NCS OPEN

[northbaybbguru]

Well I nailed my seeding prediction (from the other thread).

NCS OPEN seedings:

1.SJND.....1st rd bye
2.Salesian....1st rd bye
3. CN..... at home vs Heritage
4. MM... at home vs BOD
5. BOD....at MM
6. Heritage .... at CN


I got MM at CN for the final.


I think the week and a half off for the top 2 seeds does them no favors. Especially when a loss doesnt end your season. I'd rather be playing at home 1st round. Definite advantage for CN and MM in my opinion.

 

[1tunz1]

Good seeding prediction! It’s a great open bracket, and will be interesting to see these matchups. Nobody can afford an off night. Going with CN to take home the trophy.

 

[mkbgdns]

NCS website lists MM/BOD at Laney College in Oakland.

 

[observer22]

NCS website lists MM/BOD at Laney College in Oakland.

Yes, it’s a doubleheader with the boys’ game.

 

[Streak One]

Did O'Dowd get the home game because Miramonte doesn't get the league champ designation?

I'll go Salesian over Miramonte in the finals

 

[Norcal_Fan]

Did O'Dowd get the home game because Miramonte doesn't get the league champ designation?

I'll go Salesian over Miramonte in the finals

That is the biggest BS I swear. Both teams earned the right to be in the open division...league champions should have NO bearing on hosting games at that point/level. But in the big picture, NCS makes MORE money hosting a double header with BOD. The ONLY sliver lining is it's not held in that barn they call a gym.

 

[ClayK]

In an Open division, the biggest advantage to seeding is a home game. Presumably NCS will tweak the Open next year, and there are two changes that need to be made:

1) Two-game minimum. Right now, SJND and Salesian won't play until Feb. 26, and the first round losers on Feb. 20 won't play again until March 3. Plus NCS makes money on each game and also will then have a clear ordered list to send to NorCals.

2) Remove the league champion advantage. Yes, Miramonte is unlikely to be Open again, but consider this: O'Dowd and SJND are in the same league, and the league tiebreaker is , as the EBAL does, which team wins the second game. That's a random scheduling thing.

So O'Dowd is 22-4 and splits with SJND in league. SJND is 18-8, but wins the home game. Both go Open, O'Dowd is seeded third, SJND sixth. O'Dowd at SJND.

 

[northbaybbguru]

I agree there needs to be a 2 game minimum. Losing in the 1st round and waiting 2 weeks for your next game is not good. Plus it makes no sense for your best teams to play less games.

 

[Streak One]

The pod system the Southern Section uses seems like it alleviates some of these issues.

 

[northbaybbguru]

If $ is a consideration (and it always is) then playing less games with your best teams makes no sense especially when the NCS OPEN is the only games being played that night of the NCS playoff schedule.

 

[ClayK]

The problem with the pool-play pods in the Southern Section is that you need eight teams to make it work -- otherwise your Open champ could be decided on a tiebreaker, which doesn't seem right.

And NCS has only 25 NorCal bids, so an eight-team Open would take away too many bids from lower divisions and thus would be unlikely to get approved.

 

[colhenrylives]

The problem with the pool-play pods in the Southern Section is that you need eight teams to make it work -- otherwise your Open champ could be decided on a tiebreaker, which doesn't seem right.

And NCS has only 25 NorCal bids, so an eight-team Open would take away too many bids from lower divisions and thus would be unlikely to get approved.

So, then, how does CCS pull off an 8-team Open with fewer schools than NCS?

 

[northbaybbguru]

So, then, how does CCS pull off an 8-team Open with fewer schools than NCS?

I would agree with colhenry...why cant the NCS do an 8 team open? Do I assume correct they are taking 4 teams from D4, D5 and D6 for Norcals? Why cant they pull 2 spots from there?


If my numbers are correct....

6 open
2 D1
2 D2
2 D3
4 D4
4 D5
4 D6
1 highest seed at large

25 spots....

Seems to me the lower brackets can give up 2 spots pretty easily...

 

[colhenrylives]

The CCS playoff setup actually gives the publics a better shot at winning those five lower section titles by forcing as many private/parochials from the WCAL and WBAL as possible into the Open Division. Let's call it what it is: A designated hoops quarantine. In a good year, all eight CCS Open units would be non-public.

 

[ClayK]

I would agree with colhenry...why cant the NCS do an 8 team open? Do I assume correct they are taking 4 teams from D4, D5 and D6 for Norcals? Why cant they pull 2 spots from there?


If my numbers are correct....

6 open
2 D1
2 D2
2 D3
4 D4
4 D5
4 D6
1 highest seed at large

25 spots....

Seems to me the lower brackets can give up 2 spots pretty easily...

Sure ... they'll be glad to vote to cut themselves out of NorCals -- and remember, it's a vote and every school has one. There are many more small schools than big ones in NCS, and the reason it took two years to pass the Open is that the first proposal had an eight-team Open but it was voted down by the small schools, which would have lost NorCal berths.

