I think the ideal situation would be a team that is willing to bring in all sports or what they have on hand. Don't get me wrong, I would b in favor of another team for football only, just pointing out a potential roadblock for the naysayers.

This would only be for football and for one year. The Section needs to solve the larger issues during realignment for Fall of 2024.

 

[pastyfastquick3]

We want Folsom in the SFL, no one is scared of your 7-7 team anymore. Even with your cumulative 17 transfers, 5 net new this year.

View embedded media

Rocklin has 17 transfers per the CIF site

And now its "17 that transferred at SOME point in the last 4 years!"

Sounds like more excuses for getting whipped every year again.

 

[WWHS44]

Who got whooped last year 40-7....oh yeah FOLSOM!!

 

[pastyfastquick3]

Who got whooped last year 40-7....oh yeah FOLSOM!!

Or the near goose egg in the playoffs?

 

[WWHS44]

Near doesnt count....they gave up 40 to lowly Rocklin....Who has all the second class hwy 80 kids as you profess? What happened at Granite Bay when they got their arse kicked? hwy 80 must have something.....After all isnt that where your coach got FIRED at Whitney??

 

[ThunderRam]

One reason stated was that the SFL teams didn't want an odd number of teams in the league anymore. However, MT to the Delta would make both the Metro and the Delta even numbered again.

Then add 2 teams. The WCAL has 8 teams. Why not the SFL?

Add MT and Jesuit.

Sign me up.

 

[ThunderRam]

MT would be a good addition to the SFL but wonder if it was just that Elk Grove was too far away and that Grant didn't work out as hoped. They might be waiting for another local rivalry program to emerge, but not sure who that would be.

Despite their lower enrollment, I’ve always seen Placer as a good candidate. They have history in the SFL too.

Could Sutter work for football only? I know they’re a smaller enrollment school but their football program is legit.

Beyond that, I can see Twelve Bridges and West Park emerging over the next few years.

 

[MTsince2004]

Then add 2 teams. The WCAL has 8 teams. Why not the SFL?

Add MT and Jesuit.

Sign me up.

Unfortunately, the issue is not whether it is a good idea, or fair, or popular. The issue is that it must be a unanimous vote by the league for the change to occur.

The SFL proposal and vote have already occurred (5-1 against) and are not in discussion at this time.

The proposals for going independent or joining the Delta are in discussion now. Judging by the casual conversations I have had with people at different schools, if anyone wants to vote no, they will have an excuse on hand regardless of whether it is a good idea, fair, or popular. Some people will always see this as voting against their self-interest. The question is whether those people are the actual decision-makers at those schools.

 

[ThunderRam]

Unfortunately, the issue is not whether it is a good idea, or fair, or popular. The issue is that it must be a unanimous vote by the league for the change to occur.

The SFL proposal and vote have already occurred (5-1 against) and are not in discussion at this time.

The proposals for going independent or joining the Delta are in discussion now. Judging by the casual conversations I have had with people at different schools, if anyone wants to vote no, they will have an excuse on hand regardless of whether it is a good idea, fair, or popular. Some people will always see this as voting against their self-interest. The question is whether those people are the actual decision-makers at those schools.

I get all that. I’m just saying it’s a good fit.

As far as the politics go, I got nothing to offer. It is what it is.

That said, I didn’t think division realignment was ever up for a “vote”. I thought the SJS made those determinations based on numerous factors.

Apparently I was mistaken.

 

[pastyfastquick3]

Near doesnt count....they gave up 40 to lowly Rocklin....Who has all the second class hwy 80 kids as you profess? What happened at Granite Bay when they got their arse kicked? hwy 80 must have something.....After all isnt that where your coach got FIRED at Whitney??

A blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while.

Doesn't take away from more than a decade of whippings and Rocklin's 17 transfers this season!

 

[MTsince2004]

I get all that. I’m just saying it’s a good fit.

As far as the politics go, I got nothing to offer. It is what it is.

That said, I didn’t think division realignment was ever up for a “vote”. I thought the SJS made those determinations based on numerous factors.

Apparently I was mistaken.

Oh, I know where you and most common sense fans stand. Sorry if it seemed like I was criticizing. Just clarifying.

