Preseason thoughts?

[ClayK]

So who are the top 20 teams in Northern California and why?

If we all contribute a school or four, we should be able to come up with a pretty interesting list.

The usual suspects are easy to pick out, and ordering them will be a challenge, but who are the sleeper teams in your area, if any?

For example, in the East Bay, Berkeley should be better with all those young players a year more experienced and Piedmont may have those transfers eligible, though one is supposedly hurt. On my side of the tunnel, though, it's hard to think of anyone after Miramonte, though Carondelet will still have some firepower. Hard to say, though, but maybe someone has some other insights.

Practice starts in two weeks ... though of course Mater Dei began practice in mid-August. A little advantage for Southern Section teams.

 

[winetot]

I am going to try. Obviously there are a lot of variables and this is my "pre-season" view. Feel free to shoot holes in it. I am keeping the usual suspects in my list.

1. St. Mary's Stockton
2. Pinewood
3. St. Ignatius
4. Bishop O'Dowd
5. Vanden
6. Miramonte
7. McClatchy
8. Brookside Christian
9. Sac High
10. Sacred Heart Cathedral
11. Eastside College Prep
12. Carondelet
13. Nevada Union
14. Cardinal Newman
15. Berkeley
16. Bradshaw Christian
17. Lincoln - Stockton
18. Piedmont
19. Manteca
20. Archbishop Mitty

Others considered: Salesian, St. Mary's Berkeley, Pleasant Grove

This post was edited on 10/28 2:30 PM by winetot

 

[Trivalley]

Surprised Dublin didn't get a honorable mention. They are senior heavy and return their starting five including the 6'1, CA Ballaz center Carrington and D1 Soccer commit Moses. Moses, a elite soccer player, will definitely have an edge on ANYONE in fitness and speed...but lacks a jumper and overall basketball training. Also two of their other starters play for the CAL Stars and another is close to 6 ft and has 4 years varsity experience. They also have two senior guards in Peay and Warlich that should be able to hold the level of play. After that it's the 3-4 AAU freshman I have mentioned previously who could be contributors if they can handle the physicality of the high school game.

I see them finishing second behind Miramonte but easily thumping the rest of the field. It will be interesting to see the superior basketball player in Ionescu vs. the superior athlete in Moses in the DFAL.

 

[kookiebean]

In no particular order (just copied and pasted), then made some edits.

1. Pinewood (I like this team, great guard play and shooters)
2. St. Mary's Stockton (Loaded)
3. St. Ignatius (Loaded)
4. Bishop O'Dowd (loaded)
5. Vanden (loaded)
6. St. Ignatius (loaded)
7. Miramonte (tradition) heard there may be some changes to the team?
8. Piedmont (loaded and hungry)
9. McClatchy (loaded)
9. Brookside Christian (Loaded)
10. Sac High (Loaded)
11. Sacred Heart Cathedral (Loaded)
12. Salesian (2 really good guards, try to the bring ball up the court vs those 2)
13. Eastside College Prep (always there)
14. Carondelet (tradition)
15. Enterprise (Hard to beat)
16. Cardinal Newman (Big team)
17. St Mary's Berkeley (tradition)
18. Arch Bishop Mitty (tradition, Anderson and Holland)
19. Florin (Big Team always standing in the end)
20. Antelope (Watch this team)

Others considered: Modesto Christian (tradition and State Champs), Pleasant Grove (Will someone please give Kim a scholarship), Berkeley (Welch is a favorite of mine), Oakridge (tradition), West Campus (Very nice team), Bradshaw Christian (Still a young team), Nevada Union (tradition), Lincoln of Stockton (I like Chris Roemer,and he has a good team)

This post was edited on 10/28 3:04 PM by kookiebean

This post was edited on 10/28 3:05 PM by kookiebean

 

[winetot]

Kookiebean -

I totally forgot Enrerprise, great catch. Antelope is young, not sure top 20. You are sandbagging your Bradshaw Christian team, who has 2 D1 players. The only reason I left off Modesto Christian is because they were left out of top bracket of WCJ so I figured Clay knows something we do not!

TriValley - I am not sold on Milan against top level teams in basketball. There is no doubt she is a top level athlete, I have watched her play basketball since she was in 5th grade. Honorable mention is for sure deserved, oversight.