The six-team Open proposal that passed mollified the small schools -- if it hadn't, it wouldn't have passed.

(I do have to add that to assume smaller schools don't care about going to NorCals is a typical assumption that only the big schools, the competitive schools, really matter -- and it's neither true nor fair. Why should a NorCal experience be more valuable to a girl going to Bishop O'Dowd than to a girl going to Sonoma Academy?)

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

The CCS playoff setup actually gives the publics a better shot at winning those five lower section titles by forcing as many private/parochials from the WCAL and WBAL as possible into the Open Division. Let's call it what it is: A designated hoops quarantine. In a good year, all eight CCS Open units would be non-public.

It's a win-win. The CCS Open has given the publics a better chance to win some section playoff games. And instead of the privates getting several byes and/or blowout games as preparation for NorCals, they now get three (or two) competitive games instead.

 

[straightline50]

Sure ... they'll be glad to vote to cut themselves out of NorCals -- and remember, it's a vote and every school has one. There are many more small schools than big ones in NCS, and the reason it took two years to pass the Open is that the first proposal had an eight-team Open but it was voted down by the small schools, which would have lost NorCal berths.

The six-team Open proposal that passed mollified the small schools -- if it hadn't, it wouldn't have passed.

(I do have to add that to assume smaller schools don't care about going to NorCals is a typical assumption that only the big schools, the competitive schools, really matter -- and it's neither true nor fair. Why should a NorCal experience be more valuable to a girl going to Bishop O'Dowd than to a girl going to Sonoma Academy?)

So why should a girl going to Sonoma County have more of an opportunity to qualify for Nor Cal than a girl going to Casa Grande?

 

[basketba11]

Why not do a Pod system with 6 teams? 3 on each side, each team would get 2 games guarantee.

 

[ClayK]

So why should a girl going to Sonoma County have more of an opportunity to qualify for Nor Cal than a girl going to Casa Grande?

She shouldn't, really, but the reality is that the system isn't going to be perfectly balanced. For example, there are many more D5 schools than D3 schools, so the chances for a D5 team to be one of the top four are necessarily less.

The ideal NCS system would be to have an eight-team Open, and the top four from each of the six divisions move on to NorCals -- but that would be 32 NorCal berths, and NCS only has 25. NCS also has a competitive-equity adjustment that moves schools into higher divisions if they are consistently successful, which means that the higher divisions get more and more competitive, thus penalizing the schools who are in the higher division only by enrollment.

The Open relieves some of that pressure, but at a cost to some schools. Still, Divisions I-III have 12 automatic berths to NorCals, and Divisions IV-VI have 12 automatic berths. The one at-large should, to me, go to Division II or III but instead it's going to the highest seed that is upset in the playoffs.

 

[observer22]

BOD beat Miramonte 57-50.

CN beat Heritage 54-31.

 

[DonniePeckerwood]

Is it true the MM bus broke down on the way to the game, completing the tank!? Asking for a friend!

- donnie no open no open no open

 

[ClayK]

Though good for hot takes, the whole tanking discussion -- involving all teams -- is usually initiated and continued by people who never saw the game in question.

Ask anyone at our game, or any other game where tanking is mentioned, if the girls and coaches were trying to lose. It's a little insulting to the effort put forth by the players and coaches to be accused of trying to lose when the bruises are real and the will to win is evident from the opening tipoff.

Yes, it opens up the opportunity to be clever, and that's worth something, I guess. But still ...

 

[Norcal_Fan]

So an even bigger question...does Salesian, Cardinal Newman, BOD and SJND go open? Does the winner of D1 have an upper hand on the semifinal open contestants?

 

[OnBall8]

Does the winner of D1 have an upper hand on the semifinal open contestants?

Unless they win in incredibly impressive fashion I don't think you can skip over open teams let alone open teams that won a game. Who did you have in mind?

 

[mkbgdns]

posters into "tanking" are just trying to bring high school sports down to their level

 

[northbaybbguru]

Unless there was a serious question/doubt on who should be in the OPEN and the top seed in D1 was legitimately a possibility for the Open I dont think you can put the D1 winner ahead of the Open 1st round losers. In this case if American or SRV or Cal happens to win the D1 there is NO WAY they should be put ahead of Heritage or MM. I think the OPEN 6 was pretty set with only the seeding being in question. I guess you may be able to argue (to some point) Heritage or American...but at least to my eyes I never saw the argument, I thought Heritage was a notch above and the clear 6.

 

[basketba11]

So an even bigger question...does Salesian, Cardinal Newman, BOD and SJND go open? Does the winner of D1 have an upper hand on the semifinal open contestants?