The Section has a committee in charge of realignment. There also seems to be some mechanism that allows for proposals with compelling reasons mid-cycle. I don't know the official ins and outs, but I do know that the Section allowed MT to make these proposals after Monterey Trail sought their permission to do so. However, in between realignment, the leagues have a lot of say in the matter. I'm sure there is a whole encyclopedia of bylaws on the matter somewhere that none of us wants to read.

 

[Santa Ball]

I get all that. I’m just saying it’s a good fit.

As far as the politics go, I got nothing to offer. It is what it is.

That said, I didn’t think division realignment was ever up for a “vote”. I thought the SJS made those determinations based on numerous factors.

Apparently I was mistaken.

A poet, a baird, a realist

 

[RidgeRider]

Despite their lower enrollment, I’ve always seen Placer as a good candidate. They have history in the SFL too.

Could Sutter work for football only? I know they’re a smaller enrollment school but their football program is legit.

Beyond that, I can see Twelve Bridges and West Park emerging over the next few years.

I agree Thunder, It would really push Placer competitively and they would have to want to claw their way up the SFL as I think they would find it tough sledding at the beginning. Both Twelve Bridges and West Park would be possibilities as well. Let's hope West Park is more committed than the other high schools in Roseville to building a really competitive football program.

 

[mistark]

It's always intrigued me that Antelope never gets mentioned for the SFL. Football and Basketball makes sense. Baseball is down but was solid for years and they are in Roseville unified school district.

Placer and Sutter while the very best teams can compete in football, the lean years would not be fair (still D4/D5 championship level). I could see a reshuffling of the SFL with all Roseville schools back in, Folsom and Oak Rodge out to a new formed league or some form of the Delta. Imo, West Park, 12 Bridges development will decide how they SFL plays out in the future.

 

[RidgeRider]

It's always intrigued me that Antelope never gets mentioned for the SFL. Football and Basketball makes sense. Baseball is down but was solid for years and they are in Roseville unified school district.

Placer and Sutter while the very best teams can compete in football, the lean years would not be fair (still D4/D5 championship level). I could see a reshuffling of the SFL with all Roseville schools back in, Folsom and Oak Rodge out to a new formed league or some form of the Delta. Imo, West Park, 12 Bridges development will decide how they SFL plays out in the future.

Antelope was in the SFL "juniors" program for a year or so a while back but was not kept in it for various reasons.

I agree, including the Roseville schools in the SFL would add to the rivalry of the communities in south Placer county. Excluding football, the other high schools in Roseville are a good fit. For whatever reason, football doesn't seem important in those communities with the administrations as it does in Granite Bay, Loomis and Rocklin...or at least it seems that way.

 

[MTsince2004]

It's always intrigued me that Antelope never gets mentioned for the SFL. Football and Basketball makes sense. Baseball is down but was solid for years and they are in Roseville unified school district.

Placer and Sutter while the very best teams can compete in football, the lean years would not be fair (still D4/D5 championship level). I could see a reshuffling of the SFL with all Roseville schools back in, Folsom and Oak Rodge out to a new formed league or some form of the Delta. Imo, West Park, 12 Bridges development will decide how they SFL plays out in the future.

If the Section ever did go to an A-B-C-level power league format (football only) with relegation and promotion mid-cycle, your suggestion makes sense. Take a look at the combination of D-1 and D2 (with Grant and Woodcreek thrown in to make it an even 24 teams).

One A-level power league along Interstate-80 could be Del Oro, Rocklin, Granite Bay, Whitney, Grant, and Antelope.

Another A-level power league along Hwy 50 and south could consist of Folsom, Oak Ridge, Jesuit, Sheldon, Elk Grove, and MT.

Having a B-league of Inderkum, Woodcreek, Laguna Creek, Cosumnes Oaks, Franklin, and Pleasant Grove where the top schools cycle up after the bottom team in each A-league relegates after two years could still be balanced along those roadways as much as possible.

The C-level league with McClatchy, Davis, Johnson, Kennedy, River City, and Cordova could promote up to the B-level and have a team drop to them in relegation.