This post was edited on 10/28 7:03 PM by winetot

 

[Nor Cal Scout]

1. SMS
2. SI
3. BOD
4. Vanden
5. Pinewood
6. Sac High
7. Carondelet
8. McClatchy
9. SM Berkeley
10. Berkeley
11. Salesian
12. Miramonte
13. Sacred Heart
14. Brook side
15. Modesto Christian
16. Piedmont
17. Mitty
18. Bradshaw Christian
19. Dublin
20. East side prep / Cardinal Newman

 

[kookiebean]

Winetot

Bradshaw can be good with it's 2 DI players, but with only 7 healthy players last year it wasn't easy and actually lost 3 players this year that weren't seniors (2 were starters). With 4 incoming freshman it's a young team. Top 20 I don't think so.

 

[northbaybbguru]

SCOUT....

I have a question....

I see you have SMB as your top ranked D4 team in northern calif....

In your preseason standings SMB is ranked ahead of Salesian, Brookside Ch., Piedmont , Bradshaw Ch. and Cardinal Newman...

I know they graduated the 2 McDonalds All Americans....who do they have coming back?

I know Brookside has 3 studs returning, Piedmont has all their transfers eligible, Bradshaw has 2 d1 studs and Newman has their top 7 returning.

I know you watch a lot of games and honestly I have no idea (other than the 1 time I watched SMB play LAST yr) what SMB has
for THIS year....

how about a breakdown/SCOUTing report on SMB???? why the love?

thanks ...

 

[ClayK]

Some thoughts, though not necessarily worth that much:

*Enterprise took some serious hits in graduation

*Modesto Christian lost a key transfer, plus her incoming freshman sister (they're at Golden Valley in Merced)

*It's a transition year for several schools, I think, especially smaller ones. You can ride a couple very good or great players a long way, but replacing them is more difficult than it appears. For example, Carondelet is without a Power 5 player for the first time in at least a decade, maybe more, and though that's not a small school, that's hard to replace. Salesian and SMB both have to replace elite talent, just as Piedmont did when the Paris twins left.

*O'Dowd is a question mark because of Thomas' status. When and if she plays will determine a lot about the Dragons ...

*I'm very curious about Cardinal Newman, Dublin and some other teams that seem poised to make a move.

*McClatchy could be very good, I think ...

 

[Nor Cal Scout]

North bay - not sure how good they will be and yes they did lose a lot as did Salesian. SMB returns Mosley, a Cal Commit, a solid PG and Chinn coming back from injury. They also return a host upper class role players that will get their opportunity. They have at least five kids that will play college basketball at varying levels. I would take that any year. Cardinal Newman I have listed in the top 20 and they could rise quickly but there is a lot of talent, good coaching and tradition above them.

Salesian will also be better than Piedmont due to the injury to Dennis. That injury coupled with graduation will impact my highlanders more than you know. However, coach Gardere is a master a patching teams together and making post season runs. I look for the same this year, especially if Dennis comes back.

Stockton, Si, Vanden and pinewood are the four favorites. Sleeper pick? Sac High and Mitty!

 

[northbaybbguru]

I agree...SMS and SI early favorites....I have never seen Vanden play but everything I hear about them says they are VERY good.
And the people saying how good they are, are people I respect RE: their knowledge of Girls BB...so I would definitely agree with you ..... Vanden deserves to be a preseason top 5.

and I LOVE Pinewood!!! VERY fun to watch!!! Got to love the ball movement!! Their guards are easy to like !!

I think for the 1st time in a long time D4 is definitely wide open...with NO teams being pulled up to the open......

 

[kookiebean]

Now that the season has started.

I still like my picks.
Brookside Christian not on NorCal preps top 20 that's crazy !

1. St. Mary's Stockton (Loaded)
2. Pinewood (I like this team, great guard play and shooters)
3. Salesian (2 really good guards, try to the bring ball up the court vs those 2)
4. Miramonte (tradition)
5. St. Ignatius (Loaded)
6. Eastside College Prep (always there)
7. Bishop O'Dowd (loaded) Will be there in the end
8. Vanden (loaded)
9. St Mary's Berkeley (Good team)
10. Berkeley (Welch is a favorite of mine)
11. Sac High (Loaded) Wait until Jan
12. Piedmont (loaded and hungry)
13. McClatchy (loaded)
14. Brookside Christian (Loaded)
15. Sacred Heart Cathedral (Loaded)
16. Modesto Christian (Yes'm, still good)
17. Carondelet (tradition)
18. Cardinal Newman (Big team)
19. Del Oro (Very Good)
20. Dublin / Oakridge (tradition) In a Tie