These 4 teams Salesian, Cardinal Newman, BOD and SJND have been the best in NorCal all year long, of course they belong in the Open for NorCal! Add Mitty and St Mary's and there you go! D1 Field will be absolutely loaded this year-MM, Heritage, American, Cal, SRV, Antelope, McClatchy, Pinewood, Menlo!!!

 

[GBBall4L]

These 4 teams Salesian, Cardinal Newman, BOD and SJND have been the best in NorCal all year long, of course they belong in the Open for NorCal! Add Mitty and St Mary's and there you go! D1 Field will be absolutely loaded this year-MM, Heritage, American, Cal, SRV, Antelope, McClatchy, Pinewood, Menlo!!!

I still think Pinewood makes the Norcal Open division if they make it to the CCS Open championship even if they lose that game. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[basketba11]

I still think Pinewood makes the Norcal Open division if they make it to the CCS Open championship even if they lose that game. Maybe I'm wrong.

So which NCS team then goes to D1? Obviously depending on how semi-final games go. Any predictions on NCS Semis? SNJD vs BOD and CN vs Salesian. Wow, 2 great games next week.

 

[GBBall4L]

So which NCS team then goes to D1? Obviously depending on how semi-final games go. Any predictions on NCS Semis? SNJD vs BOD and CN vs Salesian. Wow, 2 great games next week.

Hmmm good point because the 4 NCS schools have the stronger schedule than Pinewood along with Mitty and SMS. If we are only putting 6 in Norcal Open then maybe Pinewood does get left out if they don't win CCS unless there is a blowout in the NCS semifinals maybe. But maybe Cardinal Newman schedule is debatable of whether it is stronger than Pinewoods.

 

[northbaybbguru]

The computer sure loves Pinewood. How do u keep them out if they make the finals? Throw in Antelope (if they win SJS D2) with their 3 D1 guards and we have our 8.

 

[keepitreal.32]

MM beat Pinewood but Pinewood gets into the Open and not MM? Unless Pinewood beats Mitty it should not happen. I think that’s where SJS sends more than just SMS.

 

[basketba11]

I agree, Pinewood losses to MM and Salesian might be enough to keep them out of Open. From previous posts, it sounds like only 6 most likely will be in the NorCal Open. But I guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[observer22]

MM beat Pinewood but Pinewood gets into the Open and not MM? Unless Pinewood beats Mitty it should not happen. I think that’s where SJS sends more than just SMS.

MM didn’t even make the semi’s of the NCS Open. No way they’ll make the NorCal Open. Pinewood is in a completely different situation. If they make the CCS finals, they’d have a good shot. The committee isn’t even going to consider MM in filling that bracket. The Pinewood loss to MM just goes down as a loss to a good team, but plenty of Open candidates have those.

 

[SouthBayHoopFan]

MM beat Pinewood but Pinewood gets into the Open and not MM? Unless Pinewood beats Mitty it should not happen. I think that’s where SJS sends more than just SMS.

And Miramonte beat O'Dowd, so they can't be in the Open either?

 

[keepitreal.32]

Not saying that at all. But I guess I’m saying that this year Pinewood may be missing the open. I’m saying that SJS has some good teams this year. Antelope is for real. Why can’t they be rewarded with making the open? Yes I consider making the open an honor. If the OPEN was the only choice for NorCal would we be saying MM is out and Pinewood is in if they just make CCS open final? Doubt it.

 

[observer22]

If the OPEN was the only choice for NorCal would we be saying MM is out and Pinewood is in if they just make CCS open final? Doubt it.

No, I think that’s exactly right. MM needed to win last night to have a chance at the NorCal Open. About the only team who could lose early and still possibly get a bid would be Mitty. I could see dipping down to give a very good semi finalist a spot, but not a quarterfinal loser. Pinewood is still in the hunt. Time will tell.

 

[straightline50]

CCS final two, SJS D1 winner, SJS D2 winner if #1 seed and either two, three or four from NCS. NCS is the deeper section and will be rewarded.

 

[GBBall4L]

CCS final two, SJS D1 winner, SJS D2 winner if #1 seed and either two, three or four from NCS. NCS is the deeper section and will be rewarded.

NCS is definitely the deeper section this year for NorCal. I don't think the SJS D2 should be in Open. Antelope lost to Oakland Tech who Pinewood beat by 32 and Laguna Creek lost to Mitty by 54. Del Oro is not an Norcal Open caliber team. Their good but not Open. 3 teams will come from NCS because only one will come from SJS and we know who that is. 2 will come from CCS unless one of the CCS powers loses.

 

[northbaybbguru]

All I know is that if the CIF is going to take 3 or 4 teams out of the NCS then the team that wins the (best section) NCS OPEN championship should get the #2 seed in the Norcal Open. Sorry SMS but your section sucks and you dont deserve the 2 as a weak D1 section winner. The NCS Open winner has to beat big time programs to win the NCS OPEN and should be rewarded for it. So dont like it ST Marys and SJS? Then step up and do an OPEN section in the future.