This is just a quick example. Maybe Johnson and Cordova don't belong, or the Section might want to keep it narrow to one division, or expand it to three. The model could work, though.

 

[ThunderRam]

Antelope was in the SFL "juniors" program for a year or so a while back but was not kept in it for various reasons.

I agree, including the Roseville schools in the SFL would add to the rivalry of the communities in south Placer county. Excluding football, the other high schools in Roseville are a good fit. For whatever reason, football doesn't seem important in those communities with the administrations as it does in Granite Bay, Loomis and Rocklin...or at least it seems that way.

Yep.

In football, the SFL became markedly better once Oakmont, Roseville and Woodcreek were relocated elsewhere.

I for one don’t want to see any of them back.

I believe the direction the SJS went in by making it a super league was the right decision — and that should be maintained for the foreseeable future.

There are enough schools in the South Placer area to choose from, including Antelope which is not part of Placer, to create a separate league with local ties and rivalries.

Antelope, Woodcreek, West Park, Roseville, Oakmont, Lincoln, Twelve Bridges and Placer. And possibly Whitney should they eventually not cut it the SFL.

If I was the SJS I’d have a competitive balance, relegation rule in place for the SFL. Every 4 years whichever program is least competitive is moved out and the most competitive from the list above is brought in. Rinse, repeat.

 

[Macallan]

I'd like to see a super league in the southern part of the section as well. It would not be as strong as the SFL, but would be a step in the right direction. IMO, this would have to be football only, and, even if the powers that be could get on board with that, it would still face an uphill battle due to location.

With that said, IMO, such a league would start with St. Mary's, Central Catholic and Manteca. After that...idk, but Edison, Merced, Tracy, Kimball, Downey, Turlock, Oakdale, Lincoln (Stockton) and Lodi could certainly be in the conversation. Who else could be in the conversation? Teams would be facing better competition week in and week out. Additionally, a team that could go undefeated in that league would be in a good position to make a run in playoffs having competed against pretty much every style of offense and defense used in HS football.

 

[MTsince2004]

I'd like to see a super league in the southern part of the section as well. It would not be as strong as the SFL, but would be a step in the right direction. IMO, this would have to be football only, and, even if the powers that be could get on board with that, it would still face an uphill battle due to location.

With that said, IMO, such a league would start with St. Mary's, Central Catholic and Manteca. After that...idk, but Edison, Merced, Tracy, Kimball, Downey, Turlock, Oakdale, Lincoln (Stockton) and Lodi could certainly be in the conversation. Who else could be in the conversation? Teams would be facing better competition week in and week out. Additionally, a team that could go undefeated in that league would be in a good position to make a run in playoffs having competed against pretty much every style of offense and defense used in HS football.

Possible D1-D2 if you did 8 team A-B-C level leagues (sorted by Cal Preps ratings):

A-League South
St. Mary's
Manteca
Central Catholic
Downey
Tracy
Turlock
Lincoln
Vacaville

B-League South
Lodi
Edison
Rodriguez
Toaky
Gregori
Stagg
Enochs
Pitman

C-League South
MacNair
Central Valley
West
Modesto
Grace Davis
Franklin (S)
Chavez
Armijo

 

[Streak One]

Are there issues with having sports specific leagues? Does it create more headaches for schools that are in the SFL for football, CVC for basketball, etc?

 

[WWHS44]

A blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while.

Doesn't take away from more than a decade of whippings and Rocklin's 17 transfers this season!

17 female transfers and not one football player. Unlike Folsom and their out of state transfers...

 

[Santa Ball]

17 female transfers and not one football player. Unlike Folsom and their out of state transfers...

Constant lies from pasty.

 

[MTsince2004]

Are there issues with having sports specific leagues? Does it create more headaches for schools that are in the SFL for football, CVC for basketball, etc?

I'm sure it would.

However, if it is looked at as ONE big league with three sub-divisions, it might not seem so bad. There are other ways to do it if it seems too large to handle.

All of this is Football-only in my mind. Kind of in line with what @BlackHatFootbal is always espousing on Twitter.

 

[BigMann08]

I’d like to see a league with Jesuit, St. Mary’s, Central Catholic, Capital Christian, and Christian Brothers….