Others considered: Antelope (Watch this team), Presentation, Arch Bishop Mitty (tradition, Anderson and Holland), Florin (Big Team always standing in the end, Pleasant Grove (Will someone please give Kim a scholarship), West Campus (Very nice team), Bradshaw Christian (Still a young team), Nevada Union (tradition), Enterprise (Hard to beat), Lincoln of Stockton (I like Chris Roemer, and he has a good team)









This post was edited on 12/17 11:11 AM by kookiebean

This post was edited on 12/17 11:16 AM by kookiebean

 

[Streak One]

Based on early season results, it isn't crazy that Brookside isn't in the Top 20. They lost to Sacred Heart Cathedral, which has taken some early losses. Yes, Brookside is Top 20 good and will probably find their way back in soon. However, you have to look at the actual results

 

[ColdWorld]

Tri Valley - or should I say Dublin Valley.

Have you seen Dublin play live this year? Dublin is 7 deep at best! I seen them play against Clayton Valley and the top 6 did a great job, but the back half of the bench is SUSPECT! And Warlich didn't play at all. So, it would be great if you could give names the 3-4 AAU Freshman because they are either on JV or not contributing. Dublin will definitely have a great season, but their lack of depth will be an issue all season especially with the new hand checking rules in play.

Tri Valley - can you name the 3-4 AAU Freshman? Right now Dublin's roster only list 2 Freshman of which one looks likes a player #43.

 

[kookiebean]

In Brookside's only loss. One of its best players was knocked out of game (needing stiches). I thought they were up about 10 points at the time. That type of injury usually has an effect on the entire team.
This post was edited on 12/18 12:07 PM by kookiebean

 

[northbaybbguru]

I was at the Brookside Christian vs SHC game. And the player knocked out was their guard going to U of Wash (McDonald).

So not just anybody was lost....probably BC's best player.

I honestly cant recall what the score was at the time. But it was close. And clearly
losing a player of McDonald's stature definitely had an effect on the outcome.


I agree with Kookie...BC should be in the Top 20.

Myself? I would substitute BC for Monte Vista in the standings.


This post was edited on 12/17 4:34 PM by northbaybbguru

 

[coach_augie]

I haven't seen a lot of the teams mentioned play, but I did see Oak Ridge play in our tourney and they are very good. They have good size, very fundamental, and don't rattle too easily. They are 6-1 and beat Deer Valley by 12; DV only lost to Berkeley by 3. I'm not sure where they would fall but by the end of the year, you'll see them doing very well come playoff time.

The other team that should be ranked higher is McClatchy. They press the heck out of the ball and I know last year had 2 very solid 6'0+post players. They also only lost to Salesian by 1 on a Neutral court.

 

[Trivalley]

Freshman - Finau and Molinar.

Finau plays AAU, she's the point guard. Good player but is shooting a low percentage right now and taking a lot of shots! Molinar is a forward and sees little time and used to spell the bigs. Not sure what happened to Warlich. If it's a bad injury I don't see her contributing much as the season is really short and it takes time to heal and regain your form.

Two AAU freshman are on JV (Burke and Eguchi).

 

[jazzpt55]

I keep saying it that BC vs Salesman
Game at the WCJ shold be a great
Game. I can't believe it is in the
First round. I think if Clay could
Do that bracket over he would have them
Meeting in the bracket final.

 

[Streak One]

BC wasn't up 10 when McDonald went out. It was a back and forth game throughout. You can't discount results on stuff like this. Like I said, this stuff ends up working itself out.

 

[ballersdreams]

NCP is this a real ranking or this the how I can make a team better by making excuses for them. Writers have to be none biased and no of that is happening. People right on the form are biased sometimes. Can everybody tell why MM #3 and haven't play and one yet and has a weaker schedule then most. BOD more lost then wins and today lost again but they are rank #16. SMB lost against MM that still haven't played anyone yet And they are ranked # 5. Carondelet hasn't played anyone that in made the playoffs yet but they are #9 on the so call Ranking. I can go on but at this time most of these teams I just mention are in the rebuilding with 1 star on each. At the end of the year these teams may not make the NORCAL Playoffs for State. I think Kookiebean and Northbay are right about a lot of things. I guess if you are the writers best friend your team will always be at the top no matter what because its Tradition to be on the ranking. I think the are a lot of up coming teams that will be in the top real 20 ranking if these writes that write for both Norcalprep and maxprep write the true not state what once was good not good this year. Its hard to read the reason why teams are at the top and others are not. But at the end of year let see where team are at.

 

[norcalprepfan]

Baller,

All you do is whine and gripe on this message board. Try putting out your own rankings instead of being biased and ripping other people. Your posts are so incoherent and all over the place. If you are so knowledgable then share some good knowledge instead of always attacking everyone. The rankings that NCP posts are their rankings and things need to get sorted out and, but to constantly going after people try being a bit more positive and post something in that manner.

If you cannot at least do that then maybe your ultimate goal is to stir up the pot and if that's the case then you should keep doing what you are doing.

 

[ClayK]

For most of us who do rankings, I think the goal is to have it right at the end ... at this point in the season, with so much graduation affecting so many teams, it's really just guesswork. With all the one-day events and touraments, I think we'll see some sorting out, but I also think, this year, we'll see a lot of A beating B who beat C who beat A.

That said, we're going to know a lot come come Jan. 3 than we do now ...

 

[ballersdreams]

All I'm asking is when writers going to ranking do a little reach the facts and not go on assumption. Some school have been blessed when talent for years. Let see who can coach up a team with less talent. Last years class of talent was very good talent and some teams reload and some didn't. Some public school are starting to real good coaches this will change the game in many areas around the NORCAL. Its about time on the girls side. Once again please state fact not assumptions. I have some very reliable sources that's why I'm so hard at times. Been around the game for some time. Some new teams will emerge from the pack.

 

[Norcal_Fan]

People who say that they have reliable sources usually don't. People that say they've been around the game and make comments like the ones you do, usually have not been around the game. Norcalprepsfan, I really think does the incoherent posts on purpose to stir the pot.

Rankings are what they are...a best guess, especially in high school. People who rank, probably start with returners followed by last season's finish. It seems logical and of course, there is always some bias when the rankings first come out. I need to get out and watch some games...especially with all the parity that seems to be happening. WCJ should be a good start!

 

[ClayK]

It's very difficult to ascertain facts before games have been played ... so there's really not much else to rely on.

You can look at a team that graduated a lot of players and say they will be much worse, but maybe the girls who were sitting on the bench won't be that much of a dropoff -- or maybe they will.

And team chemistry is important and that shifts every year. Sometimes seniors who don't play much are crucial to team chemistry, and it may not seem important when they graduate, or when they return, but that can have a major impact.

Then there are injuries, which are generally not reported, and transfers, who might become eligible in January and then change everything (Sacramento, for example, has two).

So sure, facts are better than assumptions, but right now facts are hard to come by.

 

[Irish_Cheers]

Looks like SHC is in the "one player away" mode. They keep playing teams close but can't pull out a win.

 

[Trivalley]

Dublin is quietly 12-1 and could be 16-1 when they meet Miramonte in Orinda.

Common opponent, Clayton Valley.

Dublin won by 2 @ Clayton
Miramonte won by 29 at home


Early line is Miramonte by 22 over Dublin, but I expect a tough game early going. Maybe a 10 point margin at half.


This post was edited on 1/3 12:15 AM by Trivalley

 

[Paytc]

1.St. Mary's Stockton
2.Miramonte
3.Pinewood
4.St. Ignatius
5.Brookside Christian
6.Salesian
7.Carondelet
8.Sacred Heart
9.St. Mary's (Albany)
10.Eastside Prep
11.Arch Bishop Mitty
12.Lincoln Stockton
13.Vanden
14.Bishop Odowd (Top 5 with Thomas)
15.Dublin
16.Weston Ranch
17.Berkeley
18.McClatchy
19.Cardinal Newman
20.Sacremento
21.Oak ridge
22.Del Oro
23.Modesto Christian
24.Enterprise
25.Piedmont

others considered:Bradshaw Christian,Liberty,Mission SJ,Encinal,Valley Christian,Pleasant Grove, Antelope
On the move:Acalanes,Campolindo,Kennedy,Clayton Valley,,Pleasant Valley,Oakland Tech,Alhambra
Pick my new book "Win Anyway" up to give your favorite player or team the edge(remember any good team can upset another good team)

This post was edited on 1/5 8:34 AM by Paytc

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[Paytc]

My ranking will have movement as I get updates on scores,health,and eligibility.
This post was edited on 1/5 3:01 PM by Paytc

 

[northbaybbguru]

Paytc...


Cardinal Newman beat Bradshaw Christian by 29 last night...

and earlier this year....

Mitty beat Salesian...

Berkeley beat Sac.

Pinewood beat Sacred Heart

Scotts valley beat Piedmont AND Sacred Heart...

no mention for Scotts valley??...not even in others considered?

Does head to head matter anymore?

You may want to rethink your rankings...



This post was edited on 1/3 1:09 PM by northbaybbguru

 

[Paytc]

I'm just getting my feet wet.(2nd post) However I will say just because you beat a team early in the season does not make it certain you will at seasons end. It takes time to gel. Remember from last year and years past many things can come into play to change things. Also my disclaimer is "any good team can upset another good team.

Thanks for the heads up on Scotts Valley

 

[Paytc]

I was only able to stay and watch the first half of the Pinewood vs Miramonte game. I had Miramonte as 15 point favorites so I'm not surprised on the final outcome. I will say Pinewood is a better team than I thought they were. I am tempted to move Pinewood up higher in my rankings even after the 13 point loss. Tonight Pinewood played like they belonged in the top 5.The game was closer than the score indicated. The next few weeks should present a few fun games to watch.

I think it is still safe to say any good team can upset another good team.

 

[NinoBrown]

Do you guys/gals even watch the games/teams? Or just go on hearsay and guessing? Sometimes I really can't tell. Your "opinions" have no base nor do they make much sense to me, but heres my top 20

1. SMS
2. SI
3. Miramonte
4. Carondelet
5. Pinewood
6. SMB
7. Mitty
8. Brookside Christian
9. Salesian
10. Vanden
11. Sacred Heart Catherdal
12. Eastside Prep
13. Lincoln
14. Berkeley
15. BOD
16. McClatchy
17. Antelope
18. Modesto Christian
19. Sacramento
20. Del Oro

 

[Paytc]

That looks pretty good. I'll be the first to admit I am not an expert in high school girls basketball. I am also just getting my feet wet. But that said, I think I can recognize coaching, player, and team talent. I can also recognize when a coach is helping or hurting their teams odds of success. I took a shot at putting together a ranking based on my limited knowledge. I had to take educated guesses on a few teams that I have never seen play. As I stick around the girls game for the next few years I will begin to make more sense out of things. It should be a fun ride.

 

[jazzpt55]

What do you guys think about the MM vs MD game in a couple of weeks
and the Sierra Canyon vs SMS game in a couple of weeks

 

[Ol' Brick Layer]

Sierra Canyon is the best team I have seen play this season (I have not seen SMS play). Amazing point guard, over 6' with very good ball handling skills. Also, several other skilled players. This should a great game.

After seeing MM last night, and watching Iounescu single handily take over the game, MM will need to add dimension to their game to compete against MD. I hope Howard continues to get better. She can be a force

Iounescu's performance last night during the fourth quarter was about as good as it gets. It reminded me of what she did to Carondelet in the Open last year. Clutch!

 

[jazzpt55]

Next Saturday Sierra Canyon gets Chaminade if SC wins
those two games MM vs MD and SC vs SMS might be
four of the best teams in the state...

 

[Paytc]

I agree with most of what you said. Last year Sabrina and her supporting cast may have been better than what they have this year. Especially because it is early in the season. They had the benefit of a full season to gel and C-let did just that, they let the game get away from them by keeping Cast on the bench too long in my opinion.At the start of the 3rd quarter C-let had just mounted the lead to 7 points and was slowly gaining momentum when Cast was hastily pulled out of the game after picking up a quick third foul. Cast finished the game with just that 3 fouls. She was lost on the bench too long in my opinion.


And with all the respect in the world to C-let's seniors and coaching last year MD has Katie Lou Samuelson.
I think Andee Velasco is key. While I respect Sabrina's game it will be a greater challenge to slow down and match up with MD. And I believe MD will find ways to limit and slow down Sabrina. I'm not so sure Sopak has the plan and/or personnel to contain Katie Lou. I have the line set at -18 for MD. I don't think the #1 ranking in the nation is totally mistaken.

But we will see? That's why they play the game. It has to be won on the court not on paper or public opinions.

I guess my statement about any good team can upset or beat another good team remains real. And putting Sacred Heart high in my ranking looks valid as they gave the best team in Northern Cal (SMS) a scare in the 74 to 68 final score.

 

[Paytc]

Yeah, I saw Canyon and they do have a few serious weapons. It is not a stretch to say those four could be the top four in the state. But I think southern Cal has a few more quality teams than we have here in Northern Cal. I think it's more likely that they have 3 of the top 4 teams in the state with SMS being Northern Cal's best representative.

However any good team can upset or knock off another good